Are Nitrate and Phosphate the same thing?

[lorenzj4]

Sorry if this is a stupid question. Im currently testing for Nitrates should I also be testing for Phosphates?

[Bigez]

Nitrates and Phosphates are two different chemicals. Both of which can help fuel algae growth. It's good to test for both regularly.

[gweston]

I test for nitrates more often than phosphates, but both should be tested for and kept as low as possible. Zero/undetectable if you can.

Chaeto, skimmer, and periodic water changes helps a great deal.

Think Nitrate/Phosphate = Fertilizer for bad Algae.

[Sk8r]

If you have any algae, you have phosphate, but it won't show on tests, which are generally meaningless, because tests only test what's in the water. Phosphate comes in with rock, sand, fish food, and tap water. In excess it can fuel algae blooms so thick it chokes the tank. The best way to keep it at low levels is to establish a fuge with cheatomorpha algae and toss the excess growth [or sell it]. Nitrate is part of the nitrate-nitrite-ammonia cycle, and is a serious thing: ammonia can cause a tank crash. Keeping a small bottle of Amquel is a good thing when you're new: it can remove ammonia. But testing for nitrate and keeping that level as close to 0 as possible will prevent ammonia from happening.

[theatrus]

I agree with Sk8r: Phosphate water tests are basically meaningless unless your tank has already transformed into a wall to wall green hair algae blob, to the point where you can't see the rocks or fish.

Water changes and correct feeding are the first line defense against phosphate and nitrate problems, followed by a refuge with a fast growing macro algae and a skimmer, followed by chemical removers (ferric oxide).

[jeff@zina.com]

Phosphate tests are actually extremely useful for testing your incoming water supply. Phosphates are not uncommon in the water supply, especially if you're on a well.

Jeff

[Jason S]

Nitrate is part of the nitrate-nitrite-ammonia cycle, and is a serious thing: ammonia can cause a tank crash. Keeping a small bottle of Amquel is a good thing when you're new: it can remove ammonia. But testing for nitrate and keeping that level as close to 0 as possible will prevent ammonia from happening.

You got that one backwards... Nitrate is the product of the nitrogen cycle and will not break down into Ammonia. It goes from Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate. Nitrate is not very serious at all for a FOWLR tank, but can be very serious in an SPS tank. LPS and softies can generally take higher levels, but in any case, I would keep it in check as it is a nutrient that feeds algae. I like to keep both nitrates and phosphates undetectable in my SPS tank, but in my LPS/ Softy tank, I am fine with them being up to 20 or so, but they have gone as high as 40 or so with no ill effects.

The only way to remove either Nitrates or Phosphates is to export them somehow. A chaeto fuge, carbon dosing or water changes are the best options in my opinion, but as a beginner, stick to the fuge and water changes. Carbon dosing can cause very negative results if not done correctly. Also, a good skimmer is very beneficial in removing organics before they can break down into Nitrates.

In any case, yes you should check for both.

[zhewitt04]

I had the phosphate promblem with the bloom from hell. I couldn't see the other side of 150 gal(72"). I got a reactor with ferric oxide. Algae growth is very little and the bloom went away very slowly. Today was actuall the best its looked in months. The tank finally looks right. The interesting thing was my nitrates were very low at the time of the bloom. This could have been do to the algae eating it though?

[Sk8r]

THanks on that correction, Jason: I'm notoriously dyslexic when it comes to -trites and -trates, and I'm always dead sure it's the other one.

What I'd urge is just use your nitrite tests faithfully for several months, and if you have ANY result, try to get it back to 0. As your tank ages and stabilizes, much less problem.

If you are fish-only, that's not going to be so easy. Just watch over-feeding.

Whatever you are, have a good cleanup crew with lots of good worms (including bristleworms) and maybe a nassarius snail or two (they clean the sandbed without disturbing it). And of course use ro/di water.

[julie180]

I'm going to have to disagree with the algae bloom is a good way to tell if you have phosphates... My experience.

I did not have any change in algae, basically I have never had it in 2 years in my 180 tank. My corals started looking bad and I found out my phosphates were way high. I dont remember the exact number but high enough to kill 80 out of 100 heads on my duncan coral. I also have a fuge full of cheato that DOES NOT grow. It just hangs there and does nothing.

Moral of this story, testing is the safest way to stay on top of things. I got complacent and it cost me.

[Sk8r]

Curious. I'd be interested to know your other params, julie180, not doubting for a moment the accuracy and aptness of your observation. Maybe your extreme phosphate buildup came in from food---I've always been suspicious of phyto in that department. Though rock, sand, or a ro/di filter failing can be a source as well.

One thing I have noted is that, for me, the dirtier the tank, the better euphyllia lps grows---so long as the water params are 'on' and calcium stays up. But I've had no experience with duncans, so I can't speak to that.