Chrysiptera hemicyanea,2nd generation.

[Luis A M]

I am proud to report that my baby damsels have grown up and are now producing their first nests,at the age of 11 months.
Compared to my previous experience with C.parasema,these hemicyanea have grown much faster.I think this is due to a better larval and juv.nutrition.
You can these fish and how I raised them at:

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=5330

and in the Nov/Dec issue of Coral magazine.

[ctenophors rule]

awesome luis!

cant wait to read your articles.

[Luis A M]

Something very unexpected happened.The breeding pair was sharing the tank with a smalish C.parasema (see http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=171&t=3888 )
When the hemicyanea started to spawn,they began to attack the parasema,particularly the female hemicyanea.Until that time,they had lived together in peace.I was going to remove this third fish,but after some time,aggression became less and less frequent,so I let the three of them together.
After some time,I began to suspect that the female parasema was spawning with the hemicyanea pair in an unexpected interspecific trio.At first,I saw what looked like two separate nests close to each other.But now the two females are spawning in consecutive days.All eggs are fertile.

Interspecific hybrids of marine fish have been produced before under captive conditions,but always when the forced partners had no choice to mate with a conspecific.
What makes this event so unusual is that the hemicyanea male mated with a female of his species and also with another belonging to a different species!:eek1:

I imagine this could happen because the two species are in fact very next of kin,what is called sibling species,that don`t interbreed under natural conditions because they don`t coexist.Hemicyanea comes from the Indian Ocean,close to Indonesia and Australia,while parasema belongs to the west Pacific islands.
Besides their different colour pattern,they are very similar in shape and size.Meristics (gill rake and fin rays count) are identical for both species.

[billsreef]

Quite interesting. Wonder if anyone has done DNA comparisons on the two species? With the identical meristics and interbreeding, makes one wonder if they might actual be the same species with some regional differences developed after considerable time of separation.

[Gary Majchrzak]

grats, Luis :bounce2::bounce1::bounce3:

[wdt2000]

S
What makes this event so unusual is that the hemicyanea male mated with a female of his species and also with another belonging to a different species!:eek1:


Congrats

Is it common for males to have multiple mates within their species?

[Luis A M]

Quite interesting. Wonder if anyone has done DNA comparisons on the two species? With the identical meristics and interbreeding, makes one wonder if they might actual be the same species with some regional differences developed after considerable time of separation.

Yes,DNA analysis would be useful.Luckily,it´s use is becoming everyday more popular.
The concept of "species" is in continuous revision and subject to endless discussion.In my book,if two forms derivated from a common ancestor that are separated ; show phenotypical differences,they are two valid species.
In my case,having been raised together, might have also been a factor.

[Luis A M]

Congrats

Is it common for males to have multiple mates within their species?
Thanks:cool:
It is common under natural conditions that a male damsel cares for a spawning site where two or more neighbouring females are allowed to spawn.
But in the aquarium you seldom find a spawning trio,the smaller female is usually killed by the other one.
Yet it can be done.Nelson Herwig (pers.com.)had a trio of parasema spawning in a tank at the San Antonio Zoo in the 70s.

[Luis A M]

I was raising a nice group of larvae which were very close to meta.Then they suddenly died,what is known as "DOA".:mad2:
Three survived,the smaller ones.Then I found another dead and I couldn´t see any living one,the water was becoming very dark of algae.
As days passed,I assumed all were lost and began emptying the BRT.Then I was nicely surprised to find two nice juveniles.:fun2:
I haven´t taken a side view from them yet,but they look like C.hemicyanea,i.e.not hybrids.

[Luis A M]

Thanks:cool:
It is common under natural conditions that a male damsel cares for a spawning site where two or more neighbouring females are allowed to spawn.
But in the aquarium you seldom find a spawning trio,the smaller female is usually killed by the other one.
Yet it can be done.Nelson Herwig (pers.com.)had a trio of parasema spawning in a tank at the San Antonio Zoo in the 70s.

Sadly,the "menage a trois" ended tragically :sad2:
The smaller parasema female was attacked by the two hemicyanea,especially by the female.I moved her to another tank,but she didn`t survive the wounds.
This is the end this weird spontaneous hybridization event.I put to hatch her last spawn.I am also raising a nice batch of offspring from the trio.Let´s see what shows.:worried:

[Luis A M]

But on the positive side,I am improving my damsel breeding skills:)
For many years,1 to 3 juveniles was the best I could expect to raise.This is what I call marginal success.See http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702475&highlight=success+with+fiji
But recently I could raise 14 damsels as published in the CORAL magazine.And in this last batch,over 50 fish made it to meta.This is a step forward,50 or more fish per spawn is commercial numbers,which could replace some WC fish from the Market.

[billsreef]

Perseverance pays off :thumbsup:

[NarakuAulonocar]

Louis A M,

Congratulations. These are one of my favorite damsels.
By the way, Do you know how to sex them? I want to keep a harem but I can't seem to tell.

Also, whenever I get a group they seem to slowly die from stress. sometimes when I change the water or move them to different tanks, they go into shock and die. Have you ever experienced this before? Would you thinks its due to parasites?

["Umm, fish?"]

Good job, Luis, and congratulations! I've always admired your willingness to work with these little guys, considering that there are so little financial incentives.

[Luis A M]

Naraku,sorry,I missed your post.Devils are sexually dichromatic,but in other damsels,the female is smaller,with a more round profile.A group of Chrysiptera will kill one at a time until a pair or sometimes a trio remains.
No clue about your problem.Damsels are in fact very strong and endure most anything.

Andy,how are things,are you posting somewhere?.Yet LFS take many damsels at a time,not so with clowns.

["Umm, fish?"]

Andy,how are things,are you posting somewhere?.Yet LFS take many damsels at a time,not so with clowns.

Things are good but busy. I've been consumed with work lately--my big client slightly changed their requirements of what I have to give them and it's required me to completely rewrite most of the software in my production cycle--so not a lot of time for fish research. Plus, I kind of figured that my first try with clowns wouldn't go so well. So, I've been trying to build growout tanks and find homes for the hundreds of little guys. Maybe my life would be easier if they had been damsels. :) And my F1 Banggais are finally starting to hold to term, so that's a time-suck, too.

My big winter project is that I have been trying to see if O. marina fed with algal pastes will work as a captive feed for Lima scabra. That seems to be going really well so far--my clam has been constantly getting deeper and deeper red-orange from the pale orange of the slightly starved one I got from the fish store--but I'm still in early days on the trial.

Between all that, I haven't spent a ton of time on the boards lately. I've been helping out at MBI and posting on my local boards, but that's about it.

[Luis A M]

Well,many of the juveniles turned out to be hybrids!.Colour pattern is clearly intermediate between that of both species,with the yellow area reaching the pelvic fins.
As soon as the fish grow a bit more,I will start making pics to document this unusual experience.

[billsreef]

As soon as the fish grow a bit more,I will start making pics to document this unusual experience.

So now your just being a tease :D

You know we don't want to be waiting for pictures :)

[jake levi]

You the MAN ! You are awesome Luis!

I got to admire and respect your persistence with these beautiful and hard to raise fish, you picked one of my favorites. Are you working with any of the Dascyllus also?

[Luis A M]

Tell me that,Bill.Waiting sucks!:fun2:
Jake,persistence is all what this game is about!:p
Chrysiptera have large larvae looking easy (well large as half a clown larva) and Dascyllus hatch very small in a prolarval stage.They like Chromis must be tough.

[jake levi]

Updates Luis??

The new pairs eggs developing?

[Luis A M]

Updates Luis??

The new pairs eggs developing?

Well,I am getting more F2 hemicyanea meta at 20 dah.But that is no news.:cool:
The hybrids will need about a year to start breeding.I´m sure they will be fertile.:fish1:

[jake levi]

You answered one question that I had right there, how old til breeding.

How many species of Damsels have you worked with ? Your logo is my favorite one. I have used the all blues for system and tank breaking in for years. And always felt sad about not rearing any, but always got off to something else.So I am really happy that you are working with them. A fish so hardy needs to be captive bred and raised for the hobby.

[Luis A M]

Jake,
I raised C.parasema: http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=171&t=3888

C.taupou: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702475&highlight=chrysiptera+taupou

and C.hemicyanea (plus hemicyanea x parasema hybrids):link above and this thread.

and expect to raise soon the all blue morph of C.cyanea.

[jake levi]

That is a VERY imposing list !

My other favorite is the Pomacentrus coelestis. Gorgeous, had a couple get killed by same tankmates and didnt replace them, but it would be worth it to set up a special tank for them and grow some out.

[Luis A M]

Well,many of the juveniles turned out to be hybrids!.Colour pattern is clearly intermediate between that of both species,with the yellow area reaching the pelvic fins.
As soon as the fish grow a bit more,I will start making pics to document this unusual experience.
Sorry to make you guys wait.Not terrific pics either.:strange:
But the Intermediate hybrid pattern can clearly be seen:



http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w133/magnasco/Crysipterahibridos024.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w133/magnasco/Crysipterahibridos025.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w133/magnasco/Crysipterahibridos007.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w133/magnasco/Crysipterahibridos012.jpg

[billsreef]

Very cool :thumbsup:

[hillscp]

That's amazing! Thanks for the link.