glparr's NPS project

[glparr]

In early June (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1860180) I bought a Cirrhipathes spiralis, which was the first coral in my new NPS project. This came about after photographing Slapshot’s NPS corals (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1852345). That visit confirmed for me that I wanted to try keeping NPS corals.

In preparation, I’ve been selling off some of the leathers in my 40 breeder and moving others to my 65. I have a clownfish and a clam that is its home, so those have to stay in the 40, meaning I’ll be mixing leathers and NPS corals for the foreseeable future. Not an ideal arrangement, but it’s what works for now.

My setup is:

40 breeder w/20L sump
MagDrive 9.5 system pump
ASM G2 skimmer
BRS reactor with carbon and GFO
Chaeto on a reverse cycle
MP40 to create flow
T5 lights.


The tank gets a 10-gal. water change weekly and I use B-Ionic two-part daily for alk and calcium.

On July 5 my collection grew when I added a Nephthyigorgia, Umbellulifera, Tubastrea colony, and three Dendrophyllia colonies.

I’m currently shading the portion of the tank that contains the NPS corals to keep the light to a minimum during the day, while I work on a more permanent way to cut the light to that area.

I’ll talk about what I’ve learned about the corals in subsequent posts.

Gary

[glparr]

This is the Umbellulifera. When I got it, I put it on the sand. It wasn’t showing any polyp extension after a day and I knew it needed to eat, so I moved it up on the rocks into stronger current. Polyps started to open, so I started feeding RN Roti-Feast. It was doing OK for several days, but not great. This past Saturday I got some Rod’s Food Coral Blend. Within 24 hr. of regular feedings (turning off all flow and blanketing the coral with food) it started inflating more, standing more rigid, and opening more polyps. After a couple of days, it was looking more like a bush than branches with clusters and the polyps started showing much more aggressive feeding behavior.

Also on the rock is a small nub of the coral, quite separate from the main colony. It was showing no polyp extension at all and I figured it would just wither and die. A couple of days after I started feeding the Rod’s Food, it started showing polyps and eating. Today it is expanding to twice its size and showing considerable polyp extension. Looks like it’ll be part of the show.

The coral is getting a mixture of the Rod’s Food Coral Blend, Roti-Feast, and Cyclopeez. It seems to be getting what it needs, though it’s been a very short time period. If it continues to look and act well, I’ll keep up the feeding. If not, I’ll switch to some other food.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gpumbellulifera06.jpg

[glparr]

The Nephthyigorgia is the NPS coral I wanted most and it’s turning out to be the problem child. When I first got it, I had it sitting low in the tank, upright, and shaded. It was showing some polyps but not expanding at all. I was feeding it RN Roti-Feast. The polyps seemed to be eating.

I communicated with Slapshot (Don Arndt) and he said his only eats frozen Cyclopeez and likes lots of flow. He also suggested it was starved and to feed as much as possible. He also suggested turning it on its side or upside down. I put it on its side and, every time the polyps appear, I’ve been blanketing it with Cyclopeez. It’s definitely eating, but still not expanding. It’s near the end/back corner of the tank and in very good flow, but tonight I put a small Korallia power head in that corner to increase flow even more. Within an hour it was showing better polyp extension and starting to put out some “fingers” of tissue. I’ll see how it does in the next couple of days.

Here’s what it was looking like before I added the Korallia.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gpchili01.jpg

[glparr]

Here’s the Tubastrea and two of the Dendrophyllias. The first Dendro has rather large polyps. The second is more conventional sized. The third Dendro is very different, with cream polyp bases and clear tentacles. It only extends them in the dark. I’ve been feeding it, but can’t get any photos yet.

Tubastrea
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gptubastrea01.jpg

Large-polyp Dendrophyllia
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gplargedendro01.jpg

Regular Dendrophyllia
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gpdendrophyllia01.jpg

[glparr]

My Cirrhipathes spiralis has been doing very well and showing notable growth. Here’s what it looks like today.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gpcirrhipathesspiralis03.jpg

[Aquabacs]

Beatifully done Gary. That Umbellulifera is smokin' hot!

Mike

[flying_dutchman]

Beautiful :), FTS?

[alexruegamer]

hi
i think your umbelluferia is an scleronephtya

greez alex

[glparr]

I got it from Diver's Den and Kevin Kohen ID'd it. You're the second person who has said that to me. How to you tell the difference?

Thanks, Aquabacs, Dutchman. Dutchman, I'll see about a FTS. It looks kind of goofy with the left half packed and the right have rather open with a few NPS frags.

Gary

[alexruegamer]

hi
i´m from germany so my english is not so good... words translated with google...

umbelluliferia lives in the sand.
and it has a long thin root with headpolyps like a umbel.
alex

[glparr]

Thanks. Given that, it's clearly a sclero because it is firmly anchored on rock and isn't going anywhere.
Gary

[glparr]

One of my early frustrations with this NPS stuff is there seems to be no source for identifying corals or a place that shows decent photos of the various types of corals. I so dislike posting photos without proper identification. Are there sources and I haven't looked in the right spots? Is there an NPS book?
Gary

[alexruegamer]

i have a book called
"Korallenführer Indopazifik" von Daniel Knop... i think this book even avalible in
the us...
in this book theres a lot of pictures from azoo gorgs and other corals...

the isbn is:3-440-10293-9

alex

[glparr]

Thanks Alex. I'll see if there's an English translation of the book. I'm language challenged. :)

[alexruegamer]

hi
i found it:
http://www.amazon.com/Corals-Indo-Pacific-Field-Harry-Erhardt/dp/3925919694/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279209840&sr=8-10

[SaraB]

Great pictures Gary!

Also, no I don't have that book on my shelf, so you'll have to order one up!

[Aquabacs]

One of my early frustrations with this NPS stuff is there seems to be no source for identifying corals or a place that shows decent photos of the various types of corals. I so dislike posting photos without proper identification. Are there sources and I haven't looked in the right spots? Is there an NPS book?
Gary

Gary, the book to get, that is difficult to find right now since it is out of production is Soft Corals and Sea Fans by Katharinia Fabricius and Philip Alderslade. It's is honestly one of the best books I have bought regarding non-photosynthetic corals...plenty of photos of different variants of each coral.

Mike

[DaveBien]

Knop is also the editor of "Koralle" magazine in Germany. The US version is "Coral" magazine. The photos are just one step below yours Gary. LOL.

PS: A book Sara DOESN'T have????? lmao. Impossible.

[slapshot]

Still waiting for the FTS!:bounce2::bounce3::bounce1:

[SaraB]

Still waiting for the FTS!:bounce2::bounce3::bounce1:

I've gone and littered Gary's beautiful NPS tank with a large amount of chalice frags as my system is having some issues ... so it may be a while for a good looking FTS :hmm5:

[glparr]

My new Dendronephthya and a shot of my Tubastrea colony.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gpdendronephthyaflash01a.jpg

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/gptubastreaflash01a.jpg

[Aquabacs]

Gary, beautiful as always. You can send an 8 x 10 of that Dendronephthya to me for my office :D

Mike

[glparr]

Thanks, Mike.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

You are welcome Gary. I give credit where credit is due...you photography skills are nothing less than amazing.

I could turn the pumps off in my tank for an hour, with everything in my water column, I could not get my tank to be that clear...even with photoshop ;)

Mike

[slapshot]

Dang....amazing as always. That is hands down the best picture of a Tubastrea I have ever seen!

[glparr]

Thanks again, Mike. Next time I get a business trip to the NJ/NYC area, hoping to visit you and photograph your animals.

Thanks, Don. Glad you like the image.

Gary

[vsnph]

Still waiting for the FTS!:bounce2::bounce3::bounce1:


+1:dance:

[glparr]

The FTS would not be all that attractive. The left half of the tank is filled with my clam, some leathers, and a large pipe organ colony. The right half has my NPS corals, which are small colonies/frags and then a bunch of frags/plugs that I'm housing for SaraB until her system settles down. I'll provide the shot when it will be worth looking at.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Thanks again, Mike. Next time I get a business trip to the NJ/NYC area, hoping to visit you and photograph your animals.

Thanks, Don. Glad you like the image.

Gary

That would be awesome! Name your poison so I make sure I have it on hand ;)

Mike

[coltrref]

amazing pics

[glparr]

That would be awesome! Name your poison so I make sure I have it on hand ;)

Mike

LOL! I'm easy. My poison is Diet Pepsi and clean aquarium glass so I can get clear shots. I'll let you know when I get to the East Coast.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Sounds cool.

Just figured out why my picture are sometimes out of focus.

Photography tip from Gary #1: Drink diet Pepsi & and clean glass for clear shots

I misread it and was drinking clear shots & diet Pepsi while cleaning my glass.


Mike

[glparr]

I hate when I unintentionally give away the trade secrets!!! Yes, you had things out of order. You were probably having more fun, but the photos will not be nearly as sharp.
Gary

[slapshot]

Sounds cool.

Just figured out why my picture are sometimes out of focus.

Photography tip from Gary #1: Drink diet Pepsi & and clean glass for clear shots

I misread it and was drinking clear shots & diet Pepsi while cleaning my glass.


Mike

Now that is funny! Mike your pictures are pretty good.....maybe I'll try your method.

[glparr]

A bit of an update. I started this project the 4th of July. Dendrophyllias and Tubatreas are doing very well. My chili is showing excellent expansion, if not some growth. It feeds actively. I added a Dendronephthya about three weeks ago. After adjusting it has been showing good expansion, i.e., it stands tall, and seems to be feeding well. Time will tell on that. My Scleronephthya, added July 4, is of concern. Lately it has not been expanding as much and does not have the "cloud" of polyps it displayed a few weeks ago. I'm wondering if it's slowly fading away.

I'm target feeding two or three times in the morning and as many times as I can get in from the time I get home at about 5:30 until midnight. All circulation is turned off for each feeding and the three corals (chili, dendro, sclero) are basically coated with food. After a few minutes, I turn on the Vortech, but not the main drive pump, and let the excess food circulate in the water so the corals can feed. Typically the main drive pump is off for several hours as the food is circulated and eaten. The tank also has some leathers, pipe organs, and a clam, so all are getting to feed.

My standard feed is various mixtures of Rod's coral food (not used as much anymore), rotifers, Cyclopeez, Ultra Minf and Ultra Clam. I feed as much of the FM foods as possible.

The last couple of weeks the tank temp has been in the high 70s. The chili doesn't like it warm, but the other two don't seem to mind.

I'm not sure if the Sclero is deteriorating or just going through a phase. I'm used to keeping leathers, so I don't expect corals to be on full display all of the time. Does my diet need to be modified? Don Arndt has suggested Ultra Pac for the dendro. I haven't purchased it yet, but it's on the horizon. Would that also help the Sclero?

Though I'm feeding heavily for extended periods, are the big gaps in feeding an issue?

Would appreciate any feedback.

Gary

[Aquabacs]

Gary, Pac works good to help the food mixture stick to the coral. Once the mixture is created, the Pac forms a gel or jelly like substance. What ever you mix into it, will stick to the coral if you direct feed it with a turkey baster or device along those lines. This can help direct feeding work more efficiently. Especially if the polyps are weak or retracted. I didn't notice if you feeding any type of phyto or not (something to look into). Also are you running GAC on this tank? Or change recently? If you are, try to experiment by stop using it for a few days. Since GAC effect the Total Organic Compounds (TOC) in the aquarium I have been lead to believe Azoox coral tanks require a higher level. I wish I had access to equipment to measure this or have a place that I can send my water to often (at a reasonable price) so I can further back this up with true data versus Mike said so ;) For the gaps in the feeding time, have you looked at cycling your skimmer?









Mike

[glparr]

Thanks, Mike. Very helpful. Yes, I run carbon and change it out every two weeks. Never considered cycling my skimmer. This gives me some things to work on. Thanks, again.
Gary

[Matt_Wandell]

I wish I had access to equipment to measure this or have a place that I can send my water to often (at a reasonable price) so I can further back this up with true data versus Mike said so ;)

Watch GBD closely in the next few days. :D

[Aquabacs]

Really! :bounce3:

No keeping secrets Matt


Mike

[Matt_Wandell]

Really! :bounce3:

No keeping secrets Matt


Mike

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/dissolved-organic-carbon-doc-uv-254-aquarium/

[Aquabacs]

Nice write up Matt and great news for you working with Eric. He's a great guy!

[glparr]

Here's a movie of three of my azoox corals. It's the result of learning how to combine three clips into one movie using iMovie HD. It's lame, but I thought people here would enjoy viewing.

I bought Ultra Min d instead of Ultra pac. I have no regular food recipe, so I went with the stuff that had extra nutrients. I've been mixing Min d with my Rod's coral mix, Cyclopeez, rotifers, Min f, and Seafan and feeding that mix for the past two days. The Dendronephthya/Scleronephthya?? is responding well and the Sclero seems to be improving. The Nephthyigorgia is pig and eats pretty much what's thrown at it.

The Sclero is showing better polyp extension than a few days ago and is expanding better, too. An interesting behavior change with the Sclero since I've been mixing Min d is that, when it's "coated" with food, the polyps seem to grab food and close. The coral stays expanded, but the polyps remain closed for a short while, then reopen. I'm assuming they are now grabbing/holding the food (as a result of Min d addition) and able to get it into their "mouths." Maybe I'm just dreaming, but the behavior is different and consistent and the coral seems to be improving from a few days ago when I was concerned it was headed down the slope to death. But, it's only been two days and that's hardly long enough to determine anything with confidence.

Gary

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WYQwUFyZ88Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WYQwUFyZ88Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[alexruegamer]

hi gary

very nice vid!!!

but when i look at the first two corals seems to me like scleros! the first ist definitly a sclero. the second seems even too. i dont think that is a dendro.


oh my english is soo bad::blown:

alex

[glparr]

I bought the first one (orange/red) as a dendro. After Alex's post I did some more research and have to agree, they're both Scleros. I hate when I get these things wrong. Alex, thanks for taking the time to view and give your input. Also, don't apologize for your English. You can communicate in multiple languages. I only know one language and am alway envious of those who are multilingual.

Gary

[slapshot]

Well your Scleros are doing better than mine. Actually my test Dendron is doing way better than them. I think I surrender on them. Well at least until we see what Gresham has up his sleeve. Nice video Gary.

[oldreefer76]

Very nice video

[alexruegamer]

hi gary

forget the names, its important that the corals look fine!!!
you make a great job... i even had a sclero too and i hope i will have the same success in my new tank.

greez alex

[glparr]

This one hates light. I believe it's a Dendrophyllia. It extends 1+-in.-long tentacles in the dark, but any light and it starts retracting. I have to photograph it in the dark. This is the best shot to date. The tentacles were fully extended when I started to photograph it. I shined a small flashlight on it a couple of times so I could focus and it immediately started retracting its tentacles. I got this shot. In the followup shot, the tentacles were almost completely retracted. I have to feed it early in the morning when it's still dark because it doesn't show any tentacle extension during the day. It appears to have some great colors but you have to be a bat to enjoy it.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/unknowndendrophyllia.jpg

[coltrref]

Hello glparr
beautiful image, but more beautiful the coral, I have serious doubts that the case of a Dendrophyllia, but possible.

[glparr]

Colt,
What's your ID suggestion?
Gary

[coltrref]

that you think of the Cladopsammia, Paracyathus or Balanophyllia?

[SaraB]

Gary - I recognize the Balanophyllia name when I picked that out for you.

[alexruegamer]

hi
i think its a bala!!! and when you say it hates light, i even think more thats a balanophyllia

greez alex

[uhuru]

I would put money on it being balanophyllia.

[glparr]

Then it's Balanophyllia. And a good pick Sara. It's a most interesting coral, when I can see it. ;)
Gary

[glparr]

This is a new colony SaraB found for me a couple of weeks ago. It's doing well, expanding and filling in nicely. Responsive to feeding and seems to take in food. There are actually two species in the mix. You can see a cluster of the second species to the left and below of center. A second cluster of that species is hidden upper right. I don't know if it's Scleronephthya or Dendronephthya. Alex?

Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/unknownazoox01.jpg

[glparr]

A little reef art. These are Nephthyigorgia polyps under actinic light.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/nephthyigorgia9-7-10actinic01.jpg

[uhuru]

Man, amazing photography!

All the corals in the first pic look like scleronephthya to me, maybe I'm missing something?

Looks like you have some really healthy specimens to start with!

[glparr]

Thanks for the photography compliment. I couldn't tell you if you're missing anything. Very likely they're scleronephthya. I simply don't have enough experience to know. They are very healthy and filling out and expanding well. The color is so intense that they are hard to photograph and retain detail in all of the polyps.
Gary

[slapshot]

Looks like scleros to me, but who am I. Either way very nice. Love the actinic shot!!

[alexruegamer]

sclero!!!:beer:

nice pics! great job!

alex

[glparr]

A bundle of polyps to stare at.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/possibledendronephthya04.jpg

[Aquabacs]

Gary, thanks for the Azoox p*rn

Wonder if my wife would mind if I replaced her picture in my wallet and my desk with that. :beer:

Mike

[glparr]

Glad to be of assistance. ;)
Gary

[flying_dutchman]

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/nephthyigorgia9-7-10actinic01.jpg
do you have a high res of that? Cuz I need a new background :)

[SaraB]

Amazing shot Gary!!! Looks like they are starting to cooperate with you during the photo sessions!

[glparr]

Thanks, Sara. Yes, starting to understand their behavior better.
Gary

[slapshot]

Amazing shot Gary!!! Looks like they are starting to cooperate with you during the photo sessions!

Yep, nothing like traveling all the way to Michigan to have the stupid scelos not open up for a photograph!! For the record, I am giving up on them. My dendron is open all the time and grew a little and my scelos are just shrinking away. I thought it was suppose to be the other way around. Going to try some more dendrons though.

[glparr]

Clearly, Don, you have that extra special talent. Can't believe that scleros won't grow in the same tank with dendrons.
Gary

[glparr]

Sclero forest
About four weeks ago SaraB found this collection of sclero colonies growing on a 6-in. clam shell. Since then the expansion and polyp extension has been better than I expected. I realize that a month is nothing for keeping these corals, but I'm encouraged so far.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/clamshellsclero9-16-10.jpg

[SaraB]

That piece is looking great Gary! I guess I've become your NPS connection and I don't even keep this type of coral ;-)

[glparr]

Yes, you have delivered some beautiful specimens. The next goal is to still have them thriving at this time next year.
Gary

[glparr]

Playing around with the camera in the dark the other night. Here are the results.

Nephthyigorgia
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/nephthyigorgia9-19-1001.jpg

Scleronephthya
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/sclero9-19-1001.jpg

[klepto]

I like the contrast and effect that the lighting has on these last two. I sure wish my meddling around in the dark was even halfway as productive! :D

[WSI2406]

WOW great photography skills. Really nice work. I shoot weddings, but it is very hard to shoot through glass and get this detail. Amazing corals also. Great work, vibrant colors.

[glparr]

Thanks klepto and WSI2406. Glad you enjoyed the images.
Gary

[glparr]

Scleronephthya with a house guest

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/scleronephthya9-24-10a.jpg

[flying_dutchman]

Do the worms cause any problems?
Also, when does azoox.org get online?

[glparr]

Actually, it's a serpent star of some kind. I have a few of these small stars that are cream colored. Don't know where they came from.

I have no idea when www.azoox.org starts. I think Mike said sometime in late Sept., but we're in late Sept. and . . .

Gary

[alexruegamer]

oh cool
is azoox.org a new community for nps?

alex

[slapshot]

oh cool
is azoox.org a new community for nps?

alex

Yes!!!

[Aquabacs]

Don't worry, good things come to those who wait, everyone here will know when it is ready to be launched ;)







Mike

[glparr]

Mike,
Do you know who is putting azoox.org together? is it Reef Nutrition? You? Gresham?
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Gary,I will send you a message on FB.



Mike

[Western_reefer]

I have no idea when www.azoox.org starts. I think Mike said sometime in late Sept., but we're in late Sept. and . . .

Gary
Awesome! Can't wait till it starts! :bounce1:

[glparr]

Some minor but positive news. I have a cluster of Scleronephthya that I've had for about six weeks. All of the pieces were and are doing well, except one. That cluster/stalk has remained closed for about four weeks and was starting to get a bit of algae growth. I'd given up on it and was going to cut it out of the colony since I figured it was dying. This morning it was open and taking food!! Hooray! Once again, I learn to not give up on corals. They have amazing resilience.
Gary

[slapshot]

That is great news!!!:dance:

[glparr]

This Scleronephthya was looking rather good tonight, so I thought I'd capture the moment. The second shot is part of a colony of I don't know what that is growing at the base of another Sclero colony. Would appreciate an ID if someone knows what they are.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/schleroclam10-3103.jpg

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/unknown10-3101.jpg

[SaraB]

Fantastic photo Gary! Is that the one on the clam shell?

[glparr]

Thanks, Sara. Yes, the first photo is part of what's growing on that clam shell. That thing is a small forest.
Gary

[slapshot]

Ok those are just plain sweet! Who ever does your shoping picked out a nice colony. ;0 I think the little one is a Dendron. Interesting polyps though. They seem bigger. Have you seen it grab bigger food items?

[SaraB]

Ok those are just plain sweet! Who ever does your shoping picked out a nice colony. ;0

Yes, I'm Garys personal NPS shopper ... maybe I should farm out my shopping services to others ;)

[glparr]

Yes, Don. She's a true talent! She can spot good coral and a good deal from miles away!

The corals in the second shot are about 1/2-in. long and seem to be growing as a substrate-based colony, i.e., they are not showing any indication of a stalk/tree structure. They're growing and multiplying with some vigor, though I haven't fed them directly. Their food source has primarily been the "cocktail" I feed to the Scleros and the Chili coral. I'll try feeding them some of Rod's Pacific Plankton to see if they can take it in.

Gary

[Aquabacs]

Cant wait to see some beautiful shots of that baby you picked up this weekend a the F & S open house ;)

Mike

[glparr]

Mike, was going to photograph my crinoid tonight, but it's doing a little traveling. However, my first Dendronephthya was standing proud, so here's a shot of it.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/dendronephthya11-14-1001.jpg

[Aquabacs]

By far my favorite Gary.

[uhuru]

Beautiful! How long have you had that one now?

[glparr]

Thanks for the compliments. Uhuru, just got it Sat. at Diver's Den.
Gary

[slapshot]

Wow, that is sweet! One of us is going to figure out how to make those survive and then thrive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[happysak]

Amazing:D Gary, do you use flash?

Thank you, Roman

[glparr]

Roman,
In this case, yes; remote and diffused. But not diffused enough. A little hot in the upper portion. Will try again when I can take more time.
Gary

[klepto]

...Uhuru, just got it Sat. at Diver's Den.
Gary

I bet you are pretty stoaked about the new NPS section on DD! :thumbsup: I wish I had a Non-photo tank! Someday... :rolleyes:

[coltrref]

Mike, was going to photograph my crinoid tonight, but it's doing a little traveling. However, my first Dendronephthya was standing proud, so here's a shot of it.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/dendronephthya11-14-1001.jpg


Amazing :thumbsup:

[glparr]

This is my crinoid. It's still alive after a week. Yay! In the past two days its movements when food is in the water have been much stronger and quicker. I was excited about this clear improvement then, to mock me, most of today it has sat all curled up and hasn't responded to food squirted at it. Is it possible to overfeed them?

It's also frustrated me because it has oriented itself perpendicular to the glass and, not surprisingly, facing the main current. This makes it very difficult to get any decent photos, so here's the best I could get so far.

Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/crinoid11-19-1002.jpg

[Luca_]

Ciao, compliments, also for the pictures! :thumbsup:

[Terryz_]

Your tank is a inspiration for me.. Love Dendro and Sclero and have a few with me.. Seems to be doing fine..

[Aquabacs]

Gary, the majority of them are gluttonous feeders. They will eat until they can't eat any more, close up, then they will be back at it again. There are times the fill their guts so far they will be on the brink of exploding...that is after some serious feeding of course. The center of the crinoid will look like a small Hersey kiss when the gut is completely full. If the center of the crinoid pops, you will see a white plate structure (the aboral cup, any biologists step in if described the area incorrectly or identified it incorrectly). What is interesting the crinoid will live for a period of time if the gut pops but I have not read of this area regenerating. I actually have one crinoid in my possession now that this happened to and trying to observe if some how it will regenerate or not. It has been 39 days since this happened. When this has happened in the past, I would euthanize the crinoid. Normally a stressed/starved crinoid with drop arms and completely falls apart and dies, in this case when the gut pops, arms and cirri stay in tacked, the tips of the arms drop, crinoid functions normally like nothing happened. Now with the food having no where to go, it is either going to starve itself, find some alternate way to intake food, or use energy from other parts of the crinoid to regenerate itself if it can not intake food.


Mike

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[glparr]

Thanks, Mike. Very helpful. It was open again this morning and got coated in food. I think it's fine. I'm very pleased that, so far, it has only dropped one arm and that was the day after I brought it home. I chalk that one up to shipping. I was very nervous about buying one because I had visions of waking up the next morning to a pile of crinoid rubble. It was SaraB peer pressure that pushed me over the edge and, so far, I'm glad I made the purchase. If this one continues to show positive behavior, I just might be in the market for a second. Here's a lame, and poorly executed, attempt at an "art" shot that shows structural detail in the arms.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/crinoid11-21-1001.jpg

[SaraB]

I was very nervous about buying one because I had visions of waking up the next morning to a pile of crinoid rubble. It was SaraB peer pressure that pushed me over the edge and, so far, I'm glad I made the purchase.


Glad to add the peer pressure Gary! Now I just need to clean all my chalices out of your tank so you can turn this tank into a full NPS tank! I'm now sort of worried about my chalices starving once they come back home to my system after they've gorged on food in your tank!

[glparr]

Yes, your chalices will be asking some serious questions about the food supply when they go back home. They are digging the Buffet for Gluttons.
Gary

[glparr]

One of my Archohelia colonies. Hoping it'll show more color as it adapts to the tank and food.

Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/archoheliarediviva11-19-1001.jpg

[Trichome]

Great picture as usual. I hope to own a colony of Archohelia for myself some day. It will be neat to see a before and after picture in about 6 months.

[glparr]

I'm next on the bio-pellet bandwagon. Ordered my reactor, pellets, and nitrate and phosphate test kits from Premium today. If holiday shipping doesn't hold things up, I should have pellets soaking Thursday night. Yay!
Gary

[slapshot]

Gary, you won't be sorry. Especially since you are keeping feathers. I lost mine during the nitrate spike. I think they are very sensitive to Nitrate.

[glparr]

Thanks, Don. I'm excited to get things set up.
Gary

[SaraB]

You must have forgotten about the Lamotte nitrate test kit here? You can grab it tonight.

[glparr]

I did forget. I'll be happy to borrow it.
Gary

[glparr]

I am officially aboard the bio-pellet bandwagon. I set up a Vertex UF-15 reactor and started with about 80 ml of Vertex Pro pellets. This is for a 40-breeder w/sump. I'm estimating 45 actual gallons of water. My phosphates were 0.2-0.3, but nitrates at 20+. The pellets are tumbling now. I'm hoping to get the same exciting results as Don got.
Gary

[flying_dutchman]

Nice! be sure to keep us updated.
Only 80ml? Do you mean 800ml?

[glparr]

No, 80 ml. According to the package, I'm going to top out at about 350 ml. Starting small and slow.
Gary

[glparr]

Like Uhuru, I got a Chironephthya (at least I believe it's a Chiro) from DD (got mine in Nov.) and it was not looking good. It was shriveled and flopping all over, with minimal to no polyp extension. I glued it on a piece of rock, put it in strong flow, and coated it in food every chance I got. It's now standing tall and showing off its polyps most of the day.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/chironephthya12-11-1001.jpg

[stunreefer]

It was shriveled and flopping all over, with minimal to no polyp extension. I glued it on a piece of rock, put it in strong flow, and coated it in food every chance I got. It's now standing tall and showing off its polyps most of the day.
Well done sir, what a comeback! :thumbsup:

I'm also very intrigued to see how the pellet's work for you...

[slapshot]

How's the Nitrates? You should be about ready to add the other 1/4 now. Hows your Feather? After mine died I did some reading and I guess they hate Nitrates. I'm chocking the loss up to the spike. My last spike I hope. Checked my Nitrates yesterday and they are too low to measure now. :rollface::dance:

[uhuru]

Like Uhuru, I got a Chironephthya (at least I believe it's a Chiro) from DD (got mine in Nov.) and it was not looking good. It was shriveled and flopping all over, with minimal to no polyp extension. I glued it on a piece of rock, put it in strong flow, and coated it in food every chance I got. It's now standing tall and showing off its polyps most of the day.

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/chironephthya12-11-1001.jpg

Wow I hope mine recovers this well but it seems so far from it! Great job!

[glparr]

Nitrates were unchanged last night. I skipped the weekend water change so as not to unnaturally alter the situation. Tonight will be 48+ hours, which, I recall, was the mark at which you saw a drop in nitrates. I'm hoping that the nitrates have dropped so I can add another quantity of pellets.

The crinoid has been moving around quite a bit and has not opened as frequently in the past couple of days as it has previously. I'm confident the nitrate level is making it uncomfortable. Phosphates are low and a non-issue. If the pellets don't cause a nitrate drop in the next 24 hr., I'm going to do a water change.

As of this morning, the skimmate seemed to be noticeably darker and the pellets in the reactor had lost that factory-new look, so progress is being made. I started with 80 ml and plan to add 100 ml with the next load.

gary

How's the Nitrates? You should be about ready to add the other 1/4 now. Hows your Feather? After mine died I did some reading and I guess they hate Nitrates. I'm chocking the loss up to the spike. My last spike I hope. Checked my Nitrates yesterday and they are too low to measure now. :rollface::dance:

[glparr]

According to the Salifert kit, the nitrates have dropped from 20+ to 10. The LaMotte kit says nitrates are at 26. This is the first time I've used the LaMotte kit, so I don't know if it's also indicating a drop. Regardless, I'm soaking 100 ml of pellets and will put them in the reactor in the morning.
Gary

[glparr]

Regardless of test-kit readings, something is improving because corals that have been struggling lately, particularly the Scleros, are looking much better.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Gary that amazing shot is the new wallpaper for my phone....absolutely beautiful. Hopefully Santa is good to me this year and there will be a gift card for photography lessons in my stocking :)

Mike

[glparr]

Thanks, Mike. I'm still trying to get a business trip to your area so I can photograph your tank. Then photography lessons are free. If only you lived in Vegas, where they seem to hold all trade shows these days.

Crinoid seems to have settled down and is showing better behavior. I think those pellets are working.

Gary

[Terryz_]

Hi gary, Dont mind if I ask a question...

I got a crinoid recently and seems to be doing well, It is opening during feeding and at night and closed for the rest of the time, I supposed this is normal?

And is there any indication or behavior to show that it is feeding?

[glparr]

Terry,
My crinoid knowledge comes, primarily, from Aquabacs, and what I've been able to find on the Internet, which isn't much. Mike is the expert. I've only owned mine for a month, though I've studied crinoids rather thoroughly, since buying mine. Here are a few things I know:
--If they're moving around, something isn't right and they're burning up energy, so you have to make sure they are well fed, in addition to finding the problem.
--If they're losing arms, it's also a sign of trouble. Mine lost one arm after I initially put it in the tank. No arms have been lost since. I assume it's growing a replacement, but I couldn't find which arm that is in that mass of feathers if I tried.
--There are two basic kinds--One perches on rocks or other surfaces in the open and spreads its arms in a fan array to capture food. The other type tends to crawl into rock creases or some other hiding place and then put its arms out in random directions to collect food.
--Mine will curl up much of the day, opening a few arms if food is in the water. In the morning and evening, and I assume night, the arms will be spread quite a bit.
--My nitrates are high right now and my crinoid is not happy. It was wandering all over for the past four days. As of yesterday, it settled in one spot and hasn't moved. That coincides with my bio-pellets starting to have an effect on the nitrates. I hope it's getting happier.
--They feed with their mouth/front side of the arms downstream. They're more efficient at grabbing food that passes through the "backside" of their arms. The tube feet along the pinnules grab the food and put it in the ambulacral groove that runs along the front side of the arm. Food passes down this groove to the mouth.
--They can capture food that strikes their front, but are not as efficient at capturing it and getting it to their oral opening.

That's a quick mind dump. Hope it helps,

Gary

[glparr]

Added 100 ml of pellets this morning. My chili coral is verrry unhappy. My Scleros and Dendron are really starting to strut their stuff again, archohelias are absolute fuzzballs, spider sponge polyps are in full extension, and Dendrophyllias are not happy. I'm sure the malcontents will improve their attitudes in the next couple of days as the nitrates drop. At least that's what I'm telling myself.
Gary

[Terryz_]

Terry,
My crinoid knowledge comes, primarily, from Aquabacs, and what I've been able to find on the Internet, which isn't much. Mike is the expert. I've only owned mine for a month, though I've studied crinoids rather thoroughly, since buying mine. Here are a few things I know:
--If they're moving around, something isn't right and they're burning up energy, so you have to make sure they are well fed, in addition to finding the problem.
--If they're losing arms, it's also a sign of trouble. Mine lost one arm after I initially put it in the tank. No arms have been lost since. I assume it's growing a replacement, but I couldn't find which arm that is in that mass of feathers if I tried.
--There are two basic kinds--One perches on rocks or other surfaces in the open and spreads its arms in a fan array to capture food. The other type tends to crawl into rock creases or some other hiding place and then put its arms out in random directions to collect food.
--Mine will curl up much of the day, opening a few arms if food is in the water. In the morning and evening, and I assume night, the arms will be spread quite a bit.
--My nitrates are high right now and my crinoid is not happy. It was wandering all over for the past four days. As of yesterday, it settled in one spot and hasn't moved. That coincides with my bio-pellets starting to have an effect on the nitrates. I hope it's getting happier.
--They feed with their mouth/front side of the arms downstream. They're more efficient at grabbing food that passes through the "backside" of their arms. The tube feet along the pinnules grab the food and put it in the ambulacral groove that runs along the front side of the arm. Food passes down this groove to the mouth.
--They can capture food that strikes their front, but are not as efficient at capturing it and getting it to their oral opening.

That's a quick mind dump. Hope it helps,

Gary

Thanks a lot Gary, that is some good info... Oh no, Mine just started to move around... Something must be wrong, time to do water change...

[glparr]

Don't panic if they move. I did. They will move to seek a better position for food/flow. My understanding is that it's a concern if they keep moving.
Gary

[Terryz_]

Don't panic if they move. I did. They will move to seek a better position for food/flow. My understanding is that it's a concern if they keep moving.
Gary
Will monitor if it continues, it just stopped in front of my Vortech... Haha...

[glparr]

LaMotte kit said 22 this morning. I added another 100 ml of pellets. Total is now 280. Target is 350. Going to let this cook for a week regardless of the nitrate reading.
Gary

[SaraB]

Glad to see the LaMotte readings coming down as well! Merry Christmas!

[glparr]

Nitrates still at 22. Anxiously awaiting the next drop. Water change in the morning.
Gary

[glparr]

My nitrates may be on the high side, but good things seem to be happening. My Dendronephthya colony is on one end of a 4-in.-long rock. Today, at the opposite end, I noticed some growth, but it was too small to identify. I broke out the 180 mm lens and extension tubes so I could get a close look. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the growth is little Dendronephthya "nubbins." I have to say, I'm rather excited. They're hardly more than 1/4 in. tall.
Gary

http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/dendronsprouts12-25-10.jpg

[Western_reefer]

Post a FTS please! :inlove:

[glparr]

Western,
A FTS isn't worth it. Most of the tank space is taken up by SaraB's chalice collection, which I'm caring for until she gets her tank situation straightened out; my clam; and a couple of pipe organ colonies. In other words, as an azoox aquarium, it has no visual appeal, i.e., it's a jumbled mess. Eventually it'll be just azoox corals with my clam on one end, only because it's home to my 20-yr.-old clownfish, and will remain so until the clownfish dies. A pain from an NPS perspective, but that's the way it is.

Gary

[Western_reefer]

Western,
A FTS isn't worth it. Most of the tank space is taken up by SaraB's chalice collection, which I'm caring for until she gets her tank situation straightened out; my clam; and a couple of pipe organ colonies. In other words, as an azoox aquarium, it has no visual appeal, i.e., it's a jumbled mess. Eventually it'll be just azoox corals with my clam on one end, only because it's home to my 20-yr.-old clownfish, and will remain so until the clownfish dies. A pain from an NPS perspective, but that's the way it is.

Gary

Ah, come on. lol Doesn't matter if it doesn't look good yet! Just post a FTS. :p It will be good as you will have before and after pictures. :)

I am in the plans of upgrading from my 28 gallon nano cube to a 40 gallon breeder which is the same size as your tank. :) My tank wont be full azoox, but a mixed reef with lots of azoox animals. :D

[glparr]

Salifert says that nitrates have dropped to 10! Whoo! Hoo!! I'll do a LaMotte test in the morning to confirm. I love progress!
Gary

[flying_dutchman]

How's the crinoid doing?
A FTS isn't worth it. Most of the tank space is taken up by SaraB's chalice collection, which I'm caring for until she gets her tank situation straightened out; my clam; and a couple of pipe organ colonies.
Hurry up Sarah! lol j/k

[glparr]

Flying,
Crinoid is doing well, though it moves around a bit more than I care for. I'm hoping that will stop as the nitrates drop.

Sara's getting her tank and water situation straightened out. The chalice collection will be going home when she's ready. They're all much bigger than when they arrived. I might do a little fragging in the next week or two. At $100/eye, the frags will be a bargain for the buyer and verrry profitable for me. ;)

Gary

[Harald Waltrop]

Compliment for the beautiful pictures. A very nice project.

[SaraB]

Hurry up Sarah! lol j/k

I'm working on it as Gary said! I've got a 268G to take down and a new rimless tank to put back up first.


I might do a little fragging in the next week or two. At $100/eye, the frags will be a bargain for the buyer and verrry profitable for me. ;)

Holy smokes Gary, you are giving those away too cheap!!! I better get moving before you start selling frags off! :hammer:

[glparr]

Yup, priced to sell!

[Aquabacs]

Gary good to see the pellets are working out :) I would still continue to add them slowly over time and tweek the volume until you get nitrates where you want them. How have your phosphates been testing? Any noticeable difference or need for less GFO yet?

Dan at Avast Marine is working on a pair of larger custom reactors for my tank...hopefully it should be ready in two weeks or so and should look pretty hot. The pellets short term have been impressive; nitrates are staying below 5 on their own without doing a water change. Now, this week, I also have been able to start to reduce the GFO use by 1/4 cup every 5 days but that could be more due to the light LC dosing than the pellets but time will tell.

Mike

[glparr]

Mike,
OK, I'll add some. Phosphates are minimal. I removed GFO yesterday. It had solidified in the reactor, so wasn't doing any good anyway. The skimmer is producing more waste but nitrates are not dropping like I expected. Still at 10+. Also, the corals seem stressed today. I have a bit of a bacteria cloud in the water. Going to be patient for a day and see how things shake out. I'll put another 50 ml of pellets in tomorrow. A little nervous about things at the moment.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Gary I would hold adding any more pellets until the tank is back clear. Once it is clear, test, then add more. Also have you run into any issue with the foam being to thick and not braking when it hits the top of the cup?

[glparr]

The haze has cleared since I last posted. Something is changing/working. I think the pellets are starting to take effect. The foam is thicker and darker. It can't push the lid off because my skimmer is a G2 and the lid locks on. I cleaned the cup yesterday and had to clean it again today because the smell when I walked by the tank was rather strong. Maybe I'll add a small amount of pellets in the morning if things test out and the water stays clear. I think I'm making progress. I'm just not very good at dealing with change in my reef tanks. Makes me too nervous.
Gary

[Aquabacs]

Gary don't be nervous :) Experimenting is what makes this hobby so dam fun. Changing things up once in a while in the tank can be good thing. It also can be bad but either way if you learn from it and get something out of it...it isn't done in vain.

Mike

[glparr]

You're right, Mike, but it still makes me nervous.

Turns out, after a good deal of study, that the "haze" was primarily caused by microbubbles that have found their way into the system. Taking steps to eliminate them. There is no bacterial bloom. Nitrates remain in the 12 range. I added 50ml of additional pellets this morning and slowed down the flow through the reactor. Mulm is appearing on the reactor surfaces and the pellets. I assume that's the goal. Skimmer output continues to increase and smell.

Most of the NPS corals are closed. I'm sure the prolonged high nitrate level is the cause. Interestingly, the Dendronephthya remains open and active. The crinoid moves daily. It can't seem to find a good anchor point. I also assume that nitrates are irritating it, thought it opens when food is in the water and hasn't dropped any arms.

Gary

[slapshot]

Your on the right track Gary. Just go slow and you will be fine.

[glparr]

Thanks, Don. Discovered today that I can be a complete bonehead sometimes. My azoox coral have been looking like crap for the past couple of weeks and I haven't been able to figure it out. In addition, the nitrates have not been dropping like I expected with the biopellets.

I have never been one to test water parameters because I've used B-Ionic for years and once I get a dose dialed in, I just put that much in every day, along with weekly water changes, and have never had an issue with alk, Ca, or Mg. Thus, I quit testing water because I always got the same results.

This morning, I decided to run an alk test on my azoox tank, figuring it would get the same results I always get, but "just to see." I was shocked to see that my alk is through the roof, i.e., I used a whole syringe of reagent with the Salifert kit and still didn't get a color change, meaning it's 16+! Now, it's an old kit and I'm going to confirm the test with a newer kit later this afternoon, but I wondered why it would be so high.

As I mentally went through what I've done with the tank in the past couple of months, I realized that I've sold off a ton of leather corals as I transition to a total azoox tank. But I never changed my dosing amount to adjust for having many fewer and smaller colonies. I couldn't believe how dumb. So, after I confirm the alk reading, I'll be doing daily water changes to slowly bring down the alk and get things back in line. I would also expect to see the nitrates drop as the biopellets are better able to function. I hope the corals recover.

Yet another lesson learned. I've been doing this reef thing forever. You'd think I'd figure it out one day.

Gary

[GreshamH]

Good find Gary!

[Terryz_]

Good to know that you found out what is bothering your tank..

[DarkXerox]

Yeah I noticed that my old salifert alk tests can definitely be off over time. I think some of it may be evaporation related, but its why I like how the new versions come with an alk standard. There was a 5 dKh difference from the old and new kit I had--the older kit not having the standard solution though.

[glparr]

The Tropic Marin alk kit read 17, so the Salifert is in the ballgame. Did a 10-gal water change, which dropped the alk to 14. That's too fast. It'll be 5-gal at a time for a few days. That's the nice thing about small tanks (this is a 40 breeder), you can correct these problems with relative ease by doing water changes. Still really irritated that I did this.
Gary

[slapshot]

Gary rather than do water changes just let the all fall on it's own. Stop your dosing. High all isn't the end of the world but you need to bring them down slowly.

Water changes will do it too fast. My Alk has been high also as I reduced the number of sps with the eratication of my flat work problem. Basically the same problem you are having but I caught it at 11.

Don


Sent from my iPhone using taptalk

[glparr]

Thanks, Don. Yes, I definitely quit dosing! ;) That first water change dropped it way too fast. It's fallen naturally to 11. Waiting for it to get to 10, then will do a 5-gal. change. Corals are starting to show signs of opening. I fear I've lost my Chironephthya, but not giving up on it. I'll never make this mistake again. I'll make others, but not this one.
Gary