Plumbing

[Mike P]

I'm currently building a 180 Gal RR setup and having never plumbed anything at all, I was hoping to get some more ideas I may have missed. After reading a ton, this is what I have come up with so far. Is there anything I am missing that could benefit me later? Anything anyone would change etc.?

[nemosworld]

looks good! what size drains are you using? 1.5"? with 1 inch returns?

[lordofthereef]

With the way you have it set up right now, you will be getting a crap ton of flow through the fuge. Basically you are getting the full sump turnover hrough the fuge and on top of that you are adding more with the T off your return. I would swap the fuge and the retun positions. This way the fuge is fed as little or as much as you set your valve on the return.

I also wouldn't waste my time/money/energy on the check valve. Make sure you have proper anti-siphon holes. The check valve can/will fail ONLY when you need it not to!

[Mike P]

looks good! what size drains are you using? 1.5"? with 1 inch returns?

Exactly

[Mike P]

With the way you have it set up right now, you will be getting a crap ton of flow through the fuge. Basically you are getting the full sump turnover hrough the fuge and on top of that you are adding more with the T off your return. I would swap the fuge and the retun positions. This way the fuge is fed as little or as much as you set your valve on the return.

I thought about this, but my return section is only about 7" wide, and my fuge section is about 12". Could I get away with a 7" fuge on the end? or should I just keep the sump set up the way it is and T it back to the return section on the end so my pump doesn't feel a restriction if it ends up being too strong? (Therefore just letting the flow from the skimmer compartment give the fuge its only flow)

[Mike P]

Anyone else have good tips on this? I'm totally lost and my sump can't change unless I build another :(

[RocketSurgeon]

You do not want to rely on a check valve. From my understanding they are useless and you should plan an alternative method.

I put a lot of trust in what BeanAnimal and Uncleof6 say.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1916205&highlight=sump

I would seek out their threads and posts when it comes to sumps and overflows. Perhaps you could even PM them.

[Mike P]

Yeah, I never really thought of it that way (the check valve). I do already have the siphon holes.

[Palting]

I would remove the T from the return. Creating that T to "unload" the pump rather than just throttling it back may give you more trouble. Alternately, you can leave that gate valv on that T closed, then use it later for reactors.

I agree on removing the check valves. Future source of trouble. Use anti siphon holes on your return instead.

EDIT: I'm a slow typist. Sorry, I didn't see you already addressed the check valve thing.

[Reverend Reefer]

you might as well setup an auto-top off system or at least plan for one into your sump. when i finally decided to make a sump, i also set up an auto-top off into the return section with a float switch and an automated two part dosing system.

an auto-top off system will help with evaporation. after all this planning it would have been a shame if i didn't setup the auto-top off and two part dosing integrated into my sump set up. i even took the plunge and set up the auto-top off with kalkwasser. the cost was next to nothing for the auto-top off and i automated my two part dosing as well. the most expensive piece of equipment was the dosing pumps.

the one thing i didn't do when i was setting up my sump was a quick method for performing water changes. if i had done all 3 (automated top off, automated dosing, and quick water change design), i would have been setup for less headache in the future.

just some things to think about.

[Reverend Reefer]

one last thing about your diagram. i hope the "walls" that divide them have "teeth." especially the last one from the fuge to the return, otherwise you might have a lot of macroalgae getting stuck in your return pump.

i also hope the "walls" go lower slightly between the sections. i'm not the best person to comment on the flow in this respect but my girlfriend explained to me that if the "walls" don't descend from section to section, the flow won't happen properly. she explained to me that i need to think of a "waterfall" and if the different sections were level (on the same plane?) you won't get the water to fall. not sure if you will have that problem but i think you do with that diagram. i guess a quick fix would just be to lower the last "wall". the lowest level that will fluctuate as evaporation occurs is in the lowest section of your sump, i.e., the return section.

i dunno. maybe ask around, someone else might have some insight into this but if you look at most designs, you might notice the difference in "wall" height between the sump sections. check melev's sump designs on his website too. he has a couple designs.

[Mike P]

Nice, thanks for the tips! Yes, the one wall does have teeth, and I'm not sure if the baffles get lower. The person that is helping me build the one I have has been doing it for quite a while though, and is pretty professional about it. I'd imagine they would be. I'll have to ask him when I talk to him next. I can definitely see how that would be important.

[Reverend Reefer]

Nice, thanks for the tips! Yes, the one wall does have teeth, and I'm not sure if the baffles get lower. The person that is helping me build the one I have has been doing it for quite a while though, and is pretty professional about it. I'd imagine they would be. I'll have to ask him when I talk to him next. I can definitely see how that would be important.

oh good. i went to take a quick look at some sump designs and i think maybe i have it wrong, its the wall between the skimmer section that seems to need to be the tallest i think. anyways yeah, also ask him if there's room to put an auto top off system in the future (i.e., room for a float valve/float switch) and auto dosing, especially if he's making a cover for the sump. also ask him if he has the sump drilled somewhere so that water changes can be made easier if need be in the future.

i also remembered another thing to consider is what skimmer will you be using and to just make sure the skimmer you decide on will fit into your sump. putting a skimmer into your sump is not a simple plug and play thing, as i found out later. seems different skimmers need different heights (in terms of water level) so you might need to prop up your skimmer on some stand of some sort inside the sump for it to work properly. in which case, it might be difficult to access the collection cup, depending on how much height room you have above your sump.

i'm not trying to overwhelm you, its just that i set up a sump just recently and these are some of the problems i encountered. better that someone benefits from my mistakes!

[RocketSurgeon]

i'm not trying to overwhelm you, its just that i set up a sump just recently and these are some of the problems i encountered. better that someone benefits from my mistakes!

+1

Especially if you are paying good money to have one fabricated, think about all your avenues. I know I'm on my 3rd sump already, and it is still not exactly like I want. there is always room for growth and improvement!

[Mike P]

yeah, exactly what I'm afraid of. My skimmer will fit inside of it. I made sure the sump was made around my skimmer and pump.

There are no holes drilled in it, I'll have to figure all of that out. I'm sure eventually I'll learn a ton more as I go. As long as there isn't gallons of water on my floor I'll be happy. So much to learn and figure out, so little time.

I think its time to start learning how to DIY sumps.

[uncleof6]

I'm currently building a 180 Gal RR setup and having never plumbed anything at all, I was hoping to get some more ideas I may have missed. After reading a ton, this is what I have come up with so far. Is there anything I am missing that could benefit me later? Anything anyone would change etc.?


So sorry you did not read enough ;) other wise your return section would be in the middle of the sump. And to be quite honest, the sump is too small for a 180 tank. You need an 18 gallon fuge for it to be much value to your system, room for your skimmer (with just a little wiggle room,) and enough room in your return compartment to allow the system to run for a few days, without running the pump dry-- with or without an ATO. (ATOs do fail) Some think something is better than nothing, but not at the cost of shoe horning your return pump.

Something in the 48" long x 15" - 18" wide range would be excellent for a 180. Spilt milk, at this point, as the thing is already built. If it is already close to those dims, ignore this, although it could have been designed a bit differently.

However, there is no good going to come from the sand in the "fuge" as a remote DSB should be run with no other life in it save bacteria, (it is separated from the main food chain of the system) and you already have macro in there. An RDSB is a method unto itself, and should be separated from the main sump. With the sump design you have, there is no point to diverting water from the return back to the "fuge" as you need the flow up to the tank. The drains won't handle it, of course, but there are solutions-- see below. You already have 100% percent of your water flowing through the "fuge," which is unnecessary, and you certainly don't need 130% running through it ;) The sump will work as designed, no question about that. But I would keep a very careful eye on your return section and ATO, there is not much margin from error.

Your plumbing needs some work to handle the flow rate you are expecting (with the mag 18) without problems. First the return plumbing should be 1.5" (per Danner) and a single over the back return will perform better than the split 1" return plumbing would ever dream: far less friction loss.

At flow rates above ~700 gph, dual durso type (air/water) standpipes are not going to handle the flow without bubbles, noise and unreliability-- toilet flushing etc. There are band aid solutions, but they really do not perform as advertised-- I have tried most of them.

There are solutions to the "reef not-so-ready" tanks with dual corner overflows, but this should probably be taken to the DIY forum, where it probably should have started. :)

Suggested reading:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Uncluttered version:

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Jim