Sump Pump

[BluScrnOdeth]

I'm wanting to make a refuge for my 240-250 gallon tank and wanted to know what size sump i should use to create moderate flow (as close to natural as i can) through the tank that costs no more than $100. Amazon has some pretty nice high flow (1800gph) sumps but i'm also worried about noise. It will be enclosed in a cabinet but i'd still rather not hear it any more than i do my skimmer.

Any recommendations on flow and pump manufacturer?

[uncleof6]

moderate flow? natural levels? contradiction in terms there ;) 2400 - 2500 gph would be higher, than low flow, but not near high flow. With "reef tank" flow rates totaling 40x - 60x system volume, and up to 100x, 10x is definately LOW flow, but can be considered moderate, with the remainder up to power heads. It is still not close to "natural" however.

Your gunna be hard pressed to find a QUALITY, reliable pump, even in the 1800 gph range, at running head pressure, for under $100. An external pump. (of course you could always spring for a red dragon submersible.) with that size tank, would work best. You are looking at a Reeflo Dart, excellent pump, and quiet. It is more than a hundred bucks. They have a four pole motor, and run at half the rpm of smaller external pumps, and that quiets them down considerably. I have to stick my head in the cabinet to make sure it is running.

Mass produced sumps, look nice for sure, but most of the time leave a bit to be desired function wise. In terms of noise, you will want to run a siphon system (not to mention the capability to handle the flow rate) and are better off designing a sump rather than purchasing a mass produced sump.

Jim

[BluScrnOdeth]

Thanks Jim, thats what I was looking for. I dont have any coral, just fish and have been wondering about the flow rates i shouod provide for them and i have been debating between 1800-2500gph. I'm open to a pump costing a bit more than $100, just wanted to try to keep the cost down to keep the wife happy :-) . I'll look into the pump(s) you recommended. I will be building my own dump area. I have a 55 gallon tank that I think will do fine in supplying proprietor filtration and such.

[BluScrnOdeth]

i decided to get a 900gph sump pump and a 1300 gph powerhead. the 900 gph pump pumps 700gph at roughly 5' so i think thats plenty of flow for the refuge to do a good job of cleaning the water before it gets sucked back up again. and the 1300gph powerhead should create a nice flow with the other power head i have (i forget the rating) it seems as though all the pumps that were around the 200gph+ rang all wanted it's own 15amp circuit, i just dont have the ambition to crawl through my attic to run it it's own circuit. plus this way i use less energy.

[chimmike]

900gph return pump, after head loss, will be 400gph or so. not even close to enough for a 200+ gallon tank.

Not to be mean, but I'll put it this way. Expenses in both equipment and electrical bills increase as tank sizes go up. IF you're not willing/able to put the money into proper equipment for a tank that size, perhaps you should consider downsizing?

There's no acceptable pump for that setup for less than $100 new. Shoot. If you can find a reeflo, used, and in working order, for less than $100, you'd be lucky.

[uncleof6]

i decided to get a 900gph sump pump and a 1300 gph powerhead. the 900 gph pump pumps 700gph at roughly 5' so i think thats plenty of flow for the refuge to do a good job of cleaning the water before it gets sucked back up again. and the 1300gph powerhead should create a nice flow with the other power head i have (i forget the rating) it seems as though all the pumps that were around the 200gph+ rang all wanted it's own 15amp circuit, i just dont have the ambition to crawl through my attic to run it it's own circuit. plus this way i use less energy.

Well, Chim covered the return pump, so I won't go back over that. Pumps, running in continuous duty should be on dedicated circuits anyway, especially with pumps that SHOULD ;) be used on big tanks. I'll probably catch some flak for that, but don't really care. Motor installation, (motor control and protection,) is a specialization, within the electrical field. As far as electrical usage, a Dart uses only slightly more than a light bulb. (A real light bulb, not a CFL. ;) )

Jim

[BluScrnOdeth]

According to their chart at 4 feet lift it pumps 750 gallons. With loss do to restrictions of the plumbing (90 degree bends) im guessing that it would reduce it no more than 50-100gph. So that's still above 600gph pumping over 2x the volume in 1 hour. It's not a reef tank if thats why your thinking its underpowered.

[sjm817]

What model is the pump? The amount they lose due to head loss varies considerably. The plumbing setup especially diameter has a significant affect on the GPH as well. This is just a fuge? No skimmer? Is it doing anything else? What is in it? Macro algae? How big is the refugium? Is it the 55G? You dont need a lot of flow through a small - medium size fuge.

[uncleof6]

Even the old antiquated, out of date, less than optimal, under gravel filter garbage, rule of thumb says 3 - 5 x. With 3x being dismal at best. And I ain't even gone to the 40 - 100x for a reef tank. Not to mention that most flow curves are rather idealistic, as any ad hype is. Save the money on the hi electric usage lighting (uses more than a good pump does) because that you REALLY do not need for a Fish only tank. ;) But hey, it is your tank, and you can run it however you want to. :D Hint: a marine system is a marine system. Doesn't matter if it is a reef or a fish tank, it is still a marine system.

Jim

[sjm817]

FO systems dont need a lot of turnover. High turnover is needed to keep coral healthy and even non SPS doesn't need (or like) all that much. Systems can be run sumpless which is 0 GPH from the return. A modest return to run a fuge will work fine with some in display flow turnover such as powerheads. You dont need a ton of flow racing through a fuge. And yes, same with lighting. High power lighting is needed for coral, not fish. You need enough lighting so you can see them, but that's it. Strong lighting will encourage algae growth and use more electricity.

[chimmike]

turnover keeps sediments and detritus suspended in the water column. Low flow=detritus settling everywhere=lots of cleaning to do to prevent params from getting out of hand.

I think that's the point Uncle was making.

[sjm817]

Right, but turnover can be done in the display. You dont need a huge return to sump turnover rate to do that. That being said, I've seen FO and FO/softie systems that have almost no turnover. Just a modest sump return setup and a maxijet or two. They look great. I'm sure my system would be a mess if I ever tried that! LOL

[BluScrnOdeth]

I get to build the fuge today. It is a 55gal tank ill section off. The pump is a Rio+ 3100. The powerhead I bought for the tank should do adequate as it pumps 1300gph, plus my other powerhead, plus the roughly 600gph from the pump. I plan on sticking some orthopods, macro algae, nitrate clams and a skimmer down there

[sjm817]

You are looking to add this to a system that is up and running? Its not a new system, correct? If so, how is the system running now? Is there a particular problem you are looking to solve?

[HighlandReef]

Check into the laguna/askoll pumps
They are great pumps and very well known in the industry
Simply put they rock
I have a laguna 4200 gph pump running my entire system off manifold
I can't hear it over my sro5000 skimmer sucking air
It's very quiet
They are great pumps
Forgot to mention, they are great on the energy aspect as well
My 4100 gph laguna is running at just under 190w

[BluScrnOdeth]

It is not up and running. I just built the tank last weekend, filled it and let it sit over the week outside to check for leaks. I should get my pump monday or tuesday. I currently have a 55gal tank setup. What im building today is the surface simmer, fuge and stand. So far no leaks, currently draining the tank.

[BluScrnOdeth]

The problem i was having was deciding on a pump. I didn't want to run a 15amp circuit to the pump for the pump itself and found an article on here about some guys in EU that's doing what I'm doing and not having problems with large tanks.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Here you can see my tank http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=67515&id=1415105139&l=1b89b5ff04

I used fiberglass as base sealer, 2layers of latex paint and 2 layers of silicon on the entire inside to keep it waterproof.

[sjm817]

A new plywood build. That is a lot different than what I thought this was about. You have flexibility to do pretty much anything you want. I dont see an overflow setup. What is the plan?

[BluScrnOdeth]

I'll have a surface simmer that will drain into a refuge tank. I'll post some more pictures in my album tomorrow when I get the plumbing done. I'll let you know when they are posted.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Couple pics uploaded