Need Plumbing help!

[M3P]

I'm setting up a 200 gallon (7x2x2) reef tank. The sump that I had been using for African Cichlids isn't going to cut it as far as fitting the heater, reactors, and protein skimmer in it. Also I want a refugium. So I went out today, bought a new 55 gallon tank, had it drilled on bottom left side and on the drive home realized I am going to have a problem fitting it with the other sump set up. I'd like to run both. The left sump will have live rock in the area where the bioballs are and 2 reactors in the main chamber. The 55 gallon will hold my protein skimmer and refugium. The problem is that I am about 4 inches shy of fitting both sumps and the plumbing. If you have any ideas/suggestions feel free to chime in.

Here are some pictures to see what I'm talking about.
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad59/M3P1010/Reef%20build/sump1.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad59/M3P1010/Reef%20build/plumbing.jpg

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad59/M3P1010/Reef%20build/plumbing2.jpg

I believe if i cut the pvc at the top left and turn it to the left 90 degrees and then go to the left a little, turn 90 back up and go back a bit I can shave 2 inches off. Plus It will put me farther back (deeper) so that I can maybe p ut 2 45's on the other two pipes and sneak them around the 55 gallon when it is in place. The pump would then sit slightly in front of the left sump and go into the middle channel. Other ideas are welcome...especially those that will definitely work! If I go vertical with any of the parts what problems will I run into?

[fishnub]

Why not put the return pump submerged in the sump

[mike_cmu04]

I agree i would fit the return into the sump that should save lots of room.

[M3P]

So I should connect the two tanks with PVC and do something like this?
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad59/M3P1010/Reef%20build/Sumpidea.jpg

And have a slip screen at the points marked A

[uncleof6]

No, as the communication between the tanks will be sketchy and unreliable. You would be better off eliminating the first tank, in favor of the simple straight forward sump presented for your 55. "live" rock will create nitrates, and since flow rates in the sump are generally low, the "live" sand will simply become nutrient sink.

A simple flow scheme change and you are all set, with everything you NEED for a sump, without the headaches associated with multiple tank setups. If you simply must have a second tank, power feed it, but have it drain back to the main sump, no balance problems.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/sump3-6.jpg

Jim

[M3P]

Sounds like a plan. I'm new to the reef scene, so I have a bunch of questions.

1) The schematic shows 3 drainpipes. I have 2, so should they both go into the compartment with the skimmer?
2) Which compartment should I place the reactors in (middle or right?) I was thinking about 2 of those phosban 550 reactors
3) How much flow should I give to the refugium? I'm only running a Mag 18 on a 200 gallon tank, so would it be a better idea to run a small powerhead with tubing to feed the refugium?
4) Probably doesn't make a difference, but would you use plexiglass and silicone or a bulkhead and plug to fill the drilled hole in the tank?
5) Should I be using any sponge filters/filter socks on the drain pipes?

Thanks!

[uncleof6]

1) The drain system is a siphon system designed by BeanAnimal. At your flow rate, you may want to consider a siphon system, unless you like bubbles and unreliability in your drain system. Depending on what has been done to the tank already, some rethinking/redesign work will be needed.

2) What makes you think you need phosban reactors? Especially with what I am assuming is a new tank build or rebuild? Phosban is a double edged sword, and phosphates can be dealt with in other ways. Phosban can reduce phosphates (necessary for life) to the point of creating an Ultra Low Nutrient System (a desert) and becomes a limiting factor. It may not, but just a cautionary tale about introducing a method that may not be needed, too early in the tanks life. Reactors most appropriately, would be fed and returned to the "return" section of the sump, same as any other accessory, but really does not matter that much.

3) Does not really matter a great deal. Low flow causes detritus fall out, and high flow does not hinder the export functions. So somewhere in between is a good compromise. With a marginal pump for the tank size you may want to think a better/larger return pump, rather than a powerhead.

4) Excellent question. Considering silicone and acrylic don't play well together, it is bulkhead and plug. Bulkhead and plug is better than glass/silicone also.

5) No, they are just maintenance issues. Depends on whether or not you really want to mess with them. What we are concerned with in a marine system, cannot be removed by mechanical filtration, and what is removed is a natural food source for your reef.

Jim

[M3P]

1) I haven't had any problems with blowing air into the tank (unless the sump was running too low), so I think I will stick with the current drain system and see what happens with the new sump and change as necessary.

2) I should have clarified, but I'm not putting in reactors anytime soon...just planning for the future, but I will look into the costs/benefits of having different reactors now.

3) I am stuck with the mag 18 right now. I have a mag 9.5 also. If you have any ideas on using both in a way that they wouldn't be fighting each other that would be great (Maybe run the mag 18 to the left side of the tank and the refugium and the 9.5 only to the right side of the tank?...)

4) Plugging it is! I will put the plugged side on the skimmer side.

5) No sponges. I have seen egg crate used in sumps in attempt to keep snails and things away from the return chamber. Should I run egg crate from the top of the baffle to the top edge of the tank?

Any other tips are appreciated. I will begin construction sometime this week and hope to start filling the tank this weekend!

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad59/M3P1010/Reef%20build/100lbsofrockinthetank.jpg

[M3P]

Ok, so I think I've decided on running both mag 18 and 9.5. The 18 will supply the left return line and the refugium (from a T on the return line), the 9.5 will supply the right return line. To seperate the lines, I will put a ball valve in the center of my horizontal return line between the inputs of the pumps. I'll close the ball valve while running the two pumps and if I ever switch to a single larger pump, I can open that ball valve up remove the plumping from one of the pumps. If there are any objections to this idea let me know. Thanks!

As far as measurements go:
Refugium (left side) will be 20Lx13H
Skimmer area (right side) will be 15Lx7.5H
Bubble trap (3 baffles) will take up about 2.5 inches
Leaving about 11 inches for the pumps in the center compartment.

Thoughts?