My 29g progress thus far. Questions and suggestions needed!

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Ok, so here are a few pictures showing where I've come a few months ago when I started my 29g.

First set up with ~30lbs of dead rock:
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1548.jpg

Configuring the sump:
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1565.jpg

Installed RO/DI:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1568.jpg

Fuge side of sump:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1589.jpg

Return section:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1591.jpg

Skimmer section:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1593.jpg

[saltymight]

What are the game cases in skimmer section forare you that bored with halo lol. I have the same skimmer I love it. you might want to get some live rock to help seed the dead rock. Whats the egg crate for in the skimmer section?

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Full sump shot:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1598.jpg

Current aquascaping:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1599.jpg

The most ghetto way I could think of to hang my 175w Metal Halide :lmao:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1597.jpg

And my quarantine tank:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1596.jpg



Those are all of the pictures for now. I will update this thread more as my build continues.

My question is what next? The tank is cycled. All the params are in check for the most part.

Ammonia: 0
Trite: 0
Trate: was 20 last time I checked. Have done two 5 gallon water changes since to hopefully bring them down some. I'm also picking up some chaeto soon.
SG: 1.025
PH: 7.9
Alk: 8

Should I add a clean up crew? And could I get a fish to go into my QT?

Thanks guys!

[LeGaCYWinZ]

What are the game cases in skimmer section forare you that bored with halo lol. I have the same skimmer I love it. you might want to get some live rock to help seed the dead rock. Whats the egg crate for in the skimmer section?


The game cases were there when I was siliconing in the baffles of the sump to hold them in place :lmao:

And yes, I picked up 8 pounds of live rock to seed my rock a few weeks ago. The tank has already been cycled for 4-5 days. I'm just deciding what to get first :)

The egg crate I used as a pseudo baffle between the fuge and return section so the water can flow freely through it, yet still block chaeto from from getting into the return section.

[saltymight]

you could get a fish in the QT and wait the 6 weeks out. as for your DT do you have any algae in there yet. If not than you will need to wait for something to start popping up.
Haha When i was making the dividers for my sump I used a hot wheels car to hold it up

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Yeah, there is a decent sized diatom bloom and a tiny bit of hair algae in there. I was thinking of starting small. Like maybe 2 hermit crabs and 2 snails.

[kclewis]

the only thing I would question is the water level in the sump. it seems a little high. make sure when the power does go off that the water in the overflow and the back siphon does not overflow it.

[meco65]

Looking good.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

the only thing I would question is the water level in the sump. it seems a little high. make sure when the power does go off that the water in the overflow and the back siphon does not overflow it.

Checked and double checked.

I have about an inch of room to play with when/if the power would go out.

[kclewis]

thought you may have. i unfortunately learned that tid bit the hard way.

[greech]

Looks good. I would say its safe for a fish in QT. Tank should be in pretty good shape by the time its ready to go in. If you observed the cycle and nitrates bottomed out you should be ok to add a small CUC as well.

[zachfishman]

Ok, so here are a few pictures showing where I've come a few months ago when I started my 29g.

Configuring the sump:
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1565.jpg


Never knew Master Chief was a good substitution for Chaeto haha.:uzi:

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Looks good. I would say its safe for a fish in QT. Tank should be in pretty good shape by the time its ready to go in. If you observed the cycle and nitrates bottomed out you should be ok to add a small CUC as well.

I did indeed observe the cycle. Ammonia spiked and topped out at 1ppm, Trites topped out a 5ppm, then led to the 20ppm Nitrate spike.

I have yet to check the water after my two 5 gallon water changes.

Do nitrates HAVE to be 0 to introduce a small CUC? Or would it be ok if say my trates were down to 5-10, I introduced them, and then do another water change in a couple days?

Thanks,
Travis

[saltymight]

before my sump was installed my nitrates were 5-10 PPM. The chaeo its ideal for them to be at 0 you will be fine to add some lil buggers in.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Nice! I will be going out after dinner to get myself 2 hermit crabs and 2 snails and see how the little guys do! I'll get pics up as soon as I get them.

[saltymight]

I would suggest red scarlet they are more expensive but are better IMO. the snails you should get are nassarius snails. they like to burrow in the sand so they will help keep it mixed up. Also to help keep your crabs from eating snails get some extra shells. bigger than they are so when they grow bigger they can switch.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

I ended up buying 1 scarlet and 1 blue leg hermet, a Nassarius, and a Cerith snail.

They are accilmating as we speak! :)

EDIT: Also bought a pretty cool zoa frag. It's my first coral! The polyps are already opening up in the acclimating bucket so I'm hoping that's a good sign

Also, decided to hold out on buying a fish for the QT tank. I will do that over Thanksgiving break when I get some time.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Is it normal for zoa's to stay closed up for a bit when first introduced? When I first put them in several polyps were extended and now they are all closed up?

[greech]

Yes, they are adjusting to your light and flow as well as your water. Put them on the sand and let them be for a couple of days.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Thank you.

How long would they have to stay closed for for me to start having to worry about them?

[greech]

I would say if they are not open after a few days start asking questions. Zoas can take good flow but not direct flow. Lighting on the moderate side. have a feeling you'll see them tomorrow :)

Where's the pics?

Sorry but I have to edit this because that was my 1,000th post and I didn't even realize it! :bounce2::celeb3::bounce1::celeb2:

K, resume your thread :)

[zachfishman]

Thank you.

How long would they have to stay closed for for me to start having to worry about them?

I had a colony close for over a month after my tank got a little warm. Doing fine now. Best thing you can do is keep things stable and don't move them around looking for a "good spot."

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Thanks guys! Here are pics as promised:

Acclimating:
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1603.jpg

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1604.jpg

FTS with lights on...how's the aquascape?
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1606.jpg
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1607.jpg


And here is the zoa frag I bought:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1615.jpg

[zachfishman]

Since your tank is still very new, monitor your water closely to keep those zoas healthy while your system establishes. My rule of thumb is to wait until after both the brown algae and GHA blooms die back before adding coral.

Spend the time building a nice canopy to contain that MH! You'll be happy when you're no longer squinting looking at your tank. :thumbsup:

[saltymight]

sweet how about some pictures

[greech]

They're not completely closed so good sign already. Look like red centers with yellow/green skirts? If they were under lower lighting than your halide you may want to shade them just a bit for a few days but either way I think you will be fine.

What is that tube coming out of what looks like your return line doing?

Scape looks good but make sure it is stable.

[saltymight]

ha sorry i got distracted and took my time to post while it was open keep us updated on the coral. and dont forget that to get more empty shells when you get more CUC

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Since your tank is still very new, monitor your water closely to keep those zoas healthy while your system establishes. My rule of thumb is to wait until after both the brown algae and GHA blooms die back before adding coral.

Spend the time building a nice canopy to contain that MH! You'll be happy when you're no longer squinting looking at your tank. :thumbsup:

My water has been stable at these parameters for the last few weeks after the cycle finished:

SG: 1.025
Ammonia and Trite: 0
Trate: was 20...just did a water change and got them down to 10. Need to get my hands on some chaeto
PH: 7.9
Alk: 9

If I had the time, tools, and funds to build a proper canopy, I would. However, I'm broke and in college and a free PVC light hanger fit right in my budget :lmao:

[LeGaCYWinZ]

They're not completely closed so good sign already. Look like red centers with yellow/green skirts? If they were under lower lighting than your halide you may want to shade them just a bit for a few days but either way I think you will be fine.

What is that tube coming out of what looks like your return line doing?

Scape looks good but make sure it is stable.

Yeah, they are red centers with a dark green skirt.

That is just the tubing I was using to drip acclimate everything, although it does look suspiciously like it's coming from my return :lmao:

ha sorry i got distracted and took my time to post while it was open keep us updated on the coral. and dont forget that to get more empty shells when you get more CUC

Thanks will do. There are several other shells in my sand bed at the moment, but maybe next time I'm at the LFS I'll see if they can throw me a few for free.

[saltymight]

ha tomorrow i will show you a pick of my sump intake its made of a a wooden stick, metal bar and duct tape well gorilla tape. now that's ghetto but you know what it works great.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Exactly. As long as everything is functioning the way it should be, the ghetoness means nothing lol

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Ahhhhhhhh everything died!

I tried a clownfish before the cuc and it died as well after eating in the tank the first day. Being dumb, I didn't QT the fish first, so I was going to try my hand at some inverts while the tank ran fallow.

Both hermit crabs and snails I found dead this morning. The zoas are looking even more closed up than they were last night.

Water parameters check out other than nitrates being <20, but I don't think this would be the problem as to why everything is dieing so quickly.

What's going on!?!?!?

[saltymight]

20 is a little high. what is everything else at your salinity, ph ammonia. the tank temp. nobody sprayed anything near the tank right. anything sprayed in the air like disinfectant or ferbreez can get in to the water and mess things up.

[zachfishman]

What do you use to test your salinity? Swing needle hydrometers (if you're using one) are generally good, but it's good to check their accuracy.

[greech]

+1 to all above and how did you acclimate your additions? The tank is still new but 20ppm nitrates should not have done them in so quickly.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

20 is a little high. what is everything else at your salinity, ph ammonia. the tank temp. nobody sprayed anything near the tank right. anything sprayed in the air like disinfectant or ferbreez can get in to the water and mess things up.

Readings from LFS earlier to compare to my tests:
Amm: 0
Trite: 0
Trate: 5
SG: 1.025
PH: 7.9
Alk: 10

Nothing has been sprayed in my room directly that I know of. There is a Glade thing that shoots stuff out in the kitchen but that is far away from my room that I wouldn't think it would matter

What do you use to test your salinity? Swing needle hydrometers (if you're using one) are generally good, but it's good to check their accuracy.

I use a refractometer calibrated with RO/DI water

+1 to all above and how did you acclimate your additions? The tank is still new but 20ppm nitrates should not have done them in so quickly.

I floated 15 mins in bag to adjust for temp. Put everything in a bucket and drip acclimated ~4 drops per second until SG in bucket matched that of tank ~30 minutes.

[saltymight]

what is the temperature. did the creatures look all torn apart. check your ph tonight after the lights are out a couple of times its normal for ph to drop to 7.8 but if its 7.6 or lower it could explain death over night

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Temp fluctuates 78-82. I have checked pH after lights out and it is 7.8.

Also, no they did not look torn apart.

EDIT: Something I just thought about. Since I live in a college apartment, I share a bathroom with a roommate. Now sometimes when I'm making RO/DI water he needs to use the bathroom to shower and do whatever. Could anything like that have an effect on something in the water?

[saltymight]

Ok good not torn apart means no bad hitchhikers like mantis shrimp. Hmm bathroom. I would think Hairspray, accidental dropping of soap, toothpaste. Other than that I cant really think of anything. only last thing I can think of is is your RO/DI unit. Are you using the right hose like your not using the waste water. second is your system pulling out 0PPM. If i think of anything i will write back but i will keep looking for your post.

[T-dub]

It's possible that hairspray, fartspray, etc could be getting into your RO/DI water. I'd start using closed jugs or run the hose to a different room. Still seems like you're missing something but if livestock is dieing that fast, there must be something outside of normal cycling issues. Good luck

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Ok good not torn apart means no bad hitchhikers like mantis shrimp. Hmm bathroom. I would think Hairspray, accidental dropping of soap, toothpaste. Other than that I cant really think of anything. only last thing I can think of is is your RO/DI unit. Are you using the right hose like your not using the waste water. second is your system pulling out 0PPM. If i think of anything i will write back but i will keep looking for your post.

Yes, I'm using the right hose and I do not have a TDS meter, so I will invest in one of those as soon as possible, but I wouldn't think that would have such a dramatic impact even if the water wasn't exactly 0ppm

It's possible that hairspray, fartspray, etc could be getting into your RO/DI water. I'd start using closed jugs or run the hose to a different room. Still seems like you're missing something but if livestock is dieing that fast, there must be something outside of normal cycling issues. Good luck

Will do. I can run the hose with the bucket into the hallway to avoid anything such as that.


I talked to the people at the LFS last night(who are fortunately extremely knowledgeable about saltwater) and they were stumped as well. The only things they suggested were the old sand bed, old rock, or old salt causing problems. I had them test my water and I believe I posted the results in a previous post.

[saltymight]

The only reason why I ask if its at 0ppm is if your in an old building your pipes could have more heavy metals. at first the its normal for the ro/di unit to not be 0ppm it could normaly take a few gallons for it to get down there. The last thing i could think of is is your ro/di unit is used and it was laying around for a while and bacteria and such grew in it. After you get your bucket out in the hallway Do a good water change something like 50% test and then keep testing for a few days than try again with a couple of inverts. leave fish out for now.

[windowlicker916]

I know it might be a pain but you can always purchase water from the LFS then keep there water on hand in 5gallon jugs or whatever to do water changes. if you don't over feed you would only need to change 10-20% every two weeks or so dependent on bio-load.

That is of course if you never work out the issue :) good luck!

[LeGaCYWinZ]

The only reason why I ask if its at 0ppm is if your in an old building your pipes could have more heavy metals. at first the its normal for the ro/di unit to not be 0ppm it could normaly take a few gallons for it to get down there. The last thing i could think of is is your ro/di unit is used and it was laying around for a while and bacteria and such grew in it. After you get your bucket out in the hallway Do a good water change something like 50% test and then keep testing for a few days than try again with a couple of inverts. leave fish out for now.

I did a 25% water change last night. I plan on doing another 25% water change tonight again.

I will purchase a TDS meter as soon as my funds allow me to test the TDS of the water.

I bought the RO/DI unit new from BRS.

I know it might be a pain but you can always purchase water from the LFS then keep there water on hand in 5gallon jugs or whatever to do water changes. if you don't over feed you would only need to change 10-20% every two weeks or so dependent on bio-load.

That is of course if you never work out the issue :) good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion but I would hate to have my RO/DI unit be of absolutely no use to me. I think I will just keep doing big water changes and then in a week or so try a few more hermits or snails.


Also, just tested calcium and it is EXTREMELY low. Only 160! Could this have anything to do with anything?

[saltymight]

dont quote me but I dont think cal should be an issue right now since its only hermits and snails. but yes i know cal is used for snails to build there shells. that is pretty low should be around 400. that means something else is out of wack usually. i though you had two of the test kits.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

I didn't think that calcium would be that big of an issue concerning the deaths, I'm just trying to brainstorm things that could have possible done this given the circumstances.

What I'm leaning towards right now is pollutants from having filled the water in the bathroom with hairspray and what not being sprayed around it.

My course of action I'm thinking:
Do large 25% water changes for 5 days
Run a poly filter to get rid of any possible toxins
Try another hermit and see how it does

Sound reasonable?

[saltymight]

Do you have carbon running thats the best for getting rid of stuff. and sounds pretty good to me

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Yeah, but I just have it floating in a bag in the sump since I have no reactor. I could run it through an old power filter if that would be more effective?

Also, this whole Thanksgiving thing is really cutting into my reefing time lol

[saltymight]

Cant hurt to have water constitutionally moving over the bag. I have my carbon in a 6x6 square that is right at my inlet of the sump. all the water from the over flow box goes straight over it.

[Ethan_W]

i think you've just run into some bad luck. i have a 29g also... except it's sumpless, has a crappy skimmer, crappy T8 lights, and i never QT >.> yet everything lives and the corals all grow nicely. soooo... i hope you find a solution, good luck! try running the carbon in an HoB filter in the sump area if you can fit it rather than just letting it float. the water should be flowing through the carbon. also i dont know how old your carbon is but it is really only effective for roughly a month, so make sure you keep it changed

[Ethan_W]

especially if you are trying to remove bad stuff from your water, change it rather frequently. once or twice a week

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Cant hurt to have water constitutionally moving over the bag. I have my carbon in a 6x6 square that is right at my inlet of the sump. all the water from the over flow box goes straight over it.

Thanks for all of your continued help.

I will pick up my power filter this weekend and start running the carbon in that. I have some BRS GFO, too. Would I be able to run that in the power filter too?

i think you've just run into some bad luck. i have a 29g also... except it's sumpless, has a crappy skimmer, crappy T8 lights, and i never QT >.> yet everything lives and the corals all grow nicely. soooo... i hope you find a solution, good luck! try running the carbon in an HoB filter in the sump area if you can fit it rather than just letting it float. the water should be flowing through the carbon. also i dont know how old your carbon is but it is really only effective for roughly a month, so make sure you keep it changed

Thank you for your suggestions. I'm hoping it is just bad luck and the combination of running carbon and constant large water changes will help me get back on the track.

especially if you are trying to remove bad stuff from your water, change it rather frequently. once or twice a week

I am doing daily 25% water changes as of today and plan to do so for 5 days. Along with the carbon, this should help.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Also, one more thought I had. When the tank cycled it was relatively small. Ammonia only peaked for about a day and then went down and I got a VERY small algae bloom. Maybe I should try to get a bigger cycle going before trying anything else?

[SPotter]

what did you use to cycle your tank? how long was it running before you put in your first inhabitants? did you only put in dead rock or did you add live rock or live sand?

[LeGaCYWinZ]

I used 25-30 pounds of dead rock and seeded it with 8 pounds of live rock. The thing is though, my tank had an ammonia spike and nitrite spike before I added the LR, so maybe it didn't actually cycle?

It was ~2 months when I added the fish.

[SPotter]

I'm thinking it didn't cycle. Did you have any algae blooms or hair algae? I know I had a bunch of hair algae during my cycle and then I added the clean up crew about 2.5 months after starting the tank. Didn't add my first corals for another 1.5 months after that.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

There was a tiny diatom bloom but not a ton.

I'm thinking I may need to re cycle the tank.

[SPotter]

I think that's a good idea. See if you can get some live sand and put it in your fuge. Then add a raw shrimp to help things along. Slow and steady is the key to success in this hobby.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Well, lesson learned I suppose.

This does give me time to start reading up on some more stuff and QT a fish for when the cycle is done.

I have the QT set up with a power filter, heater, ammonia alert, thermometer, and PVC pipes in the bottom. I run it at the same SG as my DT which is 1.025. Is this adequate for a QT tank? How soon should I add a fish to the QT after I restart my cycle?

Thanks everybody.

[SPotter]

Well, I dont run a QT because of room issues and I have never had a problem. I dip my corals before putting them in the tank and feed my fish medicated food when a new fish enters the tank. I think its really important to just follow the steps. I know my levels peaked and came down in 10 days when I started my first tank but I still waited a couple of weeks before adding anything because I didnt trust that the cycle was over. Hermits and snails are really hard to kill and sometimes they arent dead. I've had snails that crawled out of my tank and were dry for several hours that were still alive when I put them back in the tank.

Take a look at this article on setting up a reef aquarium. I followed this step by step and have had no problems with my tank. There are a lot of great articles you can look up here as well.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=39

Keep us updated on your progress!

[LeGaCYWinZ]

Thank you for the article.

I added a raw shrimp in a filter bag and put a power filter on my DT temporarily to seed the media so I can run it in my QT when it comes time.

Hopefully the shrimp will kick start a big cycle so I can get this tank on track!

And since everybody loves pictures:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1616.jpg

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1618.jpg

[SPotter]

is that cooked shrimp in the bag? the tails look red. If it is, you really want to put uncooked raw shrimp in there.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

As far as I've read there really isn't a difference between using raw or cooked shrimp to start the cycle? Will the cooked shrimp not work or is raw shrimp just better?

[SPotter]

I would think there would be because a raw uncooked shrimp will create more bacteria as it goes bad than a cooked one. Not really sure but I would ask around. I just used live sand.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

From what I've read as long as it creates an ammonia source, which a cooked shrimp will do, it is adequate to cycle the tank. That and I just got some chaeto from someone in my local reef club that should be full of pods and other goodies. I'm talking to someone about some live sand as well.

That should definitely get my tank going.

[LeGaCYWinZ]

I suppose that warrants some pics :beer:

Chaeto:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1620.jpg

Full sump shot:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1621.jpg

The tank:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo204/travisgensley/100_1622.jpg

Thanks for all of the help everybody!

[LeGaCYWinZ]

A little update. It seems some fern caulerpa came in with the chaeto I picked up. Is there any harm in leaving this in my fuge?

Also, tested my params today, and my cycle is well on its way.

Ammonia: .5
Nitrite: .5
Nitrate: 20
pH: 7.8-8.0
SG: 1.026
Alk: 10
Temp: 77-80

[saltymight]

any new updates