HELP! Electrically inclined ppl PLZ look! Breaker tripping issues!

[fraggleRocks]

I have a fuse box in my closet, and none of the fuses trip in there, its the main breaker in the back of the building that keeps tripping!

the breaker outside is 100A.

This is what I have running in my appartment at the time when it shuts off:

Central AC thats set at 73 ( i like it cold...)
Fridge
laptop plugged in
40 watt lightbulb in the bedroom
water cooler

whats on thats tank related:

mag 5 pump
Tunze 9410 protien skimmer
4x54 watt PC's
2x12 (or 13) watt t5s

stock pump on the 24g aquapod


- Before I reset the breaker I removed the mag 5, skimmer, and lights from the plugs. After re-setting the breaker I proceeded to turn on the lights in the tank, and re-connect the mag 5.

when I connected the mag 5, the breaker tripped again.

My AC was set at 73 at that time.

If I leave everything running, but turn of the tank lights and set the AC at 76, I have no issues, and can also turn on random lights/tv's/radios in the house without any problems.


Reasonable deductions lead me to believe its the pump/ac/lights combo, BUT this has only been happening frequently (4 to 5 times) in the last 3 days. I havent changed anything within this time period, so what is going on?

Is my pump shorting out and tripping the breaker? maybe the lights? How do I go about checking this?

Also, why dont the breakers in the breaker box INSIDE the appartment trip first? They are all smaller Amps than the main breaker outside on the side of the building.

I'm holding off for a logical explination before I go let maintenence know. If its something I could fix or do myself I'd much rather not get them involved, ad the company had recently switched owners and I dont want to get any crap from them about having a large tank upstairs and having electrical issues in the apt.

I also have my MH fixture wired up and ready to go, but I cant use it for fear of me not being home at the time and the breaker trips and shuts off everything in my apt.!

PLEASE PLEASE HELP!

my tank is currently in the dark, unattended (i'm in class) and the protien skimmer is on. Everything else in my apartment is unplugged except my fridge. air is set at 76 :(

[mcgyvr]

#1-please contact a qualified electrician.

If its the main breaker then "probably" the combination of all circuits in your house is exceeding the 100A rating. (you've got things like water heaters and other things you aren't accounting for in your list too)
Thats how they work.. The individual circuit breakers protect that secondary circuit and the main breaker protects the primary circuit.

A smart decision would be to turn off the AC (just for a little while you will make it) and plug in the mag5. If the circuit trips again then I would say you have an issue with the mag5..

Is there a ground probe in the tank? How about a GFCI circuit feeding the aquarium devices?

[kharmaguru]

100 amp panel is tons for an apartment. Is it one breaker - ie. a 15amp that's tripping on the main panel? If so, it simply could be that you have numerous things plugged into that one circuit, which in fact could be run in a not obvious line through your apartment (meaning you think you are plugging into seperate circuits but in fact are not). Also, breakers can weaken and trip randomly with no unusual circumstance, with the cure being to replace the breaker. If it's the big 100amp switch tripping - you could have a serious issue.

[fraggleRocks]

your RC id is very appropriate :D

Ground probe, No. GFCI circuit, yes. Ive tried turning off the a/c and plugging in the pump, everything ran fine. I turned on the lights with the pump/skimmer on, and left the a/c off. Everything fine also.

I realize there is a circuit overload, I just dont understand why does the main breaker trip but none of the smaller ones in the apt. trip? shouldnt the overlead also trip the ones inside the apt before it trips the one outside?

Also, why do you suppose this problem has only been happening within the last 3 days?

I really appreciate the help :)

[fraggleRocks]

100 amp panel is tons for an apartment. Is it one breaker - ie. a 15amp that's tripping on the main panel? If so, it simply could be that you have numerous things plugged into that one circuit, which in fact could be run in a not obvious line through your apartment (meaning you think you are plugging into seperate circuits but in fact are not). Also, breakers can weaken and trip randomly with no unusual circumstance, with the cure being to replace the breaker. If it's the big 100amp switch tripping - you could have a serious issue.

It IS the 100 Amp big breaker tripping, and none of the smaller ones in the apt. trip at all.

[kharmaguru]

Well mcgyvr is correct in the sense that the 100amp breaker protects the total circuit rather than the individual ones. I suppose it's possible that you are exceeding 100amps draw but I find it highly unlikely - your power bills would be outrageous if you could continuously draw that much. I would suspect that the 100amp breaker has become faulty and needs some professional hands-on diagnosis.

I just had another little thought. Are the fuses in your interior panel the correct ones? People sometimes replace them with slow blows or put in oversized fuses (30amp in a 15amp socket, etc.) which would prevent them from blowing and mask the individual problem.

[jonjonwells]

Most likely your main circuit breaker is going bad. They start to fail after years of use. I had to have one replaced a while back that was doing this.

Contact a qualified electrician.

[Paul B]

I have been a master electrician in Manhattan for 40 years and I have seen this before.
The smaller circuit breakers in your apartment are not meant to all be running at capacity at any one time. If they were and you had a 24 circuit panel with 24-15 amp breakers you would be using 360 amps and your 100 amp breaker would trip very quickly. So the individual ratings of each breaker have nothing to do with the 100 amp main. Most of the time the smaller breakers have no load or very little load so the main does not trip.
Is the circuit breaker panel in a basement and where does the electrical service enter the house from? In other words, the electric lines from the pole, do they enter the house right above your circuit breaker panel? Is your service underground or on a pole outside? Who is the manufacturer of the circuit breaker box? Does it say "Federal Electric? Do any of the breakers feel warm or vibrate?
Is your electric bill stupidly high?
Can you read the amperage of the central AC? Is there an electric stove or water heater?
It is easy to check what the problem is but not from here. that is why I am asking all these questions.

[fraggleRocks]

thanks for all the help guys. thankfully when I got home all the power was still on.

electric bill $160/mo. central heating/air

I have an electric stove and water heater. no gas.

i'm in a second floor apartment. the main breaker outside is on the back of the building on the ground floor and is on the same electrical panel as 5 other apartments (which are also 100Amp breakers...)

The breaker just went out again a min ago and I had already written this long reply... which I now had to re-write...ARG!

I cant read the amperage for the central AC. I talked to the person who used to live in this apartment, I just moved in here over a month ago, and they said that the A/C would periodically trip the main breaker in this apt.

But it just shut off, and I have my A/C at 75 at the moment.

I cant call an electrician to work on it, I think I have to call the maintenance office in the morning and get them to contact someone to do it. I'm only renting here, I don't think I have the right to get it done without their consent.

I'm going to check the breakers in the breaker box in the closet. I'll be back and post a layout of their quantity/amps

[fraggleRocks]

breaker box in the closet is as follows

Left side in order top to bottom:

50 and its labeled Heat/AC

40 Labeled Range

30 Labeled Hot Water

Right Side top to bottom:

20
20
20
20

None of the 20's are labeled

On the door of the box it has labels from where I suppose there was more breakers in there. left side is labeled 1,3,5,7 etc. for each spot and all are labeled. same with the right side. If those are supposed to coincide with individual breakers, then there are much fewer now than in the past.

None of them were tripped or off at all. If you need a picture of the box in the closet, i have one that I can post if needed. I can also take a pic of the outside breaker if needed.

[fraggleRocks]

Well mcgyvr is correct in the sense that the 100amp breaker protects the total circuit rather than the individual ones. I suppose it's possible that you are exceeding 100amps draw but I find it highly unlikely - your power bills would be outrageous if you could continuously draw that much. I would suspect that the 100amp breaker has become faulty and needs some professional hands-on diagnosis.

I just had another little thought. Are the fuses in your interior panel the correct ones? People sometimes replace them with slow blows or put in oversized fuses (30amp in a 15amp socket, etc.) which would prevent them from blowing and mask the individual problem.

how do I check what they were supposed to be to begin with? I don't have individually labeled fuses, just the breakers, if they replaced an old one with an incorrect new one, I would have no way of knowing that without having some kind of prior info as to what should have been in there to begin with. I don't know how to measure what it should be at this point in order to recognize if an incorrect size was used when it was replaced.

[Paul B]

If you have an electric stove, electric water heater and central AC 100 amps may not be enough. It does not matter if you have the AC set for 75 degrees, the compressor will still come on if the temp goes over 75. Your stove draws probably 40 or 50 amps, the heater may be 30 amps and your AC is about 30 amps.
Even if nothing is wrong with any of your pumps and appliances I can see that main tripping occasionally. Did you have the stove on when it tripped or were you running hot water? The hot water heater cycles on and off all day to keep the water hot even if you don't use the water.
The only way to check is with an amprobe which is a meter that tells you exactly how much amperage you are using. It is a meter that you just clamp around the wire and it reads amperage.
I bet they built that apartment and then later added the AC.
The last tenant said the main breaker tripped a few times and he probably didn't have a reef tank.
There may be little you can do to correct the problem but when they test with an amprobe that will tell.
That apartment could need more than 100 amps just for the few times that the AC cycles on with the water heater or stove.
How long are you living there and did the main breaker always trip?

[fraggleRocks]

it tripped 2 times since I moved in. Up until 3 days ago, then all hell has been breaking loose and its tripping repeatedly. Ive lived here a little over 1 month.

stove was not on at the time of it tripping. I had taken a shower 20minutes prior to it tripping this morning. I wasnt running hot water at the time.

[Paul B]

I still think it is the hot water heater which still would have been on 20 minutes after you took a shower and the AC. Only an amprobe will tell you the problem.
If you put the stove on I am sure it will trip.

[mcgyvr]

Just call maintenance.. tell them the main breaker keeps tripping. Thats it.. You just have a fish tank your not growing pot or anything. Surely the maintenance guy has a current/clamp meter and he will take 5 minutes and tell you if your even close to 100A or whatever. Its their problem not yours.. (Unless the real draw of all the equipment you have running is exceeding the apartments capacity of course)

[hvacman250]

You more than likely have a weak breaker. Get maintenaance to look into it via an electrician.

Unless you have a monster AC, as is 4-5 ton, which is doubtful in an apartment, the breaker is oversized. Most AC/heat pump compressors pull between 10-25 amps, with another 2-3 in the condenser fan motor. Total amp draw on an outdoor unit is generally between 20-25 in an average 2.5-3 ton unit. Lets say 30 max, which I NEVER see.

Water heater only lets one of the two elements on at one time. A 4500W element draws 18.75 amps at 240V.

Thats 48.75 amps MAX if no stove on. There is no way the outlets and lighting can be pulling another 50+ amps to trip a breaker.

Do you have an electric dryer in the apt?

Also, if you have electric strip heat, come winter time your problem is going to be much worse.

[fraggleRocks]

Thanks guys. Yeah I'll definitely call maintenance in the morning. This is getting ridiculous. Just got the canopy for my MH fixture done tonight. I want to install these puppies and there is no way with this breaker issue. Thank god I'm off tomorrow in case something happens and it trips again I'll be here.

no electric dryer in the apt. no washer/dryer at all.
Whats an electric strip heat?


The boyfriend is cooking at the moment, the tank lights are on, so is the pump and skimmer. the AC is set at 75. the breaker isn't tripping. I'm very confused.

I sincerely thank all of you for taking the time out to help me. I feel more confident now in calling the office in the morning. Thanks again for everything :D

[kharmaguru]

how do I check what they were supposed to be to begin with? I don't have individually labeled fuses, just the breakers, if they replaced an old one with an incorrect new one, I would have no way of knowing that without having some kind of prior info as to what should have been in there to begin with. I don't know how to measure what it should be at this point in order to recognize if an incorrect size was used when it was replaced.



In your first post you said "fuse box" so I thought the interior panel had the little glass screw in type fuses (these are the ones end users often swap for higher ratings) rather than breakers. The breakers are likely the originals although they all seem high but perhaps your electrical code is different there. Normal circuits here are 15 amps with high demand circuits being 20, 30 or 40. I've never seen a 50amp or higher circuit except on a hot tub...

[Paul B]

Unless you have a monster AC, as is 4-5 ton, which is doubtful in an apartment, the breaker is oversized.

The 100 amp breaker would be oversized if it were not for the electric stove which could draw 50 amps if the oven was on with the burners.
Without the stove that apartment could get away with a 60 amp service.

[Porcupinepuffer]

The breaker is toast. It could be a weak wire connection near the main breaker causing it to heat up. There's not a chance in hell your apartment and utilities mentioned are drawing near enough amps to trip that bad boy off. Also, the fact your MAIN breaker is tripping is a major cause for concern and safety. This needs to be serviced ASAP. Also, an electric stove is on the biggest breaker next to the a/c. But a stove only draws upwards of 30+ amps with All elements on top, the light, the grill, and lower burners all running... I an apartment you're probably looking at a 1-2 ton A/C (which is small). Not to mention you may have an electric water heater that is probably not big either.... 90% of good sized homes run a 100 amp service panel with no problems.

[James77]

I used to have an apartment with 60 amp service. The apartment had an electric stove, I ran 3 air conditioners, an electric dryer, a 175 gallon tank with halides, plus the typical lights and fans and microwave oven. I think I popped 3 fuses over the course of 5 years, the main 60 amp fuse never blew.

Like others have said, it is most likely a faulty main breaker. It is an easy fix for an electrician, and they would be able to find out if it was something more serious.

[hvacman250]

The 100 amp breaker would be oversized if it were not for the electric stove which could draw 50 amps if the oven was on with the burners.
Without the stove that apartment could get away with a 60 amp service.

You're reading my post wrong. I said the 50 amp was more than likely oversized for the AC unit. But, honestly, without being there, we are all just guessing. He stated the follwing:

breaker box in the closet is as follows

Left side in order top to bottom:

50 and its labeled Heat/AC

40 Labeled Range

30 Labeled Hot Water

Right Side top to bottom:

20
20
20
20

He said he didnt have gas heat. That leaves him either having a heat pump or straight AC w/ electric furnace. Where is the breaker for the furnace/air handler? Could the 50 amp be controlling the indoor unit and the outdoor unit is at a panel outside? Who knows.

Either way, I think you as a renter have a valid complaint with the apt complex.

[Paul B]

Also, the fact your MAIN breaker is tripping is a major cause for concern and safety.

This is definately true and very common.
Thats why I asked where the service entered the house. Many times rain water gets into the outside service and runs down to the main breaker, corroding the main lugs. Very common here on Long Island where many of the older service cables are just Romex without pipe.

But, honestly, without being there, we are all just guessing.

True, And wild guessing at that.

[mcgyvr]

I think you have a crab in the tank who is too cold because you have your AC on all the time so he jumps out of the tank and isn't tall enough to reach the door handle for the closet to flip that breaker but has managed to find a mouse hole that he can crawl into and get access to the main breaker.
or it could be aliens...
Or your boyfriend is playing a joke on you because you spend more time fiddling with the tank than playing with him.