I am going to start vodka AND biopellets.

[dg3147]

I've been running biopellets for several months now and had great success driving PH04 and NO3 down to zero, but I don't get the same amazing colors as I did with vodka dosing.

I now plan to add back into the system a very small dose of vodka: 5ml per day.

Stop me if you think I am crazy.

(I am starting to think that vodka may have something a bit more unique to contribute than just driving NO3/PO4 lower. It may encourage particular strains of symbiotic bacteria the are bright in coloration and different from those feeding off my biopellets).

[HighlandReefer]

I don't think your crazy. :lol:

Vodka may very well increase the populations of the symbionts in coral tissues and mucous membranes. After all, it does increase the bacterial & perhaps algae populations in the water column.

[HighlandReefer]

There are symbiotic bacterial populations in the coral as well.

The question I have, is how well does the alcohol penetrate the outer cell membrane of coral. I would think it would readily pass through?

[bertoni]

I agree that starting with a low dose is fine. The vodka might affect coloration; that's hard to predict. I would watch carefully for signs of trouble.

[Moser]

What about Biopellets and Zeo or Brightwell additives?.
You already have a carbon source, so maybe that would be more useful?

Mo

[dg3147]

yeah, tried amino acids and ReefBooster without much luck. Not really sure what the underlying issue is.

[HighlandReefer]

Coral color is due to the symbionts in both the coral tissue and the mucal areas secreted by the coral. Many coral will capture food and left over nutrients can be shared with the symbionts. The same goes with the symbionts, they acquire food and can share it with the coral tissues. It is somewhat of a delicate balance which if the ratios are correct is beneficial to both. Lighting is the major factor that will effect the symbiotic dinoflagellates and the same species of coral can have different species of symbiotic dinoflagellates and bacteria. Different species of the symbionts behave differently under different lighting. The photosynthetic organelles in some will utilize different wavelengths. The same applies with the symbionts in their capabilities of utilizing CO2 during photosynthesis. The same applies with the symbionts capability to use phosphate, nitrate & other necessary nutrients. So trying to get the best for all the coral in your tank can be tricky.

Coral are very adapt at gathering food in extremely low nutrient natural reefs provided they are given the correct lighting. Our tanks with constant food being added for fish does not represent a true low nutrient system like found in nature despite the claim made by hobbyists that they have an ultra low nutrient system. So, IMHO, it is not likely that coral are deprived of food when fish foods are added. Instead it is more likely they have too many nutrients which has a big effect on both the coral and its symbionts. Extra food causes the symbionts to grow quickly (will change the colors of the coral) and if too much is added, the coral will expel these symbionts to maintain a proper nutrient balance. Symbiont expulsion is what causes reduced coloration and in extreme cases tissue necrosis.

All your major amino acids are developed within the coral and symbionts and are shared. IMHO, adding more amino acids are more likely not beneficial to the situation, except to artificially increase the symbionts numbers which can easily provide negative results such as expulsion of the symbionts. Similar to overfeeding the coral.

Another problem/benefit when increasing the amount of nutrients added, is that the symbiont populations in coral (both bacterial & algal) can change species on you when you alter their diet. Some species are more adapt at utilizing different food sources and if the food sources change so can the symbionts. This can result in color changes (different symbionts have different colors) which may be beneficial. In other cases the new symbionts produce waste products that are toxic to the coral tissues which can result in tissue necrosis.

The bottom line IMHO, is that working with different lighting may be your best tool for deriving better coral colors. Wavelength, intensity and photo period all play big factors in coral color. This includes increasing as well as decreasing the intensity. It is difficult to get the correct lightling for all the different coral, so playing with the height in the water collumn you place them can make a big difference. ;)

[dg3147]

I was sort of thinking the same thing with the lights being the issue; though, again, when I was dosing vodka only, I had great color.

I am only running 4-T5's and I am thinking about putting in a couple strips of high end led's (I beleive each strip is like adding a blue T5).

I will keep u posted on my vodka PLUS BP experement.

[Metal Man 1221]

wow great info Cliff, thanks!

[ChuckG]

The pellets can be very efficient at removing phosphate and nitrate.. My acros colored up and eventually began to fade while using pellets. I think the tank was too clean.

[Flems]

Looks like were also forgetting that the pellets are slowly used up over time and could throw the dosage out of whack. Although it wouldn't result in any overdosing, what would the effects be on stability.

[bertoni]

Interesting question. That depends on a number of factors, but the effective carbon dosing rate might go down, if the bacteria become carbon limited. I'd expect a slow uptick in the nutrient levels, if that's the case.

[Flems]

Any update on how its going? I just started vodka in combination with pellets 4 days ago.

Just curious :)

[dg3147]

My LPS seemed to react a bit negatively; though, my SPS are lov'n it. This is similar to my experience when I was doing vodak only. I am dosing a very low quantity of vodka --roughly 0.3 ML every other day.

I will clean my glass and grab a photo later today.

[Genetics]

It may be better to try an even lower dose of vodka. 0.3mL plus biopellets may be too much for the LPS to handle. Another option may be to add it ever other day or twice a week so you do not stress out your LPS.