Algae control in trigger tank?

[joenels]

This may have been asked before and I can guess some of the basics but here goes...3 inch Undulatus in a 2 month old 50 breeder.Hoping he will be a slow grower but when he starts getting any size to him he gets a 75 gallon in the next room to himself.Im seeing some brown hair algae on the rocks that could just be diatom algae and part of the new tank cycle or could actually be the start of hair algae.either way looking to limit/remove it before it gets out of hand.No sump on this tank so fuge with cheato isnt an option...might try a floating clump of cheato in the display but would prefer not to.Lighting is 4x39 2x10k 2x actinic t5ho and have some lps/zoas/palys etc...nothing I mind him chewing on if the urge takes him but so far he is behaving.Skimmer is a Deltec MCE600 but is only run during the day due to being 2 feet from my head in the bedroom.So far no nitrates at all but he is still small and only gets ~10 3mm Spectrum pellets for dinner every day.Obviously hermits are out...what would he do with a sea hare?Should I plan on a large supply of phosban?Water changes are ten gallons weekly.Current in the tank is provided by a regent hob filter running carbon in socks and a koralia 2.Sorry for the lengthy post.

[palmer373]

a baby yellow might work a lil bit. i have one in my 75 and looks nice plus helps with algae. 50 is probably too small tho.

[joenels]

yellow tang?not with a undulatus....any fish put in the tank would more than likely lose eyeballs within minutes.If he doesnt blind it instantly he would probably harass it to death in a day or so...they dont play well with others.

[palmer373]

is the undy the only fish in the tank?

[extreme5450]

mean *** fish

[joenels]

yep he is and will be the only fish.Thought about trying something like a damsel or maroon clown but I dont have the heart...it would be murder.

[barbianj]

Vodka dosing will take care of the algae, and any hermits with thick shells will last a long time, especially the jumbo hermits.

[RegalAngel]

AlgaeFix......

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595003

[joenels]

But the larger hermits are all scavengers right?As far as I know none of the larger species look twice at algae...

[Recty]

Have you actually tried another fish in with the undulatus? I have a 3" that doesnt bother anyone, including a small striped blenny about 1/20th of his mass.

If it's really aggressive, one reason might be that you're starving him. 10 pellets a day for a 3" fish, especially a beefy fish like an undulated trigger, that's barely enough to sustain it. Mine eats easily 5x that, if not more.

In the wild they certainly dont just eat a stomach full once a day and then nothing else, multiple meals through the day (get an autofeeder if you need to) and some variety will most likely do wonders to tone down his aggression. Right now he probably sees every other fish as competition for a very limited food supply.

[joenels]

I havent actually tried another fish in there with him.He has had the tank to himself for over a month and I just assumed he would annihilate anything else.I am feeding him lightly as he is decidedly porcine(read:fat) and figured the 20-ish pellets daily he was getting was too much for him.Also with the tank being new and not having a skimmer on it for the first month I was trying to keep nutrients down.The pic in my avatar is not him...he has a distinct teardrop shape with the bulk being in the bottom.My daughter rarely looks at the tank but last night remarked on how fat and happy he looked.

[Recty]

Well, just my two cents, fish dont need to go on diets :) Look at pictures or videos of undulated triggers in the wild, or any fish in the wild for that matter. Almost all of them are much fatter than the ones we keep in our tanks.

A fat fish is usually just a sign of a very healthy, happy fish. Take a look at this picture of the fish in the wild... look at how fat it is.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/7/fish_album/Undulatus.jpg

The exception to this would be slower moving fish like anglers/lionfish that will eat themselves to death.

Anyway, my main point was that maybe it's aggressive because it's competing for food, but that was before you said you hadnt actually tried it with any other fish ;) So it's kind of a moot point.

[joenels]

I understand and wasnt really putting him on a diet due to his size although I do worry about overfeeding...just trying to cut back due to cyano/daitom and other algae and wanted to reduce nutrients for the moment.I will try to get a picture of him here soon but when I got him he was a bit sunken around the eyes and under the dorsal and is now fully fleshed there as well as having a potbelly.

[viggen]

reduce the time the lights are on &/or possibly get new bulbs

increase water flow

[Stuart60611]

As mentioned above, the single best method to control algae in a fowlr which you are currently not employing is carbon dosing, whether liquid (vodka or vinegar) or solid (bio pellets, etc.) This is by far the most direct and effective way to export nutrients in this context and should go a long way at eliminating your algae problems.

[joenels]

I was trying to get a feel for what others use long term as opposed to curing whats going on right now although I would like to nip that in the bud as well.I have been trying to read up on algaefix(all 59 pages) and it seems that works well for most people on most algaes.I am using carbon in socks in the hob filter as mentioned above and change that out once a month.Trying to stay away from dosing as it always caused me more trouble than it cured when I had the 75 set up as a full reef.I was only dosing two part then but it never seemed to balance out...one would always skew the other.anyway this is supposed to be a light duty single fish tank and I just wanted to get some opinions on keeping it algae free in the long run...skimming,running activated carbon,and frequent water changes seem to be the best bet and might try algaefix if things start to get out of hand.I am still tempted to try another fish in there but dont want to crowd him into nipping unless I need something like a lawnmower blenny or other herbivore.I would like a friendlier fish though...the undy comes out if I sit still but isnt in my face like a clown trigger or picasso usually is.Maybe with time he will feel safer but right now he tends to run and hide.I wanted a more boisterous personality in my trigger but clowns get too big too quick and picassos just seem a little mundane to me.

[coralfish]

as stated above....reduce light on time

[Stuart60611]

I was trying to get a feel for what others use long term as opposed to curing whats going on right now although I would like to nip that in the bud as well.


Again carbon dosing is a long term solution to your algae problems which does not merely deal with the symptom (algae) but rather instead directly deals with the source (excessive nutrients). I am not talking about activated carbon. Rather, dosing vodka, vinegar or using solid pellets is what I am referencing. Algae fix is great for geting algae exisiting in the tank under control, but I agree that it is not the best long term solution. Carbon dosing is something you can do in perpetuity and is the best tool in the chest for nutrient related problems. You really should consider this b/c I think it will really help both immediate and long term. I really do not know how anyone can manage to keep a heavily stocked fowlr algae free without carbon dosing because I have never been able to.

[joenels]

I will look into it closer...is there a sticky over in the chem forum?Does it help/hurt soft corals at all?I always worry about overdosing...I once confused my homemade mag solution with my alk solution and needless to say things got ugly quickly...

[Stuart60611]

I will look into it closer...is there a sticky over in the chem forum?Does it help/hurt soft corals at all?I always worry about overdosing...I once confused my homemade mag solution with my alk solution and needless to say things got ugly quickly...


Generally, it is only good for corals, but you should for sure be concerned about overdosing. The good news is that there is a very reliable tried and true method of vodka dosing which will assure that you have no overdosing problems. Read the below article which clearly spells everything out.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

[lars on live]

another option would be a turf scrubber. Grow alge where you want it and there will be less nutrients for it to grow in the tank.

[psykobowler]

Vodka dosing for sure will work as long as you have a good skimmer.

[joenels]

turf scrubber in the bedroom is not an option...unless they suddenly started smelling a lot better than I remember them or I am confusing them with something else.

[lars on live]

I have one running and I haven't noticed a smell.

[joenels]

couple of pics of the varmint...you can see the algae on the rocks?Looks a lot like dinos but hoping its just cyano/diatom algae.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i81/corwin67/IMG_0913.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i81/corwin67/IMG_0917.jpg

[joenels]

better pics of the algae:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i81/corwin67/IMG_0906.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i81/corwin67/IMG_0907.jpg

[Stuart60611]

You are very wise in thinking proactively and geting on top of your algae problem now. It has been my experience that as time passes the algae will gain a foothold and start to infest eveything. Once that happens , it can be incredibly difficult to get under control. You are nowhere near that point, but you are definitely showing signs of this eventuality if you do not attack the source and deal with it appropriately.

[joenels]

Thanks...I never really had an issue with the 75 gallon but my 20 long zoa garden became overrun with algae and I finally just gave up and broke both tanks down.I miss the reef tank...thought I could make do with tanganyikan cichlids but its just not the same.Now I just need to buy back all the good stuff I sold off in January...RODI etc.Lesson learned I guess...

[joenels]

Quick question re the vodka dosing...how will only running my skimmer 10-12 hrs a day affect the dosing or will it?There is zero chance of running it 24/7...its just too noisy to sleep with.