Stocking Options For A 29g

[TMF89]

Alright guys, I'm back at it again. I'm just trying to draw up a plan for a 29 gallon FOWLR. I figure I'll lay down my stocking idea, and then you guys can critique, and create some of your own.


I'd like one clown, I was thinking two, but was told they would be more aggressive if they were mates.

I've also got my eye set on the Bangai Cardinal fish, but I've read that the fish's minimum recommended tank is a 30 gallon. Would I be able to pull it off?

I've decided after looking at wrasses that I want one, because some of them are crazy colorful, lol. I was told I should be fine with pretty much any fairy wrasse?

Finally I'd like a goby, preferably one with personality like the lawnmower blenny or watchman, but I'm looking for color as well.

With those four fish in the tank, would I be able to get a fifth in, or would that be pushing it? Thanks guys, and I look forward to your comments!

[Toddrtrex]

What type of clown?

Think the cardinal would be fine.

I would not put any fairy wrasse in a 29 - just too active of swimmers, and get a bit on the large size.

Some gobies would work, but I would skip a lawnmower (( not all adapt to prepared foods, and wouldn't find enough food in a 29 )).

Depends on the type of clown, but I would not put more then 4 in that tank, and perhaps less.

[TMF89]

Too bad, some of those Wrasses are gorgeous! Are there any other subspecies of them that would do fine?

Honestly I haven't memorized the names yet, but I'd like either the traditional orange/white, or the all black/white ones. At most I'd only be interested in putting in two though.

[psykokid]

sixline wrasses stay small, but can be pugnacious little bastards once established. If you think of stocking one of these make sure its the last fish to go in..

as far as aggressive clowns go stay away from tomatos or maroons, as they are just evil once they get some size on them. Some A. ocellaris tend to be more laid back and not as agressive as others even as a mated pair.

Banggai cardinals are great fish, i have one in my 60 gallon. If you can find a small juvie and get an ok sized E. diadema (long spined black urchin) the small juvie may hang out in the spines of the urchin. If all else fails and the cardinal doesnt take to it they are good natural algae control.

As far as gobies, i've had diamond watchman, goldenheaded sleepers, and now a yellow watchman. The first two depelted the substrate of pods and stuff they eat and didnt eat enough prepared foods and died. The yellow watchman i have eats everything and hangs out with his pistol shrimp.. Since you are going fowlr a yellow clown goby would also work.

Lately i've been buying fish from established aquairums vs rolling the dice on wholesaler / lfs fish. Havent lost a fish other than an anthias that jumped and cooked itself on the crossbrace while the halides were on..

just think small on the fish front and you should be ok.. Steer towards fish that dont get too terribly large and you should be golden.

[Jerry W]

A pair of ocellaris clowns would work well. I'd cast a vote for a yellow watchman goby. mine is colorful and a real joy to have. A bangaii cardinal is nice. Other options would be a royal gramma or a purple firefish. Four small fish will be fine in that size tank.

[Newreeflady]

My ocellaris pair is def semi-aggressive- they put new tank mates through the paces. Any mating pair of fish is bound to be territorial. ...

That said, I think you should consider a clown pair- they are just much more interesting when paired than all by themselves. jmo. ;)

Definitely introduce your goby before the other fishes.

Intro order: 1) goby, 2) sixline or bangaii, 3) clown pair. I'd choose between the wrasse and the bangaii. I think the fast swimming wrasse will stress out the bangaii in that small of a system, and also you'd really already be stocked with just one of the two. jmo.

-A

[rssjsb]

My $0.02:

1. I would avoid the sixline. They're pretty, but in a small tank like that you're asking for trouble down the line. In fact, I would avoid wrasses altogether. As Todd says, the more peaceful ones will feel crowded in a 29 with a pair of clownfish.

2. When Todd said no more than 4, he meant fish, not clowns. I would do a pair of occellaris clowns in that tank - they're more interesting in pairs. Nothing bigger (no tomatoes, clarkiis, maroons), unless you're willing to have them be the only fish in the tank.

3. You might try a tailspot blenny. There are also a number of smaller colorful gobies you could add.

4. I would not put a longspine urchin in that tank. If they're happy, they'll grow quickly - I've seen one go from 2" to 10" inches in diameter within a year. Picture a spiky soccer ball in your tank.

Overall, my experience in this hobby is that fish get big faster than you would expect. Aggression takes a big toll on territorial fish (like sixlines, mystery wrasses, etc.) that are put in too close proximity in a fish tank. I know it's frustrating, but that's just reality. It's why people like me end up constantly upgrading and/or with multiple tanks.

[TMF89]

Alright, I think I'm good on the clowns, a pair of Oces. As far as the Gobies go, I'll look into them and see which appeals to me, then come back to you guys.

With the Royal Grammas, I looked at them, and honestly I'm not a huge fan. Not sure why, I think the really sharp contrast between the yellow and purple just looks a little fakey to me. I mean I know it's not lol, but I'd like something a little more natural, if that makes sense? lol

I do have a question though. I've been really interested in Mandarin Dragonettes, and I've done plenty of research and know how hard it is to ween them away from their copeopod diet. However with the Eclipse system, I have a two part filter system, the filter material in the first section, and a biowheel in the second, which also has the outgoing hole to the tank. Now I've been told by many people to scratch the biowheel. Would I possibly be able to put the filter material in that second section, and use the first as a super mini-sump/refugium for breeding pods? I could try and find some tiny screen to put in the sections like a divider to keep the pods in one section? The first section is about 10 inches long by 1 1/2" deep, and the second is about 8 inches long, and maybe 2-3" deep. Would either of those, or both, if I take out the biowheel and filter, work for breeding pods?

I've heard of people using sponges to breed them, so I was thinking I could put on in one of the sections.


P.S. Would I be able to get away with a Coral Beauty Angelfish?

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+16+438&pcatid=438

[Newreeflady]

You're not going to be able to have enough of a pod population for a mandarin. You will need to train it. You should decide if you do want one, and then wait to add fish until you have some pod population already going. Make the mandarin your first fish and train it to eat mysis. It takes patience, much like getting a lionfish on frozen, but I've done it so it can be done. It will not work well with other fish already in the tank, though, as the mandarin is really slow and may take a long time to learn to eat the mysis.

Coral Beauty, not sure. I have an African Flameback in my 20g with my ocellaris pair (that is the extent of the fish there) and it has done very well. Extremely peaceful, but very lively always swimming... really I'm excited to move it to my new 60g since it really really gets around. Some of the dwarf angels are not so peaceful, though. And, for all of them they may nip sps, fyi.

-A

[TMF89]

Reeflady, could you go into more depth on how exactly you acclimated your mandarin? I'm very interested in the fish, so if at all possible I'd love to have one.

[Newreeflady]

Basically I started him on live brine, then switched to frozen brine. When stuff fell to the rocks he stalked it, but often wouldn't eat it. So, suck it back up into the baster and let it fall again... eventually he got it. Then I switched over to mysis and had to use the baster again to let it fall, suck up, let it fall. This is how I trained my fuzzy lion as well, except started with live ghost shrimp, then freshly killed, then frozen, then over to silversides. All along the way you have to be patient and willing to hang out in front of the tank with a baster for a while in the case of the mandarin, or with tweezers in the case of the lion.

Good luck,
-A

[TMF89]

So you didn't even start him on pods? Why the switch from brine to mysis? I haven't had a marine tank before, so I'm not sure if that's obvious. Are they just cheaper/more accessible or something? And dumb question but what did you use, just a turkey baster?

[Newreeflady]

1) There were tons of pods in the system when I introduced him.

2) brine = low nutritional value; mysis is better.

3) Yep, turkey baster.

[Ranzan]

My friend has a watchmen Goby that has survived 2 tank crashes and a tank that got shattered. He had his tail eaten off by an evil cardinal fish and he is still kicking for 10 years now. Amazing little fish and tons of personality.

[TMF89]

Ah, so while he fed on the pods, you weened him onto the shrimp? Did you literally just keep squirting out the food right next to him until he ate it, or what?

[Stuart60611]

Not to turn you away from the direction you are heading, but I do have some other good suggestions yet to be mentioned. A flame hawk should do well and is an attractive fish loaded with personality. A royal gramma is extremely brightly colored, interesting, and would do well in that volume. A valentini puffer is also highly personable and would also probably be ok as the smallest of the tobys. I think a great 29 would consist of a single percula (false or real) clown, royal gramma, and valentini puffer. Or, you could substitute the hawk for the gramma. I would not mix the hawk and the gramma in that small of volume b/c they have been known to brawl (can confirm that they do b/c they did in my prior 34). I would not pair the clowns b/c bioload is sufficiently high in light of the puffer, and a 4th fish in the form of a mated pair is going to potentially create aggression issues, particularly when considering mixing the pair of clowns with the 2 othe semi-aggressive suggested fish.-

[psykokid]

Unless you can get one of the ORA mandarins that are tank raised and eating pellets/flake from the start then you may be sol unless you are willing to take the time to try and train them on dead/prepared like any scorp.

My mandarin was a rescue from a kid that had it in a nanocube. The fish was all skin and bones and i wasnt sure it was going to make it. I had a ton of live rock in my tank and tons of pods so he eventually recovered and fattened up. I had tried feeding mine live brine shrimp which he ignored. A couple of months ago i was feeding the rest of the fish small ocean nutrition pellets and i see him float along and suck one up. Weird i though, and waited for him to spit it out.. Thought it was a fluke and continued on my merry way. A couple of days later when it was pellet time again i watched him as they dropped and he went around sucking them up like a little hoover.. He was eating way too many to be a fluke so i dropped some more pellets in a ways away from where he was at. Once he mosied on over to them he went to work steadily eating them. I got lucky and had my mandarin convert himself..

also, a fridmani or a black capped basslet are nice fish as well for small tanks.

[Newreeflady]

Ah, so while he fed on the pods, you weened him onto the shrimp? Did you literally just keep squirting out the food right next to him until he ate it, or what?

What exactly do you think I've been describing? :p Yes, squirt, suck, try again. All near the mandarin. Honestly, though, it's not perhaps the best idea for a beginner to the hobby- you might want to get your feet wet with some easier fish first.

GL,
-A

[TMF89]

Fair enough. It was just a random thought I had while looking at the aquarium, lol. Would I be able to keep a smaller dwarf angel in there instead? I'm on my phone so I can't really look up the name, but I believe the one I'm looking at is called Fire or Flame angel or something.

[Newreeflady]

For sure, a dwarf angel would be a nice addition. I've never had a Flame, but I really love my African Flameback- like I said, lots of energy, and a good demeanor. It can get away from nippy fish because it's fast, but itself is not at all aggressive.

:)
Angela

[rssjsb]

One of the smaller dwarf angels, like the cherub, would be ok in a tank that size. Cherubs are a better bet in reef tanks than other dwarves and they stay pretty small.

I adore angels, and started to suggest it earlier, but didn't because cherubs and flamebacks can be really aggressive in smaller tanks. (I had one in a forty that killed a sixline.) Every fish is different, as Newreeflady's experience demonstrates. Newreeflady, do you know whether yours is from Brazil or Africa? One is rumored to be more aggressive than the other, but I can't remember which (or even if it's true).

[Newreeflady]

This is the fish I bought from bluezoo, says it's from Africa:

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productdetail.asp?cid=9&pid=136&did=1

[Newreeflady]

TMF, It looks like the Flame angel gets to be 6" long from looking at the descriptions, so I'd steer clear of that one. Look for one of the smaller dwarf angels- mine maxes out at 3".

-A

[TMF89]

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+16+438&pcatid=438

This was the little guy I was talkin about, wrong name, sorry. Says he'll max out at 4", and is suitable for a 30 gallon tank?

[Newreeflady]

Probably a better choice- really pretty fish. I'd look up some threads on the Coral Beauty to get some info on their demeanor first, though.

-A

[TMF89]

I've done a bit of research on the angels, and all the articles said they're able to be kept in small tanks, but with caution. Since I live in the middle of nowhere, I don't have many fellow reefers to try and give the fish to if it doesn't work out, and I doubt my two LFSs would take it, they're so small I pretty much have to order everything I want in advance. So I'm going to put the angel on the backburner as a possibility, but I'm going to keep looking for now.

Would I be able to put any wrasses in there? Some of them are really beautiful. I looked up reef safe ones with a 30 gallon minimum on LiveAquaria, and some of those flashers are gorgeous!


http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+1378&r=3122&s=ts&start=1&page_num=1&count=24

However this site lists a lot of the same wrasses, but says they're able to be in much smaller aquariums? I.e. a lot more are listed with a minimum of 30 gallons than the LiveAquaria site. Is that just because they're trying to sell more?

http://www.aquacon.com/ReefSafeWrasses_saltwaterfish.html

[Newreeflady]

Look at the smaller of the fairy wrasses (aka flashers)- I'd stick with something that maxes out below 4". Also, you need a tight fitting lid. Really. And, if the grating is large enough that the wrasse can fit through then it will. They are all jumpers.

-A

[Newreeflady]

Oh, and Aquacon is terrible, and yes, they want to sell more. Do not use them as a resource and do not buy from them.

[TMF89]

Thanks for the tips reeflady. So maybe the bangai cardinal, flasher wrasse, one clown, and either that angel or a goby? Maybe a goby since it's smaller than the angel there'll be less chance of aggression from everyone?

[JaceR]

Typcially with saltwater fish, and or more importantly Angel's Typically only reason for aggresion is being crowded in a small tank. with very little seperate territory... Also if a fish looks or has the same coloration or body shape. (tangs and angels Ecpshily) there will be more agression.
Tought I'd post here instead of Tcmas :)

[TMF89]

Thanks for the tip, would you suggest a different smaller fish, or do you think I could get away with the angeL/

[Newreeflady]

Thanks for the tips reeflady. So maybe the bangai cardinal, flasher wrasse, one clown, and either that angel or a goby? Maybe a goby since it's smaller than the angel there'll be less chance of aggression from everyone?

For a 30g tank I'd go with:

-A dwarf angel or flasher wrasse
-Pair of ocellaris clowns or the Bangaii cardinal
-Goby

The wrasse and angel will be fast and incessant swimmers- probably best to only have one of those in a tank your size or it will stress out the slower fish such as goby or bangaii.

Clownfish are just kinda boring all alone- swear it, they are so much cooler in pairs. You will have to buy a pair, or buy one very small clown and one larger one in order to pair them. Ideally you'd add the smaller one and give it a week or so to establish and then add the larger one (don't wait 6 months or the small one could change sex:p)

I don't know what type of goby you wanted to add to the tank, but you should add it before all of the other fish if you can. It is the most peaceful one and needs to establish so it doesn't get bullied.

You will need a tight fitting lid for the goby and the wrasse as both are going to jump (not maybe, they will, for sure.)

So, to recap:

Add goby, let establish for a couple of weeks
Add small (1") clownish, let establish for a couple of weeks
Add wrasse or angel, let establish
Add larger clownfish. (optionally, you can skip the clownfishes and add the bangaii here- if you are adding a baby bangaii, add it right in with the goby. Otherwise, if it's an adult, add it last.)
Done.

-A

[TMF89]

Thank you VERY much for the well-laid out stocking plan, that's really what I've been looking for. I do have a couple questions though. I REALLY like the bangai cardinal, AND the wrasse, the cardinal was one of the first fish I saw at my LFS, and I've wanted it since I've started putting this together. However the wrasse is probably one of the coolest fish I've seen, it's just so colorful for such a small package. Would I be able to possibly do two clowns, a wrasse, and a cardinal, and skip out on the goby?

[Newreeflady]

Thank you VERY much for the well-laid out stocking plan, that's really what I've been looking for. I do have a couple questions though. I REALLY like the bangai cardinal, AND the wrasse, the cardinal was one of the first fish I saw at my LFS, and I've wanted it since I've started putting this together. However the wrasse is probably one of the coolest fish I've seen, it's just so colorful for such a small package. Would I be able to possibly do two clowns, a wrasse, and a cardinal, and skip out on the goby?

If you carefully orchestrate the introduction sequence, yes, I think you could pull it off. Get one of the smaller of the fairy wrasses.

Your introduction sequence will really depend on the size/age of the fish you are getting. I'd put in the baby clown, then the fairy, then the larger clown, then the bangaii unless the bangaii is very small. If you are getting a baby bangaii, I'd put it in first and then follow the rest of the sequence.

Good luck!
Angela

[JaceR]

You're over stressing, Just add your fish and add them wisely.

[Newreeflady]

You're over stressing, Just add your fish and add them wisely.

He is trying to add them wisely- that is why he's here. This hobby is much more enjoyable when your fish aren't stressed out and dying of disease because you didn't do your homework;)

-A

[TMF89]

I realize I'm asking every question possible, but honestly until next weekend I won't be able to do anything, because that's when I move to my college house, so I've just got cabin fever. lol

Now about feeding, I've heard the common method is flakes/pellets one or two times a day, with special feedings of shrimp/other supplements every few days? Could you guys recommend feeding methods you use, and any particular brands? So I can get an idea of cost of that.

[Newreeflady]

Feeding is often a matter of personal preference, although some foods are particularly devoid of nutrition. I feed Ocean Nutrition Formula One and Two flakes, and Salifert Energy Plus Granular food mainly. Now and then I supplement with mysis. Some people put more frozen and less granular and flake so you'll have to decide for yourself. Any brand of mysis will do, but let it warm to RT then rinse it in a net or you'll add a lot of phosphate into your system.

-A