my rice experiment

[kkil4life]

a couple of days ago, while doing some routine maintenance I accidently turned off the flow to my fuge.
so basically what happened was my fuge was completely cut off from the rest of my system.
suddenly I noticed GHA growing everywhere, the glass all dirty with stringy algae, the water a lil dirty and diatoms everywhere. testing No3 and Po4 showed close to zero in both instances, now understandlbly the algae was consuming all the nutrients, this is when I found out that my fuge was cut off.

reading the thread on RC about the rice made me want to try it out.
I will be using this thread to document whats happening.

alrighty then....here we go

I decided to use Japanese plain rice
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/a0017050.jpg

I ended up using 1 and a half cups
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/c0752999.jpg


in the reactor
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/c4e8482e.jpg


I hooked up the reactor to my system, but I just couldn't get the rice to tumble, so I left it in the highest flow possible
but look what my skimmer was upto within 5 mins
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/0d6d8021.jpg

yup, this is withing 5 mins
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/d64803fd.jpg


to show you what I will be up against......

this is around my powerhead, the part that I usually clean once a week.....look at all the algage thats formed in just 2-3 days that fuge was disconnected
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/48b841f0.jpg


this spot of GHA has always been there, but not as thick as now
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/a42586a1.jpg

my back glass is never this bad, as I usually clean it every week and it would look like this if I dont clean it for a whole month, but here it is after 2-3 days of no fuge
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/eff2deee.jpg


see the diatoms on the sandbed as well.....this has actually become real bad during the no fuge period
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/225ed502.jpg


from all these pics, I'm forced to believe that I have way too much nutrients bound up within the rocks and I need to do something about it rather than the normal water changes and cleaning the rocks.
thus the experiment with the rice.......
will test no3 and po4 numbers every couple of days to see what happens.....

[kkil4life]

oh and here is the skimmer after about 45-60mins after installing the rice reactor :)
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/bc9c6aa3.jpg

[HighlandReefer]

It would be interesting if you placed the rice in a container with rodi water for a few days and then take nitrate and phosphate readings on it. Just curious to see if any leaches out into rodi water. If it does leach out, then perhaps changing the rodi water and repeat to see what happens. :)

[kcooley]

what size powerhead are you using? any other ideas how to check how much and how fast nitrate and phos are released? would it be possible to use prime to denitrify the rice while soaking it? ive been following auroras rice thread and he was just kind of being sloppy about it. just using the rice to say he was more or less. without a reactor and optimized flow rates that is what i am getting out of his experiment.

[sterling18]

tagging a long to follow your progress

[icycoral]

looking forward to following your progress.

[artur]

This is the first time I hear about rice! What does it supoused tomdo? Reduce nitrats and phosphates? How come?

[rireuter]

it is being used as a carbon source like the bio-pellets, however the other "rice" thread states that rice obviously has a lot of other stuff in it that has raised some concern, this idea is still in the experimental stages :) but i envy all who are testing for us, thank you!!!

[jcolletteiii]

What are your initial NO3 and PO4 readings and what kits are you using?

EDIT: ...also, what are your 'normal' background NO3 and PO4 numbers when your fuge is operating and all is well?

[Reverend Reefer]

i hope this works! maybe in a couple months we'll start seeing RICE ROCKETS for sale at LFS. haha!

500$ will get u a RICE ROCKET reactor and a free bag of our patented German-made REEF RICE!!! i'm gunna buy the patent and the website now!

seriously though, i wonder how easily someone can get their hands on the "rice husks" or whatever they're called, might be more efficient...

[aurora]

This is awsome and looking forward to your progress. Your tank looks like it could benefit from some nutrient reduction. On the flip side, if the rice works too well and your nutrient drops down too quickly, you may see stress in your corals in the short term especially your nutrient-loving corals like ricordia and some brains. If that happens, I recommend turning off the rice cooker for a couple of days to give your livestock some time to adjust before proceeding.

[kkil4life]

It would be interesting if you placed the rice in a container with rodi water for a few days and then take nitrate and phosphate readings on it. Just curious to see if any leaches out into rodi water. If it does leach out, then perhaps changing the rodi water and repeat to see what happens. :)

interesting......will get on this asap

[kkil4life]

what size powerhead are you using? any other ideas how to check how much and how fast nitrate and phos are released? would it be possible to use prime to denitrify the rice while soaking it? ive been following auroras rice thread and he was just kind of being sloppy about it. just using the rice to say he was more or less. without a reactor and optimized flow rates that is what i am getting out of his experiment.

kcooley, I'm not using a separate powerhead, the flow is provided via a "T" in my return. I just realized I didn't post my tank details......

my tank is a 75g display with approx 30g in the fuge and sump. the fuge is close to 20g.
the return from my sump to tank is powered by a quietone 5000, which is approx 1200gph (too much for my tank) but I have it a T on it to the fuge and then T again back into the return chamber (so 2 Ts with 3 total outputs). now the output going back into the return section was just soft plumbed into the reactor and I can adjust the flow to reactor. I presume I'm getting at least 200gph into the reactor cuz even on max the rice does not tumble, it just sits there.

for nitrates and phos leaching from the rice, I will put some in RO water as well as some salt water and post up the results

[kkil4life]

tagging a long to follow your progress

looking forward to following your progress.


welcome aboard the rice train.....lol

[kkil4life]

it is being used as a carbon source like the bio-pellets, however the other "rice" thread states that rice obviously has a lot of other stuff in it that has raised some concern, this idea is still in the experimental stages :) but i envy all who are testing for us, thank you!!!

I envy the guys who get to use this if it all works out well......either way, RC has helped me so much, just thought I'd give back what I can......thanks everyone at RC

[kkil4life]

What are your initial NO3 and PO4 readings and what kits are you using?

EDIT: ...also, what are your 'normal' background NO3 and PO4 numbers when your fuge is operating and all is well?


my Po4 was always low (atleast thats what the test kits say), but I've been struggling with NO3.
about a few months ago I got some chaeto and put it in my fuge, upgraded my skimmer and got better lights. all these changes together brought my no3 below 10, always between 2 and 5. Since I changed my lights, I used to get a little algae, but not as bad as these pics on my glass which I used to scrape off. so I think the algae helped bring the no3 down as well......

so as far as getting real numbers, I cant do much since my algae is consuming all the nutrients, thats why I've posted the algae pics. those areas will not be cleaned during the rice testing time. this will show me how much of the algae dies off cuz of the rice.

[kkil4life]

This is awsome and looking forward to your progress. Your tank looks like it could benefit from some nutrient reduction. On the flip side, if the rice works too well and your nutrient drops down too quickly, you may see stress in your corals in the short term especially your nutrient-loving corals like ricordia and some brains. If that happens, I recommend turning off the rice cooker for a couple of days to give your livestock some time to adjust before proceeding.

aurora......since my levels are already pretty low, I dont see that being a problem.
will update this thread anyways......

[Haksar]

Good going kkil..keep us posted.

[elijaher]

Tagged alone give us a daily news on it whether it small or big I like to know.

[kkil4life]

Tagged alone give us a daily news on it whether it small or big I like to know.

ok a quick update.....skimmer has been going nuts since I put the rice in
I've emptied about 1 cup of skimate (light but a weird combination of green and yellow color)
I opened up the skimmer valve almost fully and its still producing skimmate
its half cup done since the last cleaning about 10 hours ago

I think u really need to watch the skimmer for the first couple of days, luckily no cloudiness or milkyness in the tank

btw, incase I didn't mention this before, I throughly washed the rice till it almost ran clear, so dont forget to do that

[elijaher]

Did you washed the rice in rodi water?

[icycoral]

Hey bud thanks for the welcome aboard :wave:
It was time to repack my reactor this weekend and after reading your thread and the other persons on rice reactors I decided to give it a try curiosity got the best of me. I have a 45 gal heavily stocked tank with 15 or so gal in sump. I have a makeshift fuge in the sump (which has done a fairly good job of maintaining my nutrients so far) but figured I would experiment a bit. I'm running a Tunze 9005 skimmer which doesn't skim very much until I prune my macro. I decided to start with 1/2 cup of long grain rice in a via aqua media reactor with a 200 gph pump and is running at a rapid tumble. upon introducing the rice all skimming action stopped even though I rinsed the rice very well. One thing I'm concerned about is my skimmer being large enough to remove the excess bacteria and bacterial waste that is produced. I am also a little nervous about the enrichment of the rice with vitamins but it can't be worse than the over dosing of essential elements I did when I setup my first tank lol. Besides if you don't try anything new how do you learn. I will not be testing for low range PO4 or NO3 I don't have photometers and don't think my liquid test kits are going to accurate enough to report to the forum. I will be keeping a close eye on my tank and a journal of any observations I make as far as algae growth both on the glass and in the fuge, condition of the rice, my orp levels(ozone is turned off for now), and coral response and coloration. I was wondering what type of skimmer are you running? Just curious. Thank you for your inspiration in trying somthing new. Looking forward to comparing our results.

[sneeyatch]

Interesting concept. It's the first time I've seen something about using rice as well...

I'll be keeping an eye on this too...

[thebanker]

If your skimmer was pulling out gunk within 5 minutes, I don't know if that's a good thing. :/

[kkil4life]

If your skimmer was pulling out gunk within 5 minutes, I don't know if that's a good thing. :/

firstly its very important to wash the rice properly and I have a feeling that I didn't was all of it fully and thats why the skimmer started going nuts in 5 mins
the output of the reactor is also just right next to the skimmer.....that could be another reason for it to react so fast

[thebanker]

That makes sense. As this rice thing evolves, we'll figure out what brand needs the least prep work before adding to a reactor.

[kkil4life]

banker, another thing to consider is that the rice does have some foreign elements that would normally not be in a reef tank OR that we normally dont know about.

wheres RANDY when u need him....lol
I'm sure he will have some valuable inputs on this

[kkil4life]

glad ur trying this as well icycoral.
about large grain rice, I dont really know but it would be nice if u could report ur success with it.

I decided to go with japanese rice as its short and is generally harder than the long rice.

did u get ur rice to tumble? I think I have way too much rice for it to tumble.
but either way, since ur rice is long grain vs my short grain, and ur tumbling the rice vs me not tumbling, I think its going to be interesting to see who is doing it right.
I meant both of us are roughly trying it out at the same time, so I guess we can compare our results directly.

I suggest u post ur results and experiences here as well so that we can keep all the information in on thread.

for PO4, I have a seachem kit, but I'm waiting on my hanna checker and will post my results with that once I have it.
for No3, I'm using a sailfert kit.

my skimmer is a reef octopus extreme 160

Hey bud thanks for the welcome aboard :wave:
It was time to repack my reactor this weekend and after reading your thread and the other persons on rice reactors I decided to give it a try curiosity got the best of me. I have a 45 gal heavily stocked tank with 15 or so gal in sump. I have a makeshift fuge in the sump (which has done a fairly good job of maintaining my nutrients so far) but figured I would experiment a bit. I'm running a Tunze 9005 skimmer which doesn't skim very much until I prune my macro. I decided to start with 1/2 cup of long grain rice in a via aqua media reactor with a 200 gph pump and is running at a rapid tumble. upon introducing the rice all skimming action stopped even though I rinsed the rice very well. One thing I'm concerned about is my skimmer being large enough to remove the excess bacteria and bacterial waste that is produced. I am also a little nervous about the enrichment of the rice with vitamins but it can't be worse than the over dosing of essential elements I did when I setup my first tank lol. Besides if you don't try anything new how do you learn. I will not be testing for low range PO4 or NO3 I don't have photometers and don't think my liquid test kits are going to accurate enough to report to the forum. I will be keeping a close eye on my tank and a journal of any observations I make as far as algae growth both on the glass and in the fuge, condition of the rice, my orp levels(ozone is turned off for now), and coral response and coloration. I was wondering what type of skimmer are you running? Just curious. Thank you for your inspiration in trying somthing new. Looking forward to comparing our results.

[icycoral]

Hey bud I didn't know that about the short grain rice being harder. Thank you for the invite to post my results in your thread going to see if I might be able to borrow a po4 checker from one of my club members as my super accurate API kits just won't cut it.

[kkil4life]

just decided to post up some more photos

some cyno around my zoas.....I dont remember it yesterday, but looks like its there
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/2e2215ed.jpg


heres a pic of my front glass looking at it thru the side glass, just to photodocument how many days it takes for algae to grow on the glass
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/1d629a65.jpg


todays skimmer pic....gonna clean this out in a bit
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/aab35c72.jpg


now heres the shocker......
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/225ed502.jpg
thats the same pic as on the first page.....I took that picture cuz I wanted to document the diatoms in the corner......
look at the same pic today
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/corner.jpg
if you look closely you will see the diatoms around the corner of the tank have cleared out, also just right above the mushrooms the diatoms have started to fade away....results too soon??
letws wait a few more days before we rejoice shall we.....

[kkil4life]

btw.....I HAVE NOT CLEANED ANY PART OF THE TANK.
I will only be cleaning glass, except for the portion near the powerhead which I will be taking pics of

[kkil4life]

and for all those wondering, all pics are taken with my iphone, so no flash no fancy anything, just plain ol pics
:)

[khaosinc]

Cool.. I have a reactor in the works as well... looking forward to joining all this rice fun..

I have detectable everything as I'm a compulsive overfeeder.. so it should be a good test.

[kkil4life]

Hey bud I didn't know that about the short grain rice being harder. Thank you for the invite to post my results in your thread going to see if I might be able to borrow a po4 checker from one of my club members as my super accurate API kits just won't cut it.

I really dont know the difference in short and long grain, but the reason I chose short grain was I thought I will be tumbling the rice and with longer grain its easier to break when its tumbling.....thats all

[kkil4life]

Cool.. I have a reactor in the works as well... looking forward to joining all this rice fun..

I have detectable everything as I'm a compulsive overfeeder.. so it should be a good test.

sounds good.....let us know when u start as well

[kkil4life]

just cleaned my skimmer cup about 5 mins ago, it seems to have calmed down a bit, but is still running on wet mode, I think it should be back to norma by tomorrow or maybe even day after


24h update
1.so far everything is looking ok, water is crystal clear, maybe a lil clearer than when I started.....no haze, no milky water
2.dino is starting to cut back
3.skimmer is still a lil nuts but better than yesterday, my valve is open only half now, compared to yesterdays close to full.
4.I've noticed cyno on 2 spots, but not sure if thats new or I just missed it
5.all tank inhabitants are doing fine and good
6.I forgot to look at my ph monitor, but just checked and everything looks stable, ph at exactly 8.0 (right for me at this time of day).

is there any other information that anyone would like me to record?

[elijaher]

Keep close eyes on cyno I hope this is not a side effect as other carbon dosing.

[aurora]

I suspect that people are getting an uptick in their skimmer activity immediately after the rice addition from the fact that your rice is DRY-milled and you have a fine coat of rice powder coating each grain. You can wash the rice to remove most of this powder but it also remove the vitamins also. Since rice has a small amount of protein in it, your protein does what it's supposed to and removed it.

[Fishamatank]

I hope this works out for you, but I can't see this going well. Look forward to more results...

[icycoral]

I suspect that people are getting an uptick in their skimmer activity immediately after the rice addition from the fact that your rice is DRY-milled and you have a fine coat of rice powder coating each grain. You can wash the rice to remove most of this powder but it also remove the vitamins also. Since rice has a small amount of protein in it, your protein does what it's supposed to and removed it.

That's what I thought was going to happen but my Tunze skimmer lost it's foam head when I put the rice in. Last night after twelve hours the skimmer had foam and today at 20 hrs after rice I'm getting wet skim. I rinsed the heck out of the rice before adding it.

[Genetics]

Doesn't the rice become a mush after a few days? How do you keep it contained in the reactor at that point? Also, are you keeping track of your nitrates/phospates?

Wouldn't table sugar be a safer alternative?

[kkil4life]

I hope this works out for you, but I can't see this going well. Look forward to more results...

why would you say that??

[kkil4life]

That's what I thought was going to happen but my Tunze skimmer lost it's foam head when I put the rice in. Last night after twelve hours the skimmer had foam and today at 20 hrs after rice I'm getting wet skim. I rinsed the heck out of the rice before adding it.

I dont know about the tunze skimmer, is it over/underpowered for ur tank?
and maybe cuz u rinsed the rice out much better than me ur didnt immediately see the skim......but it does wet skim for almost a day

[kkil4life]

Doesn't the rice become a mush after a few days? How do you keep it contained in the reactor at that point? Also, are you keeping track of your nitrates/phospates?

Wouldn't table sugar be a safer alternative?

waiting for the hanna po4 checker to come before I test the po4.......nitrates are almost undetectable because of the algae......thats why I'm taking pics of the algae to see how long it takes to die away

sugar would just dissolve almost immediately.......

[Fishamatank]

why would you say that??
It was my opinion, you are trying something that is a little "out there", and are doing things a little backwards. You've already introduced the rice and are now checking if it leaches NO3 or PO4 after it's already in the tank. I hope it works, but I highly doubt the next big thing in reef keeping will be a "rice reactor". I hope it works out for you, it was not my intent to offend you, but you are introducing a lot of unknowns into your system.

[icycoral]

The Tunze 9005 skimmer I run is rated for 158gal with a very light bio load and 58 gal with a high bio-load and corals. So I'm prob around the middle of the field as far as over/under power.

[noahm]

It was my opinion, you are trying something that is a little "out there", and are doing things a little backwards. You've already introduced the rice and are now checking if it leaches NO3 or PO4 after it's already in the tank. I hope it works, but I highly doubt the next big thing in reef keeping will be a "rice reactor". I hope it works out for you, it was not my intent to offend you, but you are introducing a lot of unknowns into your system.

The research is already out there as far as rice hulls reducing nitrates in wastewater treatment. It is not much of a stretch to try it in the reef. As to whether the phosphorous in the rice is problematic, or just in a benign form is still up in the air, as well as whether whole grain rice is as/less/more effective than the agricultural waste product hulls. If it wasn't for people like the OP, stuff like carbon dosing would never have been tried at all and now it is a mainstay for many reefers.

[kkil4life]

It was my opinion, you are trying something that is a little "out there", and are doing things a little backwards. You've already introduced the rice and are now checking if it leaches NO3 or PO4 after it's already in the tank. I hope it works, but I highly doubt the next big thing in reef keeping will be a "rice reactor". I hope it works out for you, it was not my intent to offend you, but you are introducing a lot of unknowns into your system.

haha, didnt meant it like that bro.
I just wanted to know if u had more information than me regarding this as it would be helpful for me as well as anyone else interested in trying this out.
I didn't mean to come across like that
:)

[kkil4life]

The research is already out there as far as rice hulls reducing nitrates in wastewater treatment. It is not much of a stretch to try it in the reef. As to whether the phosphorous in the rice is problematic, or just in a benign form is still up in the air, as well as whether whole grain rice is as/less/more effective than the agricultural waste product hulls. If it wasn't for people like the OP, stuff like carbon dosing would never have been tried at all and now it is a mainstay for many reefers.

exactly bro.....and if the rice doesn't work, my next experiment will be with Mcdonalds beef patty in a reactor
lol
as long as I dont see any ill effects I'm willing to proceed with this.....

[Toadally]

A "Big Mac" reactor! I can dig it! lol

[elijaher]

At least it started from the beginning it's not he saying hey I have been using rice for years.Then coming up with all kind of claims. One question rice user have consider using any bacteris to seed the rice?

[kkil4life]

At least it started from the beginning it's not he saying hey I have been using rice for years.Then coming up with all kind of claims. One question rice user have consider using any bacteris to seed the rice?

I've considered dosing bacteria, but we really dont get anything good like mb7 here. I might go around and look whats available in a few days, but I know I can only get sera and tetra.

as for using rice, I have been using it for years, but to eat not for my reef....lol

[kkil4life]

quick update, I just went to check on my tank, and was going to feed my corals since the feeders come out at night, suddenly my tank is all milky, not too much but still noticeable.
so I checked my skimmer, its still skimming quiet a bit, but heres the thing, one side of the rice has started to tumble......I think the tumbling has caused it to turn milky, maybe I should put in another carbon bag? I haven't changed the flow or anything, but it started tumbling on its own. that too only the left side of the reactor, the right side is still pretty much sitting in one place.
will post updates in the morning......

[aurora]

The nice thing about rice and other carbohydrate grains is that most bacteria will readily use these natural carbo as fuel. The bacteria that are present in your tank water column and liverocks will do just as well as any bacterial cultures. You can try the same experiment with other carbohydrates such as a variety of pasta which probably will have even higher percent of carbohydrates relative to proteins if they can hold up to extended soaking in saltwater without becoming mush. IMO, there is nothing in rice that I wouldn't add to what I feed my fish anyhow.

[CalvinsTang]

exactly bro.....and if the rice doesn't work, my next experiment will be with Mcdonalds beef patty in a reactor
lol
as long as I dont see any ill effects I'm willing to proceed with this.....

Two all Reef patty's!!

lol, sorry couldnt resist

[><((((o>]

with all the rice it'll turn your tank turn into congee : /

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/Vista_Paradise/Misc/congee.jpg

[kkil4life]

The nice thing about rice and other carbohydrate grains is that most bacteria will readily use these natural carbo as fuel. The bacteria that are present in your tank water column and liverocks will do just as well as any bacterial cultures. You can try the same experiment with other carbohydrates such as a variety of pasta which probably will have even higher percent of carbohydrates relative to proteins if they can hold up to extended soaking in saltwater without becoming mush. IMO, there is nothing in rice that I wouldn't add to what I feed my fish anyhow.

just for everyone wondering.....here is a quick wiki on the contents of rice

Rice, white, long-grain, raw Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Energy 1,527 kJ (365 kcal)
Carbohydrates 79 g
Sugars 0.12 g
Dietary fiber 1.3 g
Fat 500 mg
Protein 7.12 g
Water 11.62 g
Thiamine (Vit. B1) 0.0701 mg (5%)
Riboflavin (Vit. B2) 0.0149 mg (1%)
Niacin (Vit. B3) 1.62 mg (11%)
Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.014 mg (20%)
Vitamin B6 0.164 mg (13%)
Folate (Vit. B9) 8 μg (2%)
Calcium 28 mg (3%)
Iron 0.80 mg (6%)
Magnesium 25 mg (7%)
Manganese 1.088 mg (54%)
Phosphorus 115 mg (16%)
Potassium 115 mg (2%)
Zinc 1.09 mg (11%)

[thebanker]

Any concerns about the high manganese content?

[icycoral]

An update on my tank. It's been about 30 hours since I brought the rice reactor online. I have one half cup of rice at a very rapid tumble. The orp in the reactor section of my sump has dropped from 321mv to 297mv and my tank water has a very slight milky look and I mean very very slight. I've never seen my skimmer so active it's pulling all sorts of light green skimmate. I haven't noticed any real reduction in the algea on the glass. All livestock seems fine, softies, lps, and sps are all fine. Everything has normal polyp extention and have not lost or gained any color. All filter feeders cucumbers, coco worms, and feather dusters appear normal. Over all I belive I am starting to see a slight bacterial bloom similar to what some people useing bio pellets see in the first few days if they have high nutrient levels. So far so good. :thumbsup:

[kkil4life]

heres a morning update

all the rice has started to tumble,l so I guess around 200gph should be enough for tumbling the rice.....
but my water got cloudly after the rice started to tumble....
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/cf6cd8c5.jpg


this is what the corner looked like yesterday
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/corner.jpg

and this is what it looks like now
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/d3867b6e.jpg

skimmer is still skimming wetish.....but becoming more normal now

[kkil4life]

Any concerns about the high manganese content?

manganese is present in our tanks, infact we do dose it at time, but the actual content in our tank vs the content in the rice.....I really dont know

but since its just a cup or so of rice, I don't think we need to worry about it giving off too much manganese

if u do the math, 1 cup of rice is less than 100g, so technically you will have less than 1mg of maganese to worry about in 100g of system volume
you add more than this with your iron and maganese additive
:)

[kkil4life]

48 hour update

1.water has turned hazy, infact its cleared up a little from the morning
2.rice started tumbling without increasing the flow or any further changes to the reactor, this either means that the rice has been partially consumed, or the heavy particles of the rice has been skimmed out making the rice easier to tumble.
3.dino is somewhat the same
4.cyno is starting grow more, but very very slowly (either that or I didnt check the cyno properly before starting this experiment).
5.all tank inhabitants are good, fish are healthy, corals are fully opened if not extending more than usual
6.ph is 7.95-7.97, so thats normal

[kkil4life]

is there anything else other than no3 and po4 that you guys want me to test for or watch out for?
po4 will be tested with the hanna checker as soon as it arrives
no3 will be tested within a few mins

[kkil4life]

I've been reading thru the threads of bio-pellets and it seems that people run their GFO along with the bio pellets for a couple of weeks.....oooppsss I completely took off my gfo when I started the RC reactor (new name for the RiCe reactor :) ), should I just throw in some gfo?

[noahm]

Some people do, some don't. Some pellets are touted as being better at removing PO4, while others don't seem to be making that claim. It is so early in the craze, that the sales pitches haven't really been sorted out from fact. I would run it the way you are, unless you start to see numbers going bad fast. Otherwise, you will get even less clear results on the rice experiment.

[kkil4life]

Some people do, some don't. Some pellets are touted as being better at removing PO4, while others don't seem to be making that claim. It is so early in the craze, that the sales pitches haven't really been sorted out from fact. I would run it the way you are, unless you start to see numbers going bad fast. Otherwise, you will get even less clear results on the rice experiment.

sure, just call me guniea pig......lol
I guess ur right about the results being uneven if I use GFO now, lets see how things shape up.....

[kkil4life]

interesting......will get on this asap

highlandreefer, sorry didn't get this done yet, will do it today for sure

[kkil4life]

I just checked my current po4 and no3.......
since my po4 kit was almost over I couldn't get a proper reading but it seemed very light colored and as close to zero as I could tell
no pic since it was difficult to get the color

NO3.....
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/0d123f88.jpg

it was difficult to get the pic to show the right color, but its 2.5

[kkil4life]

if you see the chart it shows 25, but I was using the LOW range in the above pic so its actually 2.5ppm of no3

[RichConley]

It was my opinion, you are trying something that is a little "out there", and are doing things a little backwards. You've already introduced the rice and are now checking if it leaches NO3 or PO4 after it's already in the tank. I hope it works, but I highly doubt the next big thing in reef keeping will be a "rice reactor". I hope it works out for you, it was not my intent to offend you, but you are introducing a lot of unknowns into your system.

SO?

Are you of the opinion that putting a whole bunch of beads full of plasticizers in your tank is safe? Rice seems much safer to me.

[kkil4life]

SO?

Are you of the opinion that putting a whole bunch of beads full of plasticizers in your tank is safe? Rice seems much safer to me.

This is a subject that this thread aims at solving.
I'm sure the manufacturers of the pellets know what's good and what's not for a reef, but with the rice we have all natural product with MAYBE added chemicals that we don't know about. Tha why we need to wash the rice throughly first.

And to answer ur question, by the end of this experiment I'll be able to tell u if the rice is indeed effective as a solid sourc of carbon.

[thebanker]

SO?

Are you of the opinion that putting a whole bunch of beads full of plasticizers in your tank is safe? Rice seems much safer to me.

The polymer beads we put into reactors have proven to be more inert in salt water than the rice, and are not covered in vitamins or rice dust as a result of processing. It seems like washing the rice is a MUST for this filtration method.

FWIW, I occasionally use IO liquid polymer for C dosing, and it works very well.

And if you think rice is 100% natural because it's food, watch the movie "Food, Inc." and then tell me what you think.

[Fishamatank]

SO?

Are you of the opinion that putting a whole bunch of beads full of plasticizers in your tank is safe? Rice seems much safer to me.

Absolutely...

[Allmost]

I dont like this, first i had to share my vodka and now I gotta share my rice too ? lol

sorry that was a joke, lol,. just wanted to follow up here :)

nice experiment.

[kkil4life]

The polymer beads we put into reactors have proven to be more inert in salt water than the rice, and are not covered in vitamins or rice dust as a result of processing. It seems like washing the rice is a MUST for this filtration method.

FWIW, I occasionally use IO liquid polymer for C dosing, and it works very well.

And if you think rice is 100% natural because it's food, watch the movie "Food, Inc." and then tell me what you think.

washing the rice is NOT A MUST, but so far with what we're doing we have all washed it to avoid the dust ect getting into our tanks. when you wash the rice you will see that water turns milky almost immediately, this shows that there is a lot of dust/coating. the question is, is this dust/coating useful or harmful? I really dont know. but in the case of carbon, we rinse/wash it in water to get rid of the carbon dust just cuz we dont want it in the tank. infact carbon ash/dust at times is better for our tank. In the same way I washed/rinsed the rice.

is Rice 100% natural.....lol, do I really need to answer that? even if it was, they add all kinds of stuff just to preserve it in the package......but I can tell u this......whatever is in rice, is NOT harmful to humans, and in theory is not harmful to the reef......

[kkil4life]

Absolutely...

lol.....and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I just hope I'm able to prove u wrong
:)

[kkil4life]

I dont like this, first i had to share my vodka and now I gotta share my rice too ? lol

sorry that was a joke, lol,. just wanted to follow up here :)

nice experiment.

if this works out, image the purists coming in and saying, "Tangs prefer Italian rice, but if ur going FOWLR u might as well use regular rice".....lol

[thebanker]

Fish from the red sea prefer a Middle Eastern, long-grain rice. Try basmati, or possibly jasmine. While it's hot, add a good amount of butter, and toss it lightly with some powdered sumac. Once the butter and sumac are nicely blended, add the mixture to your rice reactor at a slow tumble.

[DJREEF]

This is a subject that this thread aims at solving.
I'm sure the manufacturers of the pellets know what's good and what's not for a reef, but with the rice we have all natural product with MAYBE added chemicals that we don't know about. Tha why we need to wash the rice throughly first.

And to answer ur question, by the end of this experiment I'll be able to tell u if the rice is indeed effective as a solid sourc of carbon.

......or just go with a rice that's USDA certified organic. You can avoid a lot of potential problems concerning additives by going that route.

DJ

[kkil4life]

......or just go with a rice that's USDA certified organic. You can avoid a lot of potential problems concerning additives by going that route.

DJ

organic rice is another route, but even organic rice might have something thats not reefsafe......just cuz its safe for human consumption does not mean that its safe for the reef

[RichConley]

The polymer beads we put into reactors have proven to be more inert in salt water than the rice

By who?

[DJREEF]

organic rice is another route, but even organic rice might have something thats not reefsafe......just cuz its safe for human consumption does not mean that its safe for the reef

True, but if something unsafe is there then it would be there because it's inherently within the structure of the rice grain, and not because it was added.

DJ

[Stuart60611]

True, but if something unsafe is there then it would be there because it's inherently within the structure of the rice grain, and not because it was added.

DJ

Never mind. Misunderstood your post.

[kkil4life]

True, but if something unsafe is there then it would be there because it's inherently within the structure of the rice grain, and not because it was added.

DJ

that doesnt make a difference.......
added or not added does not make a difference if it is harmful......but for example if regular rice had copper and organic rice didn't then it would make a difference.

the key point here is regardless of whats added or not added, or whats natural or whats not, is that it has to be reef safe

[DJREEF]

that doesnt make a difference.......
added or not added does not make a difference if it is harmful......but for example if regular rice had copper and organic rice didn't then it would make a difference.

the key point here is regardless of whats added or not added, or whats natural or whats not, is that it has to be reef safe

Re-read what I wrote. Slowly.:D

DJ

[kkil4life]

Re-read what I wrote. Slowly.:D

DJ

lol......my bad bro....lol

[NoBigDeal]

By who?

www.google.com

[Just2Many]

So I'm following the thread to the best of my ability... And So ....
SO far no real improvement but no negative yet either?
Also would hanging rice be similar to hanging GFO?

[icycoral]

So I'm following the thread to the best of my ability... And So ....
SO far no real improvement but no negative yet either?
Also would hanging rice be similar to hanging GFO?

Not exactly gfo absorbs phosphates but using rice as a solid carbon source would allow a bacterial culture to grow on the the rice grains this bacteria consumes phosphates and nitrates along with carbon from the rice and is much more efficient than media like gfo it will hopefully last longer than gfo and the bacteria waste or mulm will feed the corals in your tank you use a reactor to tumble the rice which blows the mulm off the grains hopefully this experiment works as rice is cheaper and more availible than these new bio pellets on the market and lastly I have noticed no negative or positive effects of using rice as a solid carbon source however it will take some time for the bacteria to fully colonize the rice that is when I expect to see some results about one week into the experiment

[kkil4life]

quick morning update

water is sill a little hazy/cloudy, but all tank inhabitants seem to be doing good.
I haven't had to clean my front glass in 3 days that I started this experiment, that is there is no algae buildup on the glass so far. usually I get some sort of algae buildup in about 2-3 days. I guess I need to wait another day to see what happens.
btw, the skimmate stinks like crazy

[kkil4life]

www.google.com

google says a lot of this........
the biopellets have NOT proven anything yet since they are so new.
Yes they do work, but we dont know what effect they will have long term.
PLUS, at least in rice we know what we have in rice, but the bio-pellets, we dont even know what they are made up of other than "they are bio-degradable plastic".

[kkil4life]

So I'm following the thread to the best of my ability... And So ....
SO far no real improvement but no negative yet either?
Also would hanging rice be similar to hanging GFO?

if you've been reading the thread, you will see pics of before and after as a daily update.
there have been no negative effects so far, other than the haze/milky water, but this seems to happen even with the bio-pellets. AND the cyno, that was either there (which I didn't see before), or it just started. on a side note, the cyno does not seem to be expanding.....will post more on this later.

for the positives, I dont have to clean algae on my glass so often, no3 and po4 are still pretty low, diatoms are starting to die back. so I am seeing some positive effects. PLUS its just been 3 days, so its too soon to say anything.

[kkil4life]

Not exactly gfo absorbs phosphates but using rice as a solid carbon source would allow a bacterial culture to grow on the the rice grains this bacteria consumes phosphates and nitrates along with carbon from the rice and is much more efficient than media like gfo it will hopefully last longer than gfo and the bacteria waste or mulm will feed the corals in your tank you use a reactor to tumble the rice which blows the mulm off the grains hopefully this experiment works as rice is cheaper and more availible than these new bio pellets on the market and lastly I have noticed no negative or positive effects of using rice as a solid carbon source however it will take some time for the bacteria to fully colonize the rice that is when I expect to see some results about one week into the experiment

hey icycoral, hows ur tank? any haze with the rice? any cyno?
is the algae starting to cut back?

[361 m sq km]

Subscribed to this very interesting discussion.

Hopefully, one day we Thai, as one of the biggest exporter of rice in the world, will be able to swap our rice for your Bubble Kings and Vortech, literally! ;)

[kkil4life]

Subscribed to this very interesting discussion.

Hopefully, one day we Thai, as one of the biggest exporter of rice in the world, will be able to swap our rice for your Bubble Kings and Vortech, literally! ;)

lol.....I dont mind trading some rice for a vortech
lol

[361 m sq km]

@kkil4life,

How many kilo of premium Thai Jasmine rice do you want for an MP40 ES? lol

[thebanker]

By who?

Biopellets are the proven technology (relative to rice). In the other rice thread, several other posters commented on rice having various powders, vitamins, and even rice dust covered on them from processing. Biopellets require a rinse, but we know that they aren't being sprinkled arbitrarily with vitamins.

And in this thread, the OP talks about the addition of rice making his skimmer start to pull out gunk within 5 minutes of adding rice. Something on or in the rice is leaching into the water, at least in the short term. I should've clarified my statement that the NP biopellets are more inert in the short term.

Long term, we don't know.

[kkil4life]

@kkil4life,

How many kilo of premium Thai Jasmine rice do you want for an MP40 ES? lol

lol.....I meant I'll GIVE the rice and TAKE the vortech
lol

[kkil4life]

quick pic update
heres what it looked like yesterday
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/d3867b6e.jpg

heres what it looks like today
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/3342830b.jpg

[kkil4life]

Biopellets are the proven technology (relative to rice). In the other rice thread, several other posters commented on rice having various powders, vitamins, and even rice dust covered on them from processing. Biopellets require a rinse, but we know that they aren't being sprinkled arbitrarily with vitamins.

And in this thread, the OP talks about the addition of rice making his skimmer start to pull out gunk within 5 minutes of adding rice. Something on or in the rice is leaching into the water, at least in the short term. I should've clarified my statement that the NP biopellets are more inert in the short term.

Long term, we don't know.

theres no arguing that the bio-pellets are doing what they claim. but as far as rice goes, the added vitamin, or even rice dust could be BENEFICIAL for the reef or maybe its not. thats what I'm trying to prove here. Rather than be skeptical, if we all look at this just as something interesting maybe we will come out with something much more useful than the bio-pellets.

for example, if we know that the rice dust is bad, but we know that some sort of acid wash will get rid of it and further help the rice pull down no3 and po4.....then y not?
I'm just leaving my door open to all sorts of suggestions in the hope that we will come to a conclusive evidence that rice could/couldn't work.

[icycoral]

Well it's been a little over 60 hours since I brought my rice reactor online at 2:00pm est. 7-17-10. The haze in my water is pretty much undetectable. I haven't noticed a real decline in the algae on my glass. I have no cyno in my tank. All livestock appear normal, corals have same coloration, and polyp extention. All softies and lps show no changes. All filters feeders and clams normal. All water params nominal

SG 1.026
Ph 8.1 (normal for night)
Ammo 0
trites 0
trates 0 undetectible
PO4 0 undetectible
Mag 1380 +/- 5
Kh 9
Calc 440-460
Orp 287mV (320-340 normal)

Over all, my skimmer is the most active I have ever seen it however there is no coating on the surface of the water in my sump so I belive it is not overloaded. I have noticed a couple small pieces of rice in the reactor have broken, I believe it is from the very rapid tumble of the rice in my reactor and will continue to keep a close eye on this. Also the rice is begining to turn brown. I know that this experiment is very controversial and considered "out there", however I can only imagine the comments the first person to try vodka dosing heard. I would like to add that at the first sign of trouble I am prepared to take the rice reactor offline, do an emergency water change and run a reactor filled with activated carbon.

[kkil4life]

Well it's been a little over 60 hours since I brought my rice reactor online at 2:00pm est. 7-17-10. The haze in my water is pretty much undetectable. I haven't noticed a real decline in the algae on my glass. I have no cyno in my tank. All livestock appear normal, corals have same coloration, and polyp extention. All softies and lps show no changes. All filters feeders and clams normal. All water params nominal

SG 1.026
Ph 8.1 (normal for night)
Ammo 0
trites 0
trates 0 undetectible
PO4 0 undetectible
Mag 1380 +/- 5
Kh 9
Calc 440-460
Orp 287mV (320-340 normal)

Over all, my skimmer is the most active I have ever seen it however there is no coating on the surface of the water in my sump so I belive it is not overloaded. I have noticed a couple small pieces of rice in the reactor have broken, I believe it is from the very rapid tumble of the rice in my reactor and will continue to keep a close eye on this. Also the rice is begining to turn brown. I know that this experiment is very controversial and considered "out there", however I can only imagine the comments the first person to try vodka dosing heard. I would like to add that at the first sign of trouble I am prepared to take the rice reactor offline, do an emergency water change and run a reactor filled with activated carbon.


sounds like a good plan u have there, but I dont think u'll need it. :)
my rice has got a very slight tint of yellow, but not browning at all. regarding the rice breaking, I dont think my rice has broken, but that could also be because I'm using short grain vs ur long grain.

[kkil4life]

highlandreefer, as promised
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/c560e451.jpg

rice in a bottle of RO water. will let it sit for 24 hrs and test for no3 and po4 (if I can get a po4 kit soon).

icycoral, can you try the same as well?

[kkil4life]

the water in the bottle is a little hazy because I decided not to fully wash it, it was washed, but not a lot
I wanted to see if the rice dust has anything to do with the po4/no3

[kkil4life]

for your viewing pleasure........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KJZEYFYUiY

rice reactor online
:)

[Fishamatank]

Good lord, do you have generator running your tank, lol???

[kkil4life]

Good lord, do you have generator running your tank, lol???

haha, its really not that loud, the pumps are actually very quiet, its just that the water falling from the fuge into the return section that can be heard when the cabinet is closed.

[kkil4life]

72 hour update

everything seems fine, other than the haze but there are few points that I've noted.

1.no3 is stable at aroun 2.5ppm, this is what my no3 was before this experiment.
2.po4 is also very close to zero, again this is the same as before the experiment. but the difference here is I'm no longer running GFO.
3.dino is ever so slightly less
4.cyno is growning, but at a very very slow rate, the last time I dosed vodka, cyno took over my trank in a day or two
5.fish are perfectly fine, corals are good. LPS like my candy cane are more extended than normal. torch and frogspawns are the same as before (they had good extension).
6.skimmer is still skimming like a champ, and its really starting to stink when I just open up the cabinet
7.all other parameters are normal and no real changes.
8.One major difference is that GHA on certain parts is turning brown and dieing off (only noted on my powerhead), other parts its getting loose from the rock and disappearing, and some parts its turning white and dieing.
9.my class is no longer getting coated with algae like before, its been 3 days and no issues with it. BUT I am getting a white film on the glass, I presume this is because of the bacterial bloom that I'm experiencing right now.
10. this is the second day of the haze, and I think its reached its peak and will go away within a day or two.
11. lastly, my chaeto is starting to show some brownish edges, I'm presuming that it is not getting enough nutrients.

[kkil4life]

I've decided to pull out some algae from trouble spots and see if it regrows back or I remain algae free, plus the nutrients will help my chaeto
:)

[kkil4life]

update
I havent pulled out the algae yet, but will do that either today or tomorrow.

I just cleaned the skimmer cup, and I think the skimmer cup should be cleaned every 12-15 hours or so at least for the first few days. even though my cup was not full, the skimmate was getting really dark and nasty and it smelled really bad.....so at this point I think its better to skim wet and clean cup often

[kkil4life]

quick update

my chaeto is definitely dieing since the edges are becoming brownish and starting to die off, I presume this is because there isnt enough nutrients for it to grow......definitely a good sign, although I would like to keep some chaeto for my pods to hide

[thebanker]

kkil4life - I don't intend to say that the rice will not work or sound like a jerky nay-sayer.

As an alternative to biopellets, rice makes sense as a carbon source. I wanted to convey the idea that there could be unforseen variables with rice decomposition, since they are plant seeds and not uniformly homogenous plastic pellets. There are layers of membranes, cell walls, and various complex carbohydrates to contend with, versus a single mass of polymer.

And if this works long term, I may jump on the rice-wagon too. And like I said before, props to you, icycoral, and aurora for testing this out for the rest of us.

[kkil4life]

kkil4life - I don't intend to say that the rice will not work or sound like a jerky nay-sayer.

As an alternative to biopellets, rice makes sense as a carbon source. I wanted to convey the idea that there could be unforseen variables with rice decomposition, since they are plant seeds and not uniformly homogenous plastic pellets. There are layers of membranes, cell walls, and various complex carbohydrates to contend with, versus a single mass of polymer.

And if this works long term, I may jump on the rice-wagon too. And like I said before, props to you, icycoral, and aurora for testing this out for the rest of us.

banker, no offence taken. its always better to have everyones opinion.
like I said before, this experiment is to prove if rice is a sustainable source of carbon dosing to reduce N and P.
if it works, we'll call it "KkiLing N+P method", if it doesn't atleast all of us tried something new
:)

[kkil4life]

quick update
tank is getting cloudier, and I think this will last atleast a few more days
the skimmer chamber of the sump has a think film on top......looks like this is all the same as the bio-pellets

[elijaher]

Thanks for the update.

[kkil4life]

I turned the flow down in my reactor to push more thru my chiller as they run on the same pump.
this was completely unrelated and just done to increase efficiency of the chiller.
the rice is still tumbling, although now its more a gentle tumble.
will update more in the morning

[icycoral]

Hi y'all here's an update on my experience with the rice reactor experiment. Well it's been about 80 hrs since I've brought my rice reactor online. Today I noticed a substantial decrease in the algae growth on my glass, next to nothing compared to the past few days. Skimmer is very active still pulling some pretty smelly skimmate(before this experiment it really didn't pull much). Still not seeing any coating on the surface of the water in my sump. My tank water is just about crystal clear again. The rice has not broken up anymore and has stayed the same color from yesterday. This morning I swear I noticed a sweet ricey smell coming from my tank (no joke). All water params still normal ph was a Little higher today 8.2-8.3 and orp 280mV. As for my tank inhabitants I noticed four disturbing things today. My basket starfish (which I absolutely loved) was in real bad shape this morning, it looked like it's legs were melting off. By the end of the day I moved it to another tank as a last ditch effort to save it, but I am sure this will be the last time I saw my basket star alive. Going to miss my friend very much :( . The other critter I lost was a stomatella snail. I think the losses were due to the high levels of bacteria that are probably present in my water. Also today I noticed my devils hand leather didn't have any polyp extention and my green milli had poor polyp extention. The leather may be getting ready to shed (I hope). And the millie which I nicknamed the wookie because it had the crazyist polyp extention I've seen I can't explain. All the other corals, snails, crabs, tube worms, shrimp, and clams seem fine. Actually a few corals are showing better polyp extension like my tri-color. Lps and softies appear normal also. If I experience any more loss of livestock (I really mean friends) I will be ending this experiment (sadly)

The basket star 2 months ago, I will miss him :sad2:
<a href="http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/?action=view&current=02543674.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/02543674.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>
The stomatella today, his name was speedy:
<a href="http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/?action=view&current=cf1b6a0b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/cf1b6a0b.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

[elijaher]

Sorry about your lost.

[khaosinc]

hate loosing things in a tank you've had long enough to grow attached to...

hope theres no more troubles w/ this experiment as I'm looking forward to trying it myself.

From what I've read so far, I suspect rice is quite a bit more biologically available than the pellets so it may actually take quite a bit less. It seems at least 2 of the systems that have tried it at least visabely had dramatic nutrient system drops. I'm waiting for my salt to show up before I start mine. My system is about 100 gallons low right now as I ran out of salt filling the 300.

[kkil4life]

icycoral, u said that ur skimmer wasn't pulling much gunk out before this experiment.
I think ur tahnk maight have been oxygen deprived.
I think u need to add an extra airstone or powerhead with venturi in ur sump or something of that sort. in all carbon dosing, you need to have very good oxygenation.

I have approx 5000gph flow from my powerheads, plus my quietone 5000 return approx 1200gph, plus my skimmer, plus another powehead in the fuge, also my tank is open top.

I suggest u do something about flow ASAP.

[kkil4life]

hate loosing things in a tank you've had long enough to grow attached to...

hope theres no more troubles w/ this experiment as I'm looking forward to trying it myself.

From what I've read so far, I suspect rice is quite a bit more biologically available than the pellets so it may actually take quite a bit less. It seems at least 2 of the systems that have tried it at least visabely had dramatic nutrient system drops. I'm waiting for my salt to show up before I start mine. My system is about 100 gallons low right now as I ran out of salt filling the 300.

did u try rice or bio-pellets?

[elijaher]

Some reefers had lost fish using mb7 cause of oxygen depleted.

[kkil4life]

quick update

water is clearing up and is just a little hazy, looks kind of like when kalk water settles down.
all tank inhabitants are doing good.
shrooms and leather are shows signs of low nutrients
hair algae and other algae are slowly truing brown adn comming loose and dieing
chaeto is definitely dieing
caulerpa is not doing too good either
skimmer is still pulling out some nasty gunk
po4 levels will be updated later today

on a side note, will be testing the po4 and no3 levels on my RO water with rice

glass does not have algae growing on it, infact theres a thin layer of bacteria growing on the glass

will update with pics in a bit

[kkil4life]

Some reefers had lost fish using mb7 cause of oxygen depleted.

exactly what I thought as well, and that why icycoral needs to increase flow
or provide additional areation

[khaosinc]

did u try rice or bio-pellets?


I'm planning on playing with the rice, but I have a skimmer upgrade coming first, and at the moment I'm out of salt (already ordered) so its on hold until A couple other things are done first.

[kkil4life]

day 4 update

I'm glad to say that everything is good, no tank inhabitants showing any signs of stress or any form of reaction to the rice.

haze starting to clear up this morning
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/812bd52b.jpg


look at the gha dieing on the powerhead
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/6d4e4857.jpg

another pic of the powehead
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/5899e361.jpg


yesterdays pic of the corner
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/3342830b.jpg

and todays pic of the corner
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/fa065683.jpg


you can see that the dino is almost gone, but cyno was starting up. now even the cyno is dieing away

[kkil4life]

quick update

I've begun to clean my powehead and other areas which I know had gha and other algae to see if it grows again there or remains clean
my class is almost spotless with the exception of white bacteria film, but that should fade away in a day or two
my water is becoming much more clearer
skimmer is still going nuts, well not so much, but is still pulling out massive amount of skimmate, almost a cup every day

is anyone else planning on getting on the rice wagon?

[icycoral]

I hear ya on the aeration but think I have enough flow and circulation. I have a 45 gal 25x18x25h tank w Mag7 return to tank with no tee offs to other equipment, two koralia evo 750 gph and two koralia 1's on a wavemaker, and a koralia 1 in sump. My tank is open top and to help with cooling i have a small fan blowing across the top of it. I do have a tiny powerhead with a venturi I can toss in my sump. I have an oxygen test kit I will try out today. Just going to keep a close eye on things today.

[noahm]

It is the bacterial blooms that can wipe out the oxygen supply temporarily, so flow is not necessarily a good judgement of O2, though it does help. As to the basket star, they are bound to dismantle themselves after 6-12 months in all but the most ideal situations. Probably just the stick that broke the camel (basket star's) back.

[icycoral]

It is the bacterial blooms that can wipe out the oxygen supply temporarily, so flow is not necessarily a good judgement of O2, though it does help. As to the basket star, they are bound to dismantle themselves after 6-12 months in all but the most ideal situations. Probably just the stick that broke the camel (basket star's) back.
Dismantle themselves??? I did not know about this I couldn't find too much info on them can you plz tell me more. It looked like it was literally falling apart like taking Legos apart. As for my leather that didn't open it looks shiney like it is going to shed. Still haven't figured out what happend to the stomatella snail but today there are snail eggs all over my glass so I'm think g my water quality isn't too bad. Will try out the oxygen test kit a bit later.

[coralnut99]

Along for a ride on the rice wagon. Many thanks to the folks trying this and all the work that goes into documenting it for the rest of us. I'm more than a bit perplexed that the rice hasn't broken down yet. I guess the water temp. just isn't high enough to cause it to break down the way you would expect it to after cooking. Given the cloudiness and skimmer effect, it would seem there's lots to be learned about what the optimal amount of rice actually is.

[kkil4life]

I hear ya on the aeration but think I have enough flow and circulation. I have a 45 gal 25x18x25h tank w Mag7 return to tank with no tee offs to other equipment, two koralia evo 750 gph and two koralia 1's on a wavemaker, and a koralia 1 in sump. My tank is open top and to help with cooling i have a small fan blowing across the top of it. I do have a tiny powerhead with a venturi I can toss in my sump. I have an oxygen test kit I will try out today. Just going to keep a close eye on things today.

true, but it wouldn't hurt to put in another powehead with venturi in the sump

[kkil4life]

Along for a ride on the rice wagon. Many thanks to the folks trying this and all the work that goes into documenting it for the rest of us. I'm more than a bit perplexed that the rice hasn't broken down yet. I guess the water temp. just isn't high enough to cause it to break down the way you would expect it to after cooking. Given the cloudiness and skimmer effect, it would seem there's lots to be learned about what the optimal amount of rice actually is.

since this is the first experiment on rice, we're not even checking for optimal quantity or which type of rice. we're just checking if it works.
:)

[kkil4life]

update

the local reef guru (lbaldrey on RC) came over and was kind enough to bring his elos po4 kit to test the water.

as promised and as per highlandreefer, approx 1/2 of rice was put into about 300ml of RO water for over 24hrs. keep in mind, that I purposely didn't wash this rice very well as I wanted to see how much it can leach.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/90fb5a29.jpg

you can see in the pic that I made a mistake and compared it to the MARINE chart rather than the freshwater chart.
it showed up as 0.01 po4 in the marine chart which is equal to 0.1 in the freshwater chart.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/e8057922.jpg

This shows that the rice does leach po4, but its so little that it can be completely ignored

now for the goodie.......
po4 test of my tank water
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/7af50124.jpg
it didn't even register the color.....that LOW

looking at my tank today the LPS are also showing a little stress due to dramatic decrease in nutrients, but I hope this should all be sorted in a day or two.

so lets hear your opinions guys........

[kkil4life]

also forgot to update, I cleaned a lot of algae of my powehead and glass, havent touched the rock yet.
I also took out my chaeto completely since it was dieing.

[DJREEF]

Hi y'all here's an update on my experience with the rice reactor experiment. Well it's been about 80 hrs since I've brought my rice reactor online. Today I noticed a substantial decrease in the algae growth on my glass, next to nothing compared to the past few days. Skimmer is very active still pulling some pretty smelly skimmate(before this experiment it really didn't pull much). Still not seeing any coating on the surface of the water in my sump. My tank water is just about crystal clear again. The rice has not broken up anymore and has stayed the same color from yesterday. This morning I swear I noticed a sweet ricey smell coming from my tank (no joke). All water params still normal ph was a Little higher today 8.2-8.3 and orp 280mV. As for my tank inhabitants I noticed four disturbing things today. My basket starfish (which I absolutely loved) was in real bad shape this morning, it looked like it's legs were melting off. By the end of the day I moved it to another tank as a last ditch effort to save it, but I am sure this will be the last time I saw my basket star alive. Going to miss my friend very much :( . The other critter I lost was a stomatella snail. I think the losses were due to the high levels of bacteria that are probably present in my water. Also today I noticed my devils hand leather didn't have any polyp extention and my green milli had poor polyp extention. The leather may be getting ready to shed (I hope). And the millie which I nicknamed the wookie because it had the crazyist polyp extention I've seen I can't explain. All the other corals, snails, crabs, tube worms, shrimp, and clams seem fine. Actually a few corals are showing better polyp extension like my tri-color. Lps and softies appear normal also. If I experience any more loss of livestock (I really mean friends) I will be ending this experiment (sadly)

The basket star 2 months ago, I will miss him :sad2:
<a href="http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/?action=view&current=02543674.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/02543674.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>
The stomatella today, his name was speedy:
<a href="http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/?action=view&current=cf1b6a0b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz24/Eb06260/cf1b6a0b.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

In all fairness. Those two guys are going to be your 2 pickiest residents. They may have cashed out simply because of the rapidity of the bio-chemical change. Basket stars, much like crinoids don't do well with sudden change. Stomatellas can behave the same way, though it's odd how many survive the brutality of LR shipments as hitchhikers, but crash when things change in the system. I've never quite been able to get my head around that one. It sucks either way.

DJ

[kkil4life]

In all fairness. Those two guys are going to be your 2 pickiest residents. They may have cashed out simply because of the rapidity of the bio-chemical change. Basket stars, much like crinoids don't do well with sudden change. Stomatellas can behave the same way, though it's odd how many survive the brutality of LR shipments as hitchhikers, but crash when things change in the system. I've never quite been able to get my head around that one. It sucks either way.

DJ

DJ, I was reading the other thread where you have issues with the bio-pellets. are you going to give the rice a try?

[DJREEF]

I'm always on the lookout for something new, but to b quite honest I've only been doing the bp's for a few weeks, so I kind of want to give them a chance before moving on to the next project. I want a definitive yes or no that they're going to work in my set up before exercising other options. I'm thinking I should know something in the next couple of weeks after I finish adding the full 1 litre.

DJ

[kkil4life]

DJ, the rice seems to have taken effect well within the first few days, I dont think u need to wait like in the case of bio-pellets.
well hopefully this thread will have all the information that you need to help you and others make up their mind about rice.

btw guys, is there anything else that you would like me to look out for? or test for?

[Genetics]

I'm still not really convinced that the 'rice reactor' has added anything beneficial to your reef tank.

The skimmate increase could be the result of the rice slowly breaking down and being pulled out through the skimmer.

The test kit reads only inorganic phosphate. Rice will have many times this in organic phosphate. I would worry that either it will breakdown down in the system eventually leading to a rise in inorganic phosphates over time.

[kkil4life]

genetics, if you see a few posts up, you will notice that I did the phosphate leaching test on RO water.
This was just a bottle of water with rice in it for a little over 24hrs.
it leached 0.1ppm phosphate in 300ml of water, so this is a very small amount going even into a nano.
if you see the pic of the test for po4 in tank water, its undetectable. which means that the bacteria consumed whatever was leached from the rice and the po4 that was in my tank.
and if organic phosphate is broken down into inorganic phosphate, the bacteria will consume it as soon as it is broken down, so again nothing to worry about

the only thing is, I think you should start with 1/4 cup for every 100g water volume and work your way up so that you dont shock your inhabitants.

[icycoral]

well I haven't written my daily update yet as I havent tested my water params but everything looks good otherwise and I have no algae growing on my glass today none! still haven't tested for oxygen yet, it's been a busy day

[kkil4life]

well I haven't written my daily update yet as I havent tested my water params but everything looks good otherwise and I have no algae growing on my glass today none! still haven't tested for oxygen yet, it's been a busy day

sounds good icycoral
do you have no3 and po4 params before the rice?
looks like its just a few days for the rice to kick in, I wonder if I can patent this and call it "reef rice", $50 for 500ml in a zip-lock bag
lol

[jjsan]

Very cool experiment. Reminds of me science projects in school. But doesn't the rapid decay of the rice requires you to refill the reactor often? So wouldn't the cost increase over time? How often had you refill your reactor already?

[elijaher]

Be careful vendor will strate selling Bio-Rice just hear they sell pitch.

[Stuart60611]

genetics, if you see a few posts up, you will notice that I did the phosphate leaching test on RO water.
This was just a bottle of water with rice in it for a little over 24hrs.
it leached 0.1ppm phosphate in 300ml of water, so this is a very small amount going even into a nano.
if you see the pic of the test for po4 in tank water, its undetectable. which means that the bacteria consumed whatever was leached from the rice and the po4 that was in my tank.
and if organic phosphate is broken down into inorganic phosphate, the bacteria will consume it as soon as it is broken down, so again nothing to worry about

the only thing is, I think you should start with 1/4 cup for every 100g water volume and work your way up so that you dont shock your inhabitants.


I am not sure the fact that the rice leached little phosphate in r/o water means that the rice is still not adding substantial phosphate to the system as it is consumed by the bacteria in saltwater. First, the bacteria in a marine environment which break down the rice is probably not present in substantial quantities in r/o water, and therefore, the small amount phosphate which leached out in the r/o water from the rice imo does not mean much because it is still probably bound up in the rice and not broken down much by bacteria. Second, the fact that you did not test any phosphate in the tank water with the rice being dissolved therein does not mean that substantial phosphate is not leaching from the rice which is not being consumed by bacteria. The algae in your system could be simply taking up all the phosphate leaching from the rice and therefore is undectable in your test kits. Since the pictures of your system show you have substantial algae, I would be more convinced that the rice is not leaching any phosphate into the system not consumed by bacteria if rice was used on a system with little algae and still showed no increase in phosphate readings and/or increased algae growth.

[kkil4life]

Very cool experiment. Reminds of me science projects in school. But doesn't the rapid decay of the rice requires you to refill the reactor often? So wouldn't the cost increase over time? How often had you refill your reactor already?

surprisingly the rice is holding up pretty well. I haven't had to replace or top off the rice even once so far.
infact even if you need to replace the rice in one or two months, its still cheaper than GFO and the bio-pellets and is readily available

[kkil4life]

Be careful vendor will strate selling Bio-Rice just hear they sell pitch.

lol, I can imagine "aquacultured rice"....lol

[kkil4life]

I am not sure the fact that the rice leached little phosphate in r/o water means that the rice is still not adding substantial phosphate to the system as it is consumed by the bacteria in saltwater. First, the bacteria in a marine environment which break down the rice is probably not present in substantial quantities in r/o water, and therefore, the small amount phosphate which leached out in the r/o water from the rice imo does not mean much because it is still probably bound up in the rice and not broken down much by bacteria. Second, the fact that you did not test any phosphate in the tank water with the rice being dissolved therein does not mean that substantial phosphate is not leaching from the rice which is not being consumed by bacteria. The algae in your system could be simply taking up all the phosphate leaching from the rice and therefore is undectable in your test kits. Since the pictures of your system show you have substantial algae, I would be more convinced that the rice is not leaching any phosphate into the system not consumed by bacteria if rice was used on a system with little algae and still showed no increase in phosphate readings and/or increased algae growth.


OR if you look at it this way, my system has algae growing due to po4 being present. correct?
now with the rice the algae is dieing.
algae is dieing, and po4 tests out zero po4.
doesnt this mean that the bacteria is consuming the po4?

ALSO, this is why I have decided to trim back the algae rather than let it die on its own. I've clean up parts of the glass and powerhead. I haven't cleaned the rocks yet. if the algae grows again, this means that either I need more rice or more bacteria.
lets see how this goes......but ur input is valuable and I will definitely see how I can improve my testing methods. and since this is just day 4, we still have some time to prove that rice is a viable method of reducing N and P.

I really hope I can prove you wrong. :)

[Stuart60611]

. if the algae grows again, this means that either I need more rice or more bacteria.
lets see how this goes......but ur input is valuable and I will definitely see how I can improve my testing methods. and since this is just day 4, we still have some time to prove that rice is a viable method of reducing N and P.

I really hope I can prove you wrong. :)

Or if the algae grows again, it may mean that the rice is contributing more phosphate to the system then the total bacterial mass potential of the system can consume in a timely fashion. I wish you the best of luck with your experiment, but I too am extremely cautious about this approach because I have a hard time accepting that by adding so much additional phosphate to your system with the rice that you are doing anything but increasing phosphate levels despite what bacterial mass gains may occur from the addition of the carbon in the rice. It is important to note that bacteria take up many times more nitrate for each unit of phosphate. Therefore, when you add phosphate to your system, it requires much more bacterial mass to remove the phosphate than it would to remove the same amount of nitrate. As such, you would need to gain a vast amount of bacterial mass from the carbon in the rice for each unit of phosphate added to your system from the rice, or you will otherwise have residual phosphate. I just very much doubt that this is the case.

[kkil4life]

Or if the algae grows again, it may mean that the rice is contributing more phosphate to the system then the total bacterial mass potential of the system can consume in a timely fashion. I wish you the best of luck with your experiment, but I too am extremely cautious about this approach because I have a hard time accepting that by adding so much additional phosphate to your system with the rice that you are doing anything but increasing phosphate levels despite what bacterial mass gains may occur from the addition of the carbon in the rice. It is important to note that bacteria take up many times more nitrate for each unit of phosphate. Therefore, when you add phosphate to your system, it requires much more bacterial mass to remove the phosphate than it would to remove the nitrate. As such, you would need to gain a vast amount of bacterial mass from the carbon in the rice for each unit of phosphate added to your system from the rice. I just very much doubt that this is the case.

even if the phosphate is added into the system, there is very very little po4 in rice. approx 115mg per 100g. so that means 0.115g. this is much less that what you add with some foods

[kkil4life]

ok, I've been reading up on rice for a bit, and I think we might have a minor problem.

FIRSTLY before I believe what I read, does anyone know if rice contains COPPER or SILICA?


icycoral, can you test for SILICA as well?

[kkil4life]

apparently rice has 130 µg copper (what is that symbol, is it micron?) per 100g of rice.

http://www.food-allergens.de/symposium-vol1(4)/data/rice/rice-composition.htm

I also found out that rice HUSK has silicondioxide.
I dont have a copper test kit, so cant test for copper
OUCH

ICYCORAL, THIS ONE IS UPTO YOU.
ASAP TEST FOR COPPER!!!

[HighlandReefer]

"Minerals Nutrition in White Rice (Cooked)
Calcium (Ca) content (mg per 100g) 19
Iron (Fe) content (mg per 100g) 1.13
Magnesium (Mg) content (mg per 100g) 12
Phosphorus (P) content (mg per 100g) 42
Potassium (K) content (mg per 100g) 37
Sodium (Na) content (mg per 100g) 3
Zinc (Zn) content (mg per 100g) 0.31
Copper (Cu) content (mg per 100g) 0.094
Manganese (Mn) content (mg per 100g) 0.26
Selenium (Se) content (µ per 100g) 8.2"

http://www.calorie-counter.net/calories-potatoes-rice/white-rice-cooked.htm

[kkil4life]

highland what does this mean?
is it a cause for concern?
copper was the obvious thing I checked for before trying this experiment, but somehow it slipped me
should I stop the rice? or do you think the carbon will pull it out?

[Stuart60611]

The addition of the copper may be why the algae is dying, and the rice could still be adding phosphate to the system. Similar to why Kent's Tech M is effective at killing algae. The raised magnesium levels from adding Tech M do not kill the algae, but rather it is the metal impurities in the Tech M.

[kkil4life]

I'm currently not worried about the po4, but rather the copper.
do you think that those levels are even a little dangerous?

[Stuart60611]

I'm currently not worried about the po4, but rather the copper.
do you think that those levels are even a little dangerous?


I have no idea, but my prior comment was directed at showing that the fact that your algae is dying does not mean that the rice is not adding phosphate to your system but may instead be the result of the copper addition contained in rice. Someone with more knowlege about copper needs to advise on whether this is a dangerous amount of copper to add. I will chime in and state that I do know natural sea water contains a small amount of copper as well as many other things found in the ocean. As such, the fact that the rice has some copper may not be a problem. The amount of copper I think is what is critical.

[kkil4life]

I am aware that natural sea water has copper. but I dont know if the copper in rice would effect anything since its less than 0.1g per 100g of rice. and I would think that I must have used 50g of rice. so that means the copper amount is also half?
WILL DEFINITELY RUN MORE CARBON IN THE MORNING!!!!

[Just2Many]

How much copper can the Carbon pull out? What about zinc?

[elijaher]

Zeovit has product that contain copper and biotrim also contains copper also. Copper pull algae from the coral's pigments to make it lighter. That is something to be a little worry about.

[khaosinc]

Theres trace amounts of copper added to most reef salts, I don't think I would worry about it much

[RichConley]

I am aware that natural sea water has copper. but I dont know if the copper in rice would effect anything since its less than 0.1g per 100g of rice. and I would think that I must have used 50g of rice. so that means the copper amount is also half?
WILL DEFINITELY RUN MORE CARBON IN THE MORNING!!!!

You're missing a unit there.

its .09 mg copper per 100g of rice. Thats 0.000094 g of copper per 100g of rice, or in your case, 0.000047g of copper. Anyone want to figure out how many parts per trillion that is?

[elijaher]

At that level there nothing to worry about cool.

[HighlandReefer]

Many fish foods contain more copper than the white rice does. So do many of the supplements. :)

I would be more concerned about the haze in your tank, if it is still there. Perhaps running a filter bag will help clear your water column much quicker then just skimming.

[noahm]

Dismantle themselves??? I did not know about this I couldn't find too much info on them can you plz tell me more.

Sorry bout the highjack OP, but I though I should clarify. Basket stars, in general, take a ridiculous amount of pampering when it comes to providing food, and stability. They often starve very very slowly, and the 'dismantling' just seems to be the common way they die. I think it has to do with how their outer 'skin' is structured in sections. I just used a term that seemed fitting.

Back on topic, thanks for posting the phosphate numbers, and the original P content of rice etc. It helps answer at least how mch potentially could be added to the system. Not a considerable amount considering the time the rice seems to take to break down at this point. Keep it up.

[DJREEF]

I am aware that natural sea water has copper. but I dont know if the copper in rice would effect anything since its less than 0.1g per 100g of rice. and I would think that I must have used 50g of rice. so that means the copper amount is also half?
WILL DEFINITELY RUN MORE CARBON IN THE MORNING!!!!

Absolutely, that or a polypad should alleviate any concern.

DJ

[icycoral]

Wow there have been quite a few posts since I checked earlier this afternoon. I currently don't have a copper test kit however when I looked at the stats for rice I remember saying to myself "that's almost nothing" there's more copper in Kent "essential elements" than that so I'm not worried about it. Did check my O2 levels took samples for three parts of my tank they all read the same 7ppm (redsea test kit) which according to the test kit is normal for my salinity and temp. Have to say I really am amazed in the difference between the algae growth from yesterday to today almost like flipping a switch. I'm also starting to see the algae in my fuge die off.

[icycoral]

I checked my NO3 and PO4 before the experiment with the test kits I have which are API and my levels were undetectable with those kits. I posted in my club forum about borrowing a photometer for either nitrates or phosphates and got no responses. I would have loved to have had actual readings to post instead of "undetectable".

[aurora]

Wow...I haven't check this thread in a day and looked what happened!!!

Anyway, the fact that you guys have seen significant drastic signs of reduced nitrate in your tank is great but this could be harmful if done too quickly. I've been in this hobby long enough to know that any rapid change in a reef system even for the better can have significant harmful effects to some light/nutrient sensitive livestock. My orange Florida ricordia is the most sensitive to nutrient depletion in my tank. I took out some of my rice when I started to see nutrient depletion stress in my softies a few days ago. I suggest you guys do the same or take the rice off-line for a couple of days to give your corals time to adjust to the lower level of nitrates. It's also not just the nitrate. I've also noticed clearer water with my rice use and this will also affects the amount of light your corals get. My tank is mostly SPS so my corals love the added light. Water clarity is critical in how much light actually reach your corals. Any sudden increase in light reaching your coral could cause some burns in light sensitive corals. I only used about 1.5 cup of rice in my 400g system to start with but my system in fairly low nutrient anyhow. My advice at this time is to slow it down a bit if you see any stress in your livestock. IMO, it's obvious that rice is a potent nitrate reducer and needs to be ramped up slowly to keep your livestock happy.

I'd hate to see this experiment failed because the rice worked too fast and too well for the purpose that we want to achieve.

[elijaher]

I have high hope on this it's a learning curve as the journey goes.

[icycoral]

Hey Aurora I def hear you on changes occurring too quick can be bad even if they are changes for the better. I can't believe how quick the nutrients are getting sucked out of my tank. I may have to cycle my reactor or remove some media if my corals show signs of stress from the low nutrient levels. And as Eli said there will def be a learning curve, as more people try this and report their individual results.

[kkil4life]

How much copper can the Carbon pull out? What about zinc?

not really sure, but it depends on the type of carbo and the brand I think
regardless, I'll be putting in a sock full of carbon in a few mins

[kkil4life]

Zeovit has product that contain copper and biotrim also contains copper also. Copper pull algae from the coral's pigments to make it lighter. That is something to be a little worry about.

Theres trace amounts of copper added to most reef salts, I don't think I would worry about it much

You're missing a unit there.

its .09 mg copper per 100g of rice. Thats 0.000094 g of copper per 100g of rice, or in your case, 0.000047g of copper. Anyone want to figure out how many parts per trillion that is?

At that level there nothing to worry about cool.

looks like I was just waaaayyy to sleepy last night and kind of panicked when I saw the copper and didn't even do the math right....lol

[icycoral]

Well it's been 4+ days since I filled my reactor with rice and started this experiment and today was the first day I haven't had algea growth on my glass. I'm also starting to see some of my cheato die off. My water params are all normal
Sg 1.026
Ph 8.1
ammo 0
trites 0
trates 0 undetectable
PO4 0 undetectable
Mag 1380
Kh 9
Calc 460-480
My orp went up a little today 289mV
I have had the ozone generation on my aquazone turned off and have just been using the orp monitor. All my corals seem fine although a few zoa's have lightened up ever so slightly. I believe this is from the lowered nutrients. All other corals look pretty much the same I'm seeing good polyp extension and color. Water is still clear. The rice is still holding up and hasn't broken up into little pieces (which I think is pretty amazing). My skimmer is starting to calm down a bit, but it is still collecting more skimmate than it ever has before this experiment. I also tested my oxygen levels today and they seemed pretty good. I used a red sea oxygen test kit which suggested for my temp(80F) and salinity (1.026sg) I should have a o2 saturation of just over 6ppm. I tested three sample from my tank and got 7ppm across the board (Woot!). So far I am very impressed with using rice as a solid carbon source for nutrient reduction. I will continue with this experiment however if I notice stress from the rapid decline in nutrients I will try connecting the feed pump on my reactor to a timer. I am also starting to ponder the next part of this experiment, how to prolong the benefits of using rice in a reactor. Will it be as simple as just adding more rice when the old rice breaks down or will I have to dump the old media and use fresh rice? Will there be a signifcant lapse in nutrient reduction when exchanging the new and old rice? How much rice is optimal? I have a feeling that the amount of nutrient reduction capacity will increase exponentially to the volume of rice used. Enough mind wandering, for now I am only seeing positive results and no negative effects as of yet.

[kkil4life]

Many fish foods contain more copper than the white rice does. So do many of the supplements. :)

I would be more concerned about the haze in your tank, if it is still there. Perhaps running a filter bag will help clear your water column much quicker then just skimming.

Unfortunately I dont have a filter sock, but the haze has almost cleared.

[kkil4life]

Wow there have been quite a few posts since I checked earlier this afternoon. I currently don't have a copper test kit however when I looked at the stats for rice I remember saying to myself "that's almost nothing" there's more copper in Kent "essential elements" than that so I'm not worried about it. Did check my O2 levels took samples for three parts of my tank they all read the same 7ppm (redsea test kit) which according to the test kit is normal for my salinity and temp. Have to say I really am amazed in the difference between the algae growth from yesterday to today almost like flipping a switch. I'm also starting to see the algae in my fuge die off.

good on the oxygen levels.
the rice limits algae growth quiet a bit doesnt it? infact theres no algae growing on my glass. the only algae growing on the glass is the parts I haven't cleaned, and that too is turning brown and dieing.
same goes for gha and cyno, just turing brown, becoming loose and dieing.

[kkil4life]

Wow...I haven't check this thread in a day and looked what happened!!!

Anyway, the fact that you guys have seen significant drastic signs of reduced nitrate in your tank is great but this could be harmful if done too quickly. I've been in this hobby long enough to know that any rapid change in a reef system even for the better can have significant harmful effects to some light/nutrient sensitive livestock. My orange Florida ricordia is the most sensitive to nutrient depletion in my tank. I took out some of my rice when I started to see nutrient depletion stress in my softies a few days ago. I suggest you guys do the same or take the rice off-line for a couple of days to give your corals time to adjust to the lower level of nitrates. It's also not just the nitrate. I've also noticed clearer water with my rice use and this will also affects the amount of light your corals get. My tank is mostly SPS so my corals love the added light. Water clarity is critical in how much light actually reach your corals. Any sudden increase in light reaching your coral could cause some burns in light sensitive corals. I only used about 1.5 cup of rice in my 400g system to start with but my system in fairly low nutrient anyhow. My advice at this time is to slow it down a bit if you see any stress in your livestock. IMO, it's obvious that rice is a potent nitrate reducer and needs to be ramped up slowly to keep your livestock happy.

I'd hate to see this experiment failed because the rice worked too fast and too well for the purpose that we want to achieve.

the working too fast and too well is definitely something to be cautious of......I guess we should "dose like vodka", add 10g initially for every 100gallons then keep adding 10g till we reach a point where N and P are undetectable.

[kkil4life]

Hey Aurora I def hear you on changes occurring too quick can be bad even if they are changes for the better. I can't believe how quick the nutrients are getting sucked out of my tank. I may have to cycle my reactor or remove some media if my corals show signs of stress from the low nutrient levels. And as Eli said there will def be a learning curve, as more people try this and report their individual results.

its pretty cool how the rice is working so well, but I think if the nutrients are being pulled out so fast we might need to remove some rice from the reactor.

[kkil4life]

I am also starting to ponder the next part of this experiment, how to prolong the benefits of using rice in a reactor. Will it be as simple as just adding more rice when the old rice breaks down or will I have to dump the old media and use fresh rice? Will there be a signifcant lapse in nutrient reduction when exchanging the new and old rice? How much rice is optimal? I have a feeling that the amount of nutrient reduction capacity will increase exponentially to the volume of rice used. Enough mind wandering, for now I am only seeing positive results and no negative effects as of yet.

the next step is definitely going to be interesting.
but hopefully we will have people helping us out with the experiment and more people means more situations that we can tackle.
I think in a month or two the rice train will definitely be something for people to hop onto.

[kkil4life]

quick update.....

it appears I got a lil freaked out about the copper, but it turn out its no cause for concern.
the other thing I got a lil woried about was silica. the thing is, I did a silica test BEFORE I knew there was silica in rice (can someone double check this and confirm back), according to what I found there is silicondioxide SiO2 in rice HUSK ASH. does this also appy to white rice?
the reason I did the silica test was that my friend has been telling me that I need to change my sand because it contains silicate, since its a cheap chinese sand that I used. I've never paid attention to it, but come to think of it, I've always had a lil dino which I used to clear up every once in a while. when we did the silica test, it showed 0.25 silica in the water.
THIS IS HOPEFULLY FROM MY SAND AND NOT THE RICE. but I would want icycoral or aurora to check for silica and report their findings. if it is from the rice, do you guys think 0.25 is a cause for concern? or should we just let this go? it would actually be great if icycoral and aurora report no silicates

heres a quick before and after photo
yesterdays pic
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/fa065683.jpg

and todays pic
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/a88309dc.jpg

if you notice in the pic theres not much change, but in real the dino has seemed to be fading away and is not so thick as before

[icycoral]

the working too fast and too well is definitely something to be cautious of......I guess we should "dose like vodka", add 10g initially for every 100gallons then keep adding 10g till we reach a point where N and P are undetectable.

its pretty cool how the rice is working so well, but I think if the nutrients are being pulled out so fast we might need to remove some rice from the reactor.

the next step is definitely going to be interesting.
but hopefully we will have people helping us out with the experiment and more people means more situations that we can tackle.
I think in a month or two the rice train will definitely be something for people to hop onto.

Yup it's def working. It's going to take some trial and error to get the dose right and intervals to reach proper dose but it is exciting that this is working so well. It seems like the amount of reduction in nutrients is going to increase exponentially to the volume of rice used. I'm only using half a cup in a 60 system and aurora is using 1 1/2 cups in a 400 gal system. Very curious to see how this plays out as more people try it.

[kkil4life]

after reading advanced aquarist, it appears that silica is found both in food that we feed our fish and in KALK......since I use KALK in large quantities (top off), this could also be a reason for mu 0.25ppm of silica. I think upto 1ppm silica is acceptable?? can someone confirm this?

[kkil4life]

Yup it's def working. It's going to take some trial and error to get the dose right and intervals to reach proper dose but it is exciting that this is working so well. It seems like the amount of reduction in nutrients is going to increase exponentially to the volume of rice used. I'm only using half a cup in a 60 system and aurora is using 1 1/2 cups in a 400 gal system. Very curious to see how this plays out as more people try it.

hhmmm.....and I'm using 1 and 1/2 cups in my 100g system
but so far, nutrient reduction has been most agressive for me, so I guess the right dose would be around 1/2cup for every 50-75g?

[icycoral]

I'll see if I can get my hands on a silicate test kit today. But from what I understand silicates only fuel algae growth. With no PO4 or NO3 algae won't have the necessities to grow anyways. Kinda like heat + fuel - oxygen = no fire. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think silicates cause anything to precipitate like phosphates do to calcium

[kkil4life]

reading more on rice, it appears silica is only present in the rice HUSK an husk ask, not in the rice itself.

rice composition
http://www.foodcomp.dk/v7/fcdb_details.asp?FoodId=0223

rice comosition in laymans terms
http://www.nutritionanalyser.com/food_composition/?fid=20036

looks like the copper is nothing to really worry about since its between 0.10 and 0.20mg per 100g of rice. and the silica is only in the rice husk and not the rice itself. can someone correct me on this if I'm wrong

[spy_spy]

and todays pic
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/a88309dc.jpg

if you notice in the pic theres not much change, but in real the dino has seemed to be fading away and is not so thick as before


VS the first pic...


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/225ed502.jpg

just notice that the scoly is receding...

kudos for a brave experiment bro.

[kkil4life]

Day 5 update

so far everything seems good

1.po4 undetectable
2.no3 close to 2.5ppm (need to check again today)
3.silica 0.25ppm, I'm not sure if this is from the rice or if its from my sand leaching silica, but again I think upto 1.00ppm is quiet acceptable.
4.fish are all good
5.corals are reacting to the rapid decline in nutrients. I'm sure they'll be ok in a day or so.
6.alage has stopped growing and is now starting to recede and die off.

if anything, it seems that I have used a lot of rice, and if anyone else is trying this experiment I think you should start off with maybe 1/4 cup and work your way upto 1/2cup per 50-75gallon of water volume.

[kkil4life]

just notice that the scoly is receding...

kudos for a brave experiment bro.

the scoly had been receding before this experiment. at times of day it looks really bad, and at times it looks a little better. the scoly cant be used as a judge for the rice.

[kkil4life]

just notice that the scoly is receding...

kudos for a brave experiment bro.

haha....just noticed who you are.
infact this is the same scoly that I thought was an acan at first. since the whole thread of what this piece was, it started receding......

I really hope that regardlesss of whats going on, this scoly does better.

[kkil4life]

ok quick update

I've cleaned a bit of the glass, cleaned some algae of 1-2 rocks, basically algae that was breaking loose, I've also cleaned some cyno off the sand

figured that my scoly was getting too much flow, so moved him a bit as well
:)

skimmer still going strong, its not going nuts, but its still pretty smelly and pulling out a lot of gunk

[Just2Many]

Looks like the rice is doing some good.

[DJREEF]

after reading advanced aquarist, it appears that silica is found both in food that we feed our fish and in KALK......since I use KALK in large quantities (top off), this could also be a reason for mu 0.25ppm of silica. I think upto 1ppm silica is acceptable?? can someone confirm this?

Start growing sponges. That'll knock your silica levels down.

Always remember. Biological problem = Biological solution

DJ

[Du]

It is very interesting. i cross my fingers for yours success, kkil4life & others

[thebanker]

Start growing sponges. That'll knock your silica levels down.

Always remember. Biological problem = Biological solution

DJ

Chances are, he may have some sponges already that came with LR. They are some of the neatest and most oddly shaped and colored hitchhikers I've found on my LR.


So it sounds like the rice thing is working so far. What is the integrity of the rice grains? Have they turned to mush yet, or are they mostly whole?

[Just2Many]

Start growing sponges. That'll knock your silica levels down.

Always remember. Biological problem = Biological solution

DJ

Not to get off subject but sponges? Really?

[DJREEF]

Sponges produce spicules, which are composed of of silica which is pulled from the bulk water. They use the spicules as a kind of internal skeletal structure, a lattice for lack of a better term with which to hang new tissue upon. Once the spicule is produced it becomes inert, like silica sand and leaves the soluble solution permanently.

DJ

[bertoni]

Some sponges use silica; others use calcium carbonate. :) A number of people dose silica to keep their sponges happy. I did that for a few years.

[crazylegs]

what is the integrity of the rice grains? Have they turned to mush yet, or are they mostly whole?
+1

[elijaher]

Once algea starte dieing off it will release junk back into the water.

[kkil4life]

Start growing sponges. That'll knock your silica levels down.

Always remember. Biological problem = Biological solution

DJ

I think I might consider doing this.....

[kkil4life]

Chances are, he may have some sponges already that came with LR. They are some of the neatest and most oddly shaped and colored hitchhikers I've found on my LR.


So it sounds like the rice thing is working so far. What is the integrity of the rice grains? Have they turned to mush yet, or are they mostly whole?

nope, the rice is whole and it is still hard like it was when I put it in......I will not turn to much unless its boiled

[kkil4life]

Once algea starte dieing off it will release junk back into the water.

this is a new issue that I'm having......since I'm pulling off the algae, that means less nutrients are used up. also since the algae is dieing, it is causing a mini cycle (nothing noticable), and these two things combined and kept my tank hazy. The haze is alomst 90% gone and I presume within a day or two I should have crystal clear water.
this is NOT a cause for concern since I know that this problem is specific to my system cuz of the algae. For those of you who dont have alage growning like crazy, I think you will not experience a bacterial bloom for more than 2-3 days. right now my tank looks like I just dosed purple up. slightly hazy. but I can see from one end of the tank to the other, so not a real issue.

[icycoral]

Well it's been 5 days since I brought the rice reactor online and so far so good. All water parameters are the same not going to even bother writing it all out. My orp went up just a little more today it's now at 290mV. I read a link someone posted in my club forum on vodka doseng and am thinking about turning the ozone back on
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
Have noticed just a little bit of algea on my glass but only very little and it has been two days since I cleaned it. I am starting to see subtle signs of stress in two corals my blasto m. and my green milli. The blasto looks like it is receding ever so slightly and the milli has poor pe. so tonight I added a little Kent "microvert". Everything else looks good and most are starting to brighten up a little. My green/yellow acro looks the best it ever has. I recently acquired a purple monster that started to turn a little green it's now starting to turn back to purple. My blue tenuis is getting brighter and my crayola planna is taking on some cool colors. My scolly looks ok maybe not as plump as usual but otherwise healthy. I have a nice frag of Miami hurricane that is starting to brighten up, it was I little brownish now the blue is starting to come out more. My rice is holding up I haven't opened up my reactor yet but it does not appear to be breaking up at all. KK reported in a post that his rice was as hard as when he put it in the reactor and that would have been 5 days ago. I am very impressed with the rice as a solid organic carbon source. After the bacterial bloom that lasted only a few days things are looking very nice.

[icycoral]

Just thought of somthing I have frags of the green milli on a frag rack. they are much higher in the tank and under more intense light, they look great. the bigger piece that is lower in the tank looks a little funny. Hmm may be due to the light and flow fwiw.

[kkil4life]

quick update
everything seems good
corals are showing less signs of stress and have adjusted to the lowered nutrients

[kkil4life]

Day 6 update

1.It appears that the corals have gotten used to the reduced nutrients and are starting to show normal PE again.
2.all algae is slowly dieing.
3.cyno on the sandben has turned from red to brown and now looks like detritius and needs to be cleaned from the sandbed.
3.skimmer is still skimming a lot, not as much as before but starting to get more dry.
4.all parameters are normal.
5.water is still a little hazy, but I expect it to last a little longer as I clean my tank everyday leading to more die off of algae and a mini-bloom again till the entire tank it cleaned out.

[mylifeismyown66]

real cool thread. Have been thinking about dosing vodka, but if this works out it may be a much easier method.

[kkil4life]

quick update

everything seems good and all levels are good as well. I guess the rice doesnt alter any other aspects of reef chemistry other than no3 and po4 levels.

icycoral, I really dont have access to a copper test kit, and they dont have decent ones in stores here either, and by the time I order a kit and get it, it will be over a month. is it possible for you to put a 1/4 cup of rice in a water bottle and leave it for 2 days or so and test it for copper leach-out? using salt water would be better than RO water.

[thebanker]

The rice is working. Are either of you running GFO?

[elijaher]

Seems like rich give a good bacteria bloom lot better then solid vodka. One more day it be a week.

[icycoral]

icycoral, I really dont have access to a copper test kit, and they dont have decent ones in stores here either, and by the time I order a kit and get it, it will be over a month. is it possible for you to put a 1/4 cup of rice in a water bottle and leave it for 2 days or so and test it for copper leach-out? using salt water would be better than RO water.
Will get a copper test kit this week, if not by the end of this weekend. can you soak some rice and test for silica.
The rice is working. Are either of you running GFO?
Not running gfo. Last weekend I was supposed to refill my reactor but I decided to try the rice instead. So far I haven't seen any draw backs only benefits. Rice is a lot cheaper than gfo.

[icycoral]

Day 6
Did my weekly water change today. I ended up swapping out a little extra water, instead of my normal 5 gallons I did a 10 gal water change. My orp shot up to 310mV. All my corals are looking fine even my lps and softies look great. The rice is still holding up and doesn't seem to have broken up anymore than since I first noticed a few small pieces a couple days ago. Still getting a tiny bit of algae growing on my glass but it's much less than before the experiment using rice.

[hypnoj]

Along for the ride, can't wait to see long term reporting. As they say in medical research " nothing hurts good results like long term follow-up "!!

[kkil4life]

The rice is working. Are either of you running GFO?

nope, no gfo

[kkil4life]

Will get a copper test kit this week, if not by the end of this weekend. can you soak some rice and test for silica.


i completely forgot about that one......will soak the rice today and post results tomorrow.

[notclear]

Can or should I run carbon and also rice, not in the same reactor?

[kkil4life]

Can or should I run carbon and also rice, not in the same reactor?

I run rice in a reactor and since I dont have a second reactor for carbon, I just use it in a meshbag in the sump.
if u have a reactor for it, even better

[elijaher]

It's not good to run same or different media in the same reactor.

[kkil4life]

no no, I meant carbon in a separate reactor from the rice

[kkil4life]

update day 7

ok it has now been ONE week running the rice on my system

here is my observation so far

1.algae just seems to immediately die away within a few days. I guess the rice is pulling out the nutrients FASTER than the algae can take them up.
if your going the rice route, watch out for your macro algae, your not going to be too happy with ur macros reaction.
infact I gave my chaetos to a fellow reefer just to save it from dieing.

2.if you have gha or any other kind of algae, this is definitely the way to go, but remember you will have to do a lot of cleaning, like I'm doing now, and this will result in a longer hazy water period.

3.my water is still not 100% clear, its still got that look when you dose purple up. but I'm fine with this becasue I know that I'm pulling out a lot of algae, and i still have not started on the rocks yet. I will be doing a 30% water change in the next few days, and will use this to clean my rocks as well as re-aquascape my tank.

4.the only guys that I really noticed effeted by the rice was my tiny feater dusters. there were practically 40-50 on a rock but that reduced to like 30ish. but I think this is because they got suffocated with algae dieing on them (since i wasnt cleaning the first few days). to elaborate, the dieing algae was covering the little feater dustes and must have killed them. there still are a lot of them on the other side of the rock. so I dont think rice was the problem.

5.skimmer is still pulling out a lot of gunk. this is what my skimmer looked like today, just one day after cleaning it. yes I cleaned it yesterday.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/187df8d7.jpg
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/659c25ee.jpg
still skimming like a champ.

6.i will be posting up silicate test on the rice later tomorrow.

7.heres a shot of the corner of my tank. this is two days ago.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/a88309dc.jpg

I didnt take a pic yesterday.
and this is how it looks like today
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/81c5515d.jpg

8.as far as the actual rice is concerned. it seems to be holding up pretty well. you can still see each rice is individually tumbling over and is not stuck together or has not become mush or mulm like the bio-pellets. the rice has got a tint of yellowish color to it now, but that just might be the bacteria covering up the rice. I guess approx 200gph should be enough to tumble the rice in a reactor.

9.all fish are happy as can be and are not showing any signs of stress.
corals are back to normal and are showing normal PE.
infact my bubble coral is starting to show more PE. my bali green slimer which was starting to lose color and turn brown is now holding its color, and I guess it will start to color up soon.

10.I am currently feeding my frozen food without washing it so that I get some more phosphate into the system, I'm dosing extra coral food as well. and this could also explain my water hazyness.

11.my glass is cleeaaannn, the places where I've cleaned is still clean without algae growing. the places where I left the algae growing has now slowly started to clear up.

I hope my and icycorals updates might have gotten others interested in starting their own rice reactors, let me know if u guys need some help.

[notclear]

My two reactors are connected in series, so carbon first or rice first?

As rice is cheap, so can I replace it more often, say every two or three weeks? Or must the rice need time in the reactor to have the chemical effect?

[khaosinc]

If I was setting mine up yet (My salt showed up today... so soon..) I would run carbon first as no one is entirely clear what rice is doing yet other than it seems to be working well in a couple experiments. Rice seems to hit hard and fast from what I've seen so far, so start with a small amount.

I think I may try with actually running it in a bag in one of my skimmers. See what happens.

[kkil4life]

My two reactors are connected in series, so carbon first or rice first?

As rice is cheap, so can I replace it more often, say every two or three weeks? Or must the rice need time in the reactor to have the chemical effect?

carbon first then rice, you dont want the bacteria colonizing the carbon pellets or blocking up the carbon reactor.

so carbon in first reactor, rice in second. but the rice SHOULD have a slight tumble. and the outlet from the rice should be near the skimmer

[kkil4life]

If I was setting mine up yet (My salt showed up today... so soon..) I would run carbon first as no one is entirely clear what rice is doing yet other than it seems to be working well in a couple experiments. Rice seems to hit hard and fast from what I've seen so far, so start with a small amount.

I think I may try with actually running it in a bag in one of my skimmers. See what happens.

are you going to try it on the 750g in ur sig?
I really dont know how much rice you need, but I run 1 and 1/2 cups on roughly 100g, and icycoral runs about 1/2 cup on 60g. I think I have a little too much and he has it on the lower end. so I think about 1 cup for every 75gallons or so should be good as a starting point. but in your case I woul just go with 3 cups or so to start of with and slowly increase. ur way up to 1 cup for every 75g.

[kkil4life]

quick update

just did a no3 test with my salifert kit
and look at this
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/222a94cf.jpg

no3 is so low that I cant even detect it with the low range test. I used to get nitrates of 2 to 5 even with my gha and all, but with the rice, its undetectable. just like how the phosphates were on the elos kit.

maybe I need to cut back on my rice a little bit?
or let it run for another week and remove all algae and clean rocks and then wait to see the result?

[DylanC]

this is really interesting stuff i can't wait to see what happens.

How long do you think until the rice gets all mushy and gross?

[elijaher]

It has been at least a week and the rice still not close of getting mushy.

[elijaher]

I think it have to do with the temp.

[icycoral]

quick update

just did a no3 test with my salifert kit
and look at this
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad114/kkil4life/222a94cf.jpg

no3 is so low that I cant even detect it with the low range test. I used to get nitrates of 2 to 5 even with my gha and all, but with the rice, its undetectable. just like how the phosphates were on the elos kit.

maybe I need to cut back on my rice a little bit?
or let it run for another week and remove all algae and clean rocks and then wait to see the result?

Wow that's pretty awesome man. I'm going to order some test kits this week to get some real numbers to post. Should have picked them up before starting this but oh well.

[icycoral]

Did the family thing today so I didn't get to Check all my params but everything is looking great. All corals look fine getting good polyp extension and colors. My lps seem ok scolly, blasto, and and chalices looking good. zoas and softies look like they are adjusting to the changes in water chemistry well also. My orp is reading 337mV I thought that maybe the probe was dirty so I checked it with redox test solution and it's reading good. I almost fell over when I saw that my orp went up 44mV in 24 hours. Only been cleaning my glass every other day now. And I forgot to mention that yesterday I started removing my cheato going to remove one handful a day and see how it goes. So far so good will let y'all know if it goes otherwise. Oh and the rice still seems to be holding up after being tossed around in salt water for a week.

[kkil4life]

this is really interesting stuff i can't wait to see what happens.

How long do you think until the rice gets all mushy and gross?

It has been at least a week and the rice still not close of getting mushy.

I think it have to do with the temp.

Its been a little over a week, and the rice is still holding strong. I think its because the temps are not too high thats why its still not become mushy.
overall I think it should be fine for atleast a month or 2, as long as the tumbling is not too vigorous or anything like that.

[kkil4life]

Wow that's pretty awesome man. I'm going to order some test kits this week to get some real numbers to post. Should have picked them up before starting this but oh well.

everything seems so good about rice, its almost like its too good to be true.
infact, it even adds a little calcium and magnesium and other required trace minerals.

it just might be the next big thing after live rock as far as filteration is concerned (bio-pellets aside).

[kkil4life]

Did the family thing today so I didn't get to Check all my params but everything is looking great. All corals look fine getting good polyp extension and colors. My lps seem ok scolly, blasto, and and chalices looking good. zoas and softies look like they are adjusting to the changes in water chemistry well also. My orp is reading 337mV I thought that maybe the probe was dirty so I checked it with redox test solution and it's reading good. I almost fell over when I saw that my orp went up 44mV in 24 hours. Only been cleaning my glass every other day now. And I forgot to mention that yesterday I started removing my cheato going to remove one handful a day and see how it goes. So far so good will let y'all know if it goes otherwise. Oh and the rice still seems to be holding up after being tossed around in salt water for a week.

its a good thing that u are measuring the orp since I dont have an orp monitor.
I think I need to do a little water change and remove a bit of rice.

if more people are willing to try the rice, we can even figure out how much rice is required for each system.

[elijaher]

Rice user keep up with the good work hopefully this be the next thread of the month.

[kkil4life]

haha, didnt even think of thread of the month
what would be really cool is if people started using rice as their main biological filteration system, and if this rice thingy really kicks off, WOW

[elijaher]

It kicking off nicely.

[elijaher]

Rice user you have taken a change to try to see if it work.

[BlueFaceAngel]

From reading the thread it seems to be doing more harm than good...

[kkil4life]

From reading the thread it seems to be doing more harm than good...

WHAT??
how can you say that?
results have been positive, there have been NO cause of concern and there was NO harm done whatsoever.

so how can u say that its done harm?
u're the first person to say such a thing, so when u say somehting like that, care to back it up?
we have backed up our results with pics

[kkil4life]

also bluefaceangel, all the side-effects that we've noted, i.e the hazy water etc are ALL NORMAL reactions to carbon dosing, be it vodka, vinegar, sugar, bio-pellets.

so get ur facts right before you say something like that

[kkil4life]

update day 8

nothing new to report other than a few little point

1.water seems to have cleared up a little bit more, its just the dieing algae is causing bacteria to consume it and making the water seem just maybe 1% hazy or so.

2.skimmer is still pulling out a lot of gunk, I definitely think u need a very good skimmer for this method of solid carbon dosing.

3.all tank inhabitants are looking good, my sps is starting to get a little color back which had turned brown BEFORE starting this experiment. lps are opening up like before. zooanthids remain uneffected, mushrooms are getting used to the lower nutrients and starting to open up nicely.

4.no3 and po4 are undetectable.

I need to clean the algae off my glass and maybe use a mechanical filter for a bit to remove all the detritius thats accumulated, but thats totally not related to this experiment.

overall, I'm pretty satisfied with this experiment.

[Just2Many]

I was thinking of trying rice but I have only FOWLR don't think it would do much.

[kkil4life]

I was thinking of trying rice but I have only FOWLR don't think it would do much.

it will definitely bring down ur no3 and po4, plus u dont need to get gfo anymore

[elijaher]

Years ago a product came out said that it will kill all your algea in your tank. Reefer went wild and buy this product many reefers lost there live stock that they have for years. evertime reefer post there problem with this thay came up bull reason. It have be pull off market. You going to have a reefer said something that is not nice even that you stated the fact which is good. They still make joke's on vodka.

[Just2Many]

it will definitely bring down ur no3 and po4, plus u dont need to get gfo anymore

Yeah I haven't done GFO Yet but was going to. Right now I use Cheato But might definitely try it. Which reactor should I get? Looking at the singles on BRS and just run a tee off of my return pump or I have a rio 600 I could use? What do you think?

[noahm]

I would say from following the thread since the beginning, that it is a fairly low risk experiment after the fact. Issues like trace metals seem to have been addressed. The rice seems to hold up. The total P in rice doesn't appear to be an amount that could possibly create more phosphate problems. AND, it appears to be controlling NO3 and PO4. There have been a few side effects, but nothing detrimental and so far not permanent.

However, it is still just a series of on-the-fly experiments that have very few control conditions. To the naysayers, you should be opening your eyes to the possibility that this may work. To the rice bandwagon, stay vigilant and watch for problems. Theres still a long way to go.

Thanks for taking all the risks.

[kkil4life]

Years ago a product came out said that it will kill all your algea in your tank. Reefer went wild and buy this product many reefers lost there live stock that they have for years. evertime reefer post there problem with this thay came up bull reason. It have be pull off market. You going to have a reefer said something that is not nice even that you stated the fact which is good. They still make joke's on vodka.

I hope rice is not something like that, and the difference in rice and all those other products is that I'M NOT TRYING TO SELL YOU ANYTHING.


There have been a few side effects, but nothing detrimental and so far not permanent.

However, it is still just a series of on-the-fly experiments that have very few control conditions. To the naysayers, you should be opening your eyes to the possibility that this may work. To the rice bandwagon, stay vigilant and watch for problems. Theres still a long way to go.

Thanks for taking all the risks.

this is why I've been asking more people to try the rice out, that we can have a broader range of conditions with which people have had success. for all I know maybe the rice will not work with sharks or rays?
the more people that try this and confirm their success, then the surer we are that rice does not have any ill effects

[kkil4life]

Yeah I haven't done GFO Yet but was going to. Right now I use Cheato But might definitely try it. Which reactor should I get? Looking at the singles on BRS and just run a tee off of my return pump or I have a rio 600 I could use? What do you think?

hi, I'm not too familiar with either the reactor or the pump since we dont get them here. as long as you have a slight tumble in the reactor any reactor or any pump will do.
I suggest atleast 150gph for the pump, but I would be happy if you could check it out and report back on this thread about what works and what doesnt

[Haksar]

+1 noahm.
I am with the rice bandwagons.