When is it time for a mandarin?

[legolas100]

Just finished setting up a 120 with my brother and we scored a massive amount of live rock and coral (see my sig for build thread). after adding the live rock etc i have noticed we have a lot of isopods scuttling about, no copepods though for whatever reason :hmm4: tried 3 lots of live rock for my 47 gal and never got any copepods so i give up! we also live in New Zealand so we can't buy them in a jar here like in the states.

now ive always loved mandarin fish, i think they are just amazing but i refuse to just dive in and buy one until both the tank and i am ready and certain i can keep one not just alive but well fed and happy!

ive done some reading on RC and the net and read that mandarins eat not only copepods but isopods as well, score! but how do you know when you have enough to sustain a mandarin? we have loads! all over the rocks and sand and back walls but i'm worried that the constant grazing of the mandarin will slowly deplete the numbers, we have no fuge but a sump chamber with some live rock, i'm not expecting anything to come out of that though.

so when is enough, enough? how does one know? Mandarin general thread!

cheers in advance for any help guys

[VacavilleFC3S]

i believe you mean amphipods not isopods. isopods are parasitic and usually bad

i've had a pair ocellated dragonets over 2 years now . as far as i fan tell they only eat "copepods" or other smaller pods, but amphipods are way to large for there little mouths. over time they might eventually start eating prepared foods but don't count on it happening anytime soon, it took my female a year before she would eat .5mm newlife spectrum

it's no surprise you haven't noticed copepods before there extremely tiny, bout half the size of a ant.


IMO i would wait till the tank has been setup atleast 6 months before trying to add any sort of dragonet. it's not just about having "pods" it's about having well established "colonies of pods" 1 dragonet can eat several hundred in 1 day

[FrankenReef]

A refugium would help alot too. If nothing else you could get a big HOB filter and put macro in that. Or....
Get the ORA dragonets that are eating pellets.

[legolas100]

i believe you mean amphipods not isopods. isopods are parasitic and usually bad

i've had a pair ocellated dragonets over 2 years now . as far as i fan tell they only eat "copepods" or other smaller pods, but amphipods are way to large for there little mouths. over time they might eventually start eating prepared foods but don't count on it happening anytime soon, it took my female a year before she would eat .5mm newlife spectrum

it's no surprise you haven't noticed copepods before there extremely tiny, bout half the size of a ant.


IMO i would wait till the tank has been setup atleast 6 months before trying to add any sort of dragonet. it's not just about having "pods" it's about having well established "colonies of pods" 1 dragonet can eat several hundred in 1 day

No, i did mean isopods, 'ive taken photos and i.d'd them on Chucks Addiction, the ones i have in my tank are called munnid isopods and are about the size of an ant fully grown, harmless herbivores, copepods can be seen in tanks and i know they are hard to see but they can be seen, and we don't have any, thanks for the input though

[legolas100]

A refugium would help alot too. If nothing else you could get a big HOB filter and put macro in that. Or....
Get the ORA dragonets that are eating pellets.

sounds good in theory but as i said we live in new zealand and there are strict importing laws with regards to livestock not to mention that most companies don't ship here,

thanks anyway

[legolas100]

anyone else out there?

[Saltyllama]

6 months is the general rule. I did it in 4 on a 46 gal with a wet/dry, but I was loaded with pods by then. Not to mention I watched the LFS guy feed it dionatchi pellets. Once it was in my tnak it took about 3 month's to start eating pellets again, but stayed fat and happy the entire time.

My first piece of advice... wait.

Unless you got some used rock from a funky system you WILL start noticing cope's at night. Otherwise it's just a waiting game.

Next thing is to get a small one, and ask the guy at the store to feed it in front of you. Like I said though, even that isn't a sure thing after it's in YOUR tank. Also, if it does take sinking pellets be sure to turn off all the powerheads and drop the sinking pellets directly above the sand so that they don't get eaten by other livestock on the way down.

Good luck!

Good luck!

[legolas100]

thanks saltyllama, like i said i def to not want to get one unless i know i can keep it happy, see too many people put livestock at risk or in poor conditions due to lack of research or impulse

[capecoral]

It sounds like the pods need to build up, just like in the wild?...

[legolas100]

thats correct but how does one gauge this? realistically you could have a matured tank but not have the populations to sustain a dragonet, variables like rock quantity, other predators such as clowns, lack of food etc.....

[cloak]

There is never a time for a mandarin fish if it's not eating prepared foods...

Why would a mandarin get a free pass? They are a beautiful fish, I'll give you that, but I sure as hell wouldn't buy a fish who didn't like a combination pizza every now & then. Know what I mean? ;)

[Mmckibben]

go to a local aquarium store and ask for some. I asked for aiptasia once. Don't worry it was for experimental reasons.

[Mmckibben]

Dont forget to give them time to populate. It might be good to put in a refugium like device. The reason to have a refugium isn't just for algae. It's also a refuge from predators. A few pices of live rock, bioballs, and a sand bed would be enough to grow a few copepods.

[Mmckibben]

you could also make a small aquarium that has only contains sand, live rock, and copepods. You could then every once in a wile place some of the copepods from this tank into your main display in order to maintain stable populations.

[lisafoster]

I waited 18 months

[Guygettnby]

i waited alittle over a year and it still demolished my pod population in about 6 months. mine ate prepaired foods as well but i just did not have the time to feed him more then once a day.

so to answe your question. i dont believe there is ever really a good time to put this fish in your tank. if you had a huge tank like 600g or so i am sure you would not have a problem after that tank had fully matured. but with you not being able to buy pods to repopulate your system i would hold off on buying the fish until you have the means to repopulate the tank. a second tank for breeding pods, a refugium or a reliable source to buy pods from.

[capecoral]

Yes I read that pods eat algae so maybe more algae means more pods.

[D-Nak]

+1 on what FrankenReef said... Now that ORA has captive bred Mandarins, you can pretty much get one anytime, assuming they're eating Nutrimar Ova or other prepared foods. I would definitely recommend a captive bred Mandarin over a WC one. Actually, if you're thinking about getting one, I think it would be irresponsible NOT to get a CB one.

[ritter6788]

I'm not really sold on these ORA mandarins, they still need to eat almost constantly. Not that I'm against them, any captive bred fish is great but I don't think you're goind to be able to feed 1 cube of frozen and day and have the mandarin survive. I think a big key is to have spaces that the mandarin can't get to like piles of rocks. Any tank that get's decimated of pods by a mandarin must have really open aquascaping that is easily accessable from all sides. A predator free refugium with macro and a display with hiding spaces for pods to multiply goes a long way. I just don't think that ORA mandarins are God's gift to mandarin keeping like every is saying. People have been getting mandarins to eat frozen and pellets for years and they still die.

[D-Nak]

ritter-- I think the fact that these aren't coming from the ocean is a good enough reason to get one versus a WC one. One still needs to understand the husbandry required to keep these alive, but these are unique in the sense that have been in captivity since day one, meaning they will more readily take food we can give them rather than being forced to forage on their own. Since they will most likely eat prepare foods provided to the other fish already, and if fed 2-3x a day, then they can spend the rest of the time foraging for pods and whatnot. This can lead to a larger pod population in contrast to a Mandarin that will only eat pods. With all fish that we buy, there is no guarantee that they will survive for many years -- I think the main point is that we are increasing their odds for survival.

[ritter6788]

ritter-- I think the fact that these aren't coming from the ocean is a good enough reason to get one versus a WC one. One still needs to understand the husbandry required to keep these alive, but these are unique in the sense that have been in captivity since day one, meaning they will more readily take food we can give them rather than being forced to forage on their own. Since they will most likely eat prepare foods provided to the other fish already, and if fed 2-3x a day, then they can spend the rest of the time foraging for pods and whatnot. This can lead to a larger pod population in contrast to a Mandarin that will only eat pods. With all fish that we buy, there is no guarantee that they will survive for many years -- I think the main point is that we are increasing their odds for survival.

I agree 100%. I just don't think it's a good idea to get people to think that they can buy an ORA mandarin and put it in a nano tank with no fuge and expect it to survive because they are going to feed it mysis twice a day. I'm not saying not to buy the captive bred over the WC but the requirements will have to be the same for either; large tank, refugium, loads of pods reproducing in the system. Even if the mandarin eats these prepared foods it will still be outcompeted by faster, more aggressive fish which can lead to overfeeding the tank to satisfy one mandarin. ANYTHING captive bred or aquacultured is great for our hobby.