Do I have too many carnivores?

[Lynnmw1208]

I came up with a rough stocking list and I went through to see what they will eat and I noticed the majority of the fish I picked are carnivores. Will I have an issue with this? here is my list. I'm up for suggestions and experiences as well.


Yellow Tang (herbivore)
Flame Angel (omnivore)
Yellow Watchman Goby
Randall's/Orange stripe prawn Goby
Tail Spot blenny (herb)
firefish
Royal Gramma
Green Mandarin
Filamented Flasher Wrasse
Yellow Jawfish
Ocellaris Clowns (2) (omn)
Red head solon fairy wrasse
Yellow coris Wrasse
Orangemarked goby (omn)
Longnose Butterfly
Maldives anthias (3)

[fatdaddy]

I'd work on a short list. IMHO, that is too many fish. I'd go with a 1/3.

Also I think the jawfish are jumpers. I figured that out when I found mine behind my aquarium dried out. Poor guys. I've heard that bird netting works good and it doesn't stop evaporation or light penetration (much).

[Lynnmw1208]

I'd work on a short list. IMHO, that is too many fish. I'd go with a 1/3.

Also I think the jawfish are jumpers. I figured that out when I found mine behind my aquarium dried out. Poor guys. I've heard that bird netting works good and it doesn't stop evaporation or light penetration (much).

is it really too many for a 125g? I don't plan on adding all at once.

[fatdaddy]

Green Mandarin


These are really difficult to keep because they only eat live food. Even if you have a good population of pods going, a Mandarin will easily wipe them out. So, you need refugium so you can constantly restock them. Even then, it's still hard with less then a 180g tank.

It's a sinking feeling when you know you are starving your fish. I'd keep that one off the list until you have an established and healthy tank.

[Stuart60611]

As a general comment, you really cannot have too many carnivores. In fact, the more fish you have with the same dietary needs the better because you will be able to feed more efficiently and effectively. The need for herbivores primarily revolves around the need to control nuisance algae. Aside from filtration and general husbandry practices, tackling nuisance algae issues with livestock additions can be achieved in two ways: (1) inverts (snails, crabs, etc.); and (2) fish. How much you want to control nusiance algae via livestock additions will depend on your filtration and husbandry practices, and whether you do so via fish, inverts or combination will depend how many and what types of inverts or fish you house.

I see you have a 125 which I also own. Assuming it is a standard 6 foot 125, I have some great fish suggestions. Get a kole or tomini tang and a one spot foxface, and you will have all the herbivore fish algae control power you could possibly need. These will work great in a 125 and work very effective together at keeping many different species of nusiance algae in check (probably the most effective combination of two fish for this purpose).

[fatdaddy]

is it really too many for a 125g? I don't plan on adding all at once.

I do, but let's see what others say.

Also, I'd leave room for an anemone, corals, etc. Many reef tanks have fish as almost an after thought. They are primarily devoted to corals, etc.

It's easier to acquire fish then get rid of them, so I'd stock a short list, give it a few months, and then go from there.

[Lynnmw1208]

These are really difficult to keep because they only eat live food. Even if you have a good population of pods going, a Mandarin will easily wipe them out. So, you need refugium so you can constantly restock them. Even then, it's still hard with less then a 180g tank.

It's a sinking feeling when you know you are starving your fish. I'd keep that one off the list until you have an established and healthy tank.

I do know that the mandarin needs pods and will have a fuge. I also plan on not adding him until the tank is at least 6 months of age or more. Thanks for the concern tho! :D the advice is good so far and thanks! any other suggestions? I'm thinking too many bottom dwellers? I was thinking of dropping off the yellow watchman and the randal's

[ctrl+f]

Those wrasses will be big competitors for the mandarin. That's a bigger issue than bottom-dweller territory.

[Matt Dean]

Itis a fairly full/heavy bioload for the tank, however, with good filtration (GFO,GAC, fuge, EXCELLENT skimmer - very important) you should be fine. I would suggest looking at who competes with whom for food. The wrasses will compete with the Mandarin for sure, but that doesn't mean you can't do it, you just need to make sure the tank is teeming with pods. Give the tank close to a year to establish a crazy pod population, then add the Mandarin, THEN add the wrasses. (you don't have to, just a suggestion) To be honest, I have 3 wrasses in my tank and plan on adding a Mandarin, but i will fork over the bucks for an aqua-cultured mandarin that is trained to eat prepared foods as well to supplement it's diet. (not replace, supplement)

If you are going to have a jawfish, as stated above, have the tank covered or it WILL jump. Also, you may find you have too many gobies. the jawfish and goby/pistol shrimp may have issues with each other as they can be territorial. Of course these are all just possibilites.

good luck and take it slow adding them and you should be fine.

[Matt Dean]

I was just looking at your skimmer. If you want a fully stocked tank - and don't we all :) - you really need a skimmer that can handle it. I don't think this is a high quality and therefore highly effective skimmer. - and I may be wrong, but hopefully someone with experience or first hand knowledge of this skimmer will chime in.

Honestly, i have a heavier bioload in my tank than you are proposing and my water is pristine and my SPS and all other corals are thriving, but I spent the bucks on a Bubble King 200 skimmer, run GFO, GAC, UV, refugium, great surface skimming and have crazy flow with no dead spots in my tank.

You need to have the gear that can handle the load. I know money is always a consideration, but consider all the livestock you may lose if your filtration is inadequate.

[Lynnmw1208]

I was just looking at your skimmer. If you want a fully stocked tank - and don't we all :) - you really need a skimmer that can handle it. I don't think this is a high quality and therefore highly effective skimmer. - and I may be wrong, but hopefully someone with experience or first hand knowledge of this skimmer will chime in.

Honestly, i have a heavier bioload in my tank than you are proposing and my water is pristine and my SPS and all other corals are thriving, but I spent the bucks on a Bubble King 200 skimmer, run GFO, GAC, UV, refugium, great surface skimming and have crazy flow with no dead spots in my tank.

You need to have the gear that can handle the load. I know money is always a consideration, but consider all the livestock you may lose if your filtration is inadequate.

Different people have different opinions about this skimmer. many swear by it, and I checked out the fan club thread on the forums and went off of that for my decision. if it doesn't appear to be doing a good job, I will definitely look into getting another one. they also have upgraded their models and they look totally different and actually look exactly like the higher end ones now.

do all the fairy wrasses compete for food with the mandarin? I love wrasses but I love mandarins more so I might have to take some of them off of there. I will have cheato in the sump to help with this and the porous pukani rock from BRS as well as live rock to seed it. I was also considering taking the randall's goby out. I won't be getting a pair with a shrimp anyway, but why risk it.

I am also planning on running carbon and GFO in a reactor from BRS. thanks for the suggestions tho! that is why I am asking so I try to keep the problems at bay :spin2: any other suggestions from anyone? remember this is a rough list and can be changed!

[chimmike]

too many gobies. the jawfish and the gobies will likely fight in a tank that size.

[Lynnmw1208]

too many gobies. the jawfish and the gobies will likely fight in a tank that size.

This is what I was afraid of. Anyone else think this will happen?

[scubasteve06]

yes the gobies and jawfish will not get along since they are territorial. I also waited 9 months from starting my tank to add my mandarin and red scooter dragonet. If I take a look in my fuge it looks like it is literally moving teeming with pods. I also implemented a DSB in my 'fuge' area and LR rubble for more pod hiding and more importantly breeding places. The mandarins and scooter dragonets don't really eat the bigger pods. They eat their offspring that the bigger ones produce. Wrasse and other bigger fish like dottybacks, tangs, gobies, etc. eat the bigger pods. So make sure you have a bunch of the bigger pods so that they can keep populating the tank with the smaller 'baby' pods that the dragonets like. I'm not saying that a dragonet won't eat the bigger ones, they just hunt for the smaller ones usually. It would also depend on the size of the dragonet.

[Sk8r]

re mandys: I keep a fat pod-only mandy and a scooter in a 55g. The deal is---I have 20 gallons of fuge packed with sand, live rock, and cheato, which farms abundant food for both, plus for the corals.
Your fish list doesn't sound too bad, but I'd raise a flag on the butterfly (fragile, and coral nippers), the wrasses (pugnacious and prone to bully and sometimes kill some other species, particularly gobies) and the clowns---bullies and take quite a lot of your tank, though the most personable of the bad boys. The gramma can also be a bully, but not so bad as wrasses...which, btw, are incredibly difficult to catch.
My advice would be to get that fuge going, and get your qt going, and add one or 2 fish per go, prioritizing re hardiest and most desired first, down to the not so hardy and ones you can live without. Always envision the adult size of the fish when looking at your tank for an estimate of room-left, and stop before you get to the end of your list.

[Lynnmw1208]

re mandys: I keep a fat pod-only mandy and a scooter in a 55g. The deal is---I have 20 gallons of fuge packed with sand, live rock, and cheato, which farms abundant food for both, plus for the corals.
Your fish list doesn't sound too bad, but I'd raise a flag on the butterfly (fragile, and coral nippers), the wrasses (pugnacious and prone to bully and sometimes kill some other species, particularly gobies) and the clowns---bullies and take quite a lot of your tank, though the most personable of the bad boys. The gramma can also be a bully, but not so bad as wrasses...which, btw, are incredibly difficult to catch.
My advice would be to get that fuge going, and get your qt going, and add one or 2 fish per go, prioritizing re hardiest and most desired first, down to the not so hardy and ones you can live without. Always envision the adult size of the fish when looking at your tank for an estimate of room-left, and stop before you get to the end of your list.

very good points thank you! everyone is raising very good concerns and I will definitely take your advice. I am scratching for good the watchman and prawn goby. I think the blenny and the sandsifting goby will be ok with the jawfish if I add mr jawfish first.
as for the butterfly I thought the flame was the best with corals and more hardy than others? I plan on keeping mainly softies and LPS corals so I'm not too concerned with nipping. (he can nip at the GSP any day lol).
how much of a bully can the gramma be? I was thinking of adding that one next to last with the yellow tang. the gramma was my husband's choice as he originally wanted the purple dottyback and i said no lol (i know how aggressive those are!)
the first fish I will add (when I get to that pt) will be the 2 occellaris clowns. the wrasses I picked I thought were on the peaceful side rather than how the 6-line acts.

[Matt Dean]

If the Flame Angel or Longnose butterfly are going to pick on anything, it will be LPS. Acans, brains, anything fleshy will be tempting to them. I tried Heniochus, but my acans were all but destroyed and zoas were not happy. Almost immediately after I took them back, all the corals came back to life. just a thought.

[Lynnmw1208]

If the Flame Angel or Longnose butterfly are going to pick on anything, it will be LPS. Acans, brains, anything fleshy will be tempting to them. I tried Heniochus, but my acans were all but destroyed and zoas were not happy. Almost immediately after I took them back, all the corals came back to life. just a thought.

Is there any angel that is better with corals? I think it's a gamble with any of them isn't it? I heard this one was usually pretty good with them. I guess I'll have to watch to be sure it doesn't get out of hand. someone told me the longnose was the best to have with corals as well. i hope this is the case.

[Matt Dean]

Japanese Swallowtail or Bellus Angel (my choice) are zooplanlton eaters, so they would be fine. No worries. I had a couple of threads asking about angels. these are the two that came up every time. The bellus Female is pretty. I didn't like the male.

The longnose is better than other Butterfly fish, but it's still a gamble. Cool fish, though.

Neither are as nice as the Flame angel. it seems the prettier the fish, the worse it is for your corals :)

[aleonn]

Just wanted to say, take lots of pix of your setup. I'm looking at your stocking list and wishing I had a few. I'm excited how it'll turn out!

[Lynnmw1208]

Just wanted to say, take lots of pix of your setup. I'm looking at your stocking list and wishing I had a few. I'm excited how it'll turn out!

I definitely will! I'm a long ways out yet though. Still gotta drill the tank and order overflow, plumb, order rocks, order sand, yadda yadda. I'm itching to get some water in the tank but first things first :spin2: I definitely want to take things slow on the cycling and fish aspect tho!

Thanks for the fish suggestions Matt! I'll have to take a look at those