Tank Size: what to choose. FYI

[Sk8r]

When picking a tank, you're balancing budget, ambitions, and floor space. But some of the hidden costs aren't obvious, we're not as upfront as we ought to be about limitations of tanks; and even floor space isn't as obvious as you'd think.
1. Floor space: you should not site a tank in range of sunbeams from a window. You need to have a LEVEL stretch of floor; and the weight of a very large tank may mean you need to be near a load-bearing wall. You may also, if you are fortunate enough to have a basement under your living room, be thinking about a basement sump, ie, sending 2 hoses through your floor to the sump, pump, fuge, area. This is nice if you can do it. But I don't advise it until you're dead certain this hobby is for you. Think about it. You may also consider an in-wall arrangement. Again, think about it and be sure. One item I personally strongly advise, is a sump. It adds volume to your tank, it gets the messy gear out of sight, it's a place to add chemicals without pouring them on your fish, and it's a place to have a fuge (a green planted area which improves tank health, reduces algae, and feeds your specimens). Corner tanks notoriously are bad on room in the stand: ie, they don't make corner sumps, and you'd better put it IN the stand before you put your tank on top. Even so, getting at things (including the fish that hopped into the corner overflow) is a pita. I speak as the owner of a corner tank; and I still love it.

2. ambitions: you want a reef? Budget for better lighting, for a sump, for a skimmer, and ideally for a fuge. You want fish only? All the above are still a good idea, and you may need additional filtration, which you will have to clean. MOST OF ALL: the ocean is not easily duplicated in a 3 foot long tank. You cannot keep all fish in any tank. IF YOU WANT BIG FISH and fast-swimming fish like tangs, angels, damsels, etc, get a big tank, ie, over 100 g, upward. If you want a 50 g tank, consider blennies, gobies, etc, or a specialty tank like seahorses, clams, clowns with anemone (they'll take the whole tank, and would prefer 100g) or the like.

3. budget. It's not just the tank. You need a stand. You need glass thick enough not to crack under an impact. You need lighting adequate to reach deep enough and far enough to reach corals with enough strength, but NOT stronger than the corals need: this is a choice you have to make at set-up. You need 1 lb of live rock per gallon OR (better for the planet) some live rock with base rock you can wait 8 weeks instead of 4 to see cycle. Believe me, it's worth it. You don't need any filtration for a reef: corals are filters; you may for fish-only, if you have messy fish that eat their cleanup crews. But a skimmer is a good idea; a skimmer rated for 2x your water volume is a very good idea; and a sump will be a great investment if you plan to stay with this hobby. How big a sump? A 20 gallon fuge in the middle of it will handle quite a lot.

This isn't the be-all and end-all, but it's something to think about at the start of your planning, not after you've bought and are trying to fit your ambitions into your floor space. Especially think about the tank size and what you want to keep: big fish need room to run, and the 2" fish you bought may easily top out at 10" in not very long at all.

Discuss. Ask. Help out with answers.

[isildursbane]

Great post! Thanks again, Sk8r.

[Reverend Reefer]

another thing to consider is height. i have a 24" tall tank and i'm not the tallest person in the world, so reaching to the very bottom means i need a step stool to access it and sometimes my armpit gets a lil wet. i don't mind getting wet, its just that deodorant is really bad for your tank's water so i sometimes need, a step stool, long aquagloves, and even a tool to fiddle around and grab things with. in addition to this problem, i also need to somewhat consider whether the light is penetrating all the way down to corals sitting on the sand bed. just something to consider.

i've seen a lot of shallow tanks out there, especially in reef shops, and i see their benefits. i love my tank's height as it makes an impressive display for 65G but i sometimes wish it was just a tiny bit less tall while doing maintenance.

[Lynnmw1208]

another thing to consider is height. i have a 24" tall tank and i'm not the tallest person in the world, so reaching to the very bottom means i need a step stool to access it and sometimes my armpit gets a lil wet. i don't mind getting wet, its just that deodorant is really bad for your tank's water so i sometimes need, a step stool, long aquagloves, and even a tool to fiddle around and grab things with. in addition to this problem, i also need to somewhat consider whether the light is penetrating all the way down to corals sitting on the sand bed. just something to consider.

i've seen a lot of shallow tanks out there, especially in reef shops, and i see their benefits. i love my tank's height as it makes an impressive display for 65G but i sometimes wish it was just a tiny bit less tall while doing maintenance.

I 2nd this one! I used to have a tall hex tank and I HATED cleaning it (it was FW) It wasn't cleaned for 3 months at a time because I just didn't want to do it. I'd recommend considering this when buying a tank as well. this is why I opted for the 125g as it is shallower than 150g and above so I don't have to go swimming while arranging things or cleaning. Although who wouldn't love a bigger tank? lol

another thing you gotta think of is the bigger the tank the more expenses. I may have gotten a free tank and stand but all the equipment isn't free. a bigger tank needs a bigger skimmer, longer light fixture, more heaters etc etc. So the cost is more. I am still set on getting everything I need for my tank but I have to take it really SLOW because of money concerns lol.

great post tho! keep the opinions coming! :fish1:

[Stuart60611]

Perhaps the single best advice I can give here is to make all of these considerations and others before you make a single purchase. Before making a single purchase, you should know all livestock you plan to keep, the size tank you wish to keep them, where and how (stand) you will display your tank in your house, how you will have your sump generally set up (under the tank, in a separate fish room. etc.), what equipment and other items you will use to filter and light the tank (skimmer, lights, circulation, controller/timers, refugium, quarantine facilities, fish supplies storage, etc.), how you will go about making r/0 water/mixing saltwater and conducting water changes, and the cost of purchasing all of these items as well monthly maintenance costs (electricity, bulbs, salt, food, r/o filters, carbon, etc).

It is my opinion that if you go through the effort of answering all of the above then many common problems can be avoided. What I find is that many problems which occur with new systems result from changes made along the way to livestock choices (or commonly without even properly considering what livestock one wants to keep), and the attempts then made to keep the newly chosen livestock in a system which was never set up appropriately. For example, the never ending posts from people here who buy a 48 inch long tank and then discover that they want to keep tangs and should have purchased a 60 or 72 inch long tank.

The saying "pre-planing prevents **** poor performance" has great applicability to achieving success in this hobby.

[Sk8r]

Might I add: white vinegar can turn a used tank into a handsome nearly-new tank, and used equipment can get you more bang for your buck. It is usually 'used' because somebody under-bought, changed his mind, or just wants to upgrade. Caution: be careful about your sources...ie, converting a tank once used for freshwater, if copper was ever used for medication, is not good; copper is lethal to a marine tank. Ditto gear.

Yes, there is a restriction on the RC sale forum: you must have 50 MEANINGFUL, SANE, AND HELPFUL posts under your belt before the horns will blow, the heavens will part, and the Sale Forum will pop into view....[don't even think about padding a post count: it is not conducive to long life].... BUT SURELY, my new-reefer friends, you can think of 50 sane and helpful questions to ask or remarks to make while you read the sticky posts at the very top of this forum, which will suggest even more useful questions. Use your time in the newbie forum wisely, help others who are newer than you are, and the gates to used-dom will open.
Why does RC not allow absolute newcomers to post or read there? Because some people abused that area, to the harm of people trying to buy reliable equipment. So we are saving it for after you have proved yourself useful and helpful to others.
Feel free to ask about equipment, beforehand. We'll name brands. We'll recommend lighting. We're bursting with information and know how...(want to know how to catch a fish in a corner tank overflow? use a mirror plus your net.)...and we really want to help. Should you wonder, those of us older reefers who volunteer in here are just that: volunteers, who could be off posting elsewhere. But we enjoy helping. We hate it when somebody's bought the wrong tank or skimmer. We hate it when somebody's lost a fish. Even a snail. We hate it when somebody's let a salesman talk him into a bad and expensive deal (there is no deal so hot you cannot come here with the exact specs and get an opinion and get back to it.)
DO NOT BE SHY about asking. It can save you literally hundreds of dollars, which is a Good Thing.
HTH.

[Llamaslayer]

thanks a lot for these writeups. i have my basic builod planned and just need to plan my soft coral livestock a bit better to fit my 6 gallon nano

[TVenters]

Sk8r, when you say not to set a tank in range of sunbeams from a window, do you mean direct sunbeams? And why not? I've heard of some lighting systems that use daylight, so I don't really understand why a tank getting daylight would necessarily be bad.

[cornraker]

Sk8r, when you say not to set a tank in range of sunbeams from a window, do you mean direct sunbeams? And why not? I've heard of some lighting systems that use daylight, so I don't really understand why a tank getting daylight would necessarily be bad.

Excessive algae growth and possible tank overheating

[Sk8r]

Indirect sunlight can encourage cyanobacteria: of course, so can looking at a tank crosseyed: the stuff had its heyday during the atmospheric collapse of the Permian Extinction event, when what got through the atmosphere from the sun was weird lighting. I have one 4 inch patch in my tank that gets the sun in odd seasons, and sure enough---cyano pops up there, and goes away when the sun moves. Algae growth is hard enough to control, on the algae front.
But there are several strikes against it besides cyano and algae. You will already have an over-heating problem in most tanks and don't need more heat input; plus the corals never look as good in plain light. And lastly, if you find out you don't like it or have a problem, moving a tank or shuttering out the light is a pita. I'd be interested in hearing the experience of those who have used natural light, as from a skylight, etc; but I wouldn't advise it for a new hobbyist unless you're game for an adventure.

[ahud]

I know of a store that has a 180g SPS tank in direct sunlight, he said the corals facing the sun actually grow better? I think the tank has been running for two years.

[Sk8r]

They may actually and truly grow better under expert care---and that's the problem. I'm wondering what he's doing to keep the algae down, mangroves or the like, or what sort of a system he's running. If you're years experienced and are able to head off that problem, it can, I'm sure, be good. There are all sorts of methods that a shop-owner with big equipment and a lot of expertise can bring to bear, things like mangrove tanks, vodka dosing, etc, all of which does something for phosphate elimination [ergo killing the algae off]. This being the newbie forum, I'm still going to say don't try this at home. When you get to where you have the experience, the chemistry know-how, etc, it might work for you. I know I don't have the patience or spare time to get into the vodka thing with my own tank: these are techniques which require a lot of testing, logging, a schedule, and an organized life with backup people to step in if you're called out of town. Oh, there are so many levels you can get into in this hobby---but for right now, I want to recommend only those situations that are going to turn out well for you while you're learning and making a few new-to-the-hobby mistakes on your way to expert level. The only 'advanced technique' I personally recommend to new hobbyists is kalk for stony coral keepers, which is easy and more of an automation than a cranky technique, and pretty forgiving. So, no, no windows yet. Be expert first.

OTOH, you can have crazy coral growth with tank lighting, too.

[TVenters]

Ahhh...I see. Hrm looks like I need to build the entertainment stand before my tank then. While I'm pretty confident in my lessening abilities and my research skills, I don’t want to push it to far on my first tank lol. I'm gonna guess algae in a big tank can be more of a pita than it is in a small one?

[PaulieReef]

Very nice post! Great info. The whole drilling under the floor scares me. I like my sump in my stand.. limits what I can put in my stand but its right there!

[HKAVR45]

Others in this thread have mentioned tank height & length as something to consider when buying a tank, but in my experience the most important dimension has been width. I have had 15g, 29g, and 55g saltwater setups, and the widths of these tanks (10-12")inparticular have made aqua-scaping much more difficult, especially for the beginner. If you're looking for something on the smaller side, the breeder or cube tanks are manageable and offer great depth from front to back. Larger tanks such as the 120 and 180 offer 2' widths compared to 19" on the 125 and 150. Just something else to consider. Its going to be a personal preference.

[Sk8r]

Algae is always a problem waiting to erupt in sheets and film of green. That's why I urge strongly you do a fuge, one of the simplest, most efficient algae-ameliorators going. Note I didn't say 'algae-preventers', because the introduction of phosphate into your tank, from sand, rock, fishfood, phyto-feeding, conditioned tapwater (the conditioning doesn't remove anything but chloramine)---will fuel any algae spore that finds its way down to your water out of the air you breathe. Ie, yep, algae is a perpetual problem. You get hair, then bubble, coralline (good stuff, because other stuff won't grow on it), and film; then you get the semi-algae/semi-animals, ie cyanobacterial sheets and diatoms; and then when you get rid of those you're back to algae again. This just goes on and on until your tank has aged enough and you've been persistent enough to get rid of the phosphate... SO many people believe as an article of faith that their tanks will, once they 'win the battle' revert back to white pristine sand. Nay. But it can get better than you see just after cycling, with sheets and streamers of hair algae waving in the current. As an example, my algae curse right now is film algae. If I dropped the most hair-infested rock possible into my tank and let it set a week, the hair algae would all die off. The phosphate in it would go to fuel the film algae. Fortunately I have a sump with a 20 g fuge, and the macroalgae (seaweed) down there would have a feast and grow, instead of it getting back to the display again. What I need to do is turn my lights out for a few days and kill off the film, (thus feeding the seaweed below) and then toss some of the seaweed. That's how you handle algae, while you're waiting for age to happen.

Yep, let me x2 the posters talking about convenience of maintenance. In the shop, get on a stool (I'm sure they have one: they're a fish store!) and reach to the bottom of the tank you propose to buy. Then try to reach the back of it, and various other places you would have to maintain. Do not buy a tank that exceeds your reach---physically---or that is exactly where inconvenient things will get to, to drive you bananas.

[Sk8r]

Lol---re drilling the floor: scary. First of all, having a wood floor is an asset. Second, you need to know where your wiring is downstairs, and make sure you're not drilling into a wire, conduit, pipe, or drainpipe---or coming down on a floor support. You figure out how upstairs and downstairs work together, measure, measure, and measure a third time relative to the loadbearing wall that should be duplicated below in the mid-basement. You can drill right through carpet and pad (it actually works rather well that way) and thread up (up is easier) your return hose and downflow hose. If you do have a basement with a floor drain and a utility sink, it's great: unlimited space for gear, and all the pump noise confined belowstairs, leaving you only the lighting fan and durso gurgle abovestairs.
But measure, measure, measure!

[Stuart60611]

Hopefully, this does not come out offensive to anyone, but I must say that I am a bit disappointed with this thread. The value of this thread imo is predicated on keeping the discussion at least generally on how to properly choose what tank to purchase. Now, I too made a post here that deviated slightly so as to include all related issues on how to properly choose a tank b/c I think that tank selection is most greatly influenced by livestock choices, and the tank selection and all other related considerations are all focused on meeting the chosen livestock's needs.

However, now the thread is dealing with algae issues. To me, the thread looses much of its uitlity when the discussion veers so off topic. Someone who reads the thread thinking that they will get lots of useful information on how to best select a tank will be disappointed to learn that much of the information in the thread has nothing whatsoever to do with that issue. Just my opinion.

[Sk8r]

Something should also be said about the racket a tank makes. Understand that a tank is noisy, and hot. You have two pumps going, one for the skimmer, and one for the return of water to the tank. There is a computer fan or two whirring away keeping a metal halide bulb cool (if you have mh---which is very pricey!)---and there is the durso standpipe kit, that rules the overflow. The durso can sound like Niagara Falls. You have to like the sound of water. If you have a spouse that doesn't---you have a problem. Now, if you google durso, you will see numerous schemes to moderate that noise, including drilling the standpipe full of holes, or raising the water level in the overflow (so the water doesn't have so far to fall: little waterfalls are less noisy.) I raised my water level. But there have been serious spousal tiffs during setup. ;)
Take your spouse to the fish store and let them hear the noise level. Study how to moderate it. I don't know about the fan noise on T5 lights---never seen one; but on mh, it's significant.
And some really big tanks have more than one overflow.

[Sk8r]

Livestock issues are important. Very.
If you have a firm idea what you'd like to keep, you have to budget for it, and have space for it...and you'll need to know the adult sizes of everything you want...plus not just accommodate them, but give them space for a territory if they're of that bent; or space to run, if they're a free-ranger.
Do you have any specific queries, Stuart? a fish list you'd like to have? Or is it a reef with fishes? What's your dream tank, or are you still making up your mind?
A hundred gallon tank tends to be about 5 feet long, and can house many common favorites, like a small-to-medium-sized tang, a medium angel, a medium trigger, a pair of clowns. (I don't mean half-grown: I mean one of the medium sizes full grown). You can also handle a few damsels, and some of the smaller fishes, blennies, gobies. A 75 can barely handle a yellow tang or a dwarf angel, and gobies and blennies. A 50 is best with gobies and blennies and the like, nothing larger. When you get below 50, you're best with what we call nano-fishes, some of the gobies, blennies, and very tiny fishes.

[Stuart60611]

Livestock issues are important. Very.
Do you have any specific queries, Stuart? a fish list you'd like to have? Or is it a reef with fishes? What's your dream tank, or are you still making up your mind?


No, I have a fully stocked 125 fowlr going now for several years. I could comment on my dream tank, but I do not want to divert the thread to discussing my particular dream livestock choices instead of its intended focus on providing useful information applicable to everyone on how best to select a tank.

[Stomkat]

Another reason to research what you want in your tank before purchasing:

I was confused for a bit by some of the sites selling fish. They list the fish, then give the size. Not the size of the mature fish, but the size the fish will be when it arrives at your house. I didn't realize this until I was looking at a fish I knew would get HUGE, and it was listed as 3".

[TVenters]

One thing I've found out while researching about the tank I want to build thats helpful (even though I don't own one yet, its something I think is important.) It relates to the number 3 up in Sk8r's post.

Shop around. I live in a major metro, we have 8 or 9 LFS's not counting petco's and such. Price's can and do vary wildly, and that doesn't count the local reef club, who has its own forums and such, and people sell equipment they have outgrown or can't keep anymore (moving sucks sometimes.) You might find that between the internet and some careful shopping, you might find that what you want is actually in your budget.

And also, realize that not every last piece of equipment thats made for tanks is needed, and sometimes even though you might need to plan for a piece of equipment to be added eventually, you don't have to have it right[ when you set your tank up.

My 2 cents, based off designing and planning for a tank (as a newbie), that I've found helpful.

[Sk8r]

x2 on both.
Remember you're dealing with the ocean, and adult fishes that are colorful AND plentiful AND hardy AND smaller than 3" as adults are not that many species. There's a big lot of reef fish that hover around the 1 FOOT size (some damsels [Seattle Aquarium in its dome has what looks like a domino damsel that exceeds that] angels, and tangs) and then there are the somewhat larger guys that just aren't appropriate to keep, unless you're the Monterrey Bay Aquarium. Plan your tank for beautiful rockwork, add some easy corals for color (if your fish don't eat corals, and many (angels and butterflies) do...and plant a chair in front of your tank...an excellent way to enjoy a miniature reef. Sit and watch the detail. Having fish properly sized for your tank means they have territories, they have their own hidey-places which they'll dive for when a shadow passes---they act, in short, as they would on a reef in the ocean.

[1tlew0]

Thanks for the post Sk8r.. Always nice to see someone helping newbies out with information that some people don't inform you on!

[Amunet]

Would you say a strictly coral/anemone tank with very few fish would do well in a 50G tank or do they require a larger size?

[Sk8r]

Your possible problems: 1) and worst: a nem getting up and swimming---they float about, stinging things, if really annoyed: they puff up, get into the circulation, and generally go where the current goes, until they get sucked into a powerhead (best not to have intakes where nems can reach) and turned into a stinging soup that gets everybody at once. Keep the nem in perfect water and keep 'reachy' corals from annoying it. 2) a nem growing (faster than corals) and getting in reach of corals. By a few fish, you may mean clowns, and they can get really aggressive, tending to claim quite a bit of the tank. They ignore dragonets and dartfish, usually, don't much mind blennies and gobies, but anything like a chromis, a damsel (which they are), or ANY fish that looks like them and they're on the warpath. I had clarkii's that not only took after everybody but the species listed, but bit me bloody. (If I were getting a clown, I'd go for pink skunks, myself.) In general, the answer to your question is yes, but you're going to have to be particularly careful about aggression of corals, nems, and fishes.

[rivoth]

You need 1 lb of live rock per gallon


An alternative to live rock is an equivalent weight of sand. If you don't like the look of a tank filled with rocks then put in 3" of sand and just enough live rock to give the look you want.

Some early studies of different types of sand beds showed that all types where capable of a great deal of nitrate reduction.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature

[sstewart81]

Thank you for the tips. I am always researching things I think I want, and for different ideas on how to do some thing.

[mbehmke]

I'm a college student and have a 2 month old aquarium. I went 55 gallon and went cheap on a lot of different things, but I made sure to upgrade the things that were important. In the end, its cost about $1,000 so far. I built my own stand to help lower the price. Hope that gives you a cost idea

[Sk8r]

that's quite good, actually. The upper limit for a 55 can get scary: what you CAN spend: as much as 4000 on a 55 g, depending. Big costs are lights---500.00-800.00 for metal halides or HQI. A pump, depending, can run you around 100.00 for a mag 5, and upward, sump (prebuilt) 150-300. Tank, pre-drilled, with overflow and durso kit, up to 800.00 depending on glass thickness/quality and shape of tank. Skimmer: around 100, up.
Numbers like these are enough to give you indigestion, but it is useful to know what the upper end is, so that you can figure how what-you're-being-offered figures on that scale. If you're being offered a terrific bargain, how bargain is it?---and what quality corners might have been cut? and how expensive will it be for you to do some DIY.
DIY sump: highly do-able. HOB downflow---(hang-on-back)---worth a bit to have it actually pre-drilled. Glass thickness: tricks like laying down eggcrate lighting grid in the bottom can protect somewhat thinner glass from rock punches. Live rock: big savings if you get one live rock and order in some nice base rock and just wait 8 weeks on the cycle.
If you save in one area, you might be able to afford a little nicer item in another.

Important to what you keep: your lighting. Do your homework---do you NEED metal halide? Will t-5 HO do it? Don't get oversold. Don't get sold a big filter system: that's what your rock is for. Figure how much pump you need. Ask. No sense buying a killer pump and then having to throttle back (let me tell you that one!). ASK re the glass thickness when considering a tank. Consider a non-glass tank IF it has good bracing, because they can bend if not well-braced.

All these things are reasons to shop around and not pounce on the very first thing offered. Be picky. Read the labels and specs. COmpare. And if you're trying this for the first time and aren't sure this is for you, consider an all-in-one, which will let you get your feet wet in the hobby for about 300.00, and which, if you don't push it too far too fast, can be a good experience.