View Full Version : My 36G SW Tank Build Thread
Patrick Cox
08/21/2010, 03:50 PM
Well, the journey has begun. I don't know how I will do, what will end up in my tank or how long it will last - but I am excited to start.
This is a 35 gallon bow front aquarium with 40 pounds of live aragonite sand and 45 pounds of Fuji Live Rock. I added half the sand last Saturday and then the rock and the remaining sand on Tuesday. Today was my first water quality test. Here were the results...
PH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 1
Nitrate - 20
That was my best guess at the color match. Not sure if this seems reasonable or not. Currently I have an Aquaclear 50 filter running but it is not large enough to hold the media I want to add so I am switching to a larger filter. Not sure if I will change the rock placement or not but I am taking input! :D
Thanks for looking and I will report back soon.
Pat
Patrick Cox
08/26/2010, 06:38 PM
I just took my second water test today. I think I am making progress. Here were the parameters...
PH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - .25
Nitrate - 10
Three questions...
1. When should I add my first fish?
2. When should I start adding CUC?
3. One problem I seem to be having is salinity. My tests are all over the map. I can't seem to get a consistent reading. And I have good water flow.
Thanks all!
Pat
greech
08/26/2010, 07:47 PM
Three questions...
1. When should I add my first fish?
2. When should I start adding CUC?
3. One problem I seem to be having is salinity. My tests are all over the map. I can't seem to get a consistent reading. And I have good water flow.
1. Suppose it's open to debate once you are sure the tank is cycled but I would get a small CUC in the tank first. A few $0.99 snails or hermits are a good test and are typically less tolerant of poor water quality so if they make it a fish should be ok. Just go slow and test often.
2. See above but not until ammonia and nitrate have peaked and fallen and nitrates are ideally zero as well but a few ppm should be ok.
3. Sorry a few questions to answer your question:)
Is you water still mixing? Did you mix the water in the tank? If so with or without the rocks/sand? Assume you are using fresh RO/DI for to top the tank off when tank water evaporates? Using a hydrometer or refractometer? Using store bough pre-mix (may not be consistent)?
Basically you should get your tank to the desired SG and sort of mark the water level in the tank or sump if you have one). When you see it drop below that mark, fill the tank back up with fresh. When you mix/add your new water, double check your tanks SG and match the new SW up to that number.
Patrick Cox
08/28/2010, 06:55 AM
1. Suppose it's open to debate once you are sure the tank is cycled but I would get a small CUC in the tank first. A few $0.99 snails or hermits are a good test and are typically less tolerant of poor water quality so if they make it a fish should be ok. Just go slow and test often.
2. See above but not until ammonia and nitrate have peaked and fallen and nitrates are ideally zero as well but a few ppm should be ok.
3. Sorry a few questions to answer your question:)
Is you water still mixing? Did you mix the water in the tank? If so with or without the rocks/sand? Assume you are using fresh RO/DI for to top the tank off when tank water evaporates? Using a hydrometer or refractometer? Using store bough pre-mix (may not be consistent)?
Basically you should get your tank to the desired SG and sort of mark the water level in the tank or sump if you have one). When you see it drop below that mark, fill the tank back up with fresh. When you mix/add your new water, double check your tanks SG and match the new SW up to that number.
Thanks for your reply Greech. I measured salinity again today and it seems to be more consistent. I did mix the salt in a bucket before adding it to the tank but I did not leave the water in the bucket for 24 hours because I knew I was not adding fish soon. I am not sure of the impact on the test but sometimes I have forgotten to wash out my gauge so maybe that has impacted my tests some. What I was seeing was extremely high salinity so maybe there was residue on the needle?
Also, here is another update on water parameters. I see a trend developing! :)
PH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
I see a CUC in my future! If I add CUC with no fish do I need to feed the CUC?
Thanks!
Pat
Canadian Reefer
08/28/2010, 07:03 AM
Start with a small hardy fish, and a few snails and crabs. Be slow dont get to excited and add alot of fish all at once. Good luck and welcome to reefing!
mal7887
08/28/2010, 11:50 AM
I like your placement on the rock - looks neat.
You should wait AT LEAST few weeks and let your tank cycle before adding fish. I think it’s cruel to add fish solely for the purpose of cycling. Just remember the faster you go the harder you crash. :blown:
Here is a guide I read before I setup my tank a few years ago I found that it had a lot of useful information. http://www.fishlore.com/SaltwaterAquariumSetup.htm
Like the tank! Bring more pics when u keep upgrading
thebkramer
08/28/2010, 12:09 PM
:bounce3: WELCOME TO RC AND THE ADDICTION!!! :bounce3:
You're off to a great start!! Research, questions and PATIENCE are going to be your best friends over the next few months (and years!!) Tank is looking great and coming along :)
Remember.. there are no dumb questions.. only dumb answers!! :D :lmao:
Have Fun!! Can't wait to see your progress!!!
mikid
08/28/2010, 12:46 PM
any pictures yet??????....................:bounce3:
davocean
08/28/2010, 01:40 PM
Scape looks good, nice job.
Not sure what media you are looking to use, but typically we don't use anything except maybe carbon or sock filter for mechanical filtration.
I would probably just use another powerhead.
Maybe use your hang on for a makeshift fuge.
Nitrites and amo need to be zero, nitrates are ok though not prefered, most have some level of trates.
Most media is a nitrate sink.
steamer51
08/28/2010, 01:56 PM
A refractometer is more accurate for salinity than a hydrometer. They are ok for a while until you buy a refractometer (new or used, not much $). The main problem with hydrometers being way off is air bubbles under the needle when testing. Sometimes they are small and you don't see them but they try to float bringing the needle up higher than the reading should be. Place it on a level surface with test water inside and flick it with your finger until all the trapped bubbles are gone. I have even pushed the needle all the way down with a piece of plastic and let it rise back up releasing the bubbles.
seege
08/28/2010, 02:06 PM
I see you're using test strips... my LFS guy says it's ok but any high or unusual readings should be retested with drops. Seemed like good advice to me. Anyone else?
Patrick Cox
08/28/2010, 02:52 PM
Wow, lots of feedback today! Thanks all. I do have another picture to post today but I don't have any animals yet. Looks like Ammonia and Nitrite are Ok but not sure about Nitrate. Based on the parameters I just posted, am I ready for one fish and a couple CUC members?
Also, I moved a few rocks around to change the scaping a bit and I do have one concern. Two of the rocks on the top are fairly small and light weight and I am worried that they are at risk of being knocked off. The are seated OK but they will also wobble if I move them side to side. Is this something to be concerned about?
On filtration I ended up buying a canister and I put mechanical, carbon and Chemipure in it. The water is now very clean.
Thanks again for all of the input!
Pat
davocean
08/28/2010, 03:04 PM
Maybe epoxy the rocks down.
If you run a canister I highly advise removing all media.
Cuc's are usually to clean sand bed, wonder if there is much to clean yet?
I'd start w/ snails, maybe one small hearty fish, maybe a cleaner shrimp.
Agree test strips aren't very accurate and refracto is by far better than hydro.
Just2Many
08/28/2010, 03:12 PM
Love the rock work though.
Patrick Cox
08/28/2010, 03:22 PM
Maybe epoxy the rocks down.
If you run a canister I highly advise removing all media.
Cuc's are usually to clean sand bed, wonder if there is much to clean yet?
I'd start w/ snails, maybe one small hearty fish, maybe a cleaner shrimp.
Agree test strips aren't very accurate and refracto is by far better than hydro.
Thanks. Will epoxy work in the water?
On the canister I know I need to clean it regularly and I am not using any biological media, only for water cleaning and circulation. On the water testing, I am using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit. (drops and test tubes.) Yeah, you are right there is probably not much to clean up yet. I will do as you and others have suggested. One fish and a couple of snails and maybe a shrimp. I will also look into the refracto. Thanks again.
Pat
davocean
08/28/2010, 05:23 PM
Epoxy is used by just about all of us to glue frags or rocks down, yes, works fine.
Mavrk
08/28/2010, 05:42 PM
Start with snails for a week, then more snails and/or a shrimp for a week, then the fish you have waiting in QT can be put it. If you don't have a fish in QT, get a QT and put a fish in there. Keep it in there for 6 weeks (you can treat it for disease or not, up to you).
meco65
08/28/2010, 07:40 PM
Rock work looks great.
wallj
08/28/2010, 09:17 PM
hi pat,
im tagging along because i have the same tank.
2 questions
1. are you sure the tank is 35 because i bought what i believe is probably the same tank but its supposed to be 36 gal. bowfront
2. what lighting are you using?
also rockwork looks great way better than mine:cool:
Patrick Cox
08/29/2010, 05:58 AM
hi pat,
im tagging along because i have the same tank.
2 questions
1. are you sure the tank is 35 because i bought what i believe is probably the same tank but its supposed to be 36 gal. bowfront
2. what lighting are you using?
also rockwork looks great way better than mine:cool:
Hi,
You are right, my tank is an Aqueon 36G Bowfront. But what is a G between friends? ;)
Here is my light fixture... (30" version.)
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+12109&pcatid=12109
On the rocks, how many pounds did you buy and where did you get it?
Good luck!
Pat
Patrick Cox
08/29/2010, 03:28 PM
Well, I went to the LFS and purchased an Ocellaris Clownfish, three snails and a star fish that burries itself in the sand. As soon as I put the starfish in the tank it disappeared and I have not seen it since! :)
I do have a few questions now. First, just a couple of observations about the clownfish. When I first put the fish in the tank it hid behind the rocks and seemed to be very nervous. But after awhile it did come out from hiding. However I have noticed that it is staying on the left side of the tank. I suspect this is either due to the heater being on that side of the tank or my other thought is that I may have too much current in the tank and it can't make it to the right side. I have annotated a picture of the tank to show my filter intake and output and my PH flow. This is a 36G tank and is 30" across and I am concerned that I may have too much flow down the middle of the tank. So, question #1...
1. Any thoughts on the configuration of water flow in the tank and is the GPH too much? (750 + 250 = 1000 GPH)
2. Now my second question, I seem to have some loose debrie (dog hair, lint / dust....etc.) that is not being picked up by my mechanical filtration. It is floating on the surface but also being blown down the middle of the tank. I am wondering if my filter intake is too low in the tank? Or is there something else I should do with filtration or waterflow to more effectively capture all of the loose matter in the tank?
3. One more question - the guy at the LFS suggested I add biological media to my canister filter. He said that the movement across the bio-media will give me better bio filtration. That is different advice that I have seen around here. Any comments? It seems to make sense. I told him I had read on "the forums" that people worry about nitrates in that circumstance and he said as long as you do your water changes, you should be fine.
Finally, I moved my rocks around one more time and they seem to be stable enough now that I don't need epoxy. :) Also, I think this configuration works pretty well. I think it looks good and there are lots of hiding places.
Thanks all.
Pat
ps - Here is a link to a larger version of my tank image if you are interested.
http://patrickcox.smugmug.com/Aquariums/my-marine-aquarium/PBC201008295D-Mark-II2416/987015184_sBAJE-L.jpg
Patrick Cox
08/30/2010, 09:35 AM
Thought I would try again. Hopefully this is OK. :)
theatrus
08/30/2010, 09:49 AM
Well, I went to the LFS and purchased an Ocellaris Clownfish, three snails and a star fish that burries itself in the sand. As soon as I put the starfish in the tank it disappeared and I have not seen it since! :)
I do have a few questions now. First, just a couple of observations about the clownfish. When I first put the fish in the tank it hid behind the rocks and seemed to be very nervous. But after awhile it did come out from hiding. However I have noticed that it is staying on the left side of the tank. I suspect this is either due to the heater being on that side of the tank or my other thought is that I may have too much current in the tank and it can't make it to the right side. I have annotated a picture of the tank to show my filter intake and output and my PH flow. This is a 36G tank and is 30" across and I am concerned that I may have too much flow down the middle of the tank. So, question #1...
1. Any thoughts on the configuration of water flow in the tank and is the GPH too much? (750 + 250 = 1000 GPH)
Never :)
2. Now my second question, I seem to have some loose debrie (dog hair, lint / dust....etc.) that is not being picked up by my mechanical filtration. It is floating on the surface but also being blown down the middle of the tank. I am wondering if my filter intake is too low in the tank? Or is there something else I should do with filtration or waterflow to more effectively capture all of the loose matter in the tank?
A lot of people run with surface skimmers, due to using a sump. Some canister filters come with an addon surface skimmer, which will pull only the very surface water.
3. One more question - the guy at the LFS suggested I add biological media to my canister filter. He said that the movement across the bio-media will give me better bio filtration. That is different advice that I have seen around here. Any comments? It seems to make sense. I told him I had read on "the forums" that people worry about nitrates in that circumstance and he said as long as you do your water changes, you should be fine.
In a FOWLR/reef system, your rocks are your biological filter. Filter media would need to be cleaned regularly, and is more of a pain than its worth. I'd run the canister empty unless you want to temporarily use carbon or similar. You will gain more biological filtering capacity once bacteria has set up on the media, but there is no need for it in a properly rocked aquarium.
As for the clownfish, they are a hosting fish - they find an area of the tank, usually centered around an object (soft coral, algae patch, power head, etc), and stay there. They don't free-swim the tank by any means. Staying in one area of the tank would not concern me in the slightest, as long as the fish is active and moving about.
Patrick Cox
08/30/2010, 05:47 PM
Well, I have terrific news. After one day in the tank, my new clownfish has come out of his shell :) and is really enjoying his new home. I was worried about the water flow at first but he now seems to be really enjoying it. He is swimming all around and swimming in and out of the current. Now that he is really exerting himself, I am wondering if I should go ahead and feed him. The LFS told me to feed him only once or twice per week to start. I added him yesterday and have not fed him yet. I purchased some tiny frozen shrimp. I think I will go ahead and give him a small pinch but would appreciate input on how often to feed. Is a couple of times per week sufficient?
Thanks!
Pat
Patrick Cox
08/31/2010, 05:21 PM
I tested my water two days after adding my fist fish and a few CUC members and found the following parameters:
PH - 8.0 - 8.2 (This one is tough to tell but I have been buffering so it makes sense that it is higher.)
Ammonia - 0.0 - 0.25 (This one is hard to tell as well)
Nitrite - 0 (This one is easy!)
Nitrate - 10-20 (Again, I am having a hard time nailing the color.)
I have fed only one time and I plan to feed maybe 2-3 times per week for awhile. Thanks for any tips! Also clownfish is doing well. CUC have their heads in the sand. :D
Pat
Patrick Cox
09/01/2010, 08:13 PM
Looks like my Nitrate is creeping up. Should I do a PWC? Any other measures?
Thanks!
pat
PH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
Hermes`
09/02/2010, 12:31 AM
I did not see anyone mention this already, but a sand shifter starfish will slowly perish in a small/new tank - Not enough food to sustain it. I would hold the WC and let the cycle do its thing.
Patrick Cox
09/02/2010, 05:26 AM
I did not see anyone mention this already, but a sand shifter starfish will slowly perish in a small/new tank - Not enough food to sustain it. I would hold the WC and let the cycle do its thing.
Even with Live Sand being used in the tank? I asked the guy at the LFS about this several times and he seemed very comfortable that there would be enough food for the sandstar and the snails. If the concensus is that there is not enough food to sustain it, I will return it.
Also, at what point should I be worried for the clownfish? (In terms of the water parameters.)
Thanks,
Pat
Hermes`
09/02/2010, 03:36 PM
A Quote from Dr. Ronald L Shimek:
They move across the surface of sediments until they find an area that seems promising, after which they burrow down into the sediment, often rather deeply. While burrowing, any potential food items, and that may be effectively ALL animals, that they can catch are transported to the mouth, ingested and digested. When they are through cleaning the specific area of food, the stars surface to move to a new spot. They will generally not scavenge excess food remaining on the surface, needing instead to collect from below the sediment's surface. These stars need a significant variety of food for good health, and require a lot of food. The amount of animals in a rich sand fauna of a few square meters will support a 10 cm diameter star for no more than few months. Putting one of these animals into a tank with less than several square meters of sediment surface is condemning it to a slow death by starvation.
Heres the link, a good read http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rs/index.php
Hermes`
09/03/2010, 12:44 AM
Clowns are pretty hardy. I usually wait 3 weeks+ till I put in my next fish. Just test for NH3, NO2, NO3 every couple of days. Do WC to keep your Nitrates down. I would wait on adding anymore CUC, till you actually see some sort of algae bloom, don't add too many at first as they devour the food that's available fairly quickly and starve. I would hold on the hermits as they will target the snails for their shells(IME Blue legged are meaner than the scarlet). I don't have anymore Astrea Snails except for my 3 Turbos.
aleonn
09/03/2010, 04:21 AM
Definitely return the sand-sifting starfish. He won't die right away, but it'll be a sad, slow process.
Patrick Cox
09/06/2010, 07:04 PM
I just returned from a 4-day getaway and tank is doing fine. I fed my clownfish right before I left and right when I returned. I also took water parameters today. Here they are...
PH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10
Tank seems to be stable. Should I expect the Nitrate levels to ever decline? Or do I need to do PWC for this or is 5-10 good enough?
Also, the sand sifter star is now climbing the glass. Does this mean he is hungry and looking for food? (I am calling the LFS tomorrow to discuss the sand sifter star.)
Thanks!
Pat
Patrick Cox
09/07/2010, 05:02 PM
Ok, I have read a bit on Nitrates and it sounds like I am Ok with 10. However, I have never done a water change so should I? I am thinking yes but I don't want to if not necessary.
Also, I seem to be ready for a 2nd fish. Would you agree?
Thanks!
Pat
Palting
09/07/2010, 05:26 PM
Fish only tanks should do ok with nitrates up to 50 even. But,not sure you want to go that high before water changes, if anything else to avoid algae problems later. Plus, water changes would replenish used up substances like buffers. So, yes, I would start doing water changes now.
Absolutely time for new fish. Go for it :) . Adds another reason to start the water changes, too :D.
Have you started a logbook yet? If not, now is the time to do so.
spamreefnew
09/07/2010, 05:34 PM
once a day is fine. flake food or any combination of meaty/veggi foods is fine. just dont feed him one thing only for weeks at a time
Patrick Cox
09/07/2010, 05:38 PM
Fish only tanks should do ok with nitrates up to 50 even. But,not sure you want to go that high before water changes, if anything else to avoid algae problems later. Plus, water changes would replenish used up substances like buffers. So, yes, I would start doing water changes now.
Absolutely time for new fish. Go for it :) . Adds another reason to start the water changes, too :D.
Have you started a logbook yet? If not, now is the time to do so.
Thanks, will do. Currently I am logging Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and PH at least once per week, usually twice. Do I need to log anything else? I also track the dates that I add fish, CUC....etc.
Thanks again,
Pat
davocean
09/07/2010, 06:15 PM
I also agree 10-20ppm nitrate is no big, and FO can even be higher as mentioned, but still do WC's to stay on top of it.
Log bulb life as well.
Maybe a clown mate soon?
Patrick Cox
09/07/2010, 06:21 PM
I also agree 10-20ppm nitrate is no big, and FO can even be higher as mentioned, but still do WC's to stay on top of it.
Log bulb life as well.
Maybe a clown mate soon?
That is a good question. Would a second clown be a good addition now or something different? I am thinking I will have 4-5 fish in this tank (36 gallons.) I am not stuck on one vs two clowns but if the clown would like a friend then I will probably go that way.
Thanks!
bunzaroo
09/07/2010, 07:30 PM
Tank looks great. However you should look into the starfish. If it is a sandshifting starfish, they eat the microfauna in the sand and in a young system like yours it will probably starve in a couple of weeks. Just a heads up, try doing a search. Good luck..
rancoo
09/07/2010, 07:32 PM
I have two clowns and a lawnmower blenny and they are great
Palting
09/07/2010, 08:08 PM
That is a good question. Would a second clown be a good addition now or something different? I am thinking I will have 4-5 fish in this tank (36 gallons.) I am not stuck on one vs two clowns but if the clown would like a friend then I will probably go that way.
Thanks!
Two same fish always looks, well, cute, y'know? And clowns are probably the least bullying early fish. Plus they are easy to find, and immediately lets even the most ignorant guest know you have a SALTwater tank:). Get one that's a significantly different size, either smaller or bigger, than the one you already have. Makes chances of making a mated pair better.
You can then start making a list of fish you might like to get at a later date, so you have a list of compatible or reef safe fish. You don't want to get a fish, only to find out that a fish you would rather have is now not compatible.
Other than parameters, log any changes, like adding live rock, adding fish, any new equipmemt, replacing bulbs, cleaning pumps, etc. That way you know when the next maintenance is due, or can pinpoint any changes that may have brought about problems.
davocean
09/07/2010, 09:10 PM
It's all personal prefs, but if you do get a 2nd clown, make sure to get one smaller than what you have now, preferably close to 1" to make sure it is still a male, as there is already a good possibility what you have now may already be in process if not already is female.
Patrick Cox
09/08/2010, 08:05 PM
It's all personal prefs, but if you do get a 2nd clown, make sure to get one smaller than what you have now, preferably close to 1" to make sure it is still a male, as there is already a good possibility what you have now may already be in process if not already is female.
Thanks for all the great comments all. I really appreciate it.
On the clowns, I am heading to the LFS tomorrow where I bought my first clown. My first clown is about 1.5 inches long and when I bought him he was in a small tank with another about the same size. Also, he has only been in my tank about 12 days so my question is...at this point is buying a new one much different than buying two at the same time? (Since this one is pretty new to my tank and is young.) I am thinking about buying another about the same size. My long term fish plan is something along the lines of this... (and again, this is a 36G tank with 45 lbs of LR and 40 lbs of LS)
- Let's assume two ocellaris clowns for now but again, one would be fine if recommended.
- Six line Wrasse
- Cardinal Fish
- Clown Goby
- Snails and small crabs.
- I currently have a sand sifting star but I may return it.
Thanks for feedback!:thumbsup:
Pat
davocean
09/08/2010, 08:35 PM
Well, what you have now could still be male, most likely, but I would still seek smaller if they have it as first option.
Most likely you could get lucky w/ a bigger one/female, but that would be my 2nd choice, and only cause yours is so small/new.
First choice is best and best chance of minor or no aggression.
The clown goby will nip sps, so keep that in mind, other than that, I THINK it would be fine, never had a sixline, but think they stay small enough.
That would pretty much max tank.
Patrick Cox
09/09/2010, 05:41 PM
Well, I visited two fish stores today and they both recommended that I not add a second clownfish. They said it is best to add two at the same time and that it is likely that they will fight. So, I am reconsidering the 2nd clownfish. They didn't really have anything else I liked so I am waiting till the weekend when they will get in some more fish.
I do have a question...I am noticing some rust color "fuzz" that is starting to develop on my live rock. I am running my 10K bulb about 6 hours per day and my actinic bulb about 8 hours per day. The "fuzz" looks kind of like velour. I have not touched it. Is this algae that is starting to develop? If so, what do I need to combat this? I can take pictures tomorrow.
Thanks!
Pat
Palting
09/09/2010, 06:19 PM
My best guess, not seeing a pic, is that this is either cyano or diatoms. Whta's your nitrate level at now?
Patrick Cox
09/09/2010, 07:15 PM
My best guess, not seeing a pic, is that this is either cyano or diatoms. Whta's your nitrate level at now?
I have always been a bit unsure about my nitrate level readings. This one however is definitely 20. I tend to think that my previous readings have been in the range of 5-15. So, I cleaned out my canister and then I plan to do a pwc either tomorrow or Saturday. I will also take a picture of the coloration that is appearing on my live rock.
Thanks,
Pat
davocean
09/10/2010, 02:49 PM
Canisters are known to raise nitrates, especially if media/sponge is used.
Yes, clowns can fight, but doesn't mean you can't add one.
Just intro in a floating specimen container/breeder box.
Yours is still pretty new, I doubt you will have issues.
Patrick Cox
09/10/2010, 05:07 PM
OK, here is a picture of the algae that is growing on my live rock. Thanks for an ID and for treatment options. I plan to do a PWC tomorrow. I am also planning to reduce my light. Currently I am running Actinic about 8 hours and 10K about 6 hours. What would be a better schedule? I also added a cleaner shrimp and a cardinal fish today. More pictures to come. :)
Finally, are there any CUC members who would eat this?
Thanks,
Pat
ecomdesign
09/10/2010, 06:05 PM
looks like diatoms to me. Your tank (although cycled) is still very new and unstable. Most new tanks will go through a diatom bloom. I had a small one on my sandbed when my tank was about 2 months old. I left mine and it cleared on its own. It did take a few weeks though.
Hopefully others can chime in and help with thier diatom bloom experiences and what they did to get rid of it.
dbdisok
09/10/2010, 09:24 PM
I have just gone through a brown algae bloom. It is a PITA, but I am now winning the battle. I just used my turkey baster to blow the stuff loose and when it bets to the surface I suck it out. I also used my tubing while siphoning water out of the tank to vacuum the stuff off my rocks.
I added a media reactor with a phosban type material to help keep the phosphate level down.
Over a couple of weeks I have gone from heavy bloom to almost nothing.
Palting
09/10/2010, 09:36 PM
Yup, looks like diatoms. Time and maturity will take care of it. If it really bothers you, you can suction or blast it with a baster, but it will just come back. Just keep up with maintenance, keep your parameters in check, and this will go away.
Hermes`
09/11/2010, 12:21 AM
First the brown then the green. When you do get a CUC, slowly add them as too many will deplete the available food source quickly and starve.
Ethan_W
09/11/2010, 01:57 AM
As for the clownfish, they are a hosting fish - they find an area of the tank, usually centered around an object (soft coral, algae patch, power head, etc), and stay there. They don't free-swim the tank by any means. Staying in one area of the tank would not concern me in the slightest, as long as the fish is active and moving about.
both of my clowns free swim around the mid/top areas of my 29g all day and dont host anything
Ethan_W
09/11/2010, 02:09 AM
ok patrick, here's my advice to you. as far as feeding, you should be feeding your fish everyday. sometimes its even ok to feed saltwater fish twice a day. if you want to keep an anemone in your future or other corals and things, when your nitrates reach 10 you should be doing a water change. i change 15% a week. anemones like water quality with nitrates at 0-5, 0 being ideal.
as far as getting another clown im almost positive your clown is either a male or a juvi still so you can add another of relatively similar size, bigger or smaller, and they will get along eventually. just make sure it's the same kind of clown.
the diatoms will be eaten by your snails and disapear withing a week or so, just leave it be. your fish list looks fine to me, just dont get too carried away with it, and dont look at the tangs for a tank that small. good luck
Patrick Cox
09/11/2010, 05:50 AM
both of my clowns free swim around the mid/top areas of my 29g all day and dont host anything
My single clown swims freely at the top during the day and at night it has a single spot where it sleeps. Same spot every night. And if the water level gets too low it gets mad because it cant get to its spot! :)
Patrick Cox
09/11/2010, 07:21 AM
First the brown then the green. When you do get a CUC, slowly add them as too many will deplete the available food source quickly and starve.
Currently I have a sandsifter starfish and 3 snails. Should I add anymore CUC to combat the diatoms? If so, what would anyone recommend? Also I am probably going to add a second clown today.
Also, on the starfish, I noticed that he has been climbing up on some of the rock. Does the star eat the diatoms? He seems to be pretty healthy to this point. And the LFS assures me that they have kept sandsifter stars in smaller tanks with no problems. Not sure if I am going to return or keep him.
Thanks!
Pat
Hermes`
09/11/2010, 12:03 PM
I would return the sand shifter star because your tank is too small for it. It needs several square meters of sand to keep one healthy. Nice reading ----http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rs/index.php
wallj
09/11/2010, 03:45 PM
Hi,
You are right, my tank is an Aqueon 36G Bowfront. But what is a G between friends? ;)
Here is my light fixture... (30" version.)
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+12109&pcatid=12109
On the rocks, how many pounds did you buy and where did you get it?
Good luck!
Pat
Ok, sorry for such a late response, but i just read through the rest of your thread.
i looked at your light fixture looked pretty neat. for mine i have a 4xt5ho with 2 led moonlights and love it!:) my corals also really like it. if you plan on adding corals, i know you say fowlr. but i did too and ended up just starting to get corals haha also i have about the same flow as you i except i have (2) Koralia nano 425's plus 2 filter outputs and skimmer. as for the rock i was kind of a cheapy but i bought about 15 pounds of LR from the LFS and then i was on vacation in Florida and probably got another 25lbs from the ocean. not as pretty, but for what it would've costed buying all LR i like it. great looking tank btw
Patrick Cox
09/11/2010, 07:54 PM
Well, I added a second clown and they seem to be getting along great. These two were actually tank mates at the LFS and I purchased the first one a week or two ago and now I have purchased the other. They seem to really enjoy each other. I am waiting to see where the new one will sleep because the first one has his spot staked out already.
Question on the algae - should I reduce the time that my 10K buld is on? Would this help combat the algae?
Thanks
Palting
09/11/2010, 08:46 PM
If you want, you'd have to reduce both the 10K and actinic time. Me, I just let mine run it's course. Too much of a hassle trying to figure out what time I am home, how much time to allot to view and to do maintenance, etc, etc. Diatoms WILL go away with time. Trust me.
Patrick Cox
09/12/2010, 05:34 AM
If you want, you'd have to reduce both the 10K and actinic time. Me, I just let mine run it's course. Too much of a hassle trying to figure out what time I am home, how much time to allot to view and to do maintenance, etc, etc. Diatoms WILL go away with time. Trust me.
Thanks! Can you tell me your view on the impact of tap water vs RODI on this? The guy at the LFS was telling me that I would never be able to really get rid of this unless I switched from tap water to at least DI water.
Thanks again!
Pat
Patrick Cox
09/13/2010, 07:19 PM
Well, it is now all out war against the diatoms! :uzi: I just ordered a RODI unit from Bulk Reef Supply! Will be here on Wednesday. :dance: Any recommendations on a water change out program to get the tap water converted to RODI water?
Thanks!
Pat
twelvejewelz
09/13/2010, 08:09 PM
I would ditch the sand sifting star asap and i would also stop listening to whatever the LFS tell you. They obviously do not know much about saltwater if they are saying you cannot pair up your clown and that your able to keep a sand sifting starfish. Get a considerably smaller clown than the one you have as everyone says and you should be fine. But that star has to go, i think its one of those things that should be left in the ocean unless you have a 1k gallon plus tank. I dont think its fair to the creature to sit there and starve to death thats just my 2 cents. The brown stuff is just diatoms thats normal to have during the cycle process. The lighting is up to you really, you dont have anything in there that needs light atm so you can run the light as you would like. I personally run my lights at:
Actinic 1pm- 11pm
All lights 2pm-8pm
If you plan on adding corals though you should get a timer and put the light on a schedule to mimic the day/night cycle. This is an area where people will have alot of different opinions though.What works for one dosnt always work for everyone.
EDIT: I feed my fish 6 times a day in little feedings. I dont know where your LFS are getting there info from but you should point them in this direction. Would you like to eat 2 times a week? Thats a little ridiculous. You can get away with once a day thats just fine but not 2-3 times a week.You water will be perfectly fine as long as you stay on top of you water changes. Banded trochus snails are great and id swear by them :) .Also try and keep your water level as constant as possible because the evaporation can effect the salinity and have it sing alot.
davocean
09/13/2010, 09:15 PM
Ah dude, too bad you started out w/ tap, absolutely there is a huge difference between tap and DI, especially if you live in an area w/ high TDS.
It's going to be a little bit more of a challenge now, as phos tends to bind w/ sand/LR, but it will pass in time, just do good WC's.
Palting
09/13/2010, 09:52 PM
Tap vs RODI has more to do with the quality of water in your area. I know a lot of reefers who are successful wth tap water. Seems your lfs may know something about your local water, that's why he is pushing for RODI. My lfs actually uses tap water, and has been for decades, and he has good looking tanks. But, I went with the RODI anyway, just, well, just because, so there :).
Just keep replacing your evap and do water changes with the RODI, and you'll wash out whatever contaminants were in your tap water use. Any problems that arise in the future, well, that's in the future and we can deal with it then. There may not be any problems.
Patrick Cox
09/14/2010, 05:01 AM
Thanks all. Well, I think I finally found someone at the LFS who seems to know what he is talking about. He is the owner of the one that most people I talk to recommend. He is the one who urged me to switch to RODI. He said that best case our water is around 100 TDS and worst case in the summer it can be around 450 TDS. (I think he said the legal limit or maybe the water company's max allowable level is something like 500.) This is why I ordered the RODI unit. He also told me I would be fine adding a second clown and that has turned out to be the case.
I appreciate all of the support I have received here. I guess I need to return that sand star. I wouldn't want to be a murderer!
On my water changes. Should I consider doing a large water change like maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the water volume? What would be the impact on the fish? Would this help accelerate the elimination of the diatomas?
Thanks again!
Pat
Palting
09/14/2010, 08:37 AM
No, I would not recommend doing large like miore than 50% water changes unless there is a problem. Diatoms are not a problem, in a young tank. If you want to replace the tap water that was used, yeah, then maybe. But then again, any phosphates or silicates that have been introduced will have to slowly leach out before they are gone, so large water changes are not going to solve that problem.
BTW, large, even 100% water changes are not that stressful if properly done to solve a problem. Here is a link: http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/nitratecontrol/ss/sbsnitratereduction.htm
cdeboard
09/14/2010, 08:52 AM
Tank looks great. I love those bowfronts. You may have issues with that sandsifter in that small of a tank. They tend to starve in tanks that are either too small or not well established or a mix of both.
davocean
09/14/2010, 10:27 AM
I agree, don't waste on super large WC's, but don't relax on them either.
It's common knowledge here that many LFS either aren't straight up, or just don't know what they are doing.(contrary to what most newbies would believe)
You will start to have your knowledgeable/go to guys both here and there.
streak
09/14/2010, 03:23 PM
Just let that water age like 24 hours with an airstone in it before you do the waterchanges... I just picked up 3 buckets today just for that purpose along with 2 45 gallon trashcans 1 I am going to plumb to my ro/di unit..
wallj
09/21/2010, 01:54 PM
Any Updates?
Patrick Cox
09/21/2010, 06:25 PM
Any Updates?
Thanks for asking. Let me talk about my tank! :D
Over the weekend I installed my new RODI unit and have started changing out the old water for RODI water. I have changed out 3 gallons twice. Hopefully this will help speed up the elimination of the diatoms. My rocks are almost fully covered with diatoms and the sand has many spots of brown. My water parameters look good at 0 Ammonia and Nitrite, 5 Nitrate and 8.4 PH. I recently added Algone to my canister and I was buffering a little bit and somehow my PH has gone from 7.8-8.0 to more like 8.4. I have seen this reading for several days but I am not 100% sure what caused this. My fish are doing well but I can't get my cardinal to eat the pellets I bought so I will try Spectrum. I need a dry food he will eat when I am out of town. The clowns seem to like the pellets though. I bought Hikari Marine S.
I don't know if anyone saw my post on my water heater but I had a scare over the weekend with decals pealing off of my submersible heater and my tank looked like a snowglobe. This was a marineland visi therm. (I actually have two that bothed pealed so I would avoid this heater if I were you.) But I replaced the heater and all inhabitants seem to be fine. I have noticed that the two small crabs I put in the tank early on are gone but the snails are doing well.
If all goes well I will add another fish over the weekend and probably stop at 4 or maybe 5 at most. I am looking at striped wrasse.
Here are a couple of pictures from today. One of my tank and one of my "Aquarium Bathroom." (Sorry for the mess ;) ) My wife let me take over our extra bathroom that is right next to our office where the tank sits. So, all seems to be going well. :thumbsup:
Thanks again.
Pat
Patrick Cox
09/23/2010, 07:21 AM
All,
Currently in my 36G tank I have a Koralia 750 Powerhead on one side of the tank and in the back of the tank I have the output from my cannister filter. I am thinking that I should add one more powerhead to the other side of the tank and then I am considering adding a "wavemaker." Any thoughts on this for a 30" long, 36G tank? Should I add another 750 or maybe a 450 nano? Would this water flow be appropriate for my size tank?
Here is the wavemaker I am considering...
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18560/si3762819/cl0/jbjoceanpulseduowavemaker
Thanks!
Pat
floydie83
09/23/2010, 08:37 AM
Well, I have terrific news. After one day in the tank, my new clownfish has come out of his shell :) and is really enjoying his new home. I was worried about the water flow at first but he now seems to be really enjoying it. He is swimming all around and swimming in and out of the current. Now that he is really exerting himself, I am wondering if I should go ahead and feed him. The LFS told me to feed him only once or twice per week to start. I added him yesterday and have not fed him yet. I purchased some tiny frozen shrimp. I think I will go ahead and give him a small pinch but would appreciate input on how often to feed. Is a couple of times per week sufficient?
Thanks!
Pat
Lots of you fish will love the flow after a while and will play in it. I think my wrasse loves it the most. I feed every day, but just once. If he's eating I think you might as well go for it. Still, don't overdo it remember it has a small stomach. I usually feed live brine when bringing them home because most fish go crazy for that, but there is no nutritional value. After a day or two of brine I start with adding some frozen or pellets. A clown should take right to it.
Good luck.
Patrick Cox
10/03/2010, 03:07 PM
Hi all, just wanted to give an update on my tank and ask a couple of questions. Everything seems to be progressing very well. The tank has been up and running for about 6 weeks and I have finally gotten my Nitrate down to Zero! :celeb3: Parameters are Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0 and Nitrate=0. PH has been a consistent 8.4. I am running Chemi-Pure Elite, Algon and Carbon in a canister. Livestock is 2 small clowns, 1 cardinal, 4 snails, 1 cleaner shrimp and one small blue-leg crab.
The diatoms are finally clearing and they are being replaced by bright green algae. I just did a PWC and while cleaning the sides of the tank I noticed that the green algae does not come off as easily as the diatoms did. I guess this is normal. So, here are my questions...
1. Is there anything I special I should be doing with respect to the green algae? I am wondering if I need more CUC now that I am getting "real" algae. If so, what? More snails or more crabs? Maybe a new fish like a small rasse to feed on the LR? Any other actions?
2. The canister filter is a bit of a pain but I am not sure what I would replace it with. It is definitely serving a role. The filter pads in the canister are brown after a week so I am assuming that means it is filtering particles out of the water and I am also assuming this is what I want. But I believe most people don't run canisters so if I get rid of the canister, what would I replace it with? I am not sure I am ready for a sump and the space I have under my 36G tank is not that great anyway. So, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks all!
Pat
Palting
10/03/2010, 03:18 PM
GHA is part of the cycling process. As your live rock start processing the nitrate to nitrogen gas, it should slow down. Takes a while, though. In the meantine, you can scrape off the algae and siphon them off with PWC, you can decrease the light period, or you can start planning on a refugium.
I had a cannister filter on my older 110. Just wash those prefilters in tap water weekly to keep them from going biologic. I just did it as part of my weekly water change, and I did not find it to be a pain.
Patrick Cox
10/03/2010, 04:01 PM
Thanks Palting. I guess the GHA is the reason my Nitrates are zero? The canister is not that bad but maintenance would be easier without it. I can handle it though if it is the best non-sump solution. But if I need macro algae to control GHA as I have been reading, maybe I do need to find a way to incorporate a sump. But again it would have to be a small sump. Like maybe a 9" x 18" footprint. Not sure yet though.
What phosphate remover would you recommend in the canister? Thanks.
Patrick Cox
10/04/2010, 06:51 PM
I have been looking at sump options for my 36G tank and I found this Eshopps model that is about as big as will fit under my tank. Any thoughts on this? Would this benefit my tank vs my current canister? I was also thinking I could put some chaeto in here to combat algae.
Thanks,
Pat
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18365&cmpid=03csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&CAWELAID=529171313
Patrick Cox
10/06/2010, 03:31 PM
Ok, I found what looks like a pretty good sump option for my tank but I need some help.
Here is the sump I am looking at. They offer a 10G version that is 20" x 10" x 10" and I am trying to get one that is 20" L x 10"W x 15" H (15 gallons.)
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Standard-Acrylic-Sumps
I believe I will place mechanical filter media on the eggcrate at the input point. Then I was thinking about Live Sand and Algae in the center compartment and then a Protein Skimmer if needed in the last compartment, along with the output pump. Is this how you would set it up? Also, they will custom build so if I need the compartments to be a specific size, I can request it. Any recommendations?
Finally, since my tank is already up and running I guess I need an overflow box, correct? Any recommendations for a brand?
Thanks for any help or input!
Pat
dbdisok
10/06/2010, 03:39 PM
Here is a link to a company that manufactures the overflow box.
http://www.cprusa.com/products/overflows.html
I was in a LFS where they used one of these on a display tank in the store. It had a small pump called an "Aqua-Lifter" to prime the overflow should there ever be a power failure when you are not around.
The rule of thumb I have read in these forums is to get the largest sump you can fit under your stand. Other things to consider is the footprint of your skimmer and if your return pump is going to be an internal or external unit.
dbdisok
10/06/2010, 03:51 PM
You will want to run a skimmer in your sump. As to sand and algae in the sump, that is up to you. Some people argue that the sand in a sump is a place for detritus to develop and this requires additional maintenance.
Look at some YouTube posts on sumps and skimmers. I think you will see the value of a skimmer pulling all the nasty stuff from your system.
dbdisok
10/06/2010, 03:58 PM
If you are on the East Coast you might call Premium Aquatics. They are a RC sponsor and I have call this store and received good advice with any pressure to buy.
Patrick Cox
10/06/2010, 04:36 PM
Here is a link to a company that manufactures the overflow box.
http://www.cprusa.com/products/overflows.html
I was in a LFS where they used one of these on a display tank in the store. It had a small pump called an "Aqua-Lifter" to prime the overflow should there ever be a power failure when you are not around.
The rule of thumb I have read in these forums is to get the largest sump you can fit under your stand. Other things to consider is the footprint of your skimmer and if your return pump is going to be an internal or external unit.
Thanks, I will take a look at this. 20x10 is the largest footprint that will fit in my stand. And I think I will use an internal pump. Can the return pump be in the same compartment as the protein skimmer?
dbdisok
10/06/2010, 04:47 PM
Many of the sumps I have seen have the skimmer in a compartment where the water enters the sump. The return pump is in a compartment after a series of baffles (bubble traps). The return pump is placed away from the skimmer to avoid it picking up micro bubbles and sending them to the display tank.
Patrick Cox
10/10/2010, 03:03 PM
Well, I am not sure what is going on but the diatoms are back. My rock and sand were starting to clear and I was getting some GHA starting up and now all of a sudden my sand and rock are turning brown again. What should I be testing and doing? I am changing about 10-15% RODI water per week and I am cleaning my canister once per week. Water parameters have been good but I am only testing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH. The only thing I can point to is that I just replaced my chemi pure elite bag yesterday morning. Could that be causing the diatoms to come back?
Is there anything else I should be testing or doing? More water changes? I have thought about pulling all of my rocks out and cleaning them in fresh RODI saltwater but I am not sure that will do anything. I am just a little tired of the brown tank! OK, now that I got that off of my chest...
Pat
dbdisok
10/10/2010, 06:25 PM
GHA is a sign of excess nutrients in your water, as are the diatoms. A new Chemipure bag will not cause the diatoms.
A protein skimmer will help remove dissolved excess nutrients.
My tank is a year and half old and began to experience all sorts of problems. I read up on all the things I could do to solve my trouble. I was doing water changes and vacuuming my gravel. I spoke with the owner of a LFS and he pointed me in the direction of a product called Waste Away from Dr. Tim's Aquatics.
I called Dr. Tim and spoke with him about my situation and he gave me advice on how to use his product. I followed his directions and my brown algae is gone for now.
Here is a link to Dr. Tim's website.
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/
Palting
10/10/2010, 07:32 PM
Well, I am not sure what is going on but the diatoms are back. My rock and sand were starting to clear and I was getting some GHA starting up and now all of a sudden my sand and rock are turning brown again. What should I be testing and doing? I am changing about 10-15% RODI water per week and I am cleaning my canister once per week. Water parameters have been good but I am only testing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH. The only thing I can point to is that I just replaced my chemi pure elite bag yesterday morning. Could that be causing the diatoms to come back?
Is there anything else I should be testing or doing? More water changes? I have thought about pulling all of my rocks out and cleaning them in fresh RODI saltwater but I am not sure that will do anything. I am just a little tired of the brown tank! OK, now that I got that off of my chest...
Pat
Your tank is what, 6-7 weeks old? Patience, man. This, too, shall pass.
Patrick Cox
10/10/2010, 07:43 PM
Your tank is what, 6-7 weeks old? Patience, man. This, too, shall pass.
I understand. :) I just want to make sure I am doing what I need to be doing. I am not running a skimmer or reactor. If I added this would it help clear up the algae / bacteria and keep it clear? I know that if I add corals at some point I will want a skimmer so if it will help to add one now, I could go ahead and do so.
Thanks,
Pat
Palting
10/10/2010, 11:03 PM
Some may disagree, but IMO it's actually a good idea at this point to add both now if you have the funds.
Patrick Cox
10/11/2010, 04:57 PM
OK, I am going to look at a sump and skimmer. I will need an overflow box and that makes me a little nervous but the lifereef brand seems to work well. I will just take every precaution.
Another thing that could be going on is that I am feeding every day and I didn't used to do that but people were making me feel like I was starving my fish. But I am going to cut back to every other day. Maybe that will help as well and it seems that others do this with success.
BTW, my tank looks worse today then yesterday. :( Sand is becoming dark brown / red. Rocks are as well.
hiittman
11/04/2010, 07:41 PM
any update?
Patrick Cox
11/08/2010, 05:40 AM
Sorry it has taken me so long for an update but here it is. I decided to do a video. To me videos are the best way to communicate what is going on in your tank and I enjoy watching other people's videos so I hope you will enjoy mine. My sump should be here in a couple of weeks and at that time I will do a video on the sump and any other DT changes I make. Thanks for your comments!
Pat
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FmPvy19o7uY?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FmPvy19o7uY?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Patrick Cox
11/09/2010, 06:04 AM
Thanks Debi for renaming my build thread!
Patrick Cox
11/17/2010, 07:55 PM
Well, I purchased a piece of shelf eco rock and decided I wanted to reduce the amount or rock in my tank when I added this piece of rock. The tank looked great for a week or so and then some green powder algae started to show up. And I would clean the glass and the next day it would be right back. So I decided to test my water and I found that my nitrite had creaped up from the normal reading of 0 to .25. Ammonia was 0 and Nitrate was 0-.5. So, I performed a 10% water change and then I added a few pieces of the rock back to the tank. I am thinking I reduced my bacteria colony too quickly. However, this rock has been sitting in my garage for a week or so and it has gotten a bit cold here so I don't even know if the bacteria on this rock is still alive. So I have a couple of questions...
1. Am I doing the right thing by adding the rock back?
2. Would any of this be related to the green powder algae?
Any other thoughts / suggestions here? My tank is really still in the developmental stage so I anticipate more changes when my sump arrives and I know that my rock work is not how I want it.
Thanks for your input.
Pat
jloschen
11/17/2010, 11:49 PM
rock looks great hope you enjoy this hobby
Patrick Cox
11/18/2010, 09:27 PM
Well, just one day after adding a few rocks back to my system my nitrite and nitrate levels are back to zero. I currently have more rock in my tank than I want but I guess I will need to leave it there until my newer rock develops more bacteria and then I am installing a sump so I can put some LR in the sump. But I am now getting another diatom bloom. Oh well, I must be patient! :)
Patrick Cox
12/08/2010, 06:55 PM
I noticed today I am starting to get some deep red algae in the tank. Looks to be cyano. What is the best defense here? Should I step up the water changes? I will be adding a sump with fuge and skimmer in January.
Thanks
Pat
Patrick Cox
12/09/2010, 06:36 PM
Any suggestions for cyano algae in my tank? How frequently should I be changing water and what volume should I be changing? Anything else? THanks
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