Help With Copper Treatment

[rengnath]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here. Ive researched the forum for a while, but now I have a question regarding an ich treatment. Ive read all about ich and treatment on this forum, which is why I went with the copper treatment.

To start, my main setup:
60 Gallon Tank
Fluval 405 Canister Filter
Octopus BH2000 HOB Skimmer
250W Marineland Heater
Submariner 13 Watt UV

25lbs of Live Rock
40lbs of Black Beach Sand w/ 20lbs of Black Aragonite

Bahama General Starfish

(Rest of livestock currently in qt. Tank is being maintained and I drop food in the tank every day for the starfish and to keep the benificial bacteria alive. Tank has been running with no fish since 9/29)

The qt setup (For copper treatments only):
30 gallon tank
Fluval 205
150W Heater
Some ceramic stumps for hiding places
2 cups of crushed coral to maintain PH

1 powder blue tang
1 flame angel
1 pair of black ocellaris clowns


Now the info you need to know:
The main tank was set up in August. Fish were added with no qt and I noticed the blue tang flashing about a week later. (My mistake for getting too excited and not having patience to qt; Ill never do that again) I added ich-x to the tank after removing the star fish and some live rock. Tang appeared to be healthier for a couple days after. But, ich spots appeared a few days after treatment. Poly filter, skimmer and water changes used to remove medication from main tank. Star fish and live rock returned to tank. All fish were then moved to a 30 gallon tank which is now dedicated for copper treatment along with all of the equipment in it. I read about copper being the only true cure for Ich (other than with hypo) so thats what I chose to do. I picked up Cupramine and an API test kit and started dosing the qt very slowly. After 2 days, the API test kit was sitting at .3ppm. I took a sample to my lfs for a test with their tester. Its a test that requires a control sample and a sample mixed with a powder. Both are read and compared with an electronic device that uses light to measure the copper content. They came up with a number of 1.6ppm. (Very high, I know. My target was .5ppm) Water change done immediatly along with carbon and poly filter to remove some copper from the toxic level. No fish were showing signs of stress to mine and the fish store's suprise. Level remained above 1.0ppm for 2 weeks.

After 14 days was up, I did another water change and added 2 poly filter pads to the setup. I took a sample in and copper was down to .7 ppm. I wanted to get it to 0ppm to observe the fish before returning them to the main tank. On day 18 (copper was measured at .7 ppm) the tang showed spots on 2 side fins and a few spots on his forehead.

My question is; is this normal that ich appeared again with copper still that high? And it was after the 14 day treatment. The ich spots were visable for one day, and today they are gone. All filter media was removed to keep copper level at .7 ppm. All other fish are showing no signs of ich. Tang is back to normal breathing today with no flashing. Was this just one of the final stages of ich dropping off the fish, or does this prove the copper treatment I did ineffective? The person I always go to for advice at the fish store assured me that their tester is one of the most accurate (measures total content of copper in the water)and most liquid tests are inaccurate. I also bought a SeaChem which showed no copper with their control or what was in my water. I bought neither of them from the fish store. All their customers have them test water.

I know I overdosed with copper. It was my mistake, so I dont need any bashing on how bad of a fish keeper I am. I didnt try and remove all the copper from the system after the overdose because the fish werent showing signs of stress and I didnt want to risk dropping the level too low and making the treatment ineffective for ich. When dosing, I figured the decorations and the tank were absorbing the copper which is why I kept adding until the copper appeared to be .3ppm on the API. The crushed coral wasnt added until I started doing water changes to reduce the copper. Should I treat longer or start removing copper to see what happens? Please advise. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

[Chris27]

What copper test are they using? Chelated and ionic copper are tested differently, with different test kits, so the blanket statement about their kit being the best would have me a little concerned. Cupramine is tested as if it were true ionic copper, which is why Seachem recommends using their kit, you can also use Salifert and Red Sea. The API kit will read ionic copper, however the resolution isn't all that good when compared with other tests - the resolution can make all the difference when attempting to maintain copper at a constant therapeutic level.

My recommendation is to go get yourself a Red Sea kit (cheap, accurate, reliable) and dose either the paracure that comes with it (ionic copper) or continue with the cupramine for another 2-3 weeks. Measure the copper daily, and make adjustments as per the test results.

One other thing to note, remove the crushed coral, calcareous material will absorb copper, basically pulling it from the water column and rendering it useless against the parasite. It's a common misconception that it buffers pH, that only happens at a very low pH, not at the pH we like to keep our marine tanks.