Ammonia in Oceanic Salt Mix.

[mdlewis11]

I read a thread here about ammonia appearing in freshly mixed salt water. I decided to test this out myself just to see how long one should allow freshly mixed salt water to stand before adding it to the DT. The theory was that chemical reactions caused the mix to spike slightly in ammonia at first and then dissipate in time, usually being 0 ammonia after 24 hours.

Sidebar: I don't have a RO/DI unit yet but it's on my list of things to get.

I draw my tap water in a five gallon bucket and allow it to stand at least 48 hours before I use it for anything. It's not as good as RO/DI water but is better than right out of the tap.

For this test, I have ~5 gallons of tap water that has sat at room temp for 3 or 4 days. I use my "Aquarium Pharm." test kit to test the water and my DT for ammonia. Both read 0 ammonia.

I add enough "Oceanic Natural Sea Salt Mix" to bring the salinity close to 35ppt and swish it around for a few minutes by hand. At this point I didn't have a mixing pump. I gave it a few minutes to totally dissolve and then tested it with my refractometer. The mix was a bit light so I added a bit more salt mix until I got 35ppt.

Once the proper salinity was reached I tested for ammonia and sure enough, it was 1 ppm. No big deal I thought as I had read about this effect and had expected the result. Just for fun I tested again right before bed time, 3 or 4 hour later, and again read a 1 ppm. Keep in mind that the bucket has only been hand agitated for a few minutes as I did not yet own an additional pump.

The next morning, 1 ppm.

24 hours after being mixed, 1 ppm.

48 hours after being mixed, 1 ppm.

72 hours after being mixed, 1 ppm. By now I think it has to be the lack agitation because I remember reading that chemical process that allows the ammonia to dissipate is a reaction between the salt, water and oxygen. So I made a trip to the LFS and pick up a mini pump to place in the bucket. It does a great job at turning over the water in the bucket. Any more flow and there would be spillage.

96 hours after being mixed, and 24 hours of being mixed by strong current, 1 ppm ammonia.

I'm not gonna add this to my DT. And I'm about to go buy another bucket of Instant Ocean, which is what I used before I ran out. But before I did, I wanted to see if you guys have any advice.

Could the water being kept at room temp be a factor? I normally only heat the water right before adding it to the DT.

I wish I had ran this experiment with my Instant Ocean before I ran out.

It could be a bad test kit but my DT reads 0 when tested.

Any thoughts?

Michael

[HighlandReefer]

The industrial processes used to aquire the different chemicals used in salt mix utilize ammonia to extract them, hence you will find some levels of ammonia in the salt mixes. The same applies to using the de-icers many hobbyists use for supplementing calcium and magnesium. Unfortuantely it takes further refining to remove the contaminates from industrial grade chemicals, which costs much more, to get food grade chemicals. If the salt mix manufacturers used food grade chemicals, the salt mixes would cost much more.

When doing major water changes this can be a concern or when you first start a tank with new salt mix. Other contaminates such as heavy metals can be a problem as well.

It will take biological action to remove ammonia from your water (like bacteria) or treatment by using an appropriate chemical. Aerating or stirring salt mix wil not remove ammonia by itself.

As far as test kits I quote Randy below:


"Testing for Ammonia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are several ways to test for ammonia in seawater. These include test kits based on both salicylate and Nessler chemistry.

Nessler Test Kits

The reaction of ammonia with Nessler's reagent, K2HgI4, forms a colored precipitate of (Hg2N)I·H2O. Low levels of ammonia are yellow, higher is orange and even higher levels can be brown. The overall reaction is:

NH3 + 2[HgI4]2− + 3OH− → HgO�Hg(NH2)I + 7I− + 2H2O

One significant concern with the Nessler method is the toxicity and hazardous nature of the waste that is generated by its use (it contains mercury).

Salicylate Test Kits

Ammonia's reaction with hypochlorite forms monochloramine, which then reacts with salicylate in the presence of sodium nitro-ferricyanide to form 5-aminosalicylate. That complex is yellow to green to dark green based on the level of ammonia present. In some versions of the test, calcium and magnesium can cause interference, so be sure such a kit is designed for marine systems.

The distinction between these methods can be important, as some combinations of ammonia binding products and test methods can lead to false ammonia test results (either causing apparent ammonia presence when it is bound, or simply causing a color that is not predicted by the test kit). For example, a Nessler type kit cannot read ammonia properly if the aquarist is using Amquel, Seachem Prime or related products to bind ammonia. The result is often an off-scale brown color.

So, it is particularly important that aquarists understand how the test kit that they are using, and the binder that they are using interact, and the manufacturers of each are the best place to find such information.

My suggestion is to always measure total ammonia. If a kit gives a choice of measuring free ammonia, don't bother. You can always use a table to convert total ammonia to free ammonia if there is a strong reason to do so. The reason to measure total ammonia is that the signal will be much larger, so the kit will be more capable of distinguishing a small reading of ammonia from no detectable ammonia."

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

[HighlandReefer]

"I'm not gonna add this to my DT. And I'm about to go buy another bucket of Instant Ocean, which is what I used before I ran out. But before I did, I wanted to see if you guys have any advice."

I would treat the salt mix with a product like Amquel and it should be fine to use then. ;)

Edit:
IIRC, some of the salt mix manufacturers do add products to their mix to help remove ammonia. Perhaps these products can be interfering with your ammonia test kit as is described by Randy in his article. You may want to call the salt mix manufacturer and ask them about this.

[brickfollett]

I've heard that Prime can sometimes alter results on test kits. I use Prime religiously for freshwater but I have an RO so I don't even both with it for my reef

[disc1]

If it is only 1 ppm and you're not doing like a 50% water change or something I would go ahead and use it. With a 10% water change you would only bring the level in the tank to 0.1ppm. I think the bacteria in the tank should make very short work of that.

[bertoni]

The ammonia can be reduced only by microbial activity, in reality. There's no practical way to outgas ammonia, especially in a seawater system. That level is rather high for freshly-mixed saltwater, and I'd probably switch brands, although it's likely safe enough for small water changes, as suggested.

[ReefKeeper64]

Before finding this thread, I found a DPF from Seachem that backs up what has been said here regarding ammonia being found in salt mixes. In my case, I'm using plain old Instant Ocean.
<CITE>www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf (http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Salt_Mixes.pdf)</CITE>

My R/O water reads 0 ppm ammonia. When I make a batch of salt water using this same R/O water, I get ammonia readings of 1.0 ppm. Funny thing is I've done this for years and have never bothered to test a batch of salt water mix for ammonia content before now. What a surprise this was. To add this water to my display tank I am not worried much as I've always maintained 0 ammonia in that tank as the biological filter cleans up the ammonia in short order. Its the idea of using this water in a hospital tank that concerns me.

Q - The hospital tank is being used for a prophylactic coppersafe treatment so I cannot add Prime to that water per the manufacturer. This tank has no real biological filter as it is bare bottom. Is it safe to use this water in a hospital tank with ammonia reading at these levels?


The only solution I can think of not use salt water mix in the hospital tank going forward. Instead, I can pull salt water out of my display tank and use that in the HT. Am I over concerned you think? Or are there other options/solutions to consider?

Thanks in advance!

[bertoni]

1 ppm is high enough that I wouldn't use it. There might be lower-ammonia salt products on the market, or you could consider saving water from a water change, if the display tank is free of diseases.

[ReefKeeper64]

1 ppm is high enough that I wouldn't use it. There might be lower-ammonia salt products on the market, or you could consider saving water from a water change, if the display tank is free of diseases.

Jonathan, Thanks for the advice. Fortunately, my DT is free of diseases to my knowledge and I'm planning to do just as you recommended beginning this evening.

Thanks again!
Chris

[bertoni]

You're welcome!