NEW 125 gal setup

[NYinfamous2k2]

Hi, RC peoples. Im new to this forum so I just wanted to introduce myself. Ive been a fish keeper for about 18 years now but I would still consider myself low intermediate level in the fish keeper world where there are so many knowledgeable people. I have always keep fresh water tanks ranging from predator sa/ca tanks to african cichlids, although I dont have as many anymore just a 55 gal severum tank. Always wanted to do saltwater, but I know ZERO about the marine game. doing alot of learning in the past few weeks.

So i finally decided to take to plunge into the marine world. Right now I have an empty 125 gal (used to be african tank with 250lbs lace rock) thats not drilled and I dont plan to drill it. The only piece of equiptment I have to start this tank is the gravity overflow its a eshopps rated for 1200gph. I would like to do a sump/refugium with a deep sand bed under the tank. My question is I have a spare 20 gal and a spare 30 gal. would it be wise to try to build one out of one of these tanks, probably the 30. or should I just go buy a premade one. My lfs guy offered me a large sump, I dont remember the size with a protein skimmer that he said would easily handle a 125 for $350. good deal ? or pass and build my own? and any other advice you want to throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Jarret]

It can be incredibly cheap to build your own sump so I would go that route. As far as what size you need you can go as big as you want.

The advantage to building your own is that once you figure out what skimmer you are going with you can customize the sump to work with the skimmer. Plus building your own can allow you to create all types of different compartments and what not.

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html Check out this site as well, a ton of great information about sumps plus it gives you plenty of ideas on possible setups.

[NYinfamous2k2]

Great, I just didnt know if the 30 gal or 20 gal wouldnt work for whatever reason, maybe size dimensions. im guessing that is ideal to have the refugium as larg as possible and the least amont of room in the skimmer chamber, and I believe I read somewhere that there is a minimum size for the sump/return chamber right?

[jimnrose]

I have a 125g display, 29g sump and a 29g fuge. I barely get away with a 29g for the sump.. The first chamber holds my Oct-x 200 & the send chamber holds the return pump, pumps for the reactors and the fuge as well as the ATO. This compartment must aslo have sufficient reservoir to take the return water from the sump pump when the power is dropped. Jim
BTW, Beananimal's 'Silent & Safe Overflow System' is excellent. It's on the DIY fourum and he provides all the assistance to complete the project.

[cjs3055]

Do you have any pics??

[Palting]

Drilling tanks is not hard, and is way better than HOB overflows. Even the overflow manufacturers will tell you that. I seriously suggest you look into that now while the tank is still empty. Once you get comfortable with the idea of drilling the tank, guess what? You can also drill your 20 and 30 gal tanks and make them both the refugium/sump/skimmer/reactor chamber/dosing sstation, or whatever else you want to do in the future as you and your tank mature and get more ambitious.

I have a 150 gal DT, a 20 gal refugium, and a 30 gal sump. It works!

[NYinfamous2k2]

Truuuee, I didnt even think about using both tanks. Jimnrose do you have pics of your system cuz im a little confused when trying to picture how yours is set up. and If I did the 30 and 20 (if they both fit) what do you recommend that need the most room drain chamber with the skimmer, fuge, or sump?
(and thanks for the overflow advice im going to look into that thread)

palting - I definitely wouldnt mind drilling my 20 or 30 gal, but possibly messing up my 125 is a little nerve racking. Plus if I want to upgrade in the future I can sell it in its unmodified form. Which is the safest way to keep from overflowing in case of a power outtage or unforeseen circumstance?
And you said you have a 20g fuge and 30g sump. wheres your skimmer? do you have your draing going right into your refugium? then pumped into the sump?

Thanks alot guys

[jimnrose]

I can take the pictures this evening but my porblem is not knowing how to upload them onto the forum.
In my case I have my 125g built into a wall with all the support equipment (tanks [29g sump, 29g fuge, 20g RO/DI, 20g spare], controls, filters, power panel, storage) in cabinets on both sides and above the 125g display.
I can give you a list of my equipment if thatcould help you. My ststem is only 9 months old and selecting the pumps, lighting, skimmer, reactors, etc was done by recommendations from Reef Cental forums.
If someone can provide the instructions (please make it simple) I'll forward the pics Jim

[Jarret]

Truuuee, I didnt even think about using both tanks. Jimnrose do you have pics of your system cuz im a little confused when trying to picture how yours is set up. and If I did the 30 and 20 (if they both fit) what do you recommend that need the most room drain chamber with the skimmer, fuge, or sump?
(and thanks for the overflow advice im going to look into that thread)

palting - I definitely wouldnt mind drilling my 20 or 30 gal, but possibly messing up my 125 is a little nerve racking. Plus if I want to upgrade in the future I can sell it in its unmodified form. Which is the safest way to keep from overflowing in case of a power outtage or unforeseen circumstance?
And you said you have a 20g fuge and 30g sump. wheres your skimmer? do you have your draing going right into your refugium? then pumped into the sump?

Thanks alot guys

Did you happen to check out that link I provided in my first response? It has a lot of great information just on that page as well with some pics (links at the bottom) of sample sump designs.

The 3 links at the bottom "Everything you want to know about sumps - Part 1,2,3" is also another great place for info. May be a little bit overkill but you can never really know too much in this hobby! :thumbsup:

[Palting]

Truuuee, I didnt even think about using both tanks. Jimnrose do you have pics of your system cuz im a little confused when trying to picture how yours is set up. and If I did the 30 and 20 (if they both fit) what do you recommend that need the most room drain chamber with the skimmer, fuge, or sump?
(and thanks for the overflow advice im going to look into that thread)

palting - I definitely wouldnt mind drilling my 20 or 30 gal, but possibly messing up my 125 is a little nerve racking. Plus if I want to upgrade in the future I can sell it in its unmodified form. Which is the safest way to keep from overflowing in case of a power outtage or unforeseen circumstance?
And you said you have a 20g fuge and 30g sump. wheres your skimmer? do you have your draing going right into your refugium? then pumped into the sump?

Thanks alot guys

If you've never done any drilling, the thought of messing up is intimidating. However, once you've done a glass hole or two, you'l see how easy it really is. Check out the instructional videos at glass-holes.com. Yes, it is that easy.

And as far as resale, I personally would rather buy a used drilled tank than a non-drilled one.

To prevent overflowing in a power outage, you leave enough room in the sump to handle it. To verify, you do a power out test. With everything off, the water in the sump should rise to a MAXIMUM level of 1" from the top of the sump. Of course, the working level is usually way below that.

My set-up is a little different than most. I pump from the main section of my sump (30 gal) to my refugium (20 gal), and the refugium then drains into the return section of the sump. The skimmer is in the 30 gal, whre I also have prefilters, carbon pillows, reactors, heaters(or used to), UV sterilizer. Lots of different ways of plumbing a sump, particularly if you will have two different tanks acting as one sump.

[theatrus]

Most standard glass tanks 75G and up are at least tempered on the bottom. You can't drill tempered.

I would use the bigger tank as a sump. You'll need more space to handle the volume of water you get when the return pump stops.

[NYinfamous2k2]

I can give you a list of my equipment if thatcould help you. My ststem is only 9 months old and selecting the pumps, lighting, skimmer, reactors, etc was done by recommendations from Reef Cental forums.
If someone can provide the instructions (please make it simple) I'll forward the pics Jim

That list would be much appreciated, I will take all the info I can get (even though my head is about to explode from days apon days of reading and research in any spare moment lol, not to mention the wifey getting restless from the lack of attention ha)
posting pictures is childs play to the complexity of your tank lol
go to imageshack.com under the upload bar click browse. find your picture and select it. under the email bar theres an option to resize image. make sure the size is 640x480 for message boards. then click upload now. then copy the "forum code" and paste it on the page.
thanks again
also I checked out that silent and safe overflow unit and that is just a bit to complicated for me lol

Did you happen to check out that link I provided in my first response? :
I did, great info on there, But I still need to get alittle more, such as the small details, size of each chamber and if im going to use the 20gal and 30 gal then which tank do I use for what , im guessing split the 30 into 2 chamber and now im back to which chamber for what and how to get the flow to the other tank.

If you've never done any drilling, the thought of messing up is intimidating. However, once you've done a glass hole or two, you'l see how easy it really is.
My set-up is a little different than most. I pump from the main section of my sump (30 gal) to my refugium (20 gal), and the refugium then drains into the return section of the sump. The skimmer is in the 30 gal, whre I also have prefilters, carbon pillows, reactors, heaters(or used to), UV sterilizer. Lots of different ways of plumbing a sump, particularly if you will have two different tanks acting as one sump.

Actually looking further into it I would definitely be interested in drilling the tank, especially because of the noise factor, I read reviews on the hob overflows and seen a number of complaints about noise, So im guessing a drilled overflow/drain would be much more quiet right? I seen this on youtube if anyone has tried this mething seems fairly simple, and said to be quiet, any thoughts on that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pv3u0Sa1tk

Most standard glass tanks 75G and up are at least tempered on the bottom. You can't drill tempered.

I would use the bigger tank as a sump. You'll need more space to handle the volume of water you get when the return pump stops.

Wait so your saying I CANT drill my 125 gal??? I hope thats not the case because it seems like the wat to go . ok so your the second person that said use the 30 for the sump. sorry for the very "newbie" question but when you say the sump are you refering the chamber or entire seperate tank just with the return pump in, b.c. after all the reading I do they just keep mentioning sump sump sump without explaing exactly what it is and just assume I already know.

[jimnrose]

This is my equipment list:
125g acrylic display tank
29g acrylic sump tank (divider at 16" for skimmer section)
29g glass refugium tank
20g acrylic spare (hospital/salt water prep tank)
sump ppump - Quiet 1, Pentair 4000 [1017 phh @ 1"; 50W]
fuge/reactor pump - miniJet 606 (160gph)
2 reactors for Phosban & carbon; TLC Model 150
Ranco Temp Controller [safety to prevent over heating.]
2 - 100w Jager heaters
72 3w LED's [I chose LED lighting system]
3- 24volt power supplies 6.4a Potrans FS-15024-1
12 BuckPuck LED drivers (96 leds/driver)
6 fans; Artic/AF PWM AF 8025 (from Coolguys.com)
5 - 1.5" x 1.5" x 60" aluminum U extrusions (heat sinks)
3 - 24 hr timers.
Octopus skimmer OCT_X 200
3 power heads; Koralia 4 (plus 1 spare for mixing salt water)
1power head: Koralia 1 (for fuge tank)
RO/DI system: Filter Guys Ocean Reef +1
Fuge light 1 - 9w spiral FL, 5000K
Sand Fiji Pink Aragonite (grain size 0.5mm avg.)

That's my goodie list

Initially, I had the wrong sand.

Jim

[Palting]

Most standard glass tanks 75G and up are at least tempered on the bottom. You can't drill tempered.

I would use the bigger tank as a sump. You'll need more space to handle the volume of water you get when the return pump stops.

Wait so your saying I CANT drill my 125 gal??? I hope thats not the case because it seems like the wat to go . ok so your the second person that said use the 30 for the sump. sorry for the very "newbie" question but when you say the sump are you refering the chamber or entire seperate tank just with the return pump in, b.c. after all the reading I do they just keep mentioning sump sump sump without explaing exactly what it is and just assume I already know.

You can not drill tempered glass. That does not mean you can not drill your tank. Several people here have drilled their 125 gal tank, but in the BACK . Confirm your back glas is not tempered, then look up Rayn's build thread in this forum. He has a 125 gal drilled in the back with a Herbie/bienimal system.

[NYinfamous2k2]

This is my equipment list:
125g acrylic display tank
29g acrylic sump tank (divider at 16" for skimmer section)
29g glass refugium tank
20g acrylic spare (hospital/salt water prep tank)
sump ppump - Quiet 1, Pentair 4000 [1017 phh @ 1"; 50W]
fuge/reactor pump - miniJet 606 (160gph)
2 reactors for Phosban & carbon; TLC Model 150
Ranco Temp Controller [safety to prevent over heating.]
2 - 100w Jager heaters
72 3w LED's
3- 24volt power supplies 6.4a Potrans FS-15024-1
12 BuckPuck LED drivers (96 leds/driver)
6 fans; Artic/AF PWM AF 8025 (from Coolguys.com)
5 - 1.5" x 1.5" x 60" aluminum U extrusions (heat sinks)
3 - 24 hr timers.
Octopus skimmer OCT_X 200
3 power heads; Koralia 4 (plus 1 spare for mixing salt water)
1power head: Koralia 1 (for fuge tank)
RO/DI system: Filter Guys Ocean Reef +1
Fuge light 1 - 9w spiral FL, 5000K
Sand Fiji Pink Aragonite (grain size 0.5mm avg.)

That's my goodie list

Initially, I had the wrong sand.

Jim

Niiiceee, thats a sweet list. I like the idea of the LED's, I looked into them a year or two ago, how are they working out? did you go with the cree's?
So let me see if im picturing this correctly. the water drains into the skimmer chamber of the 29gal thats split, then you pump the water to the other 29 gal with just the refugium, then pump the water back into the return chamber of the first 29 gal and pump it back into the display? did you see my post on how to "post" a picture on the thread? b.c. Im a visual creature, I need to SEE things to really get a grip on the task. Im constantly going to my lfs so I can visually look at how they set up little things here and there. also is your tank drilled or are you using a hob overflow, and are you happy with which ever type of over flow you have, noise wise?

You can not drill tempered glass. That does not mean you can not drill your tank. Several people here have drilled their 125 gal tank, but in the [I]BACK . Confirm your back glas is not tempered, then look up Rayn's build thread in this forum. He has a 125 gal drilled in the back with a Herbie/bienimal system.

the bottom is most likely tempered right? ill confirm the back of the tank when I get off work. lol the herbie/bienanimal system lol I saw that thread, comical how everyone was debating about who thought of it first. the system looks great but is a little out of my league plumbing wise. I posted a much more simplistic silent overflow system idea that I found on youtube, I believe it was a "herbie" idea also. any thought on that system? its a few posts up ^

[jimnrose]

I just took some pictures andwill take more this evening. The tannk is a see thru which looks good in the day but isn't good tophotograph because the room behind the tank comes into the pics.

Yes my sump is located on the side of the display with the first chamber holding the skimmer and the second chamber returning the water to the sisplay as well as housing the reactors and the pump for the fuge, as well as the primary pump (sump). The fuge tank is located over the sump pump and has it's own pump to control the flow rate. The fuge water soes back to the display dircectly (gravity flow) in case I want to grow copapods in the fuge. The RO/Di is located above the fuge and feels water to the sump via float valve with a timer to restrict the fill time to whats required (1 gal/day) [thiswas recommended on a forum to protect from malfunctional float valve thereby causing flooding]. My RO/DI is in the garage and feed the RO/DI tank via 1/4" poly tumbing into a solenoid/timer to a float valve on a 2 hr weekly fill schedule. There is also a tee to direct water to the 20g 'salt mixing' tank. This tank is located on the opposite side to the sump,fuge,&RO/DI tanks.

As for the LED's. I'm very havppy with them. THey are wired into 3 circuit. Each circuit is run by a timer and provided power to 4 drivers that have 6 led'seaach. The LED's are the 3W Crees with a 50/50 mix of white and royal blue. They are running at different power levels. Average is 1.7watts but some are at .5watts (low for early & late effect) while others are at 2.3 watts. There is no heat problem and there is maximum flexibility on power levels, timing cycles, and adding or changing LED's. This technology is new therefore will only get better and cheaper as time flies bye. MY tank is only
17" deep thereby allowing me get away with only 72 LED's. Water depth is a liability for any lighting system.

Jim

[theatrus]

Wait so your saying I CANT drill my 125 gal??? I hope thats not the case because it seems like the wat to go . ok so your the second person that said use the 30 for the sump. sorry for the very "newbie" question but when you say the sump are you refering the chamber or entire seperate tank just with the return pump in, b.c. after all the reading I do they just keep mentioning sump sump sump without explaing exactly what it is and just assume I already know.

You need to check - some brands are bottom tempered, some are all tempered, and it varies based on date of manufacture.

The simplest test is to use an LCD screen (a polarized light source, note that OLEDs are not polarized), and a polarized set of sunglasses. There are numerous threads here on how to check that.

The sump is the entire setup, you can use multiple tanks underneath for say a refuge and a sump. Generally the sump is divided to at least a constant level zone (for the skimmer) and a varying return zone. The refuge can go multiple places.

[NYinfamous2k2]

So I cant find for sure if the glass is tempered , no brand markings to look it up and I dont have any polarized sunglasses only the cheap $5 gas station ones lol so thats not going to cut it. I cant drill the bottom, which was my idea when contemplating this, b.c its most likely tempered so taking the chance to drill might not be worth it. Hob should do. Im liking the idea of having the multi tank sump, the drain/skimmer chamber and return chamber in the 30gal and refugium in a seperat 20 gal. I just have to figure out how to plumb it, Can this be done with out pvc and just hoses?
also I put the 2 tanks up to my stand and they will fit but it will be very tight in there all around.
jimnrose - im going to start looking up some of your equiptment thanks again for the list, how do you like that skimmer?

[Palting]

So I cant find for sure if the glass is tempered , no brand markings to look it up and I dont have any polarized sunglasses only the cheap $5 gas station ones lol so thats not going to cut it. I cant drill the bottom, which was my idea when contemplating this, b.c its most likely tempered so taking the chance to drill might not be worth it. Hob should do. Im liking the idea of having the multi tank sump, the drain/skimmer chamber and return chamber in the 30gal and refugium in a seperat 20 gal. I just have to figure out how to plumb it, Can this be done with out pvc and just hoses? also I put the 2 tanks up to my stand and they will fit but it will be very tight in there all around.
jimnrose - im going to start looking up some of your equiptment thanks again for the list, how do you like that skimmer?

Yes, you can use mostly hoses. I do, as I like the idea of being able to change the hosing arrangements and routes at a moments notice. You will still need PVC bulkheads and/or PBVC barbs and connectors.

Here's a pic of my sump and refugium if it helps you any:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/Kalawing/IMG_1329.jpg

[ocfishaddicts]

thanks for the pic of your setup... i saw a really cool sumps that was large enough that they used it for a frag grow tank as well (had a separate light). also, i haven't seen and "enclosed" sump like that with the covering tightly over it... are those actual lids or??? i heard that having air circulation over the surface water was ideal.

the use of a refigium is a great idea - we did a lot of research and wound-up putting on in ours even though it's not as big as i would have liked

other sump best practice that i have heard is bigger is better for many reasons

and last items to consider:

plumbing to have safe guards / valves and drill as few holes possible with planning, i.e., our first tank the lfs drill the returns through the back glass 3/4 ways up, we had leaks...

over flow box/outlet and returns flow volumn coordination with pumps

well that's our 2 cents... hope it helps

[NYinfamous2k2]

Actually that pic helps alot, its one thing to talk about it and another to actually see it, puts everything in prospective. thanks. So it looks like you just have a high bulkhead on the fuge and a low one on the return chamber so the water is exchanged by gravity right. do you have some sort of screen or filter bag over the bulkhead in the fuge to stop anything from getting in there?
thats how much space I would have with the 20 n 30 gal under the stand , good to see it works for you. I also looks like you have one drain pipe to the sump then pump water to the fuge, have you thought about T'ing off the drain one to the skimmer chamber and the other to the fuge so you can regulate flow to the fuge with a ball valve, b.c I will have 2 drain hoses and was thinking of one to the skimmer chamber and one to the fuge with the ball valve.
Ha sorry im killing you guys with questions But this is just all so new to me I want to cover all the bases and do it right the first time.

[Palting]

Yes, I have a pump going about 300 gph from the central section of the sump to the fuge, and the fuge then drains by gravity to the return section of the sump. I cut up a plastic basket and used that as a strainer covering the fuge drain to keep large things from going in.

There are actually 2 drains from the DT, one on each side of the sump, one for each of those two filter towers you see. It's a marineland acrylic sump, and is not something people here will recommend to you since it uses biowheels. If it weren't for me getting flak from others here, I would recommend it to you. Anyway, that's a whole other discussion altogether.

On my set-up, the water drains to the two towers, goes thought sevral layers of mechanical filters of increasing density, then through activated carbon pillows, then to the biological filtration by the biowheels, then to a central section. The processed water in the central section then gets distributed for further processing by the skimmer, the refugium, the phosphate reactor. Everything then goes to the separate return section, and is pumped back to the DT. In the DT, I have about 100lbs live rock with 4 koralia 750's and a 2" sand bed for in-tank processing. When I say I like ALL forms of filtration, I am not kidding :).

For oxygen exchange, a question brought up by ocfishaddicts, those drains are really, really bubbly, but is quiet because it is completely enclosed. Then there is the aeration by the oversized skimmer, and last but not least, the whole 6 feet top of the DT is open with the 4 koralias agitating and pumping away. I don't have an ORP lester, but I am sure my dissolved O2 just HAS to be way up there.

Anyway, this is just one option for you, something to give you ideas. There are lots' of options and ideas out there. One will be right for you :D.

[NYinfamous2k2]

Thanks alot Palting that was a great break down of how your system run, definitely helped me get a better grip on the process. Going you be using alot of your idea as well as the others that helped me out on this thread. I,ve got a stupid question, do you get the plumbing (bulkheads, piping, elbows etc) from your local hardware store or fish store? Going to pick up the supplies I need this week so I can get the ball rolling.

[Palting]

Bulkheads I got from glass-holes.com, same time I got the glass hole cutters. I could not find any bulkheads at the local hardware stores. Anyway, the shipping and costs were cheap, and fast delivery, too. Everything else I got from the local Lowe's. The workers there were actually fascinated by the whole process, and were very helpful in mixing and matching connectors, elbows, barbs, hose and pipe sizes, and whatnot :).

[NYinfamous2k2]

alright alright So I finally picked up some bulkhead, random fittings a hoses. But yet again I have another question. I think im going to follow paltings idea ( in the picture a few posts up) of utilzing 2 tanks one dedicated for a fuge and the other split for the protein skimmer chamber and return chamber. im going to use the gravity return to get the flow from the fuge back to the return chamber in the other tank. How hight should I put the bulk head on the fuge and how low on the return chamber? oh and if it makes a difference Im going to be filling the 20 gal fuge with a deep sand bed .