My 55 gal Journey

[m_wonnacott]

So after three years of researching salt water set-ups, mostly here on RC, in June I took the plunge and switched our 55 gal cichlid tank to salt water. I went out and got
-my test kits (API both master kits)
-2 x Korilia 3
-refractometer (started with a hydrometer for two weeks since the store had no Refactometers in)
-D-D H20 salt bucket
-30 lbs of caribsea sand (forget which now but its really fine)
-a 4lb piece of live rock to seed my existing reef rock we had in the cichlid tank after rinsing it really well.

The current set-up consisted of a 55 gal tank with metal stand, penguin 350 bio-wheel filter, heater, and standard fresh water hoods. For the salt conversion I made screen lids to go around the filter and wires since I knew I wanted known jumpers as part of my stocking. I also removed the filter cartridges and bio-wheels and added a couple of bags of carbon to the filter. Currently the lighting still consists of the light fixtures from the fresh water set-up.

All but the live rock were bought one day I then went home and sold all my cichlids that night. I then took all the rock out rinsed them really well. Then put them back in the tank, added my sand and power heads.

The next day I went out and got my RO water and live rock. I then mixed up my salt water with the hydrometer (didn't have refratometer yet). I mixed the salt water in the tank since there was nothing in it.

Then I waited and tested and waited and tested. I never did get a very big spike but the tank did cycle. This took about two weeks or so. At this time I added my clean up crew of about 5 nararious snails, 5 astea snails, and ten hermits (as you can guess I now have ten hermits and no snails)

After another week I added my first fish a trio of Blue green Cromis. Just after this we found out we might be moving but knew it wasn't going to be for a month and a half at least and decided to go ahead with the next purchase a week later, a Royal Gramma. So a month and a half later we moved to our new bigger place. This was the fun part of the build.

When we were planing the move we had considered a couple places and decided where we were going to put it so moving day came and having moved tanks before i knew what i was doing for the most part we had made up the salt water the night before at the new place to replace what we were not able to save and move. The take down went great, as did the transportation of the tank, rocks, and fish. The problem arose when i was about 3/4 of the way done filling the tank, a small bump to the tank would cause major sloshing. With two kids under 4 this was not safe at all. So here it was 10pm at night after a long day of moving and i found we had to take down the tank for the night since i wasn't even comfortable with it for the night. So we took all the rock out put it back into containers with the water , and put the fish back into the container we used for them with one of the powerheads and a lid on to keep them from jumping and the cat out.

To be Continued.... for now here are a few pics to keep you interested

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1503.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1511.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1509.jpg

[meco65]

Looking good so far.

[m_wonnacott]

Continued

So the next day we started to re-think where we were going to put the tank. Now the place we live in is one of the permanant trailers that has had a couple of additions added to it. The first place we tried was in the main addition which is our large family room, so we decided it was prob going to be best to try again in the original trailer of the house. So thats what we did we put it into the dinning room/ living room infront of a pass-through to the kitchen i plan to close up to allow for more cupboard space later on.

So we moved the tank up to the main lvl and got it all set-up with relief it was stable. If this spot had not worked out then we would have been forced to sell the tank.

I should also mention that in order to lvl the tank we built a box big enough to suport the base of the tank. We made it out of 2x4s with plywood on top. This was needed because the floors are quite unlevel and it would have been to hard to level four 1" square posts and have it remain stable.
So now that we finally had it set-up again. I monitored it for a month to be sure that it didn't cycle again. During this time all i did was test and do my bi weekly water changes since the tank did not spike at all.

After a month of just letting the tank settle in, (we were doing work to the place at this time) we went out and bought our next fish a Coral Beauty Angelfish. At this time I also added in 2 peppermint shrimp since i had noticed a single aptasia anemone on the smaller peice of live rock. The pepermints worked great and had the aptasia gone the first night they were added.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1627.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1626.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1626.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1624.jpg

After about 2 weeks we lost one of the pepermints, I am guessing it was trying to molt and someone in the tank started picking on it.

After about another month, which brings us up to Friday the 24th of September I added our next additions. At this time I added a pink firefish and a bloodred shrimp. Both are doing great the firefish didn't even go into hiding for more then 30 mins after intro to the tank. The other great thing is the angel didn't cause any issues at all with either of the new additions.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1583.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1620.jpg

All this brings us then to yesturday when i decided to re do the rockwork. I had a bunch of the reef rock left over from after the move since we decided at that time not to add it all. So I did my bi-weekly water change scrubed the tank and redid the rock work last night. I also decided to take a few more pictures to follow are all the rest of the pics i have of the tank to date.

[unclejed2]

Not to be a downer but I think you are moving way to fast. The tank will need time to season and fully cultivate the biolobical colonies and filtration. Here is a condensed essay I wrote on cycling, perhaps you can glean something from it;

Tank cycling:There are some who would tell you that once "the numbers" are all good the cycle is over and you are ready to go, I am not one of those. What many beginner (even some advanced) aquarium keepers are not (fully) aware of is that the full cycle takes at least 6-8 months. The reason being, mainly, is this is the time required to fully cultivate a total beneficial bacterial base and achieve a saturation of such. Also, allowing the tank to "season" and go through the inevitable mini-cycles and diatom blooms and get fully established is the key to a healthy and stable tank in the future. You could have one fish after about the 6 week mark, let the tank get established by light feeding and going through a moderate light cycle (6-8 hours) for the next 3 weeks.At the 2 month mark, A 25% water change of the "total"water volume is in order. After that, add a few clean up critters (crabs and/or snails) and allow the tank to "catch up" to the added load (you may at this time add some live bacteria to help in this process) and give it another 2 weeks doing all your tests on a regular (weekly) basis and determine if the tank is stable. Water changes of 30% should be carried out once a month to once every 5-6 weeks. Coral should not be introduced (even soft) until the tank is around 3-4 months old. Too many beginners don't exercise the proper patience and discipline at this early stage of getting their tank going only to have problems and head aches down the road. Once the tank has gone through this full cycle period and the tank is stable, then and only then, should you add more difficult coral like hard coral. I always employed a bit of advice I got when I was starting out to add bacteria after each water change for the first and subsequent next 4-5 changes. After the 4th water change then and only then add to the tank and minimally at that.
Another good tactic I learned is to add (whatever you are adding) a couple days after a water change. This gives the new creature fresh minerals and trace elements and a good 3-4 weeks (I adhere to 4-5 week intervals between changes) to adjust to the new water parameters, light, temp etc. before disrupting the tank for the next water change.
I hope this helps.

[m_wonnacott]

Thanks but i have done my research i know about cycling and i test regularly. This also is not my first tank I have been keeping fresh water for 6 years with no problems. I am not some newby who just decided one day to start a salt water tank like i said I researched this for 3 years before making my move. Also the methods you talk about in your post are the first i have ever heard of them and are not common practice. People have been doing it the way i did for years and years with sucess. Thank you for the advice but i think i will stick to my methods methods many use without problems.

[ScubaPrawn]

Looking good. I like your aquascape. Looks clean and natural. What's the rock you used in your freshwater tank? I know it's not seeded yet but it doesn't look like most reef rock I've seen.

[m_wonnacott]

Its by carib sea i believe its there reef rock. Was bought dry at the pet store, its very dense so i do plan to slowly replace some of it. I may actually be picking up some rock next month if things go as planed. Now for some pictures

[m_wonnacott]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1603.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1602.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1600.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1647.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1646.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1645.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1644.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1643.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1632.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1627.jpg

[m_wonnacott]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1624.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1620.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1619.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1618.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1595.jpg

this is the old scape
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1591.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1586.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1585.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1584.jpg

the best picture i could get of the cromis
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1511.jpg

[unclejed2]

Thanks but i have done my research i know about cycling and i test regularly. This also is not my first tank I have been keeping fresh water for 6 years with no problems. I am not some newby who just decided one day to start a salt water tank like i said I researched this for 3 years before making my move. Also the methods you talk about in your post are the first i have ever heard of them and are not common practice. People have been doing it the way i did for years and years with sucess. Thank you for the advice but i think i will stick to my methods methods many use without problems.

O.k. You seem a bit defensive however without knowing you or seeing your affect I may be mis-taken.

"If, on any given subject, we have already concluded that what we think and/or believe is written in stone,learning is therefore shut out as the mind is made up."
--Leon Guzdzial

[m_wonnacott]

Yes i am a bit defensive not sure how long you have been in this hobby but your post count is only 14 mine if you look is in the 500 range. Stating that i am rushing things just because the methods you practice are totally out of the norm is not a good idea in my opinion. Also the methods you sugest would have most newbies running away the moment they read it if they thought that was the only way to has sucess. I see tons of people on here that rush things far more then i have maybe you should try stopping them first.

[scbrooks87]

Nice looking tank, I agree that it will be even better once the dense rock is replaced out with some more porous rocks...

Not taking anyones side here, nor trying to cause any additional problems, but you'll have people who will try and provide some additional information, or sometimes criticism... Take it at face value and dont take is personal, if the advice isnt what you wanna use, cool, roll with your own plans and if you've done your research, (3 years as stated) i'm sure it will come out just fine!

What it all boils down to, I don't think it matters what someone's post count is on RC, to determine their knowledge of the hobby. They may have 15,000 posts on another forum, and decided to come to RC 2 days ago. If the quality of the info is good or bad, thats a great way to decide if you wanna use the info or not.

Anyways, happy reefing! No need to get defensive :beer:
-Scott

[unclejed2]

Yes i am a bit defensive not sure how long you have been in this hobby but your post count is only 14 mine if you look is in the 500 range. Stating that i am rushing things just because the methods you practice are totally out of the norm is not a good idea in my opinion. Also the methods you suggest would have most newbies running away the moment they read it if they thought that was the only way to has success. I see tons of people on here that rush things far more then i have maybe you should try stopping them first.

Whoa, I just joined this forum. I am a Mod in another forum and a member of still another with well over a thousand posts. I didn't know there was a competition. If you would have taken the time to go into my profile you have seen I have been at this for well over 20 years. I am also a bowling coach. As a coach I try to help others to the best they can by introducing new ideas and concepts to them. If you have never read or heard of some concepts or ideas, like the ones I mentioned, then that is what it is. O.k. I'll leave it alone, like my quote said, you seem to have a closed mind. No offense intended and none taken, I'll refrain from offering you my experience and help in the future.

[Myvirtue]

yes happy reefing and gl on the fast paced tank

[m_wonnacott]

unclejed2 - I apoligize for being a bit rude. I am not saying that i don't trust or believe that what your stating about your method perhaps being better but, you will likly find very few people willing to wait 8 months before really getting much into the tank, when the methods I employed and many other have as well work fine. I have worked in the fish pet industry and i know to well how patient most people are when it comes to a tank. I took a bit of offense to your post because i see tons of people moving way faster with there tanks then I have and yet you chose to post on mine. Again I apoligize for that.

[m_wonnacott]

I forgot to post the params from last night after the water change

Natrate ~ 7 ppm
Nitrite 0
Amonia 0
Ph 7.8
Salinity 1.024
Calcium 500
Phos .5
KH 11 dKH

[unclejed2]

unclejed2 - I apologize for being a bit rude. I am not saying that i don't trust or believe that what your stating about your method perhaps being better but, you will likely find very few people willing to wait 8 months before really getting much into the tank, when the methods I employed and many other have as well work fine. I have worked in the fish pet industry and i know to well how patient most people are when it comes to a tank. I took a bit of offense to your post because i see tons of people moving way faster with there tanks then I have and yet you chose to post on mine. Again I apologize for that.

We're cool! Forums are a place of ideas, discussion of concepts and opinions. I was just offering some of the mentioned. Like I stated, I just joined this forum so I couldn't have responded to the others you mentioned. I pray the best for you. May all your reef keeping adventurers go smoothly. By the way, if that is you and your baby in the avatar, your baby is adorable!

[m_wonnacott]

Thanks yes that is My oldest baby though the picture is almost two years old, I haven't gotten around to resizing another.

[gldnegle76]

Coral Beauty looks good. What are you feeding it? The only one I've been able to keep for a long time has plenty of live rock to graze on. Back in the day before live rock became popular, I couldn't keep one alive no matter how many types of food were used. Pics look great, keep up the good work.

[m_wonnacott]

Well I got the coral beauty as a 3-4 inch fish from a local store in that condition and he ates everything i feel Form 1& 2 flakes, brine, flakes, and frozen mysis

[m_wonnacott]

he is definatly the best looking coral Beauty I have ever seen

[m_wonnacott]

Well once again I re-arranged the tank. Finally think I got it the way I want it. Just got back from being away for two weeks while the hubby looked after the tank. Did a 5 gal water change the day before I left and all he had to do was feed the fish and turn on the lights and top off with fresh water every other day.

On another note I am in the very early planing stages of the upgrade i will be doing in a year or so. I am planing on a peninsila style DD90 gal so 48"lx24"dx18"h. I know i will use a 1262 ehiem for return pump, 20 long for sump. Still trying to deside what type of overflow i am going to go with i am leaning towards an external coast to coast of the two foot end of the tank. The big things i still need to decide on are flow and a skimmer.

For fish for the upgrade I am looking to add a Majestic angel and or a powder brown tang as well as a trio of anthias (ignitus are my fav).

On another note I am getting my pair of clown fish in two weeks, i may add one more small addition to the 55 after them but can't decide what to get that will work with the current stock particularly the firefish (lovehim) and my shrimp since the blood red is the most expensive in the tank atm.

Now onto some pictures

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1786.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1785.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1769.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1781.jpg

[m_wonnacott]

any thoughts on the last update

[gregmoeck]

I have an eshopps overflow and its never failed me. Got it at premiumaquatics.com and I recommend the added silencer to keep the noise down. You might want to add a protein skimmer, more live rock, live sand, just keep your hands out of it for a few weeks. Let it cycle. Watch the amount of food you put in there as well. I started out with a wet dry with bio balls. After a year I removed the bio balls and turned the wet dry into a refugium with deep sand and macro alqae that I bought from the for sale section here.

This is my 38 gallon just last week. http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmoeck#p/u/0/P4uVnhBRN0A

[m_wonnacott]

um the tank is cycled there is as much sand as i am going to add (may try to get some more live sand that has a bit more life). I am not bothering with an overflow for the 55 or sump or skimmer since within the year we are planning to upgrade to a DD90 gal that will have sump, skimmer and more live rock. I also prefer a bit more minimal look so won't be adding more rock if anything i will get a few peices of better rock cycle them then swap out a few pieces of the base rock.

Ah ya your trying to tell me what to do with my tank yet you have 2 blue tangs in a 38 gal. I did my research for 3 years and fully planed my stock ahead of time researching each fish i wanted. Maybe get your tank strait before trying to give advise to others

[gregmoeck]

ok, well sounds like you have it under control, good luck.

[Fishfish0001]

Looks good :D What are your coral plans? What does your fire shrimp eat also? I have one, he's looking a little thin, been feeding him pellets and some brine shrimp, he also loves the coral food. Might just been due to an agressive fish in the tank which means he has to hide a lot.

[scubasteve06]

I think everyone here is trying to help you better your tank, yet you post ask for comments and suggestions and then completely tear them apart when they don't fit what you had in mind. I hope your current build and new build the best of luck. Everything looks fine as far as water quality and parameters, but your method of responding leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

[m_wonnacott]

My plan for coral are what ever my fish will let me keep since when i upgrade i am planing to get a magestic angel and i already have a coral beauty angel, so will be notxious soft corals and maybe some zoas will try some cheaper nice frags to see what they won't eat. As for feeding the shrimp twice a week i feed a home more fish food that has nori, shrimp, scallops, muscle, and mysis in it.

[m_wonnacott]

Considering the last guy a) didn't seem to even read that the tank has been up for a few months and i have waited a month between each addition yet he is telling me to let the tank cycle and b)he obviously did not research his tank before setting it up or at least not near enough if he has 2 blue tangs in a 38.

the other response was to someone who was sujestion sopmething totally out of the norm though i was following procedures used by many with little to no problems.

People are acting like i went out and just decided one day to start this tank and that I am rushing things with my fish additions. Yet from everything i have read on here I see tons of people moving way faster without the hastles i seem to be getting. I researched for years before taking my first step, yes i don't have a skimmer or good lights yet but I also haven't gone out and started trying to add things that really need them either. I do plan to get a skimmer and better lights and even a sump but i see no point in buying things twice when i will be upgrading within a year and would loose that money when i then have to upgrade.

Yes some of my posts have been a little less then friendly. But please don't think i don't value peoples advice, but plz stop treating it like I just jumped into this without research first.

After my clowns are added this will be the last addition till the upgrade and no corals will be added till the upgrade it will be left to settle in for about a year with the fish and rocks with regular 5 gal water changes and regular testing of nitrate.

[CWP]

I know you don't want to hear this, but the advice you have been given by earlier posts is beneficial. Perhaps you are confused by the wording, but there are two cycles. The first cycle refers to the first few weeks when your tank will have ammonia and nitrites. The second cycle, which is usually called "new tank syndrome", is the time when a tank will have cyano, diatoms, and hair-algae. Although fish can survive this period, there are few corals that can be maintained successfully. Xenia, and perhaps GSP, can often be maintained becuase they seem to thrive in high nutrient conditions, but I do not know of anything else. And while you maintain that many people are successful following the method you are using, I think you will find that these individuals have had multiple losses. In fact, I imagine that these people will tell you that they feel they rushed things. I have found that most of the people that rush things on RC generally stop posting once their tanks crash. There is a reason that the most well known saying in reef aquaria is that "only bad things happen quickly". However, it seems that you are not open to the advice of more experienced aquarist. I would not look at post count to determine knowledge, since you have over 500 posts and have only owned a salt-water aquarium for a few months. Good luck, and I look forward to following your experience in the years to follow.

[m_wonnacott]

What you say about the algae blooms I do understand and still do expect to get though to date i have no real nuisence algae, I know it will come at some point. The issues you say this will pose is not something I am conserned about since I am not planing to add corals till I make the upgrade in about a years time.

The last fish addition for this tank is a pair of false perc clowns that I plan to add in about 2 weeks after that I will be letting the tank fully settle in for about a year durring which time I will be gathering equipment for the upgrade. After the upgrade I will give the tank a couple months to restablize then start with a few coral additions.

[gregmoeck]

those shrimps will starve in a new aquarium, and there is not enough bacteria to maintain all those fish if you are feedling them. The reef rock out of a fresh water tank is risky because it can leak out nutrients which will fuel hair algae. Go out and get an Aqua clear 500 HOB and fill it will 2 bags of the ceramic rings. Go buy 2 - 20lb bags of live sand and order some live rock rubble and mud from premiumaquatics.com

You're gonna need a protein skimmer unless you want to start doing massive water changes and then you will need your own RO unit. If you want to do it right on a budget get an eshopps wet dry from premium aquatics and an eshopps HOB protein skimmer. If you want to go reef later then take out the bio balls and make the sump a refugium. People often make the mistake of starting with fish instead of building the base first. If you want to keep tangs you will need a good base. I will make you another video tonight.

[scubasteve06]

I don't think anyone is questioning your experience, knowledge, or length in this hobby. As I said everything looks really good in your tank, and your water quality looks very good. Actually better than many I have seen without a skimmer, so take what I am saying as a compliment:) I don't doubt you don't know what your doing, as you seem to be on top of your water changes and tank maintenance. I was just commenting on how you replied to some of the people that were offering their words of wisdom. Nothing more nothing less. Please don't take anything I have said as putting you down or being mean to you as I think sometimes I do come off that way in my posts. My friends and parents have told me I can be rather blunt sometimes and it gets me in trouble in some cases. So have fun with this hobby, when someone tells you something that you don't like just throw up a smiley and brush it off. It's what I always do, even if after I found out that they were right. Sorry for any type of condescending posting if I came off that way and I only wish you the best of luck in your foray into the saltwater side of the aquarium hobby:D

[m_wonnacott]

Thank you and it sounds like you and i can have the same problem i do tend to be a bit on the blunt side particularly about things i am pationate about.

[scubasteve06]

Thank you and it sounds like you and i can have the same problem i do tend to be a bit on the blunt side particularly about things i am pationate about.

It's alright, I think most of us are the same way about the things we love. I think you have done good with your stocking so far as far as the selections you made. I and others would say that you may have gone a little fast in stocking the tank especially with dense rock that will take more time to colonize than more porous rock such as pukani, tonga, or figi rock. Have you looked at BRS and their Reef Saver rock? They have free shipping on anything more than 50lbs. I think 50lbs would do your tank nicely and give it a really nice reef touch, and be much more beneficial for BB to grow and for nutrient export. Also check out Marco Rocks as they also have really good prices too, but I'm not sure on their shipping cost. BRS is the way to go for almost everything in this hobby that you need. I'd try to get another HOB like the aquaclear mentioned earlier they are really good for making HOB refugiums out of and a fuge would be a good way to export nutrients in your tank since you have nearly reached your stocking limits. I think the pair of clowns will finish off your stocking plans nicely, but maybe waiting at least another month or two would be the best idea. You may also be able to eek by a sand sifter like a YWG/pistol shrimp pair if you can live without the pair of clowns and only get one. I think a Goby/pistol shrimp pair would provide much more entertainment and coolness factor than a pair of clowns. If your heart is set on the clowns then get them by all means, but try and wait as I said and enjoy what you have now.:wave:

[m_wonnacott]

i am in canada so there sales for shipping do not apply to me, but I am planing to take a trip to see nineball's tank hopefully this month and I am hopeing to get some of his left over rock from his set-up.

The risk with waiting for the clowns is also that the angel is already in and i don't want to risk to much that he will get more astablished and bully them. Though he was a model sitizen when i added the firefish and shrimp over a month ago. I may try to find a used aqua clear to use as a refuge but don't much like the idea of a clip on light showing since this is in our dinning/ formal living room area

[m_wonnacott]

So I am excited to post that next Saturday I will be picking up some nice dead liverock from nineball. This rock will be cycled seperate from the main tank for a couple weeks and then slowly replace what is in the tank for rock. No more dense liverock. Any Canadians needing a bit of base rock I am willing to pass it on free since Nineball is being nice enough to give me the liverock.

[scubasteve06]

Did you think about the goby/pistol shrimp idea? I really like them a lot, I don't know if you do, but I think they are really neat and the symbiosis that goes on between them is awesome.

[m_wonnacott]

I have heard that they are neat to watch but I have very fine sand (too fine) that i have a hard time not blowing around with the powerheads as it is so don't think they would be a good idea

[m_wonnacott]

Ok so as I mentioned I am picking up about 50 or so lbs of dead live rock (been sitting outside in saltwater with no circulation for a few month) we are going down to Oakville Saturday to Nineballs house to get the big tank tour (for those who aren't aware of it you have to go check out the thread on his 1350gal). While there we are picking up the rock from him.

What I need help with from all you people is how best to go about adding it to the tank I plan to cycle the rock with some raw shrimp for a couple weeks (or however long it takes) to make sure they have a good cycle to build up the bacteria. Besides that I am not sure how to procede since I have the fish in the tank and will be removing prob all but 5lbs of rock (the live seed rock).

[m_wonnacott]

Anyone able to help with the last post

[m_wonnacott]

Well I went to Peters place on Saturday and picked up the rock and 4 buckets of Deep Ocean salt. The rock is great and we got some of the eloxy that he used in his tank as well.

We now have half of the rock cycling in a rubbermaid container. I added a chunk of home made fish food to it on Saturday and then when I tested on Monday we had amonia. nitrite and nitrate present. Hopeing for a really good cycle from the rock since its replacing 95 percent of my rock when it all goes in I added another big chunk of the food. I tested again today and the Amonia is at 2 and nitrate is about the same. I didn't bother testing nitrate again.

I also did a full test on the main tank tonight since I was going to do a water change but I am waiting on an answer to my post about a difference in Ph between the fresh salt water and tank.

Test results on DT as follows

Nitrate 20 (reason for water change)
Ph 7.8
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Phos .5
Calcium 520
KH 9

Fresh salt is 8-8.2 Ph

[Original Fin]

Ok, I say this flinchingly, but here goes...

Question. You say are cycling the dead live rock in a rubbermade container. Can you tell us about what kind of water you've got in there, any powerheads, heaters, etc? I'm sure you've got it covered, figuratively not literally:lmao:

I would think the safest way of transfering once they have cycled would be to err on the side of caution and do it one or two rocks at a time, over a period of several weeks. From what I understand, the BB on your new rock will be proportional to the amount of ammonia you've been feeding it, whether that be from real fish poop, or rotting food. So let's say hypothetically you were to swap everything out at the same time...there's no way of telling that rock group A has a similar quantity of beneficial nitrifying bacteria as rock group B. In other words,it might not be an even swap bacteriologically speaking. Too little, and your ammonia will spike before it can catch up. Too much, and bacteria will starve and die off, which will also cause a mini cycle, and probably a sizable algae bloom. I've never cycled a batch of rocks by themselves before, so I don't have practical experience to offer, but like you, I've done more reading on the subject than doing.

Any recent pics? How are the fish doing? I was surprised to be honest at how clean your sand bed looked. For FO, that's a nice look. When you do your reef upgrade, if you're like me, you'll be counting the months till it gets nice and grungy looking. And that'll be the sign that you can start puting the really cool stuff in.:dance:

[scubasteve06]

Good post original fin. Sounds like you have done your homework also;)

It also seems like your phosphates are high. Are you running any GFO or phosphate remover?

[m_wonnacott]

Sry yes i left all that out the rock is in fresh salt water with a heater and a powerhead.

I am planing to switch out about a third of the rock at a time since we are creating the rock struckture outside the tank with epoxy.

Ya I have been really lucky this far for algae blooms of any sort so I am kinda expecting it when i do the switch over. Original fin everything you said is why I am doing half at a time and trying to get a good BB build-up on the rock thats why I added the second amount of frozen fish food.

No I am not running any GFO or Phosphate remover yet. Still trying to figure out the most cost effective solution for now. Any ideas keeping in mind the tank does not have a sump. I do agree i would like to get that phosphate lowered.

[m_wonnacott]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1785.jpg

also the fish are doing good other then hiding a bit more since i went away but I have seen no agretion what so ever. The man fish that are hiding alot are the cromis who hid behind the rocks that the angel spends most of his time around. Hopeing a few more waterchanges to bring the nitrate and hopefully phosphate down.

[Original Fin]

Bearing in mind that you have no sump to work with, you might also look into dosing vodka/vinegar to bring down N&P. I've been dosing for the last month and seem some improvements. My N is zero, but P has been stubborn. Still hanging on at .05 ppm.

If you were running high quality reef lighting, you'd probably have seen that algae bloom by now, especially with P a little high, so less is more in the case of your FOWLR.

[m_wonnacott]

hmm not sure i dare try vodka yet will have to do some research on it for a bit first since i know nothing about it. Ya you might be right there with the lighting

[jloschen]

nice tank keep up the good work

[m_wonnacott]

Ok well all that may be following along with this thread. I now have all of the new rock I forget what type of rock it is could find out in peters thread but there are alot of pages to look through to find out. I cycled the first batch and transfered it too the tank while removing about 45 5 of the rock in the tank. I then got the second batch of rock cycling and transfered that on the weekend. I definatly have alot more serface area for the BB to colinize on with this new rock. I am going to do a water change and batch of tests this evening and will also get some new pictures for everyone to see the new aquascape.

[m_wonnacott]

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here is a short video i did with my new video camera (just a small hand held one) Excuse my voice I am getting over a cold

[m_wonnacott]

Well for anyone who is still following along with this here are some pictures I took last night. Really loving the look of the new rock from Peter. Pictures make the rocks look darker then they are,

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1912.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1904.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/m_wonnacott/DSCF1907.jpg

[m_wonnacott]

Well last night was a sad one our coral beauty Angel fish died. As of yet can't figure out a cause. Checked Amon, nitrite and nitrate all were fine with nitrate at less then about 5. It was eating in the am when I fed but we had a bunch of company over and niticed he wasn't out as much next time I looked over for him I noticed him swiming funny wasn't long after that, he prity much stopped moving. No other noticible since of what may have been the cause.

[EdSnyder]

That's a bummer, sorry:(

[m_wonnacott]

Well still not sure what is up with the tank but we lost our blood red srimp today. He molted earlier in the week but his antenie (spelling/correct word) didn't look quiet right very thin looking and not as bright white. Well today someone ate them off and half of one of his legs not long after maybe a couple hours I just fouind him dead.

Now the Angel fish had no signs of any thing picking on him at all when I found him only thing I noticed was posibly some burnt gills but could be wrong on that. I am doing some construction with mud and sanding in the next room and though I have screen covers on the tank didn't think to cover the tank otherwise. I am concerned that this may be the cause of the issues with the tank.

I will be doing a full battery of test tonight after I finish painting the ceiling in the other room will cover the tank to be safe this time

[m_wonnacott]

ok sry didn't get results up last night was late and time for bed.

sg 1.24
amon 0
nitrate ~15
Nitrite 0
PH ~7.7
KH 10
Calcium 440
Phos less than .5

In further regard to both deaths that has me confused is the fact that the shrimp had some damages prior to its death where as the Angel had no issues as far as being picked on before or after becoming weak.

Even the Drywall dust doesn't make much sense since I had not been doing much sanding at all the day before or day of yet the days I was doing alot of it didn't cause any issues.

[joejoe1055]

when i doubt i would do a water change
sometimes strange stuff just happens though

[scottsdale454ss]

Hows it going? no more deaths?

[m_wonnacott]

No more deaths.

[m_wonnacott]

Ok all so back for un update. Things have been going prity good with the tank no more fish loses. Never did figure out what happened other then possibly a PH spike due to extra CO2 in the house from company is the only thing I wasn't able to test at the time.

So i did another full round of test today (prior to some cleaning)

Salinity is at 1.025
Nitrate 15-20 between the colors
Nitrite 0
Amonia 0
PH 8.1
dKH 10
Calcium is at 440
Phos 0.25-5 again between colours

We are in the planing stage for a 60 gal marineland cube with sump, skimmer, RKL3, Phos and carbon reactors, and hopefully a 6bulb 24 " ATI fixture. We decided a cube tank would better fit our space since we are limited on locations to put the tank do to support issues in the addition of our modular home. This new set-up will finally allow the addition of corals to the tank since currently we do not have suficient lighting on the 55.

In preperation for the addition of corals I am looking for some advise on my tanks peramiters what needs adjusting what is in good range? Also how often should i check things like calcium, kh, ph?

[m_wonnacott]

any comments or help on those last two questions?

[scottsdale454ss]

well im a newb, but nitrates should be 0. Everything else looks good. I dont have a phos test kit so i have no idea about that lol

If you plan on having alot of stony coral, you'll probably want to check calcium more often, ive heard they can use it up pretty quick.

Ive never had a phos or calcium reactor so i dont know. In fact i doubt it would be necessary, at least at first untill stuff gets bigger.

I only test once a month(if that). But i dont have a heavy livestock load.


The new setup sounds sweet, you get it yet?