Return pump to big for tank?

[aquaman05]

Ok im having a problem with my tank. My cycle is all done and im ready to start putting some fish and corals in but im struggling with a few things. It seems that im losing alot of water a day so i have been toping off with ro water and then when i do a salinity test it seems to be dropping down to much and i have to add salt in the tank to get it back up.

I will back up alittle here. When i first put the water in and started running my tank and sump/fuge the return pump would pump the water back into the DT to fast and pump dry,so i cut a tee in and sent some water back to the sump. This helped but it seems like i have to put almost 2 qts of water a day in for top off which is making my salinity go way down.

The way i have the water flowing from my return pump its putting more water back into the sump than into the DT. Should this be the opposite ????

DO i have the water not set right and making me think im losing water when im not so i am topping off and making my salinity go down?????

Im thinking my return pump is to much since i cant send enough to the DT without it pumping the return section dry?

My tank is a 75 gal with a 20 gal long sump fuge and my return pump is a eheim1260. I have a gl*******s 1 1/2 overflow. Tank is drilled 3/4 return with the 1 1/2 drain.

Am i just looking right past my problem here or is my pump to many gph for this setup.

Thanks for looking

[Daimyo68]

It's obvious that your return pump is returning more water than is being supplied to it. You need to install a Ball Valve right after you return pump. You can then "throttle back" the amount of water going back into the tank to match the amount that is draining out.

As for you "losing" water, it is evaporating. You will need to top it off every day either by hand, or install an ATO (Auto Top Off) system. The ATO is the easiet of course and has the least amount of impact on your SG.

[eric mac]

It just sounds like u never filled ur tank up all the way. I suggest u turn ur pump all the water to ur tank then keep filling ur sump tell it's full. That's if u don't have a leak. And when ur tank and sump are filled up right then fix ur salinity.

Just one question. When u run ur return full power to ur tank does ur overflow box back up and over fill. If that happens then ur pump is to big.

[aquaman05]

It just sounds like u never filled ur tank up all the way. I suggest u turn ur pump all the water to ur tank then keep filling ur sump tell it's full. That's if u don't have a leak. And when ur tank and sump are filled up right then fix ur salinity.

Just one question. When u run ur return full power to ur tank does ur overflow box back up and over fill. If that happens then ur pump is to big.

My water level is so when i lose power it stops about 1 inch from overflowing the sump which i though was what i was suppose to do to keep from floods.

I do have ball valves in the return line going to the DT and the line going back to the sump and have throttled back.

When i run the return pump full blast to DT the overflow dont overflow but the return section in the sump goes dry real fast.

[Daimyo68]

Your return line isn't clogged is it? Your going to have to throttle the pump back until you get it balanced out.

You say when you run the pump full blast that your overflow doen't work. If thats the case you have a major leak and should see water all over the floor because it will be running out the top of the tank.

[sasharotty]

As stated install a valve on the return to throttle back your pump to match the overflow.As far as your s.g going down when water evaporates doesnt make sense it should go up because the salt stays as water evaporates.What are you using to measure s.g??

Edit-----just saw your last post??? Can you post a pic of the plumbing at your pump and sump??

[scubasteve06]

I'd install a gate or ball valve after the return and just throttle it back until you get it balanced. It will take some playing with and some time, I think you are making this harder than it really is. If your drain is only draining X amount then dial the return pump to return that X amount. Problem solved, at least the balance between sump, and DT problem. The evaporation is normal, and you'll just have to watch it, best thing to do is to make a mark on your sump where you want the water level to be. When it drops below that line manually fill it back up with fresh RO water, or install a ATO with a float switch that keeps it at the 'line' you have made.

[aquaman05]

Your return line isn't clogged is it? Your going to have to throttle the pump back until you get it balanced out.

You say when you run the pump full blast that your overflow doen't work. If thats the case you have a major leak and should see water all over the floor because it will be running out the top of the tank.

i dont think its clogged.

No my overflow does work and it dont overflow like it cant keep up.

I can throttle the valves back and even everything out but when i do this i have more flow going back into the sump than going to the DT. Its like im just running the water from the return section of my sump back to the skimmer section and very little back up to the tank.

something just dont seem right

[aquaman05]

As stated install a valve on the return to throttle back your pump to match the overflow.As far as your s.g going down when water evaporates doesnt make sense it should go up because the salt stays as water evaporates.What are you using to measure s.g??

Edit-----just saw your last post??? Can you post a pic of the plumbing at your pump and sump??

Yeah your right the salinty dont make sense. I have a 37 gallon now so i know how the whole evaporation trick works but this is got me.

I Have a iphone and pics but i dont know how to post them. any idea...lol

[scubasteve06]

When we say throttle the valves back that doesn't mean all the way back that means to throttle it back enough to where the return pump is pushing the same GPH back into the tank that the overflow is draining into the tank. It will take a lot of time, trial and error of turning the valve back and forth a tiny bit at a time until it gets balanced out. You might be making too big of an adjustment and not giving it enough time to balance out. Now if it looks like the sump is going to overflow or run dry after a little turn of the ball valve then of course fix the problem back the other way and keep trying to get it balanced out.

[Sk8r]

Cut the 'up' line and install a valve, then adjust it. Use metal hose clamps only OUTside the water system. And only plastic valves. If I let my main pump run the jet would clear the tank and hit the living room windows. You don't always get an exact match between tank and pump. Mine is worse than most.

[Daimyo68]

Ok:

1. Close all ball valves
2. Open just the return ball valve, half way
3. Turn on the pump
4. Get the return pump and drain to run evenly by opening or closing the ball valve a little at a time.

once you do that, then slowly open the ball valve for the pump, a little more, and now open the ball valve (a little at a time) supplying your fuge.

As mentioned, it takes a little bit of playing with them to get them running properly.

Another question, how many feet from the pump up to where the 3/4" returns go into the tank? If the height (head) is too great, your pump may not be enough.

[aquaman05]

yeah i got that part steve,i can get it to even out but at that point im puting to much water back into the sump to make the return section not pump out to fast.

This pump has to be to big. i know it seems easy here but i am doing all the obvious and it still pumps the water back to fast

[cpl40475]

I had a 75 gallon with a 20 gallon fuge and ran a 1600GPH pump (dont remember the name of pump) and I had no problem at all with a dry sump. Sounds more like to me you have some kind of restriction in your drain lines or you have way too much head pressure on the pump.

[scubasteve06]

If your putting to much water into the sump then its not evened out. If this is the case then the return is throttled back to much. A big pump can be made as small as it needs to be with a valve....

[aquaman05]

Ok:

1. Close all ball valves
2. Open just the return ball valve, half way
3. Turn on the pump
4. Get the return pump and drain to run evenly by opening or closing the ball valve a little at a time.

once you do that, then slowly open the ball valve for the pump, a little more, and now open the ball valve (a little at a time) supplying your fuge.

As mentioned, it takes a little bit of playing with them to get them running properly.

Another question, how many feet from the pump up to where the 3/4" returns go into the tank? If the height (head) is too great, your pump may not be enough.


Only 1 return line going to DT and its only about 3 ft.
Ill brb gonna try what you said but i done that to start with but never hurts to try again

[Daimyo68]

puting to much water back into the sump to make the return section not pump out to fast

If thats the case, then it is not adjusted properly. Go back to the start, and begin again.

There's no way that it can be adjusted properly. You could take a pump the returns 1500gph, throttle it back and adjust it so that neither the sump or tank overtake each other.

[Sk8r]

Let's be clear: the return pump is IN the sump, delivering water up top to the tank, and the tank downflow is not running fast enough to supply the sump: the valve is intervening between the sump/return pump and the display tank. If you partially close that valve, restricting the amount of water the return pump is sending up to the DT, it SHOULD slow everything down, because the downflow is not getting as much water as fast as it used to.

[scubasteve06]

Good question sk8tr I don't think any of us actually took the time to spell it out and make sure we were all on the same page here...:thumbsup:

[ahud]

Sounds like your are directing too much flow back into your sump, it may be easier to just cut off the supply to your fuge and try to get the return and drain equal. Afterwards you can play around with the line feeding your fuge.

[aquaman05]

could i possibly have my return box to high??
I would think as long as it had a place to drain this should'nt be my problem.

I started over and shutoff both valves and just turned on the one going back up to the DT i had to shut this valve off almost 100% because it was pumping all the water out and going dry. The water was not flowing hardly at all from the drain overflow.overflow to high?
Ill try to figure out how to post some pics from my iphone.


When i purchased everything i talked to the guys from g l a s s h o l e s this is the setup they told me to run with so this has to work

thanks

[scubasteve06]

what is a return box? do you mean an overflow box?

[aquaman05]

what is a return box? do you mean an overflow box?

yes...sorry about that

[scubasteve06]

Ok just making sure we didn't have things mixed up here and giving you wrong advice that's all:) I think you just need to keep playing with it. When I change my water in my tank I and I shut off my return pump I have to play with it for a day or two with minute adjustments till I get it just right where I like it and the sump level stays where I want it.

[aquaman05]

Pics<a href="http://s1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/?action=view&current=e4901a29.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/e4901a29.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

[scubasteve06]

JFYI the higher the water level is on the teeth of your overflow the more it will flow from what I have found with my HOB overflow the higher the water level is on the box where the teeth are the more it can flow. JMHO.

[aquaman05]

<a href="http://s1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/?action=view&current=4f80c504.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/4f80c504.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>
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[aquaman05]

<a href="http://s1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/?action=view&current=7b034354.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/gregbuzzsteve/7b034354.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

a few pics. This is the return inside tank

[scubasteve06]

From what I can see there is no ball valve on the actual 'return' line not the line that tees off into your fuge. If there is no ball valve right after the return pump then you have no way to control the flow coming out of but by the amount of flow that you send into your fuge and you don't want that much flow going to the fuge. Take some better pics if I am wrong, but I can only see one ball valve under your stand.

[aquaman05]

The other valve is behind the tank about 3 inches or so from the bulk head fitting?
Is it possible that my return section is to small and the pump empties it out to fast?

[lordofthereef]

I would say i's possible. How much water do you have sitting above the return pump. From the pic it looks like an inch or two, although that angle can be deceiving, which is why I ask.

[Vannpytt]

The overflow is too high up in the DT, so you would need more water in there to overflow into the drain (I understand from pictures and text you don't have a standpipe). This or the drain from the overflow is too high considering waterlevel.

[aquaman05]

The overflow is too high up in the DT, so you would need more water in there to overflow into the drain (I understand from pictures and text you don't have a standpipe). This or the drain from the overflow is too high considering waterlevel.

This is kinda what I was thinking last night, my overflow box might be to high.
Water will seek it's own level but it's only up about a inch on the teeth.

What do you mean by a stand pipe?

Lordofthereef I want the water level higher but seems like it stays about 2 inches above pump

[scubasteve06]

I couldn't tell if you had a second valve but since you do I'd say it has to be the drain that is not draining enough because your overflow box is up to high. I'd try either taking a dremel to the overflow teeth and lower them and or widen them to increase the flow. Like I told you last night about my overflow box the more it is submerged the more water can flow because of the weight of the water pushing down on it. This is why predrilled tanks that have full top to bottom overflows are better because they have the weight of all that tank water pushing down on them to create the actual flow numbers that you are seeking with whatever size bulkhead you are using.

[aquaman05]

I got it.... Thanks to all who helped

[steamman]

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/steamman05/image001.gif?t=1287781197

[aquaman05]

Thanks for the post steamman.
That's how I had it to start with