Help with my 18 gallon tank

[fishiegirl]

I'm new to this forum and could really use some help with ideas of what to put in my tank. I've had my tank for years, but for the first few years I only ever had 1 fish at a time (all damselfish). I've had a couple crabs and shrimp to. However, my dad mostly took care of it so I still don't know a whole lot. About 2 years ago our last fish died and we didn't replace it until recently. All that was in the tank was live rock and a piece of leather coral and the tank sorta got neglected. (I still have the leather coral BTW and its doing great)
Recently I decided to start cleaning the tank up so I can put some new stuff in. I checked all my levels and they are good I believe: pH-8.1, ammonia- 0, nitrate- almost 0, nitrite- 0. So, I went out and bought myself a Green Chromis and an emerald crab (to take care of my bubble algae problem due to years of not doing a great job cleaning the tank). 2 days later I decided to get a peppermint shrimp to help cut back on aiptasia. I know there are better ways to kill it off, but the Chromis seemed very stressed out so I didn't want to be sticking my hand all over the tank and stressing it out even more. As far as I can tell, the shrimp and crab are doing well. However, the Chromis seemed to be get worse each day I had him. His color was good, but he was acting very stressed out and strange (hanging around the bottom, hiding in rocks, not eating). Today was the 5th day I had him, and this morning when I saw him I knew he probably would not make it through the day based on experience with other fish, and unfortunately I was right. I'm thinking that maybe he was already sick when I got him and the stress of moving tanks made him get worse? I also read after I bought him that Chromis should be kept in groups. Might being kept alone have made him worse?
Also, I'd like to get a new fish for my tank, and in a perfect world I'd love to have a couple if my tank is large enough. Anyone have suggestions about inexpensive and hardy fish?
Sorry for the super long post! I tried to condense it but this is the best i could do. Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks

[shifty51008]

[welcome]

chromis will do fine by themselves I doubt that caused it to die, if it did have a parisite or something else that made it sick I suggest now leaving the tank fishless for 4-6 weeks.

in a 18 gal. tank you can prob. be fine with 3 maybe 4 fish depending on the type. a couple perc or osc. clowns, and a couple other small fish would be fine, clown goby, lawnmower blenny, ect. you can look here for a good range of hardy fish and the size they will get. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+2124

[fishiegirl]

OK thanks so much! I will keep the tank fishless for a little while just in case. I'll just use this time to get the tank cleaned up. I've been reading a lot about clean up crews- should I get anything other than the peppermint shrimp and emerald crab? I was thinking about maybe getting some snails to help with algae, but I'm not sure what would be good. Anyone have some suggestions?

[twelvejewelz]

My favorite snails are banded trochus snails hands down.They do a great job at eating the film and any algae. You might want to add some nassarius snails as well to keep your sand stirred. Also mabe 1 Turbo snail and a couple of cerith snails and your clean up crew would be complete. I would add 5 trochous, 5 nassarius, 5 cerith, and 1 turbo that would be a perfect mix of snails for all of your tanks needs. If you parameters are stable i would think its safe to add fish as you said the tank was up for a couple years. Like shifty says you an get away with 3-4 fish . Mabe 1 ocellaris clown or a pair, and mabe a shrimp goby and a firefish or something. Look at the list though for nano fish and your good to go. good luck!

[fishiegirl]

Thanks for all the info! I don't have sand for substrate. What I have seems to be a mixture of shell and coral pieces. Should I not get nassarius snails/ would there be a better choice? Also, I remember last time I had turbo snails they knocked my coral over while I was on vacation and almost killed all of it. Would getting a few more smaller snails make up for not getting a turbo snail?

[aleonn]

+1 on trochus and Nassarius snails... I love how they can flip themselves if they fall on their back. Nassarius snails would probably do fine without sand, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

A clownfish pair would do well in your tank too, and/or a Royal Gramma.

Perhaps you can epoxy or superglue down the leather coral to make it more stable.

[twelvejewelz]

I Have only a half inch of sand in my 20 just for looks and my nassarius snails are fine. There are little piles here and there that they find to burrow in. I would by one and see how it does and if it dosnt like the substrate then do not get anymore. +1 on the superglue and epoxy. Corals do better when their bases are stable as well. You dont have to get a turbo there just really good at eating the algae that why i just suggested one :) . The banded trochus are my personal favorite though and like aleonn says they can right themselves if they fall on their backs unlike some other snails. How fine is the shell and coral substrate do you have a picture?

[fishiegirl]

I've thought about trying to secure the coral. Its pretty much the first thing I put in the tank years ago though, and the way that it has grown, I'm not sure I could move it/secure it without causing serious damage to it. I'm thinking about maybe getting some smaller pieces of live rock to try to wedge the rock that the coral is attached to in place. If that works it would certainly give me some peace of mind. I like the clownfish idea. I think I might get a pair for the tank and keep it at that for now.

[fishiegirl]

Oops! I posted that response before I saw yours Tom. I don't have a picture at the moment but I will try to get some. The shells/ coral is not very fine. The pieces are probably about 1/8th of an inch. It really wasn't the best choice for a tank bottom because it has gotten super dirty and I haven't found a good way to fix that, but know I now for my next tank! Hopefully if everything goes well with this tank, I can convince my parents to get me a bigger tank as a christmas present :-)

[aleonn]

The trick for me to convince a parent about upgrading--keep things very clean and growing. Keep them involved in some livestock decision-making and feeding. Perhaps even bring them to a local fish store to see other coral and fish options. Then they may be more open to expanding the tank :). At least that's what worked for me hahah.

[fishiegirl]

Thanks for the advice! My dad loves the idea of getting a larger saltwater tank. The only issue is cost. My plan is to try to get a used larger tank off of craigslist, use my current protein skimmer which is meant for a 100 gallon tank, and then create a sump out of stuff I have lying around the house. I know I will have to pay for new lighting, but if thats the only thing we have to spend a lot on, we can manage that. The issue is the cost of getting a lot of live rock. But I'm thinking of using live rock from my current tank and supplementing it with dead live rock that I can get for cheap. However, I want to get rid of the aiptasia and bubble algae, and other algae, as best as I can so it doesn't transfer to the new tank, which is why I'm looking into getting a good clean up crew.

[twelvejewelz]

A good place to order rock from for the future is marcorocks.com .I ordered the 25lb key largo and added some fully cured live rock to see the dry rock with. BFS has some really nice dry rock as well. Definitely get all of those snails and you'll really be off to a good start!!

EDIT: also if your looking for a cheap tank wait until petco has the 1$ per gallon sale and you can get the 55 gallon for 55$ which is great. Then add in a 20 gallon long for a sump and your good to go :) .

[fishiegirl]

I actually have a spare tank that ive been keeping around to be turned into a sump if i ever get a new tank, so the $1 per gallon sale would be perfect. Ill def be on the lookout for that. Quick update on the tank- I got two top snails a few days ago and I've noticed a decrease in the algae already. Oh, and i got a strawberry basslet and he looks very healthy!

[Peter T]

Hello fishiegirl and welcome to the forums.

Not to insult your intelligence at all, but did you check your water readings after you re-cycled your tank? Or did you cycle your tank again at all? If you had no fish for the past two years, your LR is most likely dead and you have to re-cycle your tank. The bacteria on LR that is part of the nitrogen cycle also needs food to live, two years without food is a long time! That could be a big reason why your chromi is appearing stressed out. If you did re-cycle your tank just disregard this message. Hope you enjoy your time reefing. Its addictive!

[fishiegirl]

No insult at all! The live rock wasn't dead. The whole tank was actually very alive despite not having any fish in it. I was always seeing stuff crawling around in/ on the rocks, or in the substrate. I think they must've been living off of algae or something. I went back to the same fish store that I bought my Chromis from to buy the new fish, and I noticed that that the fish in the tank I bought my Chromis from looked sick and stressed as well. So I'm thinking there must have been something wrong with the fish when I bought it. Luckily the fish I have now seems to be doing great, so I'll just write it off to bad luck.

[Peter T]

Ah okay, it sound like you had some life in terms of bacteria in your tank still :). But even then, the output of waste products by your probably copepods/amphipods and bristleworms may be so minimal that not much bacteria lived on the rocks. There will really only be as much beneficial bacteria alive on the LR as can be supported based on how much waste products your tank inhabitants put out. Meaning if you have minimal life, you will have minimal bacteria.

I reread your first post and it seems you do have a leather coral alive (kudos!) from two years prior. But even then, the impact on bioload is very small. What may have happened is your tank is going through a mini-cycle as the bacteria are multiplying in response to the additional waste products created by the addition of the fish.

Another thing to think about is the amount of algae in your tank. If the tank is overrun with algae it may deplete O2 levels at night when your lights are off and the algae undergoes respiration and consume your O2 leading to stressed fish. I personally have never been through this, it is just something I have read may happen. It could be a combination of the two or you may be right and it can be just bad luck!

But all in all, it sounds like you are going pretty slow (which is good!) and on the right track. I would just advise you as you add additional fish and LR to just add a little at a time to keep your mini-cycles minimal if it happens at all.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain this just in case you or anyone who is new and may not understand can understand the process a little bit better.

[fishiegirl]

Ok thanks a lot for the explanation! When I first got my tank I was still very young, so my dad dealt with most of the technical stuff and now I'm working on figuring it all out for myself, so the info is very much appreciated. If my tank was going through a mini-cycle I would be seeing changes in the ammonia/ nitrite/ nitrate levels, correct? So far I haven't seen any, so I'm assuming that's not what happened.

[Peter T]

You are 100% correct. You would see your levels rise and drop accordingly if you are going through a mini-cycle. Guess that rules it out. One last thing I forgot to add about the drop in 02 that can be caused by algae is it drops pH as C02 is increased. A sudden drop in pH can be a very big reason for stressed out fish. It may be worth checking your pH levels about an hour or two after the lights go out if you have a bad algae problem. If this isn't the case, I'd blame it on bad luck! Just partially joking, there are so many other people here that can diagnose fish stress and illnesses better than I can.

Well, hope that helps and good luck!

[fishiegirl]

So my new strawberry basslet that was doing good doesn't seem to be doing so well anymore. I hadn't seen my peppermint shrimp in a few days so I wanted to make sure he was still alive by using a flashlight to look around my LR when the tank lights were off. Good news- the shrimp is fine. Not so good news- my fish is laying on the bottom of the tank, up against some LR. He's still alive for now, but he doesn't look like he's going to last very long. Water parameters were fine as of this morning. So now I'm trying to think of other things that would kill fish, and I know this is probably a stretch, but has anyone heard of aiptasia killing fish? I've been searching online and haven't found out a whole lot. I do have a lot in my tank, and the fish is fairly small, so if aiptasia can kill fish I'm thinking that might be what's happening.

[beadlocked450r]

Just a asking but how old is your test kit?I was using an older kit and it was testing good and I got a new api kit and found out my tank is a bit off

[fishiegirl]

It's pretty old. However, the results I got are the same as the ones when I got my water tested at my LFS, so I'm thinking that's not the issue. It can't hurt to pick up a new test kit though, so I'll be sure to do that when I get a chance. Oh and my coral, emerald crab, peppermint shrimp and snails are all doing well so that's another reason I'm thinking my water quality is okay.

[fishiegirl]

Apparently I over reacted a little last night- my strawberry basslet is doing fine now :)

[SushiGirl]

It was probably just sleeping. I had a scare like that before with a new flasher wrasse.