First Salt Water Tank

[Marmot74]

Hey Guys,

I am starting my first SW tank, been keeping FW tanks for years and it's time to make the jump :)

I want to do things right the first time so I am going to list what I have acquired so far and hopefully I can get some advice on what to do next! I will eventually want this to be a mixed system. Hard Corals with Anemones etc.


Equipment Purchased

180g Tank (72x24x24) - Dual Durso Overflows
6' IceCap Reef Illuminations (3x250w, T5 & Moonlight LEDs)
Custom Acrylic 3 Chamber Sump (Skimmer, Return and Refuge Chambers)
2 Tunze 6105's
Apex Controller
Octopus Super Reef XP3000 Internal Skimmer
Octopus Water Blaster HY7000W Return Pump
Aragonite Special Grade Reef Sand
API Test Kit
Refractometer
BRS 5 Stage RO/DI Unit
36W Turbo Twist UV Filter (owned from FW systems)
300W Heater



Equipment Not Purchased

Salt - Not sure what brand
Live Rock
Reactor



Questions

1. How much live rock to buy to start?
2. Cycle - Fill Tank, Mix Salt, Add Live Rock and monitor for 1 month?
3. Should I run Skimmer when Cycling?
4. If I got a reactor for Carbon & GFO should I start using it during cycle?


Any advice is appreciated!

Mike

[theatrus]

Welcome!

Looks like you got a good set of equipment. I have no major problems with any of it from a quality or appropriateness standpoint.

Salt -

I like Reef Crystals. Easy to find, consistent batch to batch, well balanced.

Live Rock -

Depending on your budget, you can always use some base rock or dry rock. Bulk Reef Supply has a collection of dry rock - I have 60 pounds sitting behind me and every bit of it is excellent :)


1. How much live rock to buy to start?


1-2lbs a gallon. Buy some, see how full it gets/what it looks like, buy more. As I said above, dry rock is always an option if you have some live.


2. Cycle - Fill Tank, Mix Salt, Add Live Rock and monitor for 1 month?


Sounds good. You can also fix salt in buckets while you fill, but since there is no live stock having some lingering salt on the sandbed shouldn't be an issue.


3. Should I run Skimmer when Cycling?


Yes.


4. If I got a reactor for Carbon & GFO should I start using it during cycle?


Mixed opinions on this.

[Marmot74]

Thanks for the advice!

Should I add the sand immediately for the cycle as well?

[theatrus]

Thanks for the advice!

Should I add the sand immediately for the cycle as well?

Unless you're going bare bottom, you want the sand before you place the rocks. It will help hold them, and if you do have a rock slide will buffer the fall.

[Marmot74]

Definitely not bare bottom. Is about 1.5 inch of sand enough? I am also using egg crate to protect the glass.

So whats your opinion on using GFO/Carbon during Cycle? :)

[UgoneBannas]

I really don't see the point of running carbon while its cycling. You will have to do a water change after cycling is complete anyways.

[jformani]

Check with your local clubs or Craigslist for cured live rock. You can find $1 pound and good stuff. Just make sure it doesnt have nuisance algae on it. Will save a ton of money. I would go with as much as you can afford up to 180-200 pounds. If you can get a deal on it buy it all and put the extra in your sump!!!

If you buy cured, you wont have much of a cycle.

Great list of equipment so far!

[IJayC1]

wow you jumped in feet first man! good for you! I personally would suggest going with cooked rock first, it usually cheaper and your SURE all the heavy metals and phosphates are gone, then get a 2 pound piece of rock from a TRUSTED source and seed the tank

[Marmot74]

I am still going back and forth between Live Rock Vs. Cooked.

What to do!! Argh...

[Neogenocide]

I went with mostly dry base rock, that way I knew any nuisance pests or algae would be kept to a minimum. If 6 months time, with good husbandry, they will bell covered in coraline anyway.

Scott

[Neogenocide]

Just to ad, I'm moving in a 180g from my 46 bow, and will be doing the same with mostly dry base rock.

Scott

[theatrus]

Get some live (40lbs or so), plus a whole bunch of base rock. Base is nice as you can still find some tonga-style branch rock.

[Marmot74]

Will any base rock eventually become live if the tank is seeded? The store local to me carries this.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=cs-rrock2

[Bigez]

If you're wanting to save on shipping costs and whatnot dry rock is a great way to start. Seeding it with a smaller piece of live rock will seed your tank with the color of coraline you like and the nitrifying bacteria that your tank will need.

[Marmot74]

I think I am leaning towards 100lbs or so of dry and then get like 50lbs of live to seed.

[jformani]

I think thats a decent mix. In 6 months you wont be able to tell the difference!

[Marmot74]

If I got all dry rock is there any other way to seed it besides live rock?

[theatrus]

If I got all dry rock is there any other way to seed it besides live rock?

Not really. The best way to transfer the various algae and microorganisms is on an established piece of live rock.

You don't need much - as little as 10% live vs dry will do it, it just takes longer to lose the "stark white" look and gain some natural color.

[Marmot74]

If I toss in my dry sand and dry rock is there anyway to start the cycle before I add the live rock (I want to get from a few different sources for variety) , just to get a head start?

[theatrus]

You could use the dead shrimp method, but depending on where you get the live rock from you won't necessarily get too much of a jump start as live rock dieoff might kick off a second cycle (if there is way too much ammonia in the system).

[Marmot74]

I have put in the rinsed substrate and I am ready to add water. Do I just add the water, add salt then turn on return pumps and power heads and let it mix?

[theatrus]

Its best to at least premix in a bucket before adding water, but I have mixed in the tank before without issue.

Pro tip: Add a dinner plate on top of the sand when pouring in water. It will prevent it from being stirred up and getting overly cloudy.

[Neogenocide]

I would fill with water, get all the pumps up and running so you have circulation thought the entire system, then slowly add your salt. You always want to add salt to water, not the other way around.

Also, if you haven't done so already, it's good to test how the system will respond in the event of a power failure. I do this with freshwater, as you don't have quite the mess if it doesn't act the way you designed it to and you spill water everywhere.

Scott

[Marmot74]

Yah I already did a leak test and a pump failure test with a fill of freshwater. Now I want to add the RO/DI water with the salt. Just seems like 180G+ Sump is a LOT to mix in buckets :)

[theatrus]

I'd mix in the tank then. Without rock there shouldn't be an issue.

[Marmot74]

Now the long wait for 220 gallons of RO/DI water to be created...argh....

[shaggss]

Hi Marmot


<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

If I may......

Equipment Purchased

180g Tank (72x24x24) - Dual Durso Overflows

As you have not filled it yet, do a search on Herbie overflows, still not too late and many have converted your type of tank. The herbie will make your tank silent and sump bubble free.

300W Heater

I would get two heaters that are under-rated your your tank. Reason being is if one fails on, then it will not cook your tank.

If it fails off, then the other will be on continuously and the temp drop will be gradual, and hopefully will pick up on it.

HTH

cheers :beer:

[Marmot74]

I have another heater if needed. Only reason I only put in one is because its controlled by the Apex and rarely comes on as the pumps and return pump keep the tank warm as is.

Thanks for the Herbie idea. I'll take a look at that. My system is pretty quiet already but dead silent is always nice!

[Marmot74]

I would love to do a silent Herbie system but unfortunately I have no clue where to start and how to adapt my dual durso overflow to a system like that. The Herbie thread is so long and confusing....

[shaggss]

G'Day Marmot

Check post number 1294 & 1295 of the Herbie (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344892&page=52) thread. Should help you out.

Here's a picture from the post to get you started........

http://i.pgu.me/pKOx_LnW_original.png

Oh and be sure to use gate valves & not ball valves, much easier to adjust.

HTH

cheers :beer:

[Marmot74]

Interesting. So basically the two 3/4 Bulks are used for Drain. Then one 1" bulk is used for Emergency Drain and 2nd is for return.

The 3/4 Drains are always under water. If they get clogged water rises in overflow and Emergency drain takes over.

Do I have this correct?

[shaggss]

Interesting. So basically the two 3/4 Bulks are used for Drain. Then one 1" bulk is used for Emergency Drain and 2nd is for return.

The 3/4 Drains are always under water. If they get clogged water rises in overflow and Emergency drain takes over.

Do I have this correct?

Yep all correct. It is also important to have a stable water level in the return section of your sump (ie an ATO). Otherwise the water level in your overflow will vary as well.

When I set my first tank up I was riddled with micro bubbles due to the overflow. After heaps of research I found the Herbie thread and set my new tank up with this. It is totally silent, creates NO bubbles and extremely easy to adjust.

HTH cheers :beer:

[wtildens]

do you have any pics of your sump? Is it set up with the return section in the center or on one end? I'm just trying to get a idea if it's better to have all the water run from one end to the other or, both ends to the middle.

[Marmot74]

My sump is setup with the return in the middle and a Fuge/Skimmer section on the ends.

[Marmot74]

I dug into the Herbie thread a bit more and it seems with my setup people are also using the 2 1" bulks as main drains and the 2 3/4 bulks as emergency drains. Then they return over the back. Sounds like a decent route to go.

[wtildens]

does it work better in the long run like that?

[Marmot74]

Seems more flexible if you have the returns over the back. Gives you more flexibility and options for the 4 drains if needed.

If the skimmer section is on one end does it matter if one drain line is shorter then the other?

[Marmot74]

OMG! Thank You Shaggss! I got the Herbie's up and running in my Overflows and its DEAD SILENT!

Just need to drain the Freshwater and add the RO/DI Water now!!

Thanks Again!

[Marmot74]

Tanking is filling! At 75GPD its going to take awhile :) It's about 25% full! yee ha!

[shaggss]

OMG! Thank You Shaggss! I got the Herbie's up and running in my Overflows and its DEAD SILENT!

No problems and glad to help. Mine has been set up over a month now, and I never have to touch it.

Just remember to keep the water in your return section of the sump level and you'll have no trouble. Good on Herbie! :bounce3:

Now get this tank stocked already!

[Marmot74]

I'm working in it! The RO/DI only goes so fast :)