View Full Version : How to cover holes for closed loop on a 3/4" acrylic tank?
Hi there, Im about to buy a large reef tank that has six 1-7/8" return holes and three 3-1/4" holes for drain for a closed loop on the bottom of a 3/4" acrylic reef tank.
What would be a wise idea if I decide not to run the closed loop, get bulkheads and ball valves and just leave them closed for around $400 of plumbing which is not a wise idea.
Could I just cover the closed loop holes with some type of acrylic and glue it making it a lot cheaper.
What should I do? I just don't really like running a closed loop when I can get similar results with a couple of vortechs or koralias which I already have.
Sharpie_
09/28/2010, 02:33 PM
Those are big holes. I feel that installing threaded bulkheads with threaded plugs is the best route to go. Spending the money on plumbing right now may not feel so good in the wallet but the cost does however ensure the resale value on such a tank and if you do want to go for the clean look later on down the line it leaves you the option to install a closed loop.
If you really feel like you won't be using a closed loop, sinply getting a puck of acrylic of at least 3/4 thickness and cold welding it OVER the hole (on the inside of the tank) will plug it.
Acrylics
09/28/2010, 02:46 PM
While most will probably disagree with me, lol, I just use silicone and another piece of acrylic. Always have, always will, never an issue - remember this is *not* structural. Just be sure to silicone the piece on from the inside. IME 1/2" material will do nicely and 1/2" of overlap is fine but more is okay if you wish.
Silicones of choice are Dow Corning 795 or GE 1200 series. 795 takes longer to cure since it's a neutral cure but no silicone sticks better to acrylic. It's what we use in public aquariums so a proven track record.
HTH,
James
OK the tank comes with some bulkheads, not sure exactly which ones since the guy that is gonna sell me the reef tank doesnt know which plumbing he has right now because he put it all in storage 2 years ago.
1. Should I get new gasket for all the bulkheads?
2. And If the bulkheads are threaded should I add a threaded ball valve after the bulkhead then a threaded plug to the ball valve?
julie180
09/29/2010, 08:20 AM
Unless you are planning on using them as drains or something, thread plugs in the bulkheads would be best. Less fittings = less places for leakage.
If the gaskets look in good shape, you could use 100% silicone grease or silicone caulk for added seal.
der_wille_zur_macht
09/29/2010, 08:27 AM
The problem with using JUST a bulkhead and a plug is that you can't decide to put that hole into service without draining the tank. Putting a ball valve on the opening allows you to attach plumbing and use the hole at any point down the line, without draining the tank. If the bulkheads have been in storage for some time, I'd absolutely get new gaskets. Cheap insurance.
Unless you are planning on using them as drains or something, thread plugs in the bulkheads would be best. Less fittings = less places for leakage.
If the gaskets look in good shape, you could use 100% silicone grease or silicone caulk for added seal.
where would I put the silicon grease or silicon caulk? in the gasket or around the bulkhead to seal the bulkhead with the acrylic tank, this way I would have 2 leak insurance the gasket and the silicon covering the gasket in between the bulkhead an acrylic tank?
how about using plumbers putty around the bulkheads?
The problem with using JUST a bulkhead and a plug is that you can't decide to put that hole into service without draining the tank. Putting a ball valve on the opening allows you to attach plumbing and use the hole at any point down the line, without draining the tank. If the bulkheads have been in storage for some time, I'd absolutely get new gaskets. Cheap insurance.
Thats what I was thinking, I need a ball valve after the bulkhead then a threaded plug after the ball valve, if I ever want to use the close loop system I would simply just remove the plug and open the ball valve when the close loop plumbing is done.
der_wille_zur_macht
09/29/2010, 09:20 AM
I suppose you technically don't need the plug after the valve - you could just leave the valve shut. Though it would be a nice cushion to have, in case an inquisitive person ever said "hey, I wonder what this valve does?" and gave it a turn. :D
Yes new gaskets are a must have since they have been without use for maybe 2 years now. They must be dried and cracked up.
Should I get exactly the same gaskets or are the universal gaskets? I´ve tried looking for replacement gaskets @ several online aquarium stores with no luck, of course home depot and lowes carry them but they are universal ones could I just get away with them or should I try getting from the same company that fabricated the bulkheads?
I suppose you technically don't need the plug after the valve - you could just leave the valve shut. Though it would be a nice cushion to have, in case an inquisitive person ever said "hey, I wonder what this valve does?" and gave it a turn. :D
Yes that would be the only reason and besides they are very cheap just in case the ball valve decides to leak also...
Acrylics
09/29/2010, 10:10 AM
Yes new gaskets are a must have since they have been without use for maybe 2 years now. They must be dried and cracked up.
Should I get exactly the same gaskets or are the universal gaskets? I´ve tried looking for replacement gaskets @ several online aquarium stores with no luck, of course home depot and lowes carry them but they are universal ones could I just get away with them or should I try getting from the same company that fabricated the bulkheads?If you're going to use the bulkheads, I'd get the originals. The holes are more than likely for Hayward Bulkheads - just by the size of the holes. 1 7/8" holes are for Hayward 1" and the 3 1/4" holes are for Hayward 2" bulkheads. I'd contact Harrington Plastics for replacements as they usually keep them in stock - at least mine does. www.harringtonplastics.com or look in your local phone book if you're in a metro area. New gaskets should run $2-3 each
HTH,
James
Well I got all the sch80 PVC bulkheads and the gaskets look in great condition, they are from Savko Plastic Pipe and Fitttings.
The Gaskets where used WET from 2006 to 2008 and stored DRY (not installed) from 2008 to 2010.
Should I get new Gaskets?
khaosinc
10/07/2010, 11:52 PM
I would.. my luck w/ bulkhead seals has not been very high. Personally I permanetly closed the closed loops on my 250 and 300 gallon tanks with acrylic.
Sharpie_
10/08/2010, 12:36 AM
If they look and feel like they are in excellent condition, chances are in your favor that they are. However, a leaking bulkhead is not something that can be fixed without draining the tank, insurance is insurance. FWIW I would just use them and apply a silicone grease in addition to the gaskets.
If they look and feel like they are in excellent condition, chances are in your favor that they are. However, a leaking bulkhead is not something that can be fixed without draining the tank, insurance is insurance. FWIW I would just use them and apply a silicone grease in addition to the gaskets.
Which silicon grease should I use and exactly where should I use it?
THX
kcress
10/08/2010, 02:26 PM
If you are never gong to use the holes do yourself a favor and plug them.
Having a bunch of big things sticking out the bottom is a royal PITA. You have to provide big holes in your stand top. Then you have a bunch of potential leaks. Threaded piping generally sucks. It's hard to tighten everything up. You'll go thru several fill-ups and drains as you discover tiny leaks. They will add some added risk if you're in earthquake country because a jolt that makes the tank slide will shear off the bulkheads whereas you might otherwise get away with a tank slightly skewed on the stand that you can drain and re-center.
You can just take any scrap of acrylic that's an inch bigger than the holes, slobber Weldon 16 on it and slap it over the holes. It all gets covered with sand.
If you are never gong to use the holes do yourself a favor and plug them.
You can just take any scrap of acrylic that's an inch bigger than the holes, slobber Weldon 16 on it and slap it over the holes. It all gets covered with sand.
The tank and stand came with the closed loop holes and plumbing.
Im 95% sure I will not use the closed loop so there is no reason I should have the bulkheads installed ready for future usage?
If I decide to plug the holes for the close loop is it something I can do myself? if the bottom of the tank is 3/4" acrylic should I use 3/4" acrylic to cover them or would 1/2" be enough?
So weldon 16 would be the best glue to use?
THX again
Well after thinking about it its a no brainer I should plug the holes...
What Im gonna do is first plug them from the inside of the tank and after testing it for leaks for a couple of days I will plug the holes from the bottom of the tank for extra safety...
Is there a reason why I shouldn't plug the holes from the bottom for extra safety and just plug them from the inside?
kcress
10/09/2010, 05:45 PM
Well after thinking about it its a no brainer I should plug the holes...
What Im gonna do is first plug them from the inside of the tank and after testing it for leaks for a couple of days I will plug the holes from the bottom of the tank for extra safety...
Is there a reason why I shouldn't plug the holes from the bottom for extra safety and just plug them from the inside?
Zero value in plugging them from beneath. All the "plugging" comes from the water pressure pushing the plug onto the inside bottom of the tank. So once you have glue completely covering the overlap there are no further possibilities for leaks.
Find the piece, put on the glue, set it centered over the hole you're plugging, and then set something that weights a pound or so on top of it. After about 8hrs take the weight off and examine the result. It will be easy to see that there are no channels thru the glue from the side, to the hole. If you see no channels you have it done. Rarely will there be a problem.
Here's what I did on my tank a few weeks ago.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/mn9xj661cq.jpg
You don't even have to get real hung-up on the patch thickness. The tank bottom is doing all the structural work for the tank. All you need to do is stop vertical water column of a few pounds per square inch. If the hole is relatively small then all you need is material at least half the thickness of the bottom material. Here my bottom is 1/2" and I used 3/8" for my plug.
Zero value in plugging them from beneath. All the "plugging" comes from the water pressure pushing the plug onto the inside bottom of the tank. So once you have glue completely covering the overlap there are no further possibilities for leaks.
Find the piece, put on the glue, set it centered over the hole you're plugging, and then set something that weights a pound or so on top of it. After about 8hrs take the weight off and examine the result. It will be easy to see that there are no channels thru the glue from the side, to the hole. If you see no channels you have it done. Rarely will there be a problem.
Here's what I did on my tank a few weeks ago.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/mn9xj661cq.jpg
You don't even have to get real hung-up on the patch thickness. The tank bottom is doing all the structural work for the tank. All you need to do is stop vertical water column of a few pounds per square inch. If the hole is relatively small then all you need is material at least half the thickness of the bottom material. Here my bottom is 1/2" and I used 3/8" for my plug.
Nice plug you did there, what cement did you use? I was recommended to use Weld-on #3 on the plug and after its dry use weld-on #16 around the plug for extra safety.
I got four 1.875" holes and two 3.25" holes to plug on 3/4" acrylic.
Which acrylic cement should I use and would 1/4" acrylic plug be ok or should I step up to 1/2" acrylic?
khaosinc
10/09/2010, 09:15 PM
I use a mix of weld on 3 and 16. I found using a hole saw gets a very nice round hole. then they small 1/4" hole is then very easy to patch. I used #3 for the main 'gluing' and 16 arounf the edges like you mentioned. I've found squirting a little WO-3 over the 16 gets rid of alot of the bubbles and such and makes a cleaner patch. (it is designed to thin #16 in the directions)
K
kcress
10/09/2010, 10:44 PM
Nice plug you did there, what cement did you use? I was recommended to use Weld-on #3 on the plug and after its dry use weld-on #16 around the plug for extra safety.
I got four 1.875" holes and two 3.25" holes to plug on 3/4" acrylic.
Which acrylic cement should I use and would 1/4" acrylic plug be ok or should I step up to 1/2" acrylic?
I cheated and cut the plug out with my CNC router. I also cut out inside plugs with it and glue them into the holes when I have to have flush fill-ins. Kind of a PITA.
I used only Weldon 16. As mentioned these type plugs are structurally trivial. 16 is way more than adequate. But certainly #4 would do it too. And a lap with 16 wouldn't hurt.
1/4" on the small holes. 3/8's on the large would do the trick. Head to the local purveyor of plastic and rummage the scrap bin.
khaosinc
10/09/2010, 11:41 PM
If you have one its a better option... I assumed most don't have access.
I would go to at least 1/2" 3/4" would make a cleaner patch IMO. I cut the hole and used a square patch over it, but like everything I tend to do everything with a little overkill.
If you have a local plastics supplier it should be quite cheap to rummage their scrap. Not much more for them to cut it as well if you don't have the tools handy.
Ok, Ive only found Weld-on #16 the 5oz bottles locally, should I use only the #16 to plug the holes?
Does the #16 require the special syringe?
kcress
10/11/2010, 03:12 PM
#16 comes in a tooth paste tube. You squeeze it out. It's pretty thick. It's about like clear molasses.
Well the closed loop holes are plugged with 1/2" acrylic disks. There are four 1.875" holes and two 3.25" holes.
The acrylic guy (red shirt) used a liquid glue to attach the acrylic disks to the bottom of the tank. Tomorrow when the glue dries I will use Weld-on #16 around the disks to completely seal both acrylics.
I will let the weld-on #16 dry for 2 days, fill the tank with water and test for leaks.
If there are no leaks I will glue with the weld-on #16 under the tank 1/4" acrylic disks just for extra safety and to be able to sleep good at night knowing that the large holes are plugged right.
Any recommendations?
THX in advance
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/k-mus/IMG_0032.jpg
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/k-mus/IMG_0030.jpg
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/k-mus/IMG_0033.jpg
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/k-mus/IMG_0034.jpg
How long should I wait for the water thin glue/cement to dry before adding the weld-on #16 around the edge of the acrylic disks?
How long should I wait after using the weld-on cement to add water to test for leaks? weld-on # 16 reaches 80% strength after 16 hours and continues to increase after several weeks.
khaosinc
10/21/2010, 04:22 PM
I had water for the leak test in both of mine in 24 hours.... held just fine.
I did weld-on#16 all around the acrylic disks, a couple of hours later its showing some air bubbles where I applied the weld-on#16, tomorrow when its completely dry could I apply an extra coat of weld-on #16?
lordofthereef
10/21/2010, 05:09 PM
I would have just used bulkheads. No reason to glue up holes already drilled IMO. May want to use them somewhere down the road.
BoBilo
10/22/2010, 09:04 AM
I just purchased a glass tank with a closed loop hole in the bottom. From what i've read and heard putting acrylic to glass usually does not seal well. Has anybody tried it?
well its been almost 24 hours since I applied weld-on #16 around the disks, do you guys know if I could do another coat of weld-on #16 on top of the one I did yesterday just for extra reinforcement?
THX
hebygb
10/22/2010, 12:19 PM
I have only seen Weldon #16 in a tube... It is the same consistency as superglue gel. put a liberal continuous ring on the underside of the patch, center, twist it around a bit to assure even and thorough coverage under the patch, place the small 1 Lb weight on it to keep it in place.
Rest assured that once cured, these will not break free or leak.
kcress
10/22/2010, 01:46 PM
I just purchased a glass tank with a closed loop hole in the bottom. From what i've read and heard putting acrylic to glass usually does not seal well. Has anybody tried it?
The problems stems from the fact that acrylic doesn't silicone well and silicon is the glue you need to use on sealing glass.
Just use little squares of glass. They're cheap and compatible.
How long should I wait to test for leaks after the weld-on #16
kcress
10/22/2010, 07:39 PM
Well, since the #16 isn't actually doing anything I'd give a day..
Acrylics
10/23/2010, 08:25 AM
well its been almost 24 hours since I applied weld-on #16 around the disks, do you guys know if I could do another coat of weld-on #16 on top of the one I did yesterday just for extra reinforcement?
THXcould you? yes, would it help? not likely. If the disks were glued on well at all, adding any 16 is pointless. Just silicone would have been just fine, but... :)
James
could you? yes, would it help? not likely. If the disks were glued on well at all, adding any 16 is pointless. Just silicone would have been just fine, but... :)
James
James thx for the advise, could I use silicon around the disks on top of the weld-on #16 just for extra reinforcemen and if so which one should I use?
Sorry for all this silly questions, the thing is that Im H2O phobic with tanks leaking... Thats the main reason I plugged the closed loops holes, to many bulkheads and plumbing for potential leaks...
Acrylics
10/23/2010, 10:55 AM
James thx for the advise, could I use silicon around the disks on top of the weld-on #16 just for extra reinforcemen and if so which one should I use?You can, but in reality - it would be as pointless as adding more 16. That said, if it's really gonna help ya sleep better at night, I'd use GE 1200 series. Dow Corning 795 actually sticks to acrylic rather well and better than any other silicone - but does take close to 2 weeks to fully cure. But again, adding any anything at all won't do anything to help. The original joint your plastics guy did is all that is necessary, and even that is overkill :)
HTH,
James
You can, but in reality - it would be as pointless as adding more 16. That said, if it's really gonna help ya sleep better at night, I'd use GE 1200 series. Dow Corning 795 actually sticks to acrylic rather well and better than any other silicone - but does take close to 2 weeks to fully cure. But again, adding any anything at all won't do anything to help. The original joint your plastics guy did is all that is necessary, and even that is overkill :)
HTH,
James
Ok, thx again for your help, Im gonna skip the silicon and extra glue.
When should I test for water leaks I had the disks glued with water thin glue 3 days ago and the weld-on #16 2 days ago?
THX in advance
Acrylics
10/23/2010, 03:20 PM
Ok, thx again for your help, Im gonna skip the silicon and extra glue.
When should I test for water leaks I had the disks glued with water thin glue 3 days ago and the weld-on #16 2 days ago?It's fine now. If it were a structural component - I'd recommend waiting another few days, but no worries on this...
Might simply want to do a smell test though; if it still smells like solvent - there's still some curing left to do and you might want to wait. If you can't smell it - fill 'er up :)
James
It's fine now. If it were a structural component - I'd recommend waiting another few days, but no worries on this...
Might simply want to do a smell test though; if it still smells like solvent - there's still some curing left to do and you might want to wait. If you can't smell it - fill 'er up :)
James
THX, will fill it on monday to test for leaks... :bounce3:
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