Concerned about my maxima...

[GarSrtn]

I added a T. maxima to my tank on Saturday. I placed it on the sandbed, and it has not moved much. It has, however, changed orientation a bit. One end of its shell is now in the sand to the point that its mantel and larger opening is flush with the sand.

I am concerned that the sand may damage the clam, especially if it enters the clam. Is this valid? Should I reposition the clam?

TIA

[SeanT]

Let it be.
Maximas tend to wander until happy.
They also have the ability to blow sand and other debris out themselves. As do all the clams.
Kind of cool to watch.

[a.p.17]

i would just leave him on the sand for awile. i have ten maximas and all of them are on the sand. they are doing great. is your light strong enough to reach him on the sand? sometimes it seems like the clam will move to a position that will allow them to collect the most light.

[a.p.17]

has your tank been running for more than two months? clams seem to do better in very established tanks so i would really watch him closely.

[GarSrtn]

The tank is 3-4 mos. old. It was an established tank that was purchased and moved in Feb. The Hamilton light rig has 1-175W 6500k MH and 2-95W WHO Actanics, and they are approx 4" off the water. The tank itself is 24" high; the sand bed is 6-8" where the clam is located.

My water parameters have been within normal limits for some time, with the exception of high nitrates. I suspect the high nitrate readings are related to the test kit or (more likely) the person performing the test. The resultant color of the test has never changed since I've been performing the test.

All other inhabitants have or are doing well. I did place a small piece of rock under the clam in the sand; the rock being approximately 20% the size of the clam. I'm concerned that the rock may not have been big enough.

The clam was acclimated over 6 hours to water and temp prior to introduction to the tank.

[ADS]

It sounds like your clam is settling into the sand. Maximas will burrow into sand to find something for their byssal fibers to attach.
The sand will not harm the clam. It will expell most of what enters it's siphon. The parameters are concerning. Could you have another aquarist or LFS check your water? Adam

[GarSrtn]

I am hesitant about moving the clam. It must be stressed enough from the relocation and introduction. How long should I wait to see if it has attached to the rock under it? Should I just leave it alone and let it move where it wants?

ADS:
It's not likely either of my LFSs would be able to reliably test my water. I am using a Salifert NO3 kit, but am not sure I am interpreting the results correctly. The color has always hovered around 25ppm NO3 when doing the medium range test. This evening I did the low range test, and the color was very close to 50 (which would be 5ppm). I'm thinking that my NO3 concentration is not as high as I've been thinking it was. What else about the params concerns you?

[ADS]

I would leave it alone as long as it is upright.
Parameters that I would be concerned about certainly would be increased nitrates. Does this represent a maturing tank or bioload excess? Both of these may be detrimental to a clams health. Also maintain stable pH, Ca & alk. s.g. should be between 1.022-26 ideally(low worse than high IMO).
Adam

[holeinone1972]

If he looks good, there is no problem with him being in the sand.

They are quite capable of blowing the sand out if it is an irratant.

Clams will eat up the nitrates also, as long as they are not sky high.

Rob
ECC

[Gary Majchrzak]

Rob beat me to the punch: Tridacna appreciate some nitrates!

[holeinone1972]

BTW Gary I was really sad that you did not make it to the Williamsport swap.

If you feel like a serious roadtrip come to mine. (end of June)

Rob

ps Some clam farms introduce nitrate on purpose to feed clams.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Rob- I am aware of the June meet at your house. I've already searched out your location on Mapquest!:lol:
I also have not forgotten the sponge frags I want to trade with you. {From a post long ago!}
I also have possible trades to complete with some other reefkeepers in your region. As of right now, I don't know if I'll be able to make it. But I can reassure you that I'd love to be there!

[ADS]

I agree w/ Gary and Rob that some nitrates and PO4 are important for growing clams, but a single clam can not process the excess nitrates from bioload imbalance in a system.
Before purchasing a clam, parameters should be stable(I encourage this w/my clients).
There are large clam filters for diverse systems that collectively can process bioload excesses. I don't think that a single clam can do this and it's certainly not healthly. If you need more NO4 or PO4 in your system you can occasionally overfeed. If you begin w/ some imbalance chances are one clam won't correct it.
As Rob said, Clam farms do use nitrates. But this is under ideal natural conditions in raceways that exchange with ocean water.
The studies have shown that while small additions of NO4 increased growth in baby clams excess NO4 was detrimental to their health and actually they grew less.
My suggestion is to identify the cause of the nitrate imbalance whether it be abherent testing or biofilter problem and correct it.
If you can't get someone to test your water-I'm close enough-send me a sample. Adam

[a.p.17]

its so cool that the clams just suck the nitrate out of the water. i have 16 clams in my tank and occasionally i overfeed the tank. even then my nitrates are always minimal.

[holeinone1972]

While you may not get a reading because the clams are processing them, high nitrates is definately not a goal.

5 ppm are no problem in a reef tank, but I always strive for zero.

Rob

[GarSrtn]

Ok. It's definitely moved. It's now in conctact with the glass from my tank. This makes me wonder if I have sufficient light. Is it more likely I am short on light, or that the clam is just being a light hog?

When, if ever, is a good time to see if the clam attached to the rock I placed under it? If it hasn't attached (say it moved off the rock), should I attempt to place another rock under it?

Thanks for all the help people, it's appreciated.

[ADS]

If the clam has good mantle extension and coloration is uniform-don't woory. I would however move the clam up on the rockwork now. It's been several days. Adam

[GarSrtn]

As an update, my clam died on Saturday, May 24th. After it's death, I did a lot of reading. I discovered that the circumstances around the death of the clam were quite similar to the disease scare of last year. However, responses to a post I made about the clam in another forum indicate that the death was a 'normal' death (possibly related to stress).

I created a page (http://web.infoave.net/~gsarton/reefs/clamdeath.html) detailing the death and my theory. I would be interested in any feedback about this.

[ADS]

Sorry for your loss. It looks like your clam had central bleaching on may18 around it's excurrent siphon. This progressed in the may22 photo to the entire midmantle.
Did it have the bleaching when you purchased it? If not I would look for heavy metal toxicity in your tank. A bad powerhead or pump. I would take them apart and check impeller assemblies. I have found in the past that some cheaper impellers will rust as they wear. Another way to check is to buy a kit which may be expensive or buy a metal adsorbent sponge and put it in the sump. They color change depending on what is in the water. This may help determine the etiolog. Adam

[GarSrtn]

I cannot say for certain about the bleaching prior to May 18. I had only seen a photo of the clam, and do not recall if it had any bleaching. The May 18 photo was taken less than twelve hours after the clam was introduced to the tank (it was introduced at 02:00 May 18, the photo was taken roughly 10:00 May 18). Is it possible that this bleaching would have occured that quickly?

What sort of heavy metal toxicity do you suspect? No other inverts show any signs of sickness (snails, crabs, worms, etc.).

I will dissasemble my pumps and powerheads to check for any damage.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I wouldn't bother disassembling your pumps and powerheads.
I highly doubt "heavy metal toxicity" caused the clam's death!

[ADS]

Clams are VERY sensitive to low concentrations of metals other inverts are not. Sorry, I have to disagree Gary. I would check everything before I write it off to another clam disease. Knop's book pg91-94. This clam may have had signs of toxicity prior to purchase and the stress of transfer may have resulted in it's demise. Or it developed toxicity over 4 days in a new system.
Certainly there are numerous reasons for why this clam may have perished. If you don't explore the possibilities you'll never know.
Adam

[Gary Majchrzak]

GarSrtn established his 60 gallon reef in Feb 2003.
I highly doubt that a toxic level of heavy metals have accumulated in less than 4 months in his system- but hey, you never know...
I usually recommend waiting to introduce a giant clam until a system has been running at least 6 months or so.
One thing that rarely gets mentioned- Tridacna can be sensitive. Especially Maxima's. I always recommend starting with a Derasa or Squamosa- and including a fish that eats clam parasites in the system.
For the record, I don't blame the 'clam disease' in this case, either.
But I do agree with exploring all possibilties.
I've yet to see any rusted impellers, but then again, I've only used Maxijet PH's and Little Giant pumps. Is there a brand known for corroding?

[ADS]

Thanks for the reply Gary. Unfortunately I speak from experience w/ 2 different brands-one the RIO and two was a Mag 9.5. Both pumps were actually running well and I decided to perform incidental maintenance. I noticed rust buildup next to irregular wear along the shaft. This may have been due to Ca buildup as is commonly seen w/ pumps running in a reef for months+. Or possibly a factory defect(?). I would have to defer to Randy on the effects of chelated and nonchelated iron but I'm sure this rust was detrimental to inverts and may have explained a mass snail death I had years ago. I didn't have clams in that system so I can't remark on their effect.
Newly established tanks also sometimes salvage equipment from old FO tanks treated w/ copper and other parasite remedies. This can also be implicated. I don't know if this is the case or not here.
I agree with the sensitivity of certain clams maxs and croceas primarily. Next followed by the size w/ smaller clams being much more difficult to keep in the <2in range.
The bleaching noted on this clam and it's sudden death may be caused by exposure to temp extremes but unlikely this time of year.
A cheap test again is to polyfilter the water as it exits sump to return to tank. Any metal or chemical toxicity should be appreciable in 2-3 days in the form of color change on the pad.
I have researched the disease theories and have also developed my own hypotheses.(probably the subject of another thread)
I do however question previous studies on water analysis from 'diseased' tanks after clam wipeout. I find it unlikely that there was no significant bacterial colony isolated from tank water in light of ongoing tissue necrosis in the water. That analysis is suspect to say the least.
Viruses as you know are not only difficult to culture but also $$$!
I doubt that type of analysis was done. Unfortunately the mystery continues. I hope this info is helpful and GarSrtn is able to identify the cause of his clam's death. Adam

[GarSrtn]

I probably did jump the gun on my diagnosis. However, it seemed to fall in line with what I've read. Most normal (sic) clam deaths occur over some time, often being attributed to starvation or poor water quality. Very often the owner reports having the clam for some time (months) prior to its demise. The few times a clam's death has occured within days, it has been the opinion of many on this forum that the clam was sick prior to its being purchased.

I had originally assumed that I had done something wrong to cause the clams death (including possibly not waiting long enough to buy one). Once I read the posts on this "clam disease", it occurred to me that my clam had exhibited those exact symptoms. Hence why I jumped on the disease diagnosis.

Again, I would like to know for what metals I should be testing? Will standard kits (Salifert) be able to detect metals within the range? Should I test at all?

If disease and metals are ruled out, how likely is it this clam was sick prior to purchase/delivery? Should I seek recompense/replacement for the clam?

[ADS]

Copper and iron are the 2 available to the hobbiest I was considering. Commercial devices can measure numerous metals but are expensive and unnecessary for your application.
Did you add any items to your tank from an old system that may have had some contamination or treatment? If not, I would question the source as you said. If this sale was hobbiest to hobbiest you may have some luck. Most (big)places probably
wouldnot guarantee after that period of time. Adam

[leykis1o1]

my clam has byssal fibers??..that explains it..i tried to move him and he is solid to my rock..how do i move him now?

[Gary Majchrzak]

GarSrtn- is that a type of Dottyback or a Black-capped Basslet in your aquarium?
leykis1o1- I'd move the whole rock if I were you- or else leave the clam be. I don't like cutting byssal threads. I never remove clams to feed them, either! JMO.

[leykis1o1]

so now i have to cut him off?

[Gary Majchrzak]

If you must cut the threads, try to slice them near the point of attachment to the rock. Place the clam on a shell or other moveable {smaller size} base because it will re-attach again!

[leykis1o1]

yah yesterday i was aranging some stuff and when i went to move him i was all..damn he is stuck.i fugured he must have atached somehow.this is my first clam...well i l;earb somthing new here everyday!!

[GarSrtn]

Gary:
I'm not sure to what you are referring. The only fish currently in residence are two small A. ocellaris. The black thing in the last picture is a small hermit (one of six left in the tank). It was picking things off the shell.

[Gary Majchrzak]

GarSrtn- I was referring to the unknown purple fish in this pic of your aquarium lifted from your website.
Is this the same aquarium the {now dead} clam was placed?
The fish can be seen underneath the cleaning magnet near the top left backside of the aquarium.
http://web.infoave.net/~gsarton/reefs/images/tank05apr03.jpg

[GarSrtn]

Ahh. I see now. That fish is an Orchid Dottyback (don't remember species name atm). It was traded to another reefer at zooqi's swap. The other fish in that pic is a green chromis (there were two in the tank, they were also traded). All three fish were evicted before the clam was placed. Currently, the only two fish in the tank are the A. ocellaris.

I guess I need to update that pic. That pic is pre-refuge. :)

[Gary Majchrzak]

Orchid Dottybacks {P. fridmani from the Red Sea} are a very desirable fish species to keep with Tridacna- they help to remove clam parasites. These fish are now available captive raised.

[GarSrtn]

I just thought I add this update...

The seller contacted me (he had been away for the holiday). He's informed me that there have been no (disease) problems with any other clams from his supplier. His supplier, in fact, is fairly reputable as well.

The retailer felt the most likely cause was the stress of moving the clam (a few others here at RC mentioned stress as well). Is this common with clams (to be so affected by moving)?

Gary -
P. fridmani also eats the crap out of everything else that moves in a tank. :)

[holeinone1972]

So sorry about your loss. I wish I could tell you exactly what happened. From your email about tank parameters and tank inhabitants, all look good. I have no solid info for you, relating as to a guess of it's death.

Gary,

If you are able to make it to my trade, I would be glad to let you pick out a replacement, even though it lived well past my guarantee. Email me for other info if you are able to make it down.

Rob
ECC

[nvillacci]

Hi, just wanted to say cool Officers Battlepod or Marauder in your personal pic. Hehe, hope you know what im talking about:)

[GarSrtn]

holeinone -
Thanks for the offer. I'll e-mail you about it.

nvillacci -
Actually, I thought it more closely resembled a Mad Cat. I'd have preferred a TDR-5S though. Only wussies drive NewTech/ClanTech. :smokin:

[nvillacci]

Id take a Stone Rhino over your Tbolt anyday:P