Trading for my first saltwater tank, ALREADY set up with livestock. Questions!!

[Mrbowdeadly]

Hello all!

I am trading for my first saltwater setup, a 90 gallon fish only. I don't think the tank has any live rock.

I would like to get the tank and start over, putting in live rock and building it the way I want.

My problem is that it already has livestock, a yellow tang, coral beauty, niger trigger, and a clarkii clown. It also has some hermit crabs.

Should I try to sell the livestock? Rehome them? Trade? Keep? Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks alot,
Jason

[bertoni]

[welcome]

It's safest to sell or trade them. It's possible in theory to keep them, but it'd be some work. You could get some large RubberMaid tubs and use them as holding tanks, and use the tank's current live rock (if it has some) to provide filtration while rebuilding the new tank.

[Mrbowdeadly]

Hello, and thanks for the welcome.

Being completely new to this, I don't really want the responsibility of trying to keep some really nice fish going when I am in a learning curve. If they died I would feel badly.

Can you trade them in to your local fish store? Maybe for credit? Or should I try to find a buyer on here or craigslist or something? What are they worth if I do?

Thanks for the help,
Jason

[bertoni]

I don't know what they're worth, but a store might give credit, and craigslist might get you some money.

[Agu]

My opinion would be to sell them cheap to established reefers with the understanding you'll get cheap frags when you're ready.

You might get burned, but you may end up with some really nice corals.

[SwampyBill]

Your LFS may give you store credit, or sell them on C.L. Unfortunately, you don't have enough posts on RC to sell them here yet.

[Mrbowdeadly]

Great. Thanks for the input. I didn't know if stores would do that.

I am really excited!

Jason

[Mrbowdeadly]

Going to get my tank tomorrow night! I am very excited. Talked to my LFS and they said they would trade in healthy livestock for credit (cool) thanks for that suggestion.

Now I am wondering if I should take any of the existing water with me? If I do, how much, and how would you best transport 90 gallons of water?

Thanks for the continued help!
Jason

[Dino]

Since it sounds like you're going to be getting rid of all the livestock (good thing) I wouldn't really worry too much about saving any of the water. If there is some liverock have some new water mixed up at home that you can put the rock into until you have a chance to get the tank into the house and everything situated (and trust me, it'll probably take twice as long as you figure, just from experience :D).

[Mrbowdeadly]

Thanks for the reply Dino!

I am freaking out a little since this is the eleventh hour.

Ok, not gonna save the water then, but I will need to transport the fish. Seems like from reading posts that a cooler is the best way with all the fish in together, and maybe an air rock to keep it oxygenated?

I am going to get them tomorrow night, then go straight over to the LFS Saturday morning to drop them off.


Jay

[Sk8r]

If it has ANY rock it's live rock. If it has any sand, it's live sand, but you should wash the sand. You can transport the water in a 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brute trashcan, being careful to keep it stable; and you can move it in white polystyrene buckets from Lowe's paint department, 5 gallons at a time. You need to wash the sand before installing it, and beware of transporting a 90 g long tank with sand in it because of the weight. The fish---you can put the water in the tank with whatever sand is left behind, and slowly add the sand back in, after getting all the crud out of it, using half the old, tank water for that. Buy some clean salt water, ammonia-nitrate test strips, and a bottle of Amquel from your lfs, tell them about the fish and see if they'll at least board them and try to sell them, put any rock you have acquired with the tank in, then the washed sand, the water you have and the fish if you've still got them. Use the Amquel as per directions to prevent ammonia spikes (lethal) and heaven help you---if you can board the fish your life will be easy. If you can't, you're going to need us bigtime to walk you through this: get those test strips, and tolerate NO ammonia, period. Use that water HE has as washwater for the sand, and get it to run as clear as possible. It's live. But we're talking desirable bacteria here. Wear latex exam gloves: there may well be bristleworms: good guys, but painful to us. You'll probably have to fight that ammonia battle for a while, but that sand is your salvation if you treat it nicely and keep it alive. It alone can keep that tank going, as if it were live rock, granted there's no other rock present.

Lol---I see Dino and I are telling you much the same, except I'd use his tank water to wash the sand, and get water from the lfs. If you can't, you're going to have to mix 90 gallons of salt water, which takes 12 hours per 5 gallon bucket and a pump traded around: that's way many buckets. So get the lfs to help you! You desperately need water!

[Mrbowdeadly]

Sk8r,

Thank you for taking the time to hammer out such a detailed post. I still have lots of questions, so hopefully I can do this the best way.

Ok so even if it is base rock, it is still live rock to some degree. And there are things living in the sand, ok, I understand now.

If the tank is 90 gallons, and I take a 32 gallon can, I am only recovering a third of the water right? And then I am taking that and washing the sand with it? How exactly do I wash the sand? Not sure I understand the exact method.

The LFS has agreed to take the fish on credit. I can get something with the money at a later date. That will not be a problem for me.

So the big question here is....

Do I go to all the trouble to get the water to keep the sand and the rock alive or do I scrub them and start over with fresh sand, new live rock (I say this because his is just basic looking, not purple, looks alot like base rock).
So aesthetically the rock he has, living or not, does not look all that great. I was thinking of starting over. Fresh sand. Cycle tank. New live rock. Get it all up and running pretty, THEN go back to the LFS and get some basic starter fish. Read. Learn. Read more. Learn more. THEN go back and eventually get the fish I REALLY want.

I have never had a saltwater tank, and I would like the enjoyment of making it my own. Make sense?

Thanks again to you both for your help. Invaluable.

Jay

[bertoni]

I would ditch the sand and keep the rock live. It might have some useful animals growing in it. The sand is more work than it's worth, IMO.

[meco65]

If you don't keep the rock you can more than likely get credit for it as well.

[Mrbowdeadly]

Ok, I am going to set the tank up for a while, rather than look at it in my carport for five or six months till I move.

I got the tank home and in the house. It is a drilled tank, and there are no shut offs for the outlet and return. I think it would be helpful to install them just in case I need to work on the plumbing below. So that is my first project.

Once that is done, I am going to clean what I can, and possibly add to, or completely replace the sand. There is not alot in there, maybe and inch or so. It has only a residual amount of water on it, and it stayed in the truck overnight in the cold SO....it may not even be "alive" any more.

I want to make the sand deeper in the tank, I am going to do some research.

I kept 30 plus gallons of the original water to put back in the tank. That is covering the live rock now keeping it going.

So the project now is:

1) install shut offs
2) clean what I can.
3) replace or add to the sand
4) replace the 30 gallons
5) add more water and salt (I know it has to be specifically for aquariums)
6) replace live rock
7) start cycling and monitoring water.

How does that sound for a game plan??????

Thanks,
Jason

[bertoni]

That seems fine.

[Mrbowdeadly]

stop valves installed, bulkhead leaking...DOH!

Cannot get the nut off so I have to get a bigger wrench tomorrow to get it off. I am going to clean and reinstall. I researched it, and saw where I need to only hand tighten.

Slow going but I am getting it.

[Mrbowdeadly]

update.....


Ok, got the bulkhead fixed. Hooked up everything, made salt water. Introduced some base rock. Put in 40lbs live sand. Waiting...waiting...waiting.

I have never been so excited to watch water circulate and protein get skimmed.

[Mrbowdeadly]

How long should I have to wait for "bad" things to happen in my cycling process?

I used the original rocks from the old tank (not all but some)
I used 40lbs caribsea live sand (put in yesterday)
I used 15 (+ or -) gallons of the original tank water.

What I am unsure of is that the water and the rocks spent some time outside in Mucho Frio temperatures. The "live" rocks changed colors. Doesn't look like they have anything living on them now. Would the bacteria in the old water be affected by the cold too?

My SG is about 1.019, just added a little more salt.

Is it premature to test any other factors?

Thanks,
Jason

[Mrbowdeadly]

current parameters per test kit.

1.020 sg
8.2 ph

nitrates, nitrites and ammonia all 0

How am I doing so far?

Jason

[BASA]

If you just started cycling the tank today you have some time to wait. You can help kick start the process by tossing in a frozen shrimp or the less popular way put a domino damsel in the tank.

Long story short once the ammonia level spikes then goes back down to zero you are ready to start (slowly) adding to the tank.

Your SG is a little low for a reef tank... are you using a refractomer to test the SG? If so make sure you calibrate it before use amd you can use RO water because it has a SG of zero.

You will also need to get test kits for Mag, Alk and Cal.

From the pictures I saw I do not believe you have enough rock to keep a healthy reef system, you are going to need a lot more. It does not need to be Live Rock base rock will do.

Are you using RO/DI water?

What kind of lights came with the tank?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1696795

The above link has a lot of great information and I found to be very helpful and accurate. You should read the entire thing.

Good Luck!

[bertoni]

I'd get the SG up to 1.0264, but I agree that calibrating the SG device is important.

If the rock got cold enough, all the bacteria might be dead. If the water is showing zero ammonia after a while, then you could add a bit of fish food every day, and see what happens. That'll feed the bacteria, if it needs food. I wouldn't dump a shrimp or a fish into the tank. The first is overkill with a lot of extra nutrients, and the second can bring diseases, and be hard to catch.

[PRDubois]

You can clean the sand by putting it in 5 gal bucket
Flush with garden hose mixing with your hand till the water runs clear
When water rusn clear just pour off as much of the water as you can.

[Mrbowdeadly]

Basa, yes I am using ro/di water. I have some more rock, I will add it to the tank. I am trying to get the SG up slowly without flying past what I need and having to remove saltwater and add fresh. I have it up to 1.022 this morning, using a coral life needle hydrometer to test. I will get the other test kits for mag alk and cal. I am using compact flo's. Thanks for the help.

Bertoni, I started the fish food last night per your recommendation. Just a pinch of flakes once a day?? The rock and the water got real cold, but I was hoping that the new live sand I introduced would have the bacteria?? Thanks for your continued support.

Dubois, I put in Carib sea live sand and it said specifically not to rinse it, due to the bacteria it has in the bag. Were I using other sand, I am sure your idea would have been helpful. Thank you.


Jason

[Mrbowdeadly]

PS, I have been reading waterkeepers thread. Kinda keeping along with where I am chronologically. I think my real question that has been answered was whether or not I needed to jump start the process. Waterkeepers thread was super informative, but didn't address my particular question. Thankfully you and bertoni have.

Jason

[BASA]

Alright!

I used a Hydrometer when I started my tank, my friend kept telling me to get a refractometer because it is hard to get a consistent accurate reading from the hydrometer. One day he brings over his refractometer and we did a little test... long story short he was right . They are hard as hell to get an accurate consistent reading.

I found a refractometer on ebay for 20 buck... works great!

[Mrbowdeadly]

Ok, will do on the refractometer.

[Mrbowdeadly]

Ok, been adding the fish food every day now. The rocks are starting to get some algae on them that is purplish and has bubbles. To be expected?

Anyhow, I did an ammonia test today and got nothing. Starting to worry that the older test kit I got with the tank may not be working properly?

Thanks for any replies,
Jason

[bertoni]

The kit might have failed, but ammonia kits typically measure ammonia in everything when they fail. A second opinion might be useful, though.