Setting up new tank, few questions

[throughstream]

Hello other reef tank enthusiast. I have kept tropical fish for about 8 yeas and thought I would take the plunge into marine aquatics. I have bought a second hand 40g tank juwel 180 vision bow front which came with a prism protein skimmer altho can’t see make and a Eheim 2213 canister filter oh and also sand at the bottom. I was also given a 250w metal halide on the cheap. I have 2 power heads. As I have no experience I was thinking of getting fish with LR and then in the future getting corals when I get more knowledgeable. My questions are as follows.

1) I went to a reef specialist shop and they said I should use the canister filter to remove carbon and phosphate as live rock will do the rest. Is this true and how would I set them up etc? I read somewhere that phosphate remover gives off aluminium compound which effects bubble anemone?

2) Should I build a sump or is this overkill, if not how big should this be.

3) The tank looks dirty should I replace the sand? How should I clean the tank i.e using RO water?

4) How many and what cleaning crew would people recommend, I think such a powerful light will promote algae?

5) The guy I bought it off said in his new tank he got white spot and it killed all his fish because he didn’t have treatment, is there any essential treatments I should have at the ready?

I think that’s enough questions for now tho I seem to think of more everyday and as in life each answer leads to more questions.

[Steve Wright2]

Im new around here, so I will share my thoughts
but you need to wait before the more experienced members post before making any decisions

1) Cannister filters being used to house chemical media such as carbon, GFO, etc are OK , in my opinion, for any system that does not have a sump
phosphate removal resins , there are 2 main types GFO (granular Ferric Oxide, which is Iron based and as far as I know, provided its used / introduced sensible is OK with corals, nems etc - the other option product is Aluminum based and thats been associated with issues in soft corals from my research = so use GFO , in my opinion

2) a sump would be a great addition, and would be something you are glad of, when you take the plunge into corals - as big a sump as you can fit under the 40 would be my prefference and it could then incorporate a refugium for macro algae, sand etc to further help with nutrient removal - additionally you could have reactors in line for the chemical media and make the Ehiem redundant

3) I would discard the sand personally - but thats just me , but you could clean it, and then leave it to bake in the sun for a couple of weeks.
cleaning the tank, a mix of warm water and white vinegar can be used to get rid of any hardened calcium deposits and then a good rinse in RODI is a good idea

4) cleaning crew , cant help with exact amounts, but a mixture of snail types that focus on different areas (rocks and glass, plus some sand dwellers) are my usual starting point

5) not an area, I have any great experience with, so unable to advise properly here
I would QT all the fish you get for a couple of weeks prior to adding to main tank as that way you can treat the fish with meds (copper based for parasites etc) you dont want to be adding medications into your display tank, because copper based meds will kill your cleaners and may also build up in rockwork and pose a threat to future corals you add

Steve

[throughstream]

Thank you for all your info, btw the white spot was in his new tank not in the tank I bought.

[Moonstream]

1) I've never used canister filters, either in fresh or salt, so I have no experience here.

2) I'd say a sump is a good idea. melvesreef.com is a great resource for sump building (http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html). I'd shoot for something like a 20long or 15g.

3) as steve sugested, a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and water will work to clean the tank. I'd also replace the sand; personally, I'd stay away from sugar-sized sand and crushed coral, seafloor special grade reef sand is a good medium, I use it in my 29 and love it! also, if any rocks came with the tank, I'd scrub/dunk them in some fresh SW to wash away detritus clinging to the surface and any algae present.

4) I'd say 10 blue leg hermits, 15 cerith snails, 15 nerite snails, and 5 nassarius snails would be a good starting point for the CUC. I havnt had the best of luck with the nass snails though, and prefer the others, hence the uneven numbers.

5) I've havnt had to deal with any diseases so far- Ive been very lucky in this regard. I ersonally dont keep any meds on hand, though many would reccomend it. I only QT my fish when I see something outwardly wrong with them upon addition, which is rare. of course, the fish I get are all from sources I've bought from multiple times, trust, and have had only good experiences with. I would, however, recommend you QT.

[HanoverFist]

If you haven't you should really read through most of the links in the post New-First Time on RC-Look Here for Answers. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074) The nature of your questions tells me they will help a lot - they did me. It may seem like a lot of reading at first, but there really is a good sized chunk of info needed to get a foothold on the basics of saltwater let alone reef-keeping. You will be glad you did when you're on top of things and understand what is happening and know why.

4) In regards to the powerful light promoting algae...that's where nutrient control/export comes in. Ideally there would be nothing (nitrate/phosphate/etc) for problem algae to use as a food source. Again, read those articles for info on this.

[throughstream]

wow thankyou everyone for your quick responses. It 5 o'clock here in england so bit wierd having people responding at this time. I am thinking of building a sump after doing some research.

I may buy http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=6093073&Trail=searchtext>CHEST
as this matches beach tank

and then build a a sump like this:
http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html

Would I need my canister filter anymore if I did?

[Steve Wright2]

In my opinion - once you have a sump the cannister is no longer required
as you can locate the chemical media in reactors next to sump

its 1.15pm in China - and this is a world wide site

Steve

[throughstream]

I was looking the sump build and it sais "If live rock or live sand is used as bio-filtration, then the bio-media is more of a detriment than a benefit and should be removed. To make a long story short and avoid getting too far off topic, wet / dry filters are excellent methods of dealing with ammonia and nitrite in a fish only system, but are not effective at processing nitrate which can be a real detriment to reef aquarium systems." So if I didnt use bio filtration and just used a live rock sump would that be ok?

[HanoverFist]

Right, but you will most likely want to fill part, if not 85%, of the main display tank with LR too. You'd need a huge sump to house as much LR as you'd need - typical recommendation is 1.5 lbs per gallon. Check out some pics of other's reef tanks to see some examples. Think of a sump as an area mainly for extra water volume, equipment placement and water maintenance.

[throughstream]

I was advised to add about 20kg of LR to a 40g tank. I would probably use about 18-19 in display tank and 1kg-2kg in sump so I can grow caulerpa algae or such like. Is that what you ment by about 85% in main tank. This marine malarky is alot more complicated than I first thought.

[JPMagyar]

Hello other reef tank enthusiast. . . .

1) I went to a reef specialist shop and they said I should use the canister filter to remove carbon and phosphate as live rock will do the rest. Is this true and how would I set them up etc? I read somewhere that phosphate remover gives off aluminium compound which effects bubble anemone?



Welcome Fellow Reef Enthusiast!


I think your last comment is spot on as it's true this hobby is significantly more complicated than it looks at first blush, but fear not you have found the proverbial treasure trove of knowledge here at RC. Just take your time to parse the opinions carefully :reading:


Now on to the questions:

First off, I'm certain it was a typo, but I want to clarify that the canister filter would USE carbon NOT remove carbon. Carbon is the most common filtration media but having said that I would advocate NOT using a canister filter to start with if your ultimate goal is to work towards a reef with corals. To build an healthy reef tank you need to create a sustainable balance of nutrients and bacteria and the most successful system known is called the "Berlin Method" which in general does NOT incorporate a canister filter (although certainly some people do use them).






.

2) Should I build a sump or is this overkill, if not how big should this be.




Anything that increases the water volume of your system is outstanding so the biggest you can afford or accept is the best.









3) The tank looks dirty should I replace the sand? How should I clean the tank i.e using RO water?






Once the tank is up and running your options for making it look clean are limited. Clean it well now. There is a product commonly available in hardware or paint stores in the US known as Muriatic Acid. It is diluted Hydrochloric acid. You must use caution when using this as the fumes are harmful and it can cause mild burns on your skin, but if you dilute it at a ratio of 1:10 or 1:20 you can clean your old tank like new in minutes with a minimum of scrubbing. There are plenty of posts on RC with more details if you feel like researching them.






4) How many and what cleaning crew would people recommend, I think such a powerful light will promote algae?




You are 6 months away from needing a clean up crew. That comes after your tank has struck a balance on its own and needs a little help to keep it just right, and as for the light my tank has four 400 watt MH bulbs plus 4 110 watt VHO bulbs and I have no unwanted algae in my tank. Light does not make algae; excess nutrients do. Having said that your choice of lighting is wholly dependent on the type of reef you want to create and a 250 watt bulb will give you plenty of options. On the other hand it can pose a heat problem for a 40 gal tank so again a good reason to add a sump.







5) The guy I bought it off said in his new tank he got white spot and it killed all his fish because he didn’t have treatment, is there any essential treatments I should have at the ready?




Again, IF and that's a big if, but IF you want to create a reef tank do NOT ever in any way shape or form use a "fish treatment". A healthy reef tank is a perfectly balanced "natural" ecosystem. Natural being a bit of a stretch, but I mean not one managed with "treatments" rather an aquarium that uses the power of the Berlin System instead.






There . . . so that's the end of my overly wordy reply, but I hope you find it a good starting point for further thought, and I would add that there are lots of fun and great books you might read before you get started on this project. One of my favorites is Reef Secrets by Nilsen

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FN3245NYL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg



Anyways, I hope you'll take some pictures and keep us informed as everyone here loves a good "build story"! :beer:



Joe