sump/fuge design.. help!

[a.browning]

I also posted this in the diy forum, but I know a lot more people will see it here. Also, this is my first ever reef, so I'd say it belongs here! If posting in multiple places if frowned upon, let me know!

I'm having a lot of trouble designing a sump/fuge combo for my limited stand space of my 55 gallon display (10.5 inches internal width of stand). This is the best plan I can come up with. I have an eshopps 75 wet dry (used as refugium in below picture) as well as a 10 gallon aquarium for the sump. The refugium is filled high but the sump is only about half full so it should have ample room for water in a power outage.. I'll figure that out later. For now, I just would like to see if this basic design would work, and what changes you all would make. Some of you may remember my thread a few days ago involving 2 10 gallon tanks, and we had concluded that they're near impossible to drill. However, in this design, I would be drilling a hole in the side of the eshopps wet/dry, which is thick acrylic, so I would not have the problems with the drilling like I would with a glass aquarium. I have put a lot of thought and time into this design, I would like to hear your opinions/critiques! And I know someone will say just use a 20 gallon tank, but it wont fit. This is the best I could plan with the space I have.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/pflueger6740/NEWSUMP.jpg

Theres a couple errors, and I forgot to add in a ball valve on the return to display and the line to the fuge.

Also, a few general plumbing questions..

1. Is it better to use threaded bulkheads or slip? I will be using a durso standpipe.

2. Would it be better for me to just T off the pipe to the sump rather than T off the return line?

3. I have a mag 5 pump.. will this be good enough?

4. I see people say that flexible tubing is better due to no 90 degree angles.. yet a lot of the "pro's" sumps are all the rigid white PVC. Which is better to use?

5. How many unions does one normally add into a set up like this? Do unions restrict the flow at all?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm very grateful for this site and I appreciate all the help!

[zachfishman]

I'd think that T-ing of the sump return would be better than trying to split flow from the return pump. This will save you a lot of fiddling trying to balance water flow going to the fuge.

[The Punisher]

I don't think balancing the flow will be a problem with the way you have it. You can set a ball valve to have a small flow through your fuge and whatever you pump in will overflow into the sump, no balancing at all.
1. I prefer slip bulkheads
2. I'd tee off of the return like you have it
3. A mag5 will work fine
4. Flex is easier to work with and you don't have to be so precise, that's why I like it
5. Place unions and valves where ever you will have to remove something, like pumps for maintenance

[KeMo]

+1 on the flex hose and T valve fitting.

[RocketEngineer]

1. Its a trade-off between being able to reuse the bulkhead if you change something but risking a leak or guaranty a good seal but being unable to reuse the bulkhead if you change the plumbing. I chose threaded bulkheads and made sure I had a good seal. Its a choice, both work equally as well.

2. If you tee off the return line, the water going to the sump has already had the large particles removed so they don't get a chance to settle in the sump and cause problems as they decompose. I use this method on my sump.

3. I use a Mag5 on my 75g and it works great. Throttling it back will help with the watts it uses without hurting the pump.

4. Its really a matter of how you want to do it. Me, I used black vinyl tubing with barb fittings on my lines as I was working with very slight offsets and tight quarters. Since my return pump is throttled back by about half, it works just fine. Remember that no matter what you do you want to support the plumbing so its not pulling on the tank.

5. The main union would be right at the pump outlet so you can disconnect the pump for cleaning. Any other is a matter of choice.


In the design, I would change two things:
a) Remove the sand in the refugium and instead support the cheato with a platform made of light defuser. This allows any detritus that collects in the refugium to be sucked out when you do a water change.

b) Remove the sponge from between the baffles. Its just not needed and is more likely to clog then to help.

Hope that helps.

RocketEngineer

[chimmike]

I'd think that T-ing of the sump return would be better than trying to split flow from the return pump. This will save you a lot of fiddling trying to balance water flow going to the fuge.

negative. there would be no difficulty in balancing what goes to the fuge via use of the ballvalve.

[a.browning]

thanks for all of your replies! I'm glad to see that my design should work! Just a few more questions.

1. As for the bulkheads, would it be better to use threaded on the "in tank" side, and slip on the part in "out of tank"? That way, you could just screw in the durso standpipe and remove it for maintnence. Same would go for the return pump. And if they leaked at all, it would leak into the overflow-- no biggie. If my logic is flawed, let me know!

2. I'm still debating between flex and hard pvc. Flex seems to be better at this point.

3. As for my skimmer, it only has to be run in 5.75 inches of water. I figured I'd put it on a stand to make it so the return pump section could be deeper, but I wasn't sure how high of a stand would be safe, as far as if a power outage occured. If anyone has any advice on this topic, it's greatly appreciated!

4. I'm going to scrap the 2 baffle w/sponge in my fuge, and just have one baffle with some eggcrate on it. I'm also going to get rid of the sand idea, and just have LR rubble. How much rubble is recommended? Does it make sense to put in a good 5-6 inches of it, then chaeto?

5. Would it be better to have the "overflow" part of my fuge go into the skimmer section, so it must pass through the bubble trap before getting pumped to the display?

6. Is schedule 80 really necessary? Isn't sch 40 perfectly strong for this?

7. bulk reef supply is out of pvc glue, where's a good place to get it? Do they sell aquarium safe ones at Home depot and places like that? Or is it all aquarium safe?

Sorry for all these questions. I just want to make sure I do this right the first time. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate all the help!

[a.browning]

Also, would it be better to use a large pvc for the refugium overflow? Large enough so there's really no way for it to clog?

[rayn]

PVC glue can be had at any hardware store. Get the purple primer too. Just make sure it is dry before any use. I've heard 24 hours, but I let mine dry for about two and was fine.

[Adam13]

Threaded vs. slip really makes no difference as long as it is done right. Do not PVC glue the standpipe inside the tank if you want to remove it to clean. A slip fitting will work perfectly without being glued. You will be surprised how difficult it is to pull a slip fit durso pipe out. Make sure your sump has room for the added water volume that will show up if you remove your standpipe to clean it.

Flex is fine, as was said earlier be sure to support it well so there is no stress on the bulkhead fittings. Just don't use anything clear. And flex isn't really all that flexible.

I wouldn't do much rubble, it traps detritus and ends up being a nitrate farm. Some bigger lr chunks could work, but as long as you have a lot of lr in your display the benefit of more in the fuge is not really there. If you are not planting mangroves or doing a dsb, just go bare bottom with your macro algae. I wouldn't bother with egg crate in the fuge. I like having all my mechanical filtration in one place. Since you are doing one overflow and splitting your return, just put all your mechanical immediately after your overflow.

I use schedule 40 with no issues. PVC glue is PVC glue. Buy at home depot etc... I let it dry triple the recommended full cure time.

Don't overflow your fuge into your skimmer area. You want your pods to be pumped back up to the tank, not spun out of the water.

Yes, bigger is better, less noise even though your flow will be small. There should not be anything that is capable of clogging pvc running through there anyway. You should have some sort of in tank primary restriction that stops big things in the tank from flowing down. slits, sponges, grates, whatever. Plus your mechanical filtration after your overflow will catch it well before the fuge anyway.

[chimmike]

don't scrap the sand. You'll be better off with sand than with rubble, IMO.