New Tank - Dead Fish

[Cope413]

I just started my 2nd reef tank. My first was a 12 gallon. The new one is a 24g Aquapod.

I put in about 40lbs of live rock and 35lbs of live sand from a friend's established tank. He also gave me a leather coral. I have 12 blue-legged hermits, 4 cerith snails, 4 nerites, and 2 nassarius snails(sp?).

I didn't put anything into the tank for about 4 weeks. I checked pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels almost daily. Ammonia and nitrite are at 0ppm. pH is between 8.2-8.4. SG is 1.024. Nitrate spiked up to 40ppm but has now dropped to <5ppm. I've done a 4 gallon water change twice. Water temp is 80-81 because it's incredibly hot here right now and I don't have a chiller. I've floated a bag of ice a couple times to get the temp down if it ever went above 81.

After 4 weeks, I took a water sample to my local store and he confirmed my levels and said I should be good to go with some fish and a few more snails. I started with 2 blue chromis just to make sure they'd make it. I also got 4 astreas and 2 margarita snails. I acclimated them for 45-50 minutes - floating the bags and adding 25ml (a shot glass full :) ) of water every 5-6 minutes. Everything I bought died that night. I removed the fish and left the snails for the hermits. Waited a week - kept an eye on my levels and tried again except I acclimated for 75 minutes. Same result.

I have 0ppm ammonia and nitrite. Nitrates are basically 0. The snails and hermits that are in the tank are doing just fine - a few of the hermits have even molted and changed shells and the leather coral is very happy - so what is killing this stuff? What am I missing or doing wrong? I don't even know what my next step is.

Any help is much appreciated

[moparace]

Where did u get the tank from?

[Cope413]

Brand new from a local store going out of business

[moparace]

What is the temp of the water when you put the fish in the tank and what does it get over night?
Then around what is the temp at the fish store?

Is there a Big difference

[Cope413]

76-77 at the store. It only get to 78 at night. I check it before the lights come on in the morning. Both times I got fish I floated ice to get it to 79-80 before putting them in.

[TripleT]

How long is the drive home?

Oxygen exchange is not great in a small bag.

Next time I would try drip acclimating them in a brand new rinsed bucket, using 1/4 inch tubing. Tie the tubing in a knot to restrict the flow to a few drips per second. Do this for at least a half hour.

Let the drips disturb the surface of the water to maximize oxygen exchange.

Use a small heater if needed, to maintain proper temperature, but do not run the heater until completely submerged.

Transfer the fish as gently as possible using a net, or a plastic strainer, to avoid LFS water from entering your tank.

LFS water can easily contain traces of copper, meds, or parasites. No reason to increase the odds of introducing any of these.

Have you measured the salinity and PH of the water from the LFS? Next time save some straight from the bag, and test it.

You also want to consider buying a QT tank for future purchases.

[outy]

something esle is going that has to do with this being a new tank, not acclimation.

[Mikeygo1]

Where did you get your water, are you filtering it yourself or buying at LFS? if you are doing it yourself are you useing a mix or RO filter?

[Cope413]

Very short drive to the store... maybe 10 minutes. I have one of the powerheads aimed to break the surface of the tank - shouldn't that be enough for the oxygen levels?

I never transferred store fish water to my tank because they told me specifically not to because of the copper.

They used a refractometer to measure the salinity and said it was good.

I have a heater, it's set at 76 degrees - it's just hot here, so the tank is hotter - 80-81.

I have an RO/DI tank at the house and mix my own with H2Ocean Pro+

As I said, all my levels - NH4, NO2, NO3 are where they should be. SG is 1.024

This isn't my first reef tank. I've just never had issues before and I'm stumped.

What are possibilities with a new tank? And how is my leather coral happy?

I am starting to get a good amount of hair algae that I'm trying to remove manually. I think I also have the beginnings of 'slime algae', but it doesn't seem to be unusual. Hermits and snails are taking care of most of it.

[Cope413]

Also, the store i go to is very clean and well kept. I can test their water next time but I doubt that's the issue. They have some amazing coral pieces and fish that have been there for a long, long time

[Mikeygo1]

Sorry, I can't think of anything else that would kill off blue chromis like that they are strong fish, and it sounds like you did everything right.

[Cope413]

Should I try some carbon? Is there anything else that could be toxic to fish that I'm not testing for?

Did I just get unlucky?

[glextank]

How are the fish dying? Heavy breathing, lying on side, floating, how long does it take til they are dead, any signs of damage?

[Nanz]

I think its your dissolved oxygen content. For fish to die that quickly its ussually temperature(which you posted is fine), pH(which you tested) or dissolved oxygen. Get another fish and this time put an airstone in the tank connected to an air pump. See if the fish makes the night. If it dies then I would get a copper test kit and test.

[outy]

im going to go with the transfer of the SB to the new tank.

was it washed in fresh saltwater before introduction?

if not you could have allot of things going on

[Cope413]

The first 2 chromis made it about 6 hours. 1 looked fine, the other was breathing rapidly at first, but then seemed to calm down. I assumed it was just panicked from the switch. Checked on them a little while later, the one that was panicked had died and the other one went down hill right after.

The next two looked great from the minute I put them in. I even put a little food in the tank after about 8 hours and 1 of them was eating. All looked fine and the next morning they were dead.

I will try the airstone tonight. Would the dissolved oxygen levels have anything to do with the snails dying though? Just seems weird.

As for the SB, it wasn't washed. I just put it in and let it go until it stabilized. I did 10-15% water changes every 5 days. Once ammonia and no2 went to 0 I put the leather coral, hermits, and snails in.

[dcombs44]

You may try a poly pad to see if there's some dissolved heavy metal that's causing the problems. If there was any copper in your system, it'd kill all of the inverts before it killed the fish. You said you still have inverts living.

The poly pad will change various colors based on what it absorbs. That may clue you in on what's going on. Have you tested the TDS of your RO/DI water? Any copper lines in the RO system after the membrane? Any household cleaners, pesticides, herbicides, air fresheners, etc. around the tank or in the house? Any other tanks set up in your house at the moment? Have you gotten second opinions on your SG?

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=10421

[dcombs44]

You may also try getting a volt meter and testing for stray voltage in the tank.

[Stroob]

Did you shadow feed or anything in the 4 weeks you waited? How was the rock and sand transferred from the friends system to yours?

Anyone know for sure if Astreas and Margaritas are less tolerant of ammonia than the other inverts already in the system?

With you just now having HA and such it almost sounds as if your tank never cycled through or cycled through and most of the bacteria died off from not enough nutrient input. Not for sure if that would kill off both inverts and fish overnight though.

Definitely get your salinity checked by another test and see how it compares against your LFS water tested at the same time with the same kit.

[Cope413]

I did shadow feed. I left a couple of shrimp in there to break down and threw some marine-s in a handful of times. It definitely cycled - I saw ammonia and nitrite flare up and then go down (at different times). I transferred it in buckets with about 10 gallons of his water. The sand was never dry. Some of the rock wasn't fully submerged, but it was out of the water for 40 minutes max.

I will check the TDS today. What should I be looking for? As close to 0 as possible I'm assuming?

I did check to see if those snails were more/less tolerant to anything, but couldn't find much.

I will get the airstone and poly pad tonight and try some chromis again this weekend.

Thanks for the help.

[dcombs44]

I did shadow feed. I left a couple of shrimp in there to break down and threw some marine-s in a handful of times. It definitely cycled - I saw ammonia and nitrite flare up and then go down (at different times). I transferred it in buckets with about 10 gallons of his water. The sand was never dry. Some of the rock wasn't fully submerged, but it was out of the water for 40 minutes max.

I will check the TDS today. What should I be looking for? As close to 0 as possible I'm assuming?

I did check to see if those snails were more/less tolerant to anything, but couldn't find much.

I will get the airstone and poly pad tonight and try some chromis again this weekend.

Thanks for the help.

TDS should ideally be 0.

I may try something besides chromis if it were me. They can be finnicky, and are best kept in odd numbers. Often times, people will buy large groups of them and they often kill each other off until they find a happy number (usually an odd number). They are pretty in bunches, but not always the simplest to keep alive.

Fosters and Smith states that they are one of the easiest fish in the hobby to care for, but I've read numerous times on the boards here that they can be pretty tricky.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1686903

[EaZy DuZ iT]

Buy a yellow tail blue damsel, and let us know how it goes. Your problem seems very strange.

[dcombs44]

Buy a yellow tail blue damsel, and let us know how it goes. Your problem seems very strange.

While damsels can be a menace and hard to remove, it may be a good option. If a damsel can't survive, then something funny is definitely going on.

Hopefully the poly pad and such will give you an idea before sacrificing another fish.

[TripleT]

You may try a poly pad

+1

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_7x3d3Zs4IKUwp1iccP03ia9ewBfaME3lQMlrddNzS8j9O6o&t=1&usg=__o5ZuE_2kYCuykFydPhrviCNefHk=

or

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJRVcqOv7D-AYxmBOiQ9pQbdlN82FDyxAqSPfyYoZvMIaU__0&t=1&usg=__hDWrGlU-K6Sp7e1LZMcQDjIPPEg=

[outy]

you should not have changed water so much during its cycle, the tank did not really cycle you just changed out the water to bring toxic levels down [is what it looks like to me]

the reason the fish were up top is because the amonia effects the fish's ability to utilize o2 [oxygen]


the deep layers of a sand bed may have anarobic bacteria but its the top layers that have the benificial layers you need to help shorten your cycle.

your probably on the edge of finishing your cycle but livestock should not be introduced for a few more weeks and then maybe a few damsels to help build stronger layers of benificial bacteria

[mallorieGgator]

Do you have a top on the tank? Maybe you or someone got some air freshener or cleaning stuff into the tank? I know I had a fresh water tank that I had on my dresser and I wasn't thinking about it and got some hair spray and stuff (not on purpose but hust by getting ready in the mirror) in the tank, over about a week the fish died. Just goes to show that even that stuff can hurt a tank.