Buying a New Carpet?

[bheron]

Hi all, I've had alot of experience and success in my tank with GBTAs. My tanks is in much better shape now. Today I saw a "carpet anemone" at PECTO. While I try to never buy from there it looked healthy and was half off at $25. So I thought, why not? I guarantee if I dont get it out of there it will degrade as everything else does.

So, w/out know exactly what type it is, I was thinking I'd take a shot.

I have:
220g display tank, 30" high/deep
8x80w of T5 lights driven by 3 ice cap ballasts w/ good reflectors
Water qual in great condition
Tank is over 1 yr old (since crash last year where I lost all GBTAs)


Any thoughts? Guidance? PS - I know they like to "eat" things like inverts and I love my inverts :-)

[Toddrtrex]

Would need to know what type of "carpet" before going forward, since the two common ones (( Haddonis and Gigs )) have somewhat different care requirements.

Can you at least get a pic of it?

[bheron]

ok, will try to go and snap a pic. also, will look online for pics and see if I can tell.

[bheron]

PS - what's "GIG" stand for?

EDIT: ok, looks like Gigs have long tentacles? this one def did not have that. still searching....
EDIT: S. gigantea

Finally, from Wet Web Media:

Stichodactyla gigantea (Forsskal 1775), the Gigantic (Carpet) Anemone. Family Stichodactylidae. Has characteristic deeply folded bare-appearing oral disc, rest of disc with short, tapering, blunt, waving tentacles that are very sticky. Often found attached via a relatively narrow column to something solid while surrounded by sand in very shallow water. Come in browns, blue, green, pink, purple tentacle colors. A beautiful blue specimen in Fiji and a close-up in captivity. Distr.: Red Sea, Australia, S. Japan to Micronesia.

Stichodactyla haddoni (Saville-Kent 1893), Haddon's (Carpet) Sea Anemone. Family Stichodactylidae. Variably folded disc surface, open near surface. Has a tentacle-free central area (10-20 mm.). Very small tentacles with narrow stalks, globose ends; internal rings have smaller tentacles than external, often vary in color. Have larger columns... Lives in sand in which it can/does completely retract when disturbed. Close up and overall images of aquarium specimens. Distr.: Red Sea, east Africa to Madagascar, Australia, S. Japan to Noumea.

Stichodactyla mertensii Brandt 1835, Merten's (Carpet) Sea Anemone. Family Stichodactylidae. Oral disc flat. Folded disc exceeding a meter in diameter in some specimens. Lives on hard surfaces that it covers closely. Small pedal disc, striated by disc-spreading verrucae of orange or magenta color. Short, finger-like tentacles (1cm) of uniform color. Have narrow columns of grey to white color. Close up and further back on specimens in Pulau Redang, Malaysia. Detail of mouth in KBR, N. Sulawesi, Indonesia. Distr.: Eastern African coast (excluding the Red Sea), to Australia, S. Japan, Micro- and Melanesia.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carpetanemones.htm


Will take this to PETCO...

[Toddrtrex]

And if it helps, here are some pictures of my S. Haddonis,

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/Red13-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/greenhaddonicrab.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/BWsaddleback2.jpg

And they will sometimes have a stripe pattern,

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/greenstripe.jpg

[bheron]

thanks. BTW - absolutely stunning pics! Those are som lucky fish/inverts :-)

[curlykid]

stain master's pretty good.

[bheron]

Ok, at the store now. Def a Haddi for sure. Ok color. Mouth is open tho, def gaping IMO. Maybe I'll try to offer them a deal and try to save it. Nothing makes it too long at my PETCO -- or any I've been to for that matte.

[flare1185]

hmm can u haggle with petco? let me know how it turns out

[bheron]

well i got it. (nope, no haggling. the people there are pretty much robots). Anyway, aside from the open mouth it really seemed to be responsive. And, its pretty huge. when opened it might be up to a foot, who knows. But for 1/2 price at $25 I figured we'd both take a chance with each other.

its downstairs now acclimating. Forgot to pick up the krill so will have to go back and get some.

[Toddrtrex]

Make sure to acclimate it to your lights --- sure it hasn't been under the best lights for a while. I would use 3 layers of window screening b/t the lights and the tank -- supported by egg crate. Then remove a layer every 5-7 days.

Tomorrow or Sunday I would do a water change, and then run some fresh carbon.

[Ohio]

Keep us updated on how it does. I wish you the best. I would like to see a picture once it is settled in.

[mallorieGgator]

Good Luck! Pictures?

[Neogenocide]

subscribed, I want to see how this one turns out. Can't wait to see what you got for $25.

Scott

[bheron]

hi everyone thanks so much for your help and interest.

Ok, time for an update. Brought the new carpet home Friday night and acclimated it for a few hours. Here's some pics I took - this is a 15 gallon holding tank I use for acclimation. Its plumbed into my main system:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG00303-20100903-2355.jpg

You can see it had some trouble holding itself upright, which was worrisome. In the store it was seated pretty steady.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG00306-20100903-2359.jpg

Here's a shot of the gaping mouth, it actually worsened later

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG00308-20100904-0005.jpg

And then it did this, like I had fed it something, but it didnt:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG00307-20100904-0000.jpg

I didnt try to feed it and eventually shut off the lights hoping it would get some rest. The water quality in my tank has to be leaps and bounds ahead of Pectos. So I figured some time to recover would help.

Then, the next day I turned the light back on (the light over my holding tank is only a 30W flourescent $10 fixture from HD).

Here's how it looked yesterday - some of these were after I fed it. You can also see I used a small rock to help keep it proped up.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3646.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3645.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3649.jpg

So I fed it some pieces of krill and raw, fresh shrimp from the grocery store. It seemed to eventually eat all of it - it did the fold up which Im not sure if thats normal behavior when eating and so far I've found no remnants of leftovers in the tank.

Here's a shot of how the mouth looked later last night, 24 hours after being home:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3650.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3651.jpg

So, not sure if I leave it here where I can target feed and observe easily, but under weak light. Or should I move to the display which has better flow and much higher lighting? Of course I'd use the screen approach recommended by Toddrtrex. Any thoughts?

[elegance coral]

Tomorrow or Sunday I would do a water change, and then run some fresh carbon.

IMHO, that is a very important step. You don't want to skip that one.

You want to move an anemone as little as possible. If its foot is attached, I'd leave it where it is to recover. If its not attached, I'd move it to the display now. It NEEDS to hide its foot. I don't believe it can recover with its foot exposed. I would tuck it under a rock where it can dig down into the sand.

Those are low wattage lights, but its hard to say what the PAR level is on the anemone. Even low wattage lights can put out a great deal of PAR if the target is close enough. The lights seem to be very close, where it is now. It may actually have higher PAR now, than at the bottom of your display.

[bheron]

Ok. thanks. i remember toddrtrex saying something about a WC and carbon. Will do that today. Will check t osee if the base is settled. If not, I'll move it to the display with screening over the eggrcrate on my tank.

What about feeding? I figured the more I could feed it the better it would recover. But I guess you can overfeed.

[elegance coral]

What about feeding? I figured the more I could feed it the better it would recover. But I guess you can overfeed.

Feeding newly imported host anemones is a debated issue.

Personally, I've never seen or heard of any symptoms that can be positively linked to an anemone over eating. We know that newly imported anemones have gone for extended periods of time with no food and insufficient lighting. We also know that many of these anemones have shrunk and may be using their own tissues for nourishment. This indicates, at least to me, that food is critically important for these anemones. I have fed such anemones, small portions every single day with nothing but positive results. So, IMHO, yes. If they are healthy enough to feed, they should be fed.

[Toddrtrex]

I personally like to wait a couple of days, but that isn't super important. What is important is to make sure that you use small pieces of food -- too big of a piece may not get fully digested.

[bheron]

Ok, so this morning I check on the carpet around 9 and 10 am, all is fine. Looks just like the above picks. Well, about 4 hrs later I go back down and its completely degraded, shrunken down to almost nothing. The photo doesnt do it justice - it was really flattened to nothing for a bit.

This photo is actually shown when it puffed back up some, laying on its side:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3652.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3653.jpg


So, I immediately made arrangements to move it to the display. When I removed it from the holding tank it was somewhat holding to a rock, but not much.

Had a tough going b/c it wouldnt stay upright or plant its foot. I threw 3 layers of screening on top. Also turned one of my powerheads back on. Am pretty much expecting to find it toppled over again when I go back kdown. This is what it looks like in the display (man those screens really work)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3655.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3657.jpg

I removed the backing on my display and took this from the back

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3659.jpg

In the end I wedged another rock to keep it in place:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3660.jpg

Anyway, I have a feeling Im going to lose this one. Maybe the lights and improved current will help?

:sad2::sad2::sad2:

[bheron]

Update to the above post. 1-2 hrs later and I feel like its actually starting to gain a footing in the sand. its def better than it was before, so maybe there's progress here. the body of the coral is still compressed but its "folds" seem to be open and healthy. mouth is still open.

[bheron]

Latest update is all good news!

The carpet actually seems to be fully anchored in the sand, color looks good and the mouth may even be starting to close a bit. I'm running a new dose of carbon and am mixing a new batch of SW for a change later in the night.

[bheron]

Final update for the day. Just performed a 5% WC (I have a large system and do 5% a week). Maybe I should do a larger one?

Anyway, things are looking better. My clown has even started defending the carpet and claiming it as his own. Keeps poking at something in the middle of it and that worries me.

Anyway, last pics for the day....actincs on. Pics dont do it justice.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3663.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3664.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3666.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/DSC_3665.jpg

Maybe will be better after a good night's rest :-)

[bheron]

Latest update as of end of day today...

I'm thinking things are better b/c the carpet seems to be fully seated, but much lower to the sandbed. Is that normal?

Anyway, one of my clowns slept in the carpet last night and has fully claimed it. I'm wondering about this "symbiotic relationship" thing and hoping for some insight. Either my clown is slowly killing the carpet or he's working some miracle to help it survive. Here's why -- the clown spent the entire day picking at the carpet. First I was worried since some fish nip at coral. But this was different. I got a better view and noticed a brownish material coming out of the carpet's still partially open mouth. I've seen this before when one of my GBTAs went on me, so I feel like its a bad thing. On the other hand, the clown seemed to be "cleaning" and pulling the "gook" out of the carpet's mouth.

Hmmmm, any ideas?

[miguelp19]

That is what the symbiotic relationship between the anemone and the clownfish usually entails. The clownfish clean and feed the anemone for the exchange of the anemones protection. I think this is normal and the clownfish is most likely trying to help the anemone rather than trying to harm it. Especially since the clownfish doesnt seem to have much protection from wat i can see in your tank it is probably looking for a home asap. Anemones are very "special" when it comes to their acclimation needs. It'll stay there for a few days and it might move around in a week or two. good luck

[TDesaulniers]

That is what the symbiotic relationship between the anemone and the clownfish usually entails. The clownfish clean and feed the anemone for the exchange of the anemones protection. I think this is normal and the clownfish is most likely trying to help the anemone rather than trying to harm it. Especially since the clownfish doesnt seem to have much protection from wat i can see in your tank it is probably looking for a home asap. Anemones are very "special" when it comes to their acclimation needs. It'll stay there for a few days and it might move around in a week or two. good luck

The clownfish isn't "trying" to help the anemone. It's 100% pure instinct for this clown or for any clown for that matter to want to be hosted by their natural host anemone. That is backed up by thousands and thousands of years of evolution. The anemone is simply a safe haven for the clown and in return the anemone also gets protection from the clownfish against any anemone predators.

To the OP, your Haddoni looked pretty bad there but the latter pictures show signs of improvement. IMO, I would have avoided the acclimation process all together with your acclimation tank because in the end you were going to move it anyways. More moving means more stress. Best thing you can do is just leave it be and let it get acclimated to your tank conditions. I would try to avoid feeding it anything for at least a few days. Let it get situated. Hopefully that clown doesn't rough up the anemone too bad. A clown trying to host a new/stressed anemone is never a good thing. Good luck and keep us posted.

[OrionN]

I think your tank is much too new for an anemone. Good luck with it. Haddoni is an easier species to keep than most other host anemones.

[Fishamatank]

Some species of clowns are pretty hard on their host. They will pull on tentacles to try to puff the nem up to their liking. There are times when it is necessary to separate them until the nem is settled.

[bheron]

Thanks for all of the feedback. This helps alot as I go through this for the first time. A couple of comments:

miguelp19 - I have to agree w/you and think my clown is naturally "grooming" the coral, whether he intends to help it or not. You also said "Especially since the clownfish doesnt seem to have much protection from wat i can see in your tank it is probably looking for a home asap.". Actually, my clown current resides in a nice-sized sinularia located at the other side of the tank. She is the largest of my 5 fish.

TDesaulniers - thanks for the input. next time I'll think about skipping the acclimation for one of these. Reason I like to acclimate in the 15g is that I can reach it easily. once something goes in my 30" deep 220g tank its very hard to get to. It was very easy to target feed in my 15g. anyway, to your point, prob not worth it since moving these guys takes a toll on them.

OrionN - actually, I never stated how new my tank is. Its been up for over a year now. one clown in the tank is in its 7th year with me and the other is over 4 yrs old. anyway, the tank is pretty mature I just dont have alot of coral in it. up until a few weeks ago i had 9 fish.

I'll hold off on the feeding and continue to monitor. Thanks so much for the feedback all!

[OrionN]

Keeps poking at something in the middle of it and that worries me.
Aggressive clowns often dig into an open mouth of an unhealthy anemone and eat the inside of the anemone. This will kill the anemone. You should remove the clown for now.
Once the anemone settle in, you can try to feed it. Feed very small food and small amount of it at first until it can start to digest food. Carpets are fish eater and can heat huge fish (4+ inches tangs) but not right now. Flakes or small amount of chopped up fish or shrimp should be the first food to try. If you feed it too much food, it will regurgitate and deflated for a while.
About your tank age. You did not mention how old your tank is but it just doesn't look like an old tank to me. From the picture, I would guess it is less than 2 months old. I guess I was wrong.

[bheron]

Update:

Well, I'm sorry to say my carpet perished and so went my first try with one of these beautiful creatures. still 50/50 if it was doomed to begin with or it was something I did. But I definitely learned alot from this thread - thank you! - so that I'll be very well informed if the oppty comes my way again.

thanks all!