Question: How to build 4 feet acrylic square tube

[SuperNemo]

Hi, I would like to build an acrylic tube (square would be easiest) 4 feet tall. The length will be 1 feet by 1 feet so essential the structure would be 12x12x48.

Is this possible with 1/4 cell cast acrylic? I know that it would need to be braced for it to now bow at such heights. Anyone know if I could do it maybe with a exterior euro bracing every feet.

If you were to make such a tube, how would you do it. Would prefer to use 1/4 cell cast to save on cost.

Is it possible? Thanks.

I would like to fill it with water up to about 3.75 feet.

[BeanAnimal]

what is the purpose of the project? Without a frame of reference, it is hard to give advise.

[SuperNemo]

the purpose of the project to is make a sand filter for my freshwater tank.

The first foot would be empty, then the next two feet will be filled with sand and the last is also empty. It will be filled with water.

Water will enter the bottom and then run through the sand and flow over.

I have one using a 5 gallon bucket, but cannot see how dirty the sand become to do a back flush of the sand. I though making a larger on with acrylic would be nice and since its clear, I can see how dirty the filter becomes over time.

[Ocean's Edge]

I am going to say -- to carry that kind of weight at that hight -- you will need atleast 1/2 if not 3/4" -- this is a good theory project.. i would recommended tube acrylic though -- the pressure on the seams will be very high

[SuperNemo]

I looked up tube acrylic, but it gets reall expensive at that size. Guess that project is out of the question. Thanks guys.

[westmoorenerd]

How about still using the 5g bucket, but making a window where the sand is?

[BeanAnimal]

Westmoore... thanks for your service.

Nemo, why not build a plywood filter and line it with fiberglass and epoxy. You could easily build a glass or acrylic viewing window into one side.

[JTL]

You can purchase clear vessels of various sizes online. I bought a 22L one used in the food industry a while back that I belive is some type of polycarbon material, very clear and was about $30. I think the company was U.S. Plastics.

[SuperNemo]

bean, dont want to bother with plywood. too much trouble with the fiberglass and epoxy.

JTL, you idea sounds good. I looked around but didnt really find any tall vessels. I'll check out US Plastics

[widmer]

Or maybe a ~6 gallon glass carboy used in brewing? You would either have to drill another hole or be creative with plumbing, as the hole is only ~1.5" ID. But it's really inexpensive :)

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/6-5-gallon-glass-carboy.html

[BeanAnimal]

The OP is talking about a 30 gallon sand filter. Many folks are pointing towards 5 gallon or smaller containers. Either I got lost somehwere along the way or...

[SuperNemo]

the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall. I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank. The water is literally crystal clear.

I have a larger 225G parrot tank that i would like to make a larger sand filter for.

Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers? the acrylic idea seems to not be feasible.

[widmer]

The OP is talking about a 30 gallon sand filter. Many folks are pointing towards 5 gallon or smaller containers. Either I got lost somehwere along the way or...

What's wrong with thinking outside the box (no pun intended :spin1:) to find a creative solution? Either way, I think we thought that using a smaller would be within the realm of possibility because:


I have one using a 5 gallon bucket, but cannot see how dirty the sand become to do a back flush of the sand.

[widmer]

the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall. I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank. The water is literally crystal clear.

I have a larger 225G parrot tank that i would like to make a larger sand filter for.

Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers? the acrylic idea seems to not be feasible.

What if you looked around craigslist for a deal on ~4" acrylic tube, and plumbed a couple sections together (sort of like an RO unit)? I got a nice acrylic tube for close to nothing because there was a fracture in the middle of it, which I simply avoided when I was using the tube in a build.

[BeanAnimal]

Word order, word choice and sentance structure are incredibly important when communicating. While the OPs questions and responses have been somewhat ambiguous, they have been detailed enough outline his desire for a container larger than 5g that is ALSO clear.

The sentance following what you quoted is:
I though making a larger on with acrylic would be nice and since its clear, I can see how dirty the filter becomes over time.


Indicating that he was looking for a LARGER container that is clear.

the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall...
...Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers?


The key points being made here are.

1) the current opaque filter topolgy is not suitable
2) a larger (taller) filter is desired

The OP proposed a container that has 500% more capacity and is 225% taller. In the context of the OPs question and criteria, I would not consider a 5G clear carboy or a 4G lexan container as matches to the infered criteria (or thinking outside the box). Sur ethey are clear, but that they are not taller or larger than a 5g pail :)

For that matter, a 5g glass carboy and a plastic water cooler bottle are the same basic size but the plastic would be easier to work with (though it does not meet the criteria).

Time to watch football... have fun :)

[BeanAnimal]

In any case...

AquaticEcoSystems has exactly what he is looking for:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/934/Transparent-Tanks/
http://www.aquaticeco.com/images/subcategories/large/T4_T8_cmyk.jpg

The flat bottom 12" dia 4' high tank is only $132

A few uni-seals and some PVC and he can have exactly what he is looking for, at nearly the same cost as the 1/4" acrylic he had proposed to begin with :)

[TAB]

You can get a 1' diameter piece of PVC pipe very cheaply if you are buying a cut off. Its not even uncommon for them to be given away. Then its just a matter of getting some pvc sheets and build a bottum and top for it.

[widmer]

Wow bean, can I suggest a pill to help you relax? Again, we're just trying to help brainstorm, but now I'm almost sorry that I tried to help. Anyways, what do you make of this?

the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall. I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank.

[iamwrasseman]

if you don't need to see in it then you can use simple pcv scedule 40 ,very cost effective and easy to work with IMO .

[BeanAnimal]

Wow bean, can I suggest a pill to help you relax?

I am going to kindly ask that you refrain from personal attacks, they have no place here.

Anyways, what do you make of this?

the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall. I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank.



You asked a question, so I will kindly answer it.

The quote leaves out the key sentances, words or context in the post. One can't just pick a sentance or word out of a post, it has to be taken in context with the rest of the sentances, words and context that has developed to that point.

The WHOLE quote was:
the size of the container doesnt really matter too much except its better to be tall. I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank. The water is literally crystal clear.

I have a larger 225G parrot tank that i would like to make a larger sand filter for.

Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers? the acrylic idea seems to not be feasible.

So reading the post for context:
The sentance(s):

"I have made on with 4"pvc for my small goldfish tank. The water is literally crystal clear."

are used to point out that the he (the op) has made SMALL filters for SMALL tanks. The NEXT sentance clearly puts context to the previuos two when he says:

"I have a larger 225G parrot tank that i would like to make a larger sand filter for."

He further clarifies his intentions by stating (in the very next sentance):
"Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers?"

So I make of the sentance, exactly what was meant :)

[BeanAnimal]

if you don't need to see in it then you can use simple pcv scedule 40 ,very cost effective and easy to work with IMO .

I have one using a 5 gallon bucket, but cannot see how dirty the sand become to do a back flush of the sand. I though making a larger on with acrylic would be nice and since its clear, I can see how dirty the filter becomes over time.

Anyone else have an idea for tall clear containers?


:)

[iamwrasseman]

oops sorry ,i'm outta here !

[Ocean's Edge]

terrific... terrific... -- lol... wowsers

[SuperNemo]

In any case...

AquaticEcoSystems has exactly what he is looking for:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/934/Transparent-Tanks/
http://www.aquaticeco.com/images/subcategories/large/T4_T8_cmyk.jpg

The flat bottom 12" dia 4' high tank is only $132

A few uni-seals and some PVC and he can have exactly what he is looking for, at nearly the same cost as the 1/4" acrylic he had proposed to begin with :)

I like these. Thanks beananimal. Going to check these out when I get a chance.

[Scott-CapeCoral]

Nemo, Do they clog with debree and need to be flushed periodically?

[BeanAnimal]

I like these. Thanks beananimal. Going to check these out when I get a chance.

If you end up with one, please let us know what you think. I have considered purchasing one several times for various projects but have never pulled the trigger. They may even make good skimmer bodies for the price.

[BeanAnimal]

Nemo, Do they clog with debree and need to be flushed periodically?

You need to back flush them, otherwise the organic material will rot in them :)

[SuperNemo]

Yes. the 4" pvc version for my goldfish has four airstone. I basically used two 1/2 pvc caps with a small piece of 1/2 pipe and glued the two ends together. I drilled four holes slight smaller than the fitting of the air stones and also one hole on the top of the pvc caps for the air line tubing.

It place on the lowest portion of the tube with sand and i turn on the air pump (tetra deep water) and the air bubble loosen the sand and carry the fine poop up to the top. after a little while the sand become clear.

There is also a value under the sand which i also empty out. This portion holds the large poop particules that are trapped by a small mesh between the prefilter chamber and the sand chamber.

Works great. I do about a weekly flush with water change water.

Bean, do you know if the wall thickness on those tubes are strong enough to hold it full of water. I would think so, but if the wall thickness is weak, even if i use uniseals, it would not seal properly.

what do you think?

[SuperNemo]

man, i just re-read what i wrote. really should proofread what i write sometimes.

sorry for the crazy typos and run on sentences.

[BonsaiNut]

Take it from someone with a large koi pond - sand filters are not worth the hassle. They clog and channel almost instantly even with regular backwashing. In fact, many commercial sand filter suppliers are now going so far as to state "not for filtering heavy organic loads" (aka aquariums or ponds).

If your heart is really set on a this type of filter, I would set it up as a bead filter. Better yet, set it up as a reverse flow bead filter (using floating media), so that the water filters upwards and when you backflush you flush the media down.

I have a commercial reverse flow bead filter with a blower. I first turn the filter off, and then blow high pressure air bubbles through the media - THEN backflush. Do that a couple of times and your media gets completely cleaned and loosened up and you flush the larger organic material away - without harming the biological filtering capacity of the filter.

[SuperNemo]

i thought about bead filters also. the sand filter is used primarily for trapping the fine particles. bio filtration occurs with the bio balls, i dont used the sand for that purpose.

sand seems to give me the most clear water quality so far.

[BonsaiNut]

i thought about bead filters also. the sand filter is used primarily for trapping the fine particles. bio filtration occurs with the bio balls, i dont used the sand for that purpose.

sand seems to give me the most clear water quality so far.

Trust me on this. A bead filter will trap everything a sand filter will trap, without the downsides. I've had both and will NEVER have a sand filter again. My koi pond looks like a spring it is so crystal clear. It has been running for four years now with the bead filter and has not required any filter maintenance aside from backflushing. I even got scared this year and opened it up just to check that the media was all still there :)

Any sand filter will clog and channel unless you can physically stir the sand. Even with a blower my sand filter would channel. After about 6-9 months I would have to open up the filter and "stir" the sand to break it up. When I say "stir" the sand would often be accreted together like cement and I would have to unclump it by breaking it up with a screwdriver. Some of the sections of the filter would go anaerobic so when I would break up the sand I had to worry about backflushing hydrogen sulfide out of the filter so it wouldn't kill my fish. Part of the problem with sand is that it is HEAVY - it is very hard to stir - especially if it has been allowed to settle in a column for any period of time. Beads are light and are easy to blow around - but when the water is flowing against them in one direction they clump together and trap particulates just as well as sand (in my opinion).

Granted this is for larger applications - my bead filter is rated to 10,000 gallons. But bead filter media is not that expensive even for a DIY bead filter, so why wouldn't you take advantage of it?

Taking another look at the Aquatic Eco column - just think of that thing filled with sand. How much would it weigh - even drained? Let me help you with the math - if you filled it with sand to 3' deep, you would need 235 lbs of sand :) What if you HAD to get into the middle to loosen the sand - how could you do it? Certainly running some airlines into the bottom would NEVER budge a 3' column of sand - the air would just run channels through it. Now think of it filled with 3' of floating beads. Turn off the water and drain it and the whole column of beads has to drop down and loosen. Plus, the thing would weigh at lot less. Bonus - the beads would not scratch your expensive clear tube - so you could still see what was going on after backflushing for several years.

There are few things I hate more than sand filters. Right now I can't recall any :)

[Anemone]

I think perhaps some poster(s) need to step off their high horse when posting. Talking down to people is neither helpful nor appreciated. Also, it geives RC a bad name.

No matter how good your advice, if your delivery is problematic (and it is in this thread), then you are NOT being helpful.

Kevin
Anemone
RC Admin

[Luckless]

If buying pre-fab clear acrylic tubes of a suitable size and wall thickness is too expensive, then I would price out a number of smaller diameter tubes to gang together to come up with your desired volume. Plumb them in series or parallel, or a combination as needed.

However, your original idea of external braces is still a good one, but you would likely be looking at a brace every few inches to be safe. I would also reinforce the corners inside and out to be safe. After all, you just want something for inspection purposes, not display. So what if you have bands every inch or two?
Sadly I don't have numbers I trust on acrylic, so we would have to get someone else to run the numbers to be sure on the spacing. I would also consider making the bands as 4 corner pieces joined with a straight piece over the seam so as to avoid huge amounts of scrap. (Maybe a few solid pieces without seams if you can come up with a good layout for them.)

Clipping your corners a little and making an unequal octagon might also be a good suggestion.

Increasing the spacing of the braces as you go up would/adding extra to the lower half also be a decent idea.

[Everyones Hero]

Bean- you crack me up.

OP- is this basically a filter like you would find on a pool?

[SuperNemo]

bonsai, i'll look into a bead filter. just dont know if beads will be able to trap all those fines that make water cloudy looking.

luck, i though about all those bracing possibilities as well. you are absolutely correct, its for visual inspection and not for display purposes. I dont care if the tube is ugly and braced every so many inches, as long as I can visual inspect when i should do a backflush.

hero, its similar to that of a pool filter. however, there is a prefilter on the lower portion of the filter design. this helps to keep large particles from getting into the sand portion of the filter. the purpose of the sand is to trap the real small fines that micron filters can't get.

so far i think beans suggestion on the cylinder tubes are the best. just dont know how thick the walls are.