SALT is just SALT

[Airborne]

I started my tank with Scripps NSW ran this for about 3 months. My LFS was going out of business so I changed to another LFS that was mixing Brightwell Neo-Marine which I ran for about 3 months. I did not have any feeling either way about the salt. The they switched so I switched to I.O. which I have been running for 3 months.

There were absoultely no....0 differences in what the corals looked like or acted like given the changes. I am now thinking of getting away from I.O. and either going to D-D H2Ocean or Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

I called a new LFS and I asked i fthey had D-D. They said no. They also said that they have been in the industry for 23+ yrs and they have come to the conclusion that SALT is SALT. The only difference is price. Bottom line.

I think after all the switches that I have made and the continued SPS sucess, they must be right.

D-D is hard to come by but is cheaper than TMPR. I jsut want to get away from the bottom of the line SALT Mix. Mental hang up.

So even though TMPR is more money is is also more available.

[poolkeeper1]

Your Correct to a certain point, Most Salt is made by one Mfg and the only difference is the trace elements added to the salt. That's why they have different Ca, KH, MG etc levels mixed at the same salinity. For fish only tanks Salt brands matter little, But If you have a full blown reef with lots of SPS you will want a Salt higher In Ca, KH, Mg and so on. JMHO
Bill
PS, Thanks for your Service...

[TheH]

Salt is salt except for, well, bad batches. It's only intuitive to feel that more expensive salt undergoes a better QA before reaching you.

[Airborne]

Bill:

You are most welcome and thanks for the recoginition. Certainly appreciated. I do have a full blown SPS tank that is about 15 small colonies. LPS does not live well or long in my tank for wahtever reasons. I have given up as they all seem to melt away.

I am also a Disabled American Vet that does not get a whole lot of help from the VA. So I am looking for a quality salt without breaking the bank. I did notice that since I switched over to I.O. I always battle a algae problem. Only thing that has changed has been the salt mix.

Everyone local says to go to TMPR and do not look back.

Thanks again.

[Fig]

Bill, I say go ESV salt and don't look back.

[prospectclmt]

I have noticed differences like Better polyp extension and growth and color. I haven't changed anything else but salt from red sea cp to tm bio actif

[bertoni]

There are some design differences in products that might be relevant. The SeaChem Marine Salt has a lot of borate, and I wouldn't use it for a reef. Even the Reef Salt has more borate than standard saltwater. Some products have vitamins, and I'd probably avoid that.

[sirreal63]

For the most part I have to agree with Airborne, I have used many brands over the years with the exception of SeaChem. IO, Oceanic, Reef Crystals, Coralife, Tropic Marin. I correct the chem side before water changes to match as closely as possible current tank chem. Currently using Oceanic again, did not intend on setting up another reef, but it has become that. I avoided Oceanic for years, however, as it used to mix poorly. With new tank, I have not noticed any issues with it, other than it is cheap, which I am not opposed to.

Jonathan...have you an opinion on Oceanic, from a chemical side?

[kv2wr1]

Check out Aquacraft Marine Environment. Aquacraft is in Hayward, CA and maybe you could check them out sometime. I hear they have some nice displays there as well. I've been using Marine Environment in my nano and never had to dose in that tank (had a clam as well) or had to worry about algae. I used I/O to cycle my 40 Breeder and had all kinds of algae problems. Lesson learned.

[stanlalee]

I agree with the LFS for the most part. On low ca/alk/mg demand aquariums where your trying to avoid dosing perhaps the differences in salts ca/alk makes life more convenient. On a tank requiring dosing ca and carbonate daily salt make up makes virtually NO difference. I always find it funny when the zeovit user with full stocked established sps tank says they cant use brand A for their weekly 20% water changes because it has a dKH of 12 and zeovit recommends a dKH level of 7-8 as if using it will have a significant impact on dKH levels, nevermind 80% of the tank water is unchanged and their consuming 3dKH daily. using a 12dKH salt for 20% water changes wont even meet the carbonate needs for THAT DAY much less raise dKH. Mg might be the only testable element that depletes at a rate slow enough to warrant considering salt content. everything else is either unknown, untestable reliably or effects unknown so "bad", "good" , "better" and "best" based on all other elements is wishful thinking. I've used about 4 brands myself and have yet to watch everything drop dead or unexplainably take off after switching.
As for the borate in seachem salt, beyond false carbonate hardness readings is there any data suggesting seachem levels are harmful? I've used it for years too without any ill effects (I did stop using it because it wouldn't dissolve completely for me but the tank never cared).

[stanlalee]

Check out Aquacraft Marine Environment. Aquacraft is in Hayward, CA and maybe you could check them out sometime. I hear they have some nice displays there as well. I've been using Marine Environment in my nano and never had to dose in that tank (had a clam as well) or had to worry about algae. I used I/O to cycle my 40 Breeder and had all kinds of algae problems. Lesson learned.

and you've narrowed down algae to IO salt lol. if the salt caused algae issues shouldn't everybody see these results? you have a way of ruling out all other variables (such as rock and substrate content that could contribute)? did you test nitrates and phosphates of the IO mix or have some concrete data that concludes salt caused algae? did you test your water alone prior to mixing it with IO?

newly cycled tanks dont have the biological filtration to process nitrates/phosphates efficiently and if live rock from anywhere but a well established tank is used there is often excessive phosphorous and nitrate production from the die off still taking place within the rock thus if nuisance algae is PRESENT it will generally thrive early on unless significant measures (large frequent water changes, phosphate media ect) are taken hence algae blooms are common in newly cycled tanks regardless of salt brand and even expected.

[Garage1217]

I buy whatever the cheapest salt is "usually oceanic locally" as my mag addition & ca reactor keep things in check anyways. never saw the need to spend big bucks on salt.

[kv2wr1]

and you've narrowed down algae to IO salt lol. if the salt caused algae issues shouldn't everybody see these results? you have a way of ruling out all other variables (such as rock and substrate content that could contribute)? did you test nitrates and phosphates of the IO mix or have some concrete data that concludes salt caused algae? did you test your water alone prior to mixing it with IO?

newly cycled tanks dont have the biological filtration to process nitrates/phosphates efficiently and if live rock from anywhere but a well established tank is used there is often excessive phosphorous and nitrate production from the die off still taking place within the rock thus if nuisance algae is PRESENT it will generally thrive early on unless significant measures (large frequent water changes, phosphate media ect) are taken hence algae blooms are common in newly cycled tanks regardless of salt brand and even expected.

Well when I did a 5 gallon water change with it in my established nano. I got instant diatoms on the live rock a day later. This was the only parameter I changed. Before I did a water change in the nano, the only algae I had was coraline.

There's 2 things that could come into play here: 1 the salt or 2 the alk and cal two part used to buffer the salt.

On my nano, I did not use any alk or cal two part to keep the PH in check. I just did regular weekly 20% water changes and my alkalinity and calcium were fine (alk of 8 and cal of 480) with Marine Environment which may be overkill but it worked for me. I did not dose anything.

On the 40 breeder, I did use a 2 part so that could have some affects as well.

Diatoms feed off of silicates. So unless Instant Ocean is free of silicates, I should not have gotten diatoms in my nano since I did not have anything die in my nano or do anything different. I would like to see some proof that Instant Ocean salt is Silicate free. It doesn't state that it is on the bag that I bought which is my mistake for ever using it.

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv110/kv2wr1/P7240001.jpg

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv110/kv2wr1/P7240003.jpg

This is not that bad but it was noticeble 1 day after the 5 gallon water change with instant ocean. I mixed the IO with 0 TDS RO/DI water to a temperature of 78 F and 35 ppt or 1.026 a day before adding it to the nano.

I did everything the same as I normally do and the salt was the only parameter that I had changed in the nano.

[stanlalee]

IO is not out of line with any other synthetic mixes. A Diatom outbreak after cycling is normal (I would guess 9.7 out of 10 "new" set ups...excluding tranfers or using established biological content....have a diatom bloom right after cycling). it is more normal to have a diatom break out after cyling than it is to NOT have one regardless of salt.

http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/AWT_Salt_Analysis_0208.pdf

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1/view?searchterm=synthetic sea salts

I'm not implying a salt change couldn't cause any issues but at best it could only be a moderate contributer not the cause. Randy and a few others interested in keeping sponges dose silicate without diatom outbreaks.

[recife111]

They also said that they have been in the industry for 23+ yrs and they have come to the conclusion that SALT is SALT.
They are wrong,

Some salts use better quality ingredients which cost more, the cheaper salts are cheap for a reason. nothing is free in life.

[reef_doug]

IMO... some salt mixes have way too much alkalinity and vitamins. It's best to find one that works for you and your budget.

Keep in mind that many LFS are in business for a profit and selling premix salt water is usually a very small profitable item if done correctly (using good salt, proper salinity & RODI). Most LFS will skimp some where on their premix water; thus, always good to make your own. Many LFS will push one brand over another to get a volume rebate.

[dublo8]

They are wrong,

Some salts use better quality ingredients which cost more, the cheaper salts are cheap for a reason. nothing is free in life.

or maybe that's what they want you to think... hehe
There is a thread about salt content that is floating around here somewhere with actual real world data and contents of the salt and test results. (i'm at work and dont have the time to look for you sorry) Make your decision based off the need in your tank. if your dosing for something maybe try a salt with a higher value of that particular part try it out and make your decision then. i know were not all millionares but if you can spend a little more on a salt that will make up the need for another product that you are buying to dose your tank.

[poolkeeper1]

Bill:

You are most welcome and thanks for the recoginition. Certainly appreciated. I do have a full blown SPS tank that is about 15 small colonies. LPS does not live well or long in my tank for wahtever reasons. I have given up as they all seem to melt away.

I am also a Disabled American Vet that does not get a whole lot of help from the VA. So I am looking for a quality salt without breaking the bank. I did notice that since I switched over to I.O. I always battle a algae problem. Only thing that has changed has been the salt mix.

Everyone local says to go to TMPR and do not look back.

Thanks again.

I have used Coralife salt for way too many years to mention, But IMO it is one of the best salts for the price out there. We can get it here in Tn for as low as 42.00 for 150 gal mix (Pet Smart) and 45.00 all day long. IO is around 40.00 here. But i wouldn't use it for free LOL:blown:
Bill:dance:
PS I also have 95% SPS

[bertoni]

Instant Ocean is one of the cheaper salts, I think, and it seems to be a high-quality product. Lots of people are successful with it. There are some issue with it for people who want to run a low-alkalinity system, but in general, it seems okay. I used other salt products with no problem, too.

[jonbry123]

I'm not a chemist but have been in the hobby for almost 30 years. I've used so many different brands that I can't remember them all. I do disagree with the previous comment that in a FOWLR system the salt doesn't matter. Some of the fish I've had for years. Long term health is certainly dependent upon using a quality salt. I have used IO for more years than not however, some of the studies I've read on actual readings of ingredients are not what the manufacturer claims including IO. I've read the posts here on the new TM salt Bio actif i think it is called but find spending over a $100.00 with shipping hard to swallow as it is not sold here locally.

[HighlandReefer]

Feature Article: Inland Reef Aquaria Salt Study, Part I
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1

Feature Article: Inland Reef Aquaria Salt Study Part II
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1/view

These are older articles and some of salts have been reformulated like IO, which did quite well as far as heavy metal content. All the salt mixes are quite high in the heavy metals, much higher then we would like to see.

[Kahuna]

I just got a good deal on Sybon Reef Salt from Premium Aquatics. We'll see how it works out.

Airborne, from one disabled vet to another, thank you for your service.

Cheers!

Kev

[DeepSeaBeauti]

I am in the need of salt myself and am at a loss for answers. Ive been running tropic marin for almost 2 years. Saw aquaitro salinity, and well have not decided to spend the extra cash just yet.

[Kahuna]

I just got a good deal on Sybon Reef Salt from Premium Aquatics. We'll see how it works out.

BTW, the deal from PA is $49.99 for 150 gallons of reef salt and a free digital thermometer. Looking at the info on the bag o' salt, there's a buffering agent and 77(?) trace elements in this stuff. The info on the bag looks promising.

Kev

[recife111]

or maybe that's what they want you to think... hehe
There is a thread about salt content that is floating around here somewhere with actual real world data and contents of the salt and test results. (i'm at work and dont have the time to look for you sorry) Make your decision based off the need in your tank. if your dosing for something maybe try a salt with a higher value of that particular part try it out and make your decision then. i know were not all millionares but if you can spend a little more on a salt that will make up the need for another product that you are buying to dose your tank.

That is not what i want to think, it is from trying most salts.
I don't really care about the value of kh/cal/mag etc, it is more the quality of the salt,
some use food grade ingredients , some use a higher grade which costs more so the salt cost more.

Some of the Chinese salt is really crap. seen a few corals not look so good after using it,

[Garage1217]

And what salt is Chinese salt *LOL*

[HighlandReefer]

That is not what i want to think, it is from trying most salts.
I don't really care about the value of kh/cal/mag etc, it is more the quality of the salt,
some use food grade ingredients , some use a higher grade which costs more so the salt cost more.

That's what some salt manufaturers claim as far as using ingredients with lower heavy metal contaminates. Even if the manufacturer used some of the better grade ingredients, the heavy metal levels would still be quite a bit higher. When you analyize these ingredients by grade, their is not that much difference for food grade & above (unless you go to certified scientific grades). they would have to go to certified scientific grades of purity (which are extremely expensive) to make any significant differences. I don't believe they use these extremely expensive certified scientific grades at the prices they are selling their salt at. The above is why I feel the manufacturers will not disclose the heavy metal content in their salt mix. They certainly have the equipment to test for & provide us the results if their statements are true. If they expect me to pay the additional cost for their salt, they will have to provide testing evidence where their mouths are. My two cents. :(

[HighlandReefer]

Do any of the salt mix manufacturers claim they use ACS grade chemicals to formulate their salts? This is the only grade that has any actual meaning to it as far as impurities. Other then ACS grade, then food grade is as good as you get & their claims are meaningless. ;)

[Jaycen B.]

Do any of the salt mix manufacturers claim they use ACS grade chemicals to formulate their salts? This is the only grade that has any actual meaning to it as far as impurities. Other then ACS grade, then food grade is as good as you get & their claims are meaningless. ;)

Got ya, Brightwell Neomarine. I use it and have been for 8 mo. on my 210. IT IS WHAT THEY SAY.

[Jaycen B.]

http://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/neomarinet.php

[reef_doug]

An exert:
"This means that the majority of individual ingredients in NēoMarine are of USP or ACS Reagent grade, the highest levels of purity in existence."

In other words not all the chemicals are ACS or USP grade. I don't think any salt mix will use all ACS or USP.
TM claims Pharmacutical grade, for what ever that means too.

[HighlandReefer]

USP grade is the same as food grade. So they say they use both. All that means, is that they have to use is a pinch of ACS Grade to meet that statement. ;)

They are still playing with words IMHO, just like all the manufactuers do. :(

Boomer had quite a bit to say about the Neomarine salt in this thread. :lol:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677408&highlight=usp+grade

[HighlandReefer]

To further demonstate my statement:

http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23000/SLC5224

Calcium Chloride, Dihydrate, Reagent, ACS Grade costs:
500 grams $86.16 without shipping.

Magnesium Chloride, Anhydrous, ACS Grade costs:
500 g $97.54


This is just two componets of a salt mix. ;)

[Jaycen B.]

OK U win.

[HighlandReefer]

FWIW, I would prefer to loose, in the interest of our hobby. :lol:

[Jaycen B.]

I do like this salt mix. I'll give it the 3 year test and report back.:)

[HighlandReefer]

:thumbsup:

[Big E]

There's 2 things that could come into play here: 1 the salt or 2 the alk and cal two part used to buffer the salt.

You're forgetting the most important ingredient........the water. 90% of the time people have problems it's due to the source water that is mixed with the salt.

I've used IO for 20 years & never had any issues with algae. Full blown SPS tank up for 10 years & have kept Phosphates.02-.03 & Nitrates at 0. Fresh mix was always 0.
I do supplement to raise Calcium but other than that I never saw a need to spend the ridiculous amount of $ some of these manufacturers want for their salt.

[Genetics]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

Salt is not the same from a geographical or manufacturing standpoint. Now with that said, manufactured salt in our hobby is pretty decent across the board. Billybeau did a nice comparison of recent salt mixes standardized to 35ppt at 25 degrees Celsius.

[DrLabel]

What is the best maker of salt ???

[sirreal63]

What is the best maker of salt ???

It would be easier to answer that if you could define "best".