My 55g Coldwater Aquarium [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

gabew

12/12/2010, 04:24 PM

Well we did some more work on the stand this weekend. We cut, reinforced, and attached the bottom piece that will be the floor of the sump area. Then we cut and attached the piece that goes under the tank. We cut the two main front doors. We added the corner supports to join the back and sides. And finally we made the frame that will support the canopy and add room for pluming and an overflow box. All that now leaves are the side doors, the trim which will allow me to attach the double glass, the canopy, and finally the varnish.

It is a slow process but I am hoping we can have the thing finished, disassembled, and reassembled inside by either next week end or the weekend after that.

Once that is all done we can start with the more technical and interesting pluming and equipment installation (I can see how boring this thread must be right now :sleep:). Once all that is done, water! :bounce1:

Well here is a good weekends work.

The stand now with floors can support the tank
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3387/standwithfloors.jpg

These are the pieces that will end up being the main doors
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9079/standwithdoors.jpg

The corner supports to keep the plywood together
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5899/cornerclosesupportup.jpg

And the canopy support
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8810/tankwithtopframe.jpg

Thanks for looking any advice or comments welcomed

Agu

12/12/2010, 06:25 PM

coolwaves

12/12/2010, 08:44 PM

The few coldwater tanks I've read about used very thick (1") acrylic tanks to prevent condensation.

I don'see how trying to retrofit double paned insulated glass is going to work. It's not designed for that harsh environment.

Another option might be "hurricane glass" that has a plastic membrane between two sheets of glass. Possibly the membrane would be enough of a thermal break ?

personally, not the method i would prefer, but (when done right) it does work well by many veritable accounts

gabew, i didn't read very far back, so sorry if you've already mentioned it, but have you settled on a particular chiller? what will be your target temp range?

gabew

12/12/2010, 09:16 PM

Like I said before condensation will be an issue. However I am fairly confident that double glass will provide enough insulation to at least reduce this effect. For example the windows around my house are double pained and they don't fog up even when it is in the teens out. In February (the coldest the water will get) the dew point (the temperature at which condensation begins) is only averaging 16 degrees. Then in August (when the water is warmest) the dew point is averaging 61 degrees. So as far as I can tell the dew point fortunately always stays below the temperature of the tank, however that is average dew point so there will most likely be times when condensation forms, but not always.

As for chiller I am hoping THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150506003953&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) will provide enough cooling. And for temp I want to try to replicate water temperatures around here (Boston Massachusetts area). Which means a temperature range from 68 degrees in August down to 36 degrees in February, and like I said earlier this is above the dew point.

coolwaves

12/14/2010, 01:02 PM

ah... cool, another east coast set-up. looking forward to seeing it come together.

gabew

12/14/2010, 06:02 PM

ah... cool, another east coast set-up. looking forward to seeing it come together.

Thanks Coolwaves. Though there are diffidently not many coldwater tanks out there, the numbers are slowly growing. I am hoping these types of aquariums will begin to gain in popularity, and the myth that all coldwater tanks are just a pile of barnacley rocks and a few lobsters will start to disappear. These tanks can be beautiful and easy to care for as reef tanks.

gabew

12/20/2010, 07:05 PM

Well did some more work this weekend and today. We cut the side doors and started applying the stain. I went with stain over paint because I like the wood look and I also think it will go better with the old house. I had to do the painting inside because it is too cold outside. This means that the pieces will be right where they seed to be when it comes reassembly time. All we have to do after this is cut the last small pieces that will frame the tank and allow the attachment of the second layer of glass. The canopy will have to wait until I get the lights though.

Here are some pics of the staining process

The stuff I'm using
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/139/paintcan.jpg

Here is my test piece to see how it will look. You can see the difference from nothing, to one coat, to two coats.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/746/painttest.jpg

Here are the pieces now painted and almost dry. I love how nice they turned out. You can see how much this color matches the house by the floors and the trim, the doors, windows, door frames, window frames, and even some walls are this same color, so the tank will fit right in.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5461/paintjobi.jpg

huig

12/21/2010, 11:01 AM

Indeed coldwater setups are scarce. I have 2 tanks, one North sea and one Mediterranean tank (some animals are over 12 years old)

A few tips to avoid adding unnecessary heat to the system.
-use propeller pumps
-skimmer with low wattage pump (eg ATI BM200)
-I use an internal sump (so I can use a nanostream as return pump with 4500 lph!)
-use LED lights

gabew

12/21/2010, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the advice I am currently doing all of those things except using LED lights. I wanted to but they are very expensive, I was going instead to use 4 2ft power compact fluorescent lights. However since coldwater tanks don't need much light i could possibly use a dimmer cheaper LED fixture. I posted a thread about making your own cheap LED fixtures using cheap LED flashlights, you can see the thread HERE (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18079448#post18079448).

huig

12/21/2010, 01:01 PM

I DIYed the LEDs on my Mediterranean tank.

I used 2 pin fixtures and LED spotlights
the fixtures cost 2 € a piece and the LED spotlight (2.4 Watt) cost 10 € a piece.

On the 220 cm long tank 4 are installed that was only 48 € (I guess 60 $) to make. So over here (Belgium) even cheaper than power compact lighting.

gabew

12/21/2010, 05:54 PM

Cool great this was the kind of thing I was looking to use. I searched "LED spotlight" on eBay and got a huge range of things, any suggestions.

huig

12/22/2010, 10:38 AM

I have Philips xq9903 that has 48 LED in 1 spot it is 6400K but appears much whiter, and a few 1 Watt bleu decoLED from Philips
http://www.xqlite.nl/led_series.html
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com

Both types cost about 10 € a piece over here

But don't forget these are for 230 V

gabew

12/22/2010, 12:37 PM

ok thanks I'll check those out.

gabew

12/22/2010, 06:52 PM

I've been looking at cheaper LED fixtures and I was wondering if the Marineland Double Bright LED system would be enough for a cold water tank. It's not for corals but the 36" model right in my price range and since coldwater tanks don't need so much light it looks perfect. Will it be enough?

gabew

12/25/2010, 07:36 PM

First off I would like to say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all you reefers out there.

Now this is my biggest update so far since I have got a ton don the past few days. I finished the first coat of paint on everything and then started to disassemble the whole thing. It was a lot of work, even in pieces, getting everything inside. Then reassembling it was pretty hard work to. But inside where it was nice and warm I managed to get the frame back up then attach back and side facing the wall. The front and side facing the room need a second coat of paint before they can go up. I will still need to level the whole ting out as the floor of this house is really slanted. But I still am very very happy to finally see stuff inside and in place.

Here is the stand with all the sides removed. We then took the sides inside. Did I mention it was really hard getting the big pieces like the back up the stairs (yes the tank is upstairs but it is right over a wall so it shouldn't fall through the floor.)
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2144/standnosides.jpg

We could then disassemble the frame and brang those pieces upstairs.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8907/standdissassembeled.jpg

Here is everything upstairs waiting to be assembled.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4531/piecesinroom.jpg.

Finally some building not destroying! Here is the frame reassembled. Makes a nice workbench.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9265/standnosidesinroom.jpg

Now with the two sides facing the walls.
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/6154/standtwosidesinroom.jpg

And finally I can start adding some equipment! The top is all tools and such but the bottom now has some equipment including the 20 gallon (I think?) sump and the skimmer, as well as some miscellaneous other equipment. I'm really happy that everything fits perfectly, the tank in the room, the sump in the tank, and the skimmer in the sump. I can't wait to see it continue to see it come together.
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1111/standtwosidesinroomequi.jpg

gabew

12/27/2010, 04:28 PM

Well I've started the next phase of the design, pluming. We had a huge blizzard here, around 16" of snow overnight, so I spent a good chunk of the day researching and drawing my plan with the help of Google sketch up. I ended up with something like this. Any advice, comments, problems, and suggestions are welcomed, this is just my idea and I can easily change it.
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6647/fishtankdisignplumming.jpg

drukkosz

12/27/2010, 05:54 PM

thats pretty impresive :)good luck with the biuld

gabew

12/27/2010, 06:32 PM

Thanks man!
It may not be a 1000gallon+ wrap-around tank but I still think it will turn out great.

gabew

12/28/2010, 07:03 PM

Well I got a bit more work done today. I went to my local hardware store to get the plexy glass for my sump cut, wanted to get acrylic but they didn't have any, oh well it works. After that I went to Lowes and got a bunch of stuff. Got a lot of pluming supplies, pvp pipes, elbows, Ts, 45drgree bends, pvc cement etc. Then I went to look for some silicone. I was a bit worried that I wouldn't get the right silicone. A while back the bottom panel of a old tank broke. Thinking I might end up needing it and not wanting to throw it away, I bought a new pane and put it in place. Tuns out I used the wrong silicone so now that tank is pretty much useless. Well this time I was lucky. I was poking through the silicone shelf and one of the workers asked me what I was working on. I said "Oh just an aquarium" rather simply. They replied "Cool! What you need?" I said "Some sort of silicone with no chemicals or stuff that will kill the fish, do you have any suggestions?" The worker walked over to another shelf and handed me a little tube of silicone and said "Like this?" I read the label and it said "Clear Silicone, Aquarium Safe" Well what do you know "Perfect! Thanks!" I said to the worker. No more worries about killing my fish with bad silicone. :D

I had also been applying the second coat of paint to the plywood a few days ago. With that dry I was able to attach the fount and side doors. Here is a pic as of now, imagine a tank in the middle not a jumble of tools and other junk.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1981/standinroomwithdoors.jpg

With all the sides attached I was able to apply the insulation to the inside of the stand with the help of some black plastic and my staple gun. I am only insulating the sump area, there is going to be a lot of exposed water in there that I want to keep cold. The tank itself gets 2" of Styrofoam to keep it cool. Here is a pic of the final insulated stand.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4585/standinroomwithdoorsope.jpg

Like I said earlier got a bunch of pluming at Lowes today. Here is everything I think I will need to plump this aquarium, I am hoping to do that tomorrow.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/894/pvcsupplies.jpg

Finally here is everything I will need to turn an old 20gallon tank into a sump. Including my special "aquarium safe" silicone. Again hoping to do that tomorrow too.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2383/sumpglass.jpg

verres

12/30/2010, 03:30 PM

gabew

12/30/2010, 04:53 PM

Hi Gabe,

My bf and I are just beginning to build a cold water system here in Oregon. We're hunting for a tank (probably 1" acrylic) - but I'm very interested in your DIY (double paned glass) approach. Looks like you're in the process of construction now - can you share any of your brainstorming ideas so far? We've considered lining a pre-bought glass tank with acrylic sheets too, but wasn't sure it would work (afraid that something would build up between the glass/acrylic and make it foggy or distracting).

thanks,
Chris

First I would like to say welcome to reef central (sorry i don't know how to do the fancy animation thingy :wildone:)

I think that the main reason people complain of major condensation is because they keep their tanks at the same temperature year round. Most people with coldwater tanks keep them at around 50-60 degrees. Now this is a good average but the water is actually warmer than that in the summer.

Like I said in a previous post the dew point (temperature at which water condensates) is normally above the temperature of the water naturally. I'm not positive if this is just here but I think it would make sense to be true most places. So that means that as long as you keep the tank the temperature of the water it should stay fog free most of the time. Now that's not to say it will never fog, there will be very humid days, someone might take a shower, etc. But 90% of the time your tank should stay fine. Now this is all my theory so don't take my word for it. It is really easy to go online and find monthly water temperatures and dew points for were you live to check to see if my theory holds true.

I also think that mimicking natural temperature fluctuations for your area will be better for your animals. It will make it easier to acclimate animals all year round. And in certain species it also may stimulate natural cycles like breading and hibernation. I think it is important to make your tank as similar to nature as possible to relive stress on the animals. It may also be good to replicate the changing daylight times for your area too. That can easily be done with a good timer.

The problem with keeping your tank natural temperatures is that it will need to get COLD. Again go online to see how cold it gets there in Oregon but here in Massachusetts the tank will need to get all the way down to 36 degrees to stay natural. If you want to cheat a bit and keep the tank a bit warmer during the winter that is fine. Having the tank warmer than nature will not effect fogging. Just when it is too cold will problems start. You will still need to get a bigger chiller however.

To keep it easy on the chiller you will need to INSULATE. On my tank I am insulating the whole sump area and adding 2" Styrofoam on the sides and back of the tank. You may have to cover the sides of the tank though. It won't look as open but it will make it so much easier on your chiller. This will also make it easier for the DIY double paining. I'm not sure how you could do double paining on tree sides of a tank. You would end up with something like a "tank inside a tank" type thing. What I am doing for the double paining is I am adding 2" of wood bordering the tank. In the photos to come in my next update you will be able to see that the doors do not come all the way to the edge of the tank. This will allow for that 2" border of attached wood. That is also partially why I had to add that frame on the top of the tank. Not only does that allow for pipes but it allows for something for the border to attach to at the top, it attaches directly to the horizontal support on the bottom. The doors are all made of 3/4" plywood, mostly scraps from the sides and back. The border however will be only 1/2" so when the glass is in place it will not stick out from the face of the front. I want to get that bit cut and attached very soon so you will be able to see what I mean.

One thing I think about the double paining is that you will probably want it all year to reduce fogging. The double paining does not only act as insulation but also for a fog reduction. For example say the tank is 50 degrees, it is humid today so the dew point is 55 degrees. With no double paining the tank would fog, however if you add double paining say the outside piece of glass is 10 degrees warmer than the inside. Therefore the outside pain is 60 degrees and there is no fogging, YAY.

That is all I have to say on the matter at the moment. I am by no means a professional, this is all my theory. I would talk to other people with coldwater tanks and get more info if I were you.

It is great to see more people getting coldwater tanks. It was awesome to be able to help you with yours. Good luck!

gabew

12/30/2010, 05:30 PM

As promised here is a small update. I have not done much, the big thing was get the tank on the stand. With that on I attached the top frame. I then drilled the holes for the piping. I couldn't do much of the piping because I realized I would need the return pump, chiller, and overflow box. Hopefully I will be getting those very soon. I was able to do the return piping that goes back to the tank and see how the Styrofoam fits.

Here is the tank now in the stand. Fits nicely. You can see what I was talking about with the 2" space for the double paining.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5403/tankinroom.jpg

And here is the bit of piping I managed to do. Same thing on the other side.
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/120/returnpiping.jpg

norskfisk

12/31/2010, 08:01 AM

gabew

12/31/2010, 05:01 PM

Double paneing a regular glass tank should be easy. This is how I'll do it in my current project:

1. I use an all glass tank without any framing.
2. Get a 4mm glass sheet from a local glass shop. Same size as front of tank.
3. Get 10mm square tubing, from styrene, from a hobby store. Brand: "Evergreen scale models" (WA). This is as a spacer between panes.
4. Use a needle to make holes in one of the tube lengths on the side facing into the void.
5. Glue tubes to tank (5mm inside glass edge), with caulking glue.
6. Glue glass sheet on, same way.
7. Seal around in the 10mm x 5mm room with caulking. Except one opening at the end of the tube with needle holes.
8. Wait for all to dry.
9. Fill silica gel (drying agent) into tube with needle holes. Silica gel is sold in advanced aquarium stores for use with ozone (air dryer).
10. Seal opening with caulking and let dry.

The space between the sheets will now stay completely dry. No mist in there. You get enough insulation to prevent sweating outside.

Thanks Jon
I didn't think of adding the silica gel that's a good idea, I'll diffidently incorporate that.

atreis

01/01/2011, 08:33 AM

gabew

01/01/2011, 11:43 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if you used an acrylic tank, you wouldn't need to double-pane the front. The naturally lower conductance of the acrylic would be enough to not produce condensation.

I think that acrylic would work, but it would just have to be quite thick to have the same insulation as double paining. Maybe an inch, not sure. It would work just as good and it would be the same amount of work as double paining. So I don't think it matters either way. Perhaps thick acrylic would be easier if you wanted your tank to be viewable from several sides.

gabew

01/03/2011, 06:13 PM

I did some more work the past few days. I finished building the sump, and put that in the tank. I managed the level the whole tank out (it took up to 1" of extra wood under some of the legs to do it.) I also did the pluming that will put water in the sump from the overflow. And finally I ordered my first equipment, the chiller!!!:lol2: It should be coming in the next few days!

Here is a pic of the final sump setup. The chamber on the left is the refugium, in the middle is the space for the simmer and other equipment, and the right is for the return pump.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5482/finishedsump.jpg

And the sump under in the stand
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/162/finishedsumpintank.jpg

Here is the corner that I had to add the most wood to to level it. It all ended up being very nice and level in the end though.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9979/leveling.jpg

Finally here is the pluming I did today. It comes from the overflow and goes into either the skimmer area or refugium depending on how the valve is. This should let me control the amount of flow through the refugium. And that other bit of pipe sticking down goes up to the return to the tank. I will do some more with that when I get the chiller.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5071/downpluming.jpg

Anthonius

01/03/2011, 08:14 PM

does hat silicone has a mildew inhibitor? if so avoid using it anywhere you plan on having water touching... the stuff will poison your tank. my local home depot sells the aquarium silicone.

gabew

01/04/2011, 04:49 PM

does hat silicone has a mildew inhibitor? if so avoid using it anywhere you plan on having water touching... the stuff will poison your tank. my local home depot sells the aquarium silicone.

Yes I made sure to get silicone that said "Aquarium Safe." I have already ruined one tank by repairing it with "bad" silicone.

gabew

01/09/2011, 08:02 PM

Guess what came in a big heavy box Friday..........
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9049/chillerbox.jpg

THE CHILLER :celeb1:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8562/chilleroutofbox.jpg

This weekend I was able to set that whole system up. I could do a lot more pluming with the chiller but I still need to wait until I get the overflow and the return pump to finish it, hoping to get those next week along with the lighting (ended up going with Marineland Double Bright LED), and the powerheads and wave maker. Here is the pluming I have so far.
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8978/chillerplummed.jpg

I was having a few problems with the insulation. There was a lot of dust forming. Fixing that was no problem with mighty duck tape :lmao: I also had to remove the insulation on the doors for a few reasons. It was getting in the way of the doors opening and closing. I need some wood surface to mount electrical on and the doors are the most convenient. And also the chiller will blow the warm air right at the doors so I actually don't want that to be insulated. With the insulation on the doors off I was able to attach the Ranco temperature controller for the chiller. It looks awesome, it has a massive range of -30 degrees F to 220 degrees F, the probe is long and waterproof, it is really easy to set, and according to the seller it works perfectly with the chiller (bought the chiller and controller from the same guy). Here is it installed on the door.
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3470/tempcontroler.jpg

Finally I have some equipment installed to make this build somewhat interesting. :D

chimmike

01/10/2011, 08:12 AM

iwishtofish

01/10/2011, 09:25 AM

Fun thread! We used to go to Woodman's all the time when I lived 'round there...

Enough room in your sump for backflow?

norskfisk

01/10/2011, 03:20 PM

Are you going to have a 1/2 HP chiller in a cabinet? It gives off 2000 Watts. What are you roasting :-D?

Seriously, it should be placed on the floor in a room that is well ventilated and with open space both in front and behind. Looks very small for a 1/2 HP...

gabew

01/10/2011, 04:09 PM

gotta tell you, I'm not entirely fond of the stand with the forces resting squarely on the legs, more for the sake of the tank itself. Usually you want the entire base spreading the weight evenly through more area than just the legs.

Glad it see it's coming along though.

Do you think this may be a problem? I am not sure how I could fix this at this point in the project. There are a total of 8 legs touching the ground. If you are saying this might be a big problem like the tank could dent the floor or fall over or something I would have to take a lot down to change it but if it is only a minor problem I think I will have to live with it. Good to know on future builds though.

Fun thread! We used to go to Woodman's all the time when I lived 'round there...

Enough room in your sump for backflow?

Thanks! I love Woodman's I live really near there

And in the sump I think it should be fine. I am going to drill the holes in the return right bellow the waterline to try to reduce backflow.

Are you going to have a 1/2 HP chiller in a cabinet? It gives off 2000 Watts. What are you roasting :-D?

Seriously, it should be placed on the floor in a room that is well ventilated and with open space both in front and behind. Looks very small for a 1/2 HP...

I was going to add some piping and stuff to "suck" all the hot air away and out of the stand. If you think that will not be enough though I could pretty easily put it outside the stand with some flex tubing. Do you think the would be best? Seeing the size of its fan I may agree. The chiller its self is like 17L x 12H x 8W is that really small?

norskfisk

01/11/2011, 04:52 AM

I was going to add some piping and stuff to "suck" all the hot air away and out of the stand. If you think that will not be enough though I could pretty easily put it outside the stand with some flex tubing. Do you think the would be best? Seeing the size of its fan I may agree. The chiller its self is like 17L x 12H x 8W is that really small?

It is a must to have it outside the stand. At best it will be hopelessly inefficient inside. What is the point in even insulating the stand when it is boiling hot in there? At worst it will ruin itself and other things.

It is smaller than the ones I have seen, but compact designs are possible.

gabew

01/11/2011, 06:06 AM

It is a must to have it outside the stand. At best it will be hopelessly inefficient inside. What is the point in even insulating the stand when it is boiling hot in there? At worst it will ruin itself and other things.

It is smaller than the ones I have seen, but compact designs are possible.

I'll diffidently put it outside the stand then thanks.

rickster66

01/11/2011, 07:52 AM

Gabe,
Nice build. Looking forward to seeing it in action.

A quick fix to spreading the weight of your stand is to cut off 1 3/4" from all eight legs and then add a rectangular frame made of 2x4's that runs under all eight legs. This only works if you have the length available. Worst case scenario is that the stand is raised up 1 3/4" if you can't cut off any leg length.

gabew

01/11/2011, 08:22 PM

iwishtofish

01/16/2011, 10:17 AM

Gabe, any progress?

muttley000

01/16/2011, 10:45 AM

Not sure how I have missed this thread for so long? This is somehting I have always thought about doing in my basement, where the air temperature is quite cool in the winter and condensation would not be a problem. Looking forward to the progress. One question, is there different or special dosing requirements, etc required for cold water organisms?

gabew

01/16/2011, 12:51 PM

Gabe, any progress?

Not too much progress right now. I did order lots more equipment on Wednesday. The powerheads, the wave maker, the return pump, the overflow box, and the lights. These should come Tuesday or Wednesday. I have been really busy this weekend but next weekend I am hoping to add the hood and double paining to the stand as well as adding the 2x4 frame under the legs as suggested. I will also be able to do some more pluming with the return pump and overflow box. I should be getting some more PVC to move the chiller outside the stand too.

One question, is there different or special dosing requirements, etc required for cold water organisms?

I am not sure as of the moment but I will try to do some experiments soon. I am going to use water from a beach near my house foe water changes. I am hoping this will provide all the necessary trace elements as well as various microscopic organisms. I will do lots of tests on the water around here too to see what the parameters are I will want to replicate.

Aristarchus

01/16/2011, 12:53 PM

gabew

01/16/2011, 06:11 PM

One thing to be careful of is the size of your acrylic baffles in the sump. The acrylic will absorb a small amount of the water over time and expand a bit. Hopefully you left a small gap in between the baffles and the glass.. just a heads up, I've seen it crack a tank in the past and it's a bad situation

Thanks for the heads up. I am using plexy glass not acrylic but they still have room to expand I hope. How much might they expand there is probable 1/16" on all sides is that enough?

gabew

01/17/2011, 09:01 PM

Well the second big equipment order came in today :celeb1:
Now I have my lights, powerheads, wavemaker, return pump, and overflow!
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1759/petsolutionsbox1.jpg

LET THERE BE LIGHT:dance:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8332/lightbelow.jpg

I got the Marineland Double Bright LED fixture and I love it. It is plenty bright and very cool.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1225/lightabove.jpg

Here is my return pump in the sump. Now that I have this I can finish the return pluming. I am hoping to do that tomorrow. I moved the chiller out of the stand so I will get that tubing.
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7246/returnpump.jpg

I also set up the overflow box. With that I will be able to finish the pluming.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2588/overflowbox.jpg

I am going to do a lot more tomorrow. I am hoping to finish all the pluming now that i have the return pump and overflow box. I am also hoping to set up the powerheads and wavemaker, the timer for the lights, the chiller temperature controller, as well as a bunch more electrical stuff.

My next step is to go on BRS and buy the skimmer, carbon/GFO reactors, and the ATO system. For those of you who have been following this and noticed I already had a skimmer a while back here is the story... I had this old skimmer sitting in my garage that I was going to use. It was a seaclone 150 from my LFS so I thought is would work fine. Did some more research and turns out the seaclone is a pile of junk. So I old it and now I think I am going to go with a Octopus 4" NW skimmer, much better. So anyway my next step would be to get all that. I also need to set up my RO/DI system. Hoping to get the BRS stuff next week and not sure when for the RO/DI maybe this week maybe next.

It is coming along a lot faster now and I am really happy

iwishtofish

01/18/2011, 12:10 AM

gabew

01/18/2011, 08:32 AM

Progress! :) I wish I could say as much! (Well, I'm getting there...)

Are most of the animals in your setup going to be found in deeper-water than those typically found in most reef tanks? How dependent are they on photosynthesis? Sorry if you addressed this already - it is late and I'm too tired to look! :)

Do cold-water tanks experience the same difficulties from phosphates that tropical coral tanks do?

I'm asking these questions because most of the equipment you are compiling is pretty typical for tropical tanks.

Yes progress!
I don't think most of the animals around here are as dependent on photosynthesis as those in the tropics. Most photosynthetic corals are found in less than 10 feet or so of water, whereas I will be able to collect animals from as deep as 60 feet (that is as far as my current diver certification lest me go). Also in the tropics the water is crystal clear where here it can get pretty murky. The truth is though that coldwater tanks are a very unexplored area. There are lots of unknowns. All I can do right now is make educated guesses based on my experience. Most of this will be a "learn as you go" type thing. Learning from your mistakes and the mistakes of others. Hopefully as coldwater tanks become more popular more information will become available but right now there is not much I know.

Right now I am choosing equipment based on what a reef tank would need. The only differences being temperature and lighting. Are cold water tanks at all similar to tropical tanks? I have no idea. Hopefully though through the process I will learn the dos and don'ts of coldwater tanks and I will be able to share my experience with others willing to try coldwater tanks for themselves.

spamreefnew

01/18/2011, 08:46 AM

I have kept some crabs,hermits,mummichogs,and shrimp alive from RI for about a year in a 10 gallon without a skimmer. you should be fine...

iwishtofish

01/18/2011, 09:47 AM

I think it should be a fun experiment! I'm also curious to see how that chiller affects your electric bill! At least the lights shouldn't have much impact, nor should a heater...

gabew

01/18/2011, 04:20 PM

I have kept some crabs,hermits,mummichogs,and shrimp alive from RI for about a year in a 10 gallon without a skimmer. you should be fine...

Well then I think I should be fine!

I think it should be a fun experiment! I'm also curious to see how that chiller affects your electric bill! At least the lights shouldn't have much impact, nor should a heater...

Yes there are trade offs, like you said lighting goes down but cooling goes up. Oh well, aquariums always crank up the electric bill there is no avoiding it! :lol:

huig

01/20/2011, 09:41 AM

The truth is though that coldwater tanks are a very unexplored area. There are lots of unknowns.

Well on this side of the pond there are actually quite a FEW coldwater enthusiasts. There are several subsections on local fora that are dedicated to coldwater/temperate systems. Even a French forum exlusively on coldwater. Luckily I speak 5 languages.

On our local forum there are about 20 interested in coldwater systems. We organise collecting/diving/seining trips on a regular basis.

Now add some water!

norskfisk

01/20/2011, 03:04 PM

Huig,

Could you post a list of links to french and dutch speaking sites? I don't speak the languages, but I look at pictures and use google translate! Very interesting!

huig

01/21/2011, 04:59 AM

I think you need to register for all these fora to be able to see pics.
http://zeewaterforum.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?34-Noordzee-en-Koud-Zeewater-Forum

and links to my 2 coldwatertanks on this forum:
http://zeewaterforum.info/forums/showthread.php?79858-Noordzee-in-de-tuin
http://zeewaterforum.info/forums/showthread.php?76561-mijn-middellands-zeeaquarium

http://forum.aquariterraneen.fr/index.php?PHPSESSID=efb8ee5ebe908c216f5bcd49b45559ee
http://www.riffaquaristik.at/forum/index.php?page=Board&boardID=25
http://www.meerwasserforum.com/board.php?boardid=15&sid=e2fe1dbec87a4e6c9444242d6115c5ab
http://www.acquaportal.it/ARTICOLI/MadeInItaly/AcquariMarino/mediterraneo_pietro/default.asp
http://www.natureaquarium.it/medit/uno.htm
http://www.aiam.info/05/index.htm
http://www.guba-mittelmeeraquarium.at/
http://www.naturamediterraneo.com/forum/default.asp?CAT_ID=13
http://www.drpez.com/drcol159.htm

gabew

01/21/2011, 09:22 AM

Wow thanks! I speak a bit of french so those french links look great. I'll look through those.

coolwaves

01/21/2011, 01:53 PM

Wow thanks! I speak a bit of french so those french links look great. I'll look through those.

cool, if you find something really awesome please share with us here.

huig

01/24/2011, 09:11 AM

I just started a thread about my coldwatertank...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18225537&posted=1#post18225537

gabew

01/24/2011, 03:49 PM

I just started a thread about my coldwatertank...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18225537&posted=1#post18225537

Yay English!
Man that tank is AMAZING that is exactly the type of thing I want to replicate around here. Thanks a ton :bounce1:

gabew

01/24/2011, 07:10 PM

Well I managed to do a bit more work on the tank over the weekend. First off as suggested I wanted to get the 2x4 reinforcements under the legs before I added too much more stuff. I was not able to cut the bottoms of the legs off so I just put the 2x4s under the legs. Everything is still level and it looks fine.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2452/2x4sunderlegs.jpg

I could also do a bunch of the electrical stuff. I decided i didn't like everything on the doors so I put some boards on the back over the insulation and put everything there. It all turned out great. everything is mounted and set. I might change or move a few things around later but for now it is good.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1917/electricals.jpg

I took the tank off the stand so I could put on the black plastic background and do the insulation. Everything worked out nice. I like the background, not perfect, but its black, uniform, inconspicuous, good enough. The Insulation also went well. I had t cut it to go around some stuff like the overflow and piping. I'm really not sure how much impact it will have but might as well.
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3631/tankwitbackround.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7108/insulation.jpg

Finally I just ordered a bunch more stuff from BRS. Octopus 4" Pinwheel skimmer, auto top off system, and then the carbon/GFO reactor with media. Can't wait to get that. This may be my last big order. Not too much more to get other than small bits and pieces.

IDrawFish

01/24/2011, 08:13 PM

Looking good, I've kept cold water sound (Long Island Sound) tanks from things I've collected here in CT, they're fun and different and not all that difficult to keep. My friends never seemed as entertained by them as my other projects but still neat to see your local livestock rather than something across the country/world. Can't wait to see it finished/stocked.

IDrawFish

01/24/2011, 08:15 PM

almost forgot to ask I don't know if you've already posted it but anything in particular you're planning on keeping?

huig

01/25/2011, 07:44 AM

Thanks!
Do you already know what fish you will keep?

BTW if you check the albums in my profile there are more pics of my other tanks as well, one is Mediterranean tank I keep it between 14°C and 25 °C.

gabew

01/25/2011, 05:00 PM

almost forgot to ask I don't know if you've already posted it but anything in particular you're planning on keeping?

I'm not really sure on what kinds of stuff I am going to keep. Whatever I can find that fits in the tank, crabs, hermit crabs, shrimp, anemones, sponges, truncates, starfish, clams, mussels, nudibranchs, hydroids, tube worms, algae, seaweed, all sorts of fish, really whatever I can find diving. One thing I have found is that I am much more fascinated with all those little invertebrates than the big fish and corals. The little crabs, shrimps, and other crustaceans that crawl over the rocks. The watching little polyps grow by a millimeter a week. Those are the kinds of things I find I can watch for hours. I remember the first time I put a strand of algae in a drop of water under my microscope and being amazed by the millions of tiny creatures that called that filament home. You can look at the same rock for an hour and still be able to find hundreds more tiny critters you never new you had in the tank. The massive biodiversity, the tiny ecosystems. That is one of the major reasons I chose a coldwater tank, it is so much easier to get those in a coldwater tank that a reef tank.

Thanks!
Do you already know what fish you will keep?

BTW if you check the albums in my profile there are more pics of my other tanks as well, one is Mediterranean tank I keep it between 14°C and 25 °C.

Again AMAZING tanks. Its photos like those that make me want to work a hundred times faster to finish my tank.

I guess I only have one big question. I see that you also have a reef tank so you are perfect to ask but if anyone else out there has a coldwater and reef tank this question is for you too. There is endless information out there on how to keep a reef tank. but not so much on coldwater. So my question is, are there any differences between reef and coldwater tanks other than temperature? Amount of light? Suggested types of filtration? Dosing and supplements? Chemical levels? Feeding? Right now I am kind of blindly assuming that a coldwater tank is like a cold reef tank with less light. Really any advice would help.

huig

01/26/2011, 02:25 AM

There are very few coldwater inverts that need light, but I like algae so for the light is for the algae. So in comparison you can do with less light than compared to a tropical system.

I use exactly the same set-up for all my tanks cold or tropical except I don' t use phosfate removers in the coldwater systems.
So basically an internal sump with a protein skimmer and circulation (with streams)
And for the tropical tanks heaters. That is it no more no less!

Because my tropical tank sits in direct sunlight I worked around temperature issues in exactly the same manner as for the cold systems.

I feed a little different, but that is not due to the temperature but to the type of fish. The fish in my tropical system are fed up to 8 times a day. My coldwater fish are all predatory fish so they are fed only once a day with 2 days fasting per week.

The only thing missing from your tank is the water!

gabew

01/26/2011, 06:11 AM

Great thanks!
One more question though. You say you do not use phosphate removers. Is that because you just don't bother to or is there a reason. I have already just ordered a BRS dual reactor and it was going to be for carbon and GFO. Do you think I don't want the GFO?

huig

01/26/2011, 06:46 AM

iwishtofish

01/26/2011, 07:02 AM

Almost water time! :)

I know you've already gone through the motions once, so I was hesitant to mention this - I think the 2x4 frame on the bottom is really only effective if the 2x4s are narrow side up/down when they are fastened together. They have very little flex that way, and can take up some slack for a slightly uneven, flexible floor. If you have to leave them as is, you might want to at least shim them at all gaps to minimize flexing.

It is going to be fascinating to watch when you stock this tank. You may not have a tank full of little tiny critters for long, if you end up putting the right predators in there! I'm pretty sure there will never be a boring moment! I wonder if cold water animals need as specific care with acclimation as tropical animals? I'm sure there are some resources out there - maybe even websites specific to this facet of the aquarium hobby.

I was thinking (uh oh) about your chiller bill, and that it would be neat if you could somehow harness the cold weather of an Ipswich winter to help cool your tank....probably a complicated thing...

Gabe, do you think the foam would be more effective as an insulator if the doubled pieces were coupled with some kind of adhesive?

gabew

01/26/2011, 05:02 PM

I dont use the GFO for 2 reasons.
I remember reading somewhere sharks are very sensitive to ferric compounds. And I definetely don' t want to take any risks with my shark!
In summer the algae growth is enormous due to the natural sunlight so the PO4 is exported.

I don' t see why you wouldn't/couldn't use GFO in your tank.

Great thanks. I don't think I will be keeping any sharks in this 55gallon!

Almost water time! :)

I know you've already gone through the motions once, so I was hesitant to mention this - I think the 2x4 frame on the bottom is really only effective if the 2x4s are narrow side up/down when they are fastened together. They have very little flex that way, and can take up some slack for a slightly uneven, flexible floor. If you have to leave them as is, you might want to at least shim them at all gaps to minimize flexing.

It is going to be fascinating to watch when you stock this tank. You may not have a tank full of little tiny critters for long, if you end up putting the right predators in there! I'm pretty sure there will never be a boring moment! I wonder if cold water animals need as specific care with acclimation as tropical animals? I'm sure there are some resources out there - maybe even websites specific to this facet of the aquarium hobby.

I was thinking (uh oh) about your chiller bill, and that it would be neat if you could somehow harness the cold weather of an Ipswich winter to help cool your tank....probably a complicated thing...

Gabe, do you think the foam would be more effective as an insulator if the doubled pieces were coupled with some kind of adhesive?

I think I might stick with the 2x4s the way they are. This tank isn't really massive so I am not super worried. The 2x4s are pressure treated so they are a lot denser and stronger, not sure how much that helps though. Also the floor is not so muck uneven as just not very level. Thanks for the advice but I think I will take the risk. Again if you think it will be a huge problem tell me.

I think it will be awesome to stock the tank. And there will certainly be some predators. That's another reason I love coldwater. You get more of any ecosystem then you do with reefs. You do not mind so much when the bigger things eat the littler things that's natural!

Using the outside cold is actually something I considered. I did start THIS (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1934542) thread a while back on possibly putting a coil outside. It got really mixed reviews, some said it would no absolutely nothing, others said the pipes would freeze. I'm still not completely disregarding it though the tank is set up so the other side of the wall is outside. And hay it just got -5F here not so sure it would be inefficient at that temp!!!!

That may be a possibility. Right now they are pretty tightly squeezed against each other but if anyone thinks adhesive would be better that would be great.

huig

01/27/2011, 02:31 AM

You could set up a second tank outside and connect it to your tank inside, as it is nicer to look at another tank than looking at tubes.

gabew

01/27/2011, 08:10 AM

That gives me an idea. Perhaps I could set up a smaller tank outside (I have a few left over 29g tanks) and put a heater in that to keep it at the temp I wanted my tank to be than have water circulate between the two. That should eliminate the possibility of a freeze. Anyone think that may work?

huig

01/27/2011, 09:05 AM

No tank should ever be left over! :lol2:

Your indoor tank functions as a heater for the outdoor system.
You' d have to take into account the T° differences and the volume of the systems, unfortunately my knowledge about thermodynamics is very rusty.

It is always wise to use a heater as a back up (set it at 6 °C) in winter.

BTW. try and get some corynactis sp. I have some and these are wonderfull! They come in different colours some are fluorescent!

gabew

01/27/2011, 05:53 PM

Ohhhhh those corynactis are beautiful I will most certainly try to get some of those:bigeyes:

In the outside tank the heater would prevent the water from freezing. I'm not sure if I am oversimplifying this but I think it would work something like water flows from the tank then is cooled to the desired temperature by the cold. The heater would keep it from getting to cold. Of course this would be as well as a chiller, it would simply take some strain off it. Perhaps the water would first go through the outside tank, that would bring it down some of the way, then it would go through the chiller to cool it the rest of the way. I too am no expert in thermodynamics but that seems like it would work. Any experts feel free to chime in.

norskfisk

01/28/2011, 05:37 AM

Not worth the hazzle IMO.

But in theory it will work in the cold season, as long as the outside temperature is lower than the desired tank temperature. It will probably not be trivial to tune it into functioning well. You'll need fans over the water surface outside. There are various issues like it will work best on the cold days when you really want the heat inside the building. On days when you don't want to use the chiller inside (summer) it won't work at all.

I would not try to send the incoming water through the chiller because it is an open loop and air will get into it, so you want to keep it falling continously, and you don't want to fill the heat exchanger in the chiller with air.

gabew

01/28/2011, 06:04 AM

Yes I agree it would be a hassle. I was never seriously considering it unless I got reviews saying it would be worth it, which I was not expecting. I'll just have to live with the bill.

gabew

01/30/2011, 07:53 PM

Well this weekend I managed to build the hood/canopy. I designed is so it could be opened three ways, the front opens up, half opens up, and it all opens up. Its kinda hard to explain so here are some pics.

There is the hood closed. Still needs to be painted. (just a note for some reason the camera, maybe the flash, makes the background look WAY WORSE than it does in real life. All those wrinkles are almost unnoticeable)
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1494/standwithhood.jpg

First just the front can open up. This is good if you just need to put your hand in to say, feed or move something.
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5390/hoodfrountopen.jpg

Next just half can open up and fold back. This is good if you need to do a bit more and need a bit more wiggle room.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4141/hoodhalfopen.jpg

Finally the whole hood opens up and folds back. This is good if you need to do big things like replacing equipment.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3439/hoodfullopen.jpg

Now that I have the hood on all there is left to do construction wise is the double glass. I wanted to do that this weekend, but it turns out the LGS (Local Glass Store duh) is not open on weekends, so I'll have to run by there sometime this week. I am really almost done otherwise. I am hoping to do the final equipment bits and pieces along with the double glass next weekend. And that means water the weekend after that we can add water, yes I said WATER!!!

Apart from the hood I did some more work on equipment. I got the storage container for the ATO system. It is 5gallons and fits perfectly in the stand. I also FINALLY managed to get some of the work done on the chiller pluming. I got the vinyl tubing and got it to run where I wanted it. There was this one REALLY ANNOYING kink in the tubing, but I managed to fix that by squeezing a small piece of PVC around it to force it back into a circle. The vinyl and the PVC aren't a perfect match though. The inside diameter of the PVC is about an eight of an inch more than the outside diameter of the vinyl. I did manage to find some find some PVC pieces that matched the vinyl though. Those were threaded at the other end however. Then I realized that the some PVC pieces I used to adapt my threaded return pump to the 1" PVC matched the pieces that fit the vinyl. YAY so now I have a system to adapt vinyl to PVC, but the problem is I only had one of the threads to PVC pieces. But it also tuns out that in the bag of various pluming things my return pump came with there was a piece that matched the vinyl too. So I ended up having enough stuff to connect the vinyl to the return pump and return line back to the tank. So I pretty much just have the other ends of those tubes just sitting there next to the chiller until I can go back to Home Depot and get some more of the thread to PVC pieces. One other thing I decided to do with the tubing going to the chiller is because it runs under the stand and it is what is carrying my newly chiller water I insulated it.

So all in all a pretty productive weekend. I am also oping to get all my BRS stuff tomorrow :lol2: And like I said before if all goes smothly two weeks from now WATER :fish2:

iwishtofish

01/31/2011, 09:51 PM

Canopy looks great! A lot of hard work goes into these things, eh? Have you priced the glass yet? Are you just getting one piece for the front viewing pane?

gabew

02/01/2011, 06:11 AM

Thanks! I really like the way it turned out. I'm not sure on prices yet, hoping somewhere around $50-$60. It will just be one piece that will cover the front.

Also I got the BRS stuff yesterday!!!!! But my camera is not working so I'll try to post about it later today.

gabew

02/01/2011, 08:35 PM

Yay camera working! Time to give an update with all the new equipment.

Here is all the nice shiny new equipment ready to set up.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9812/picture008jq.jpg

Now I'm not totally finished setting up everything completely. So far I've really only put things roughly in place. Still reading through the instructions, finding out how to best set everything up. Her is an umm, full stand shot. I will continue to update as things get put in more final places. It is getting much messier, crampter, better! :fun4:
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/1475/picture020h.jpg

One little problem I had was that I was going to use the Maxi Jet 1200 that came with my now useless Seaclone but it had this little annoying fitting glued onto the output that would not let me attach it to the tubing for the reactor. I ended up just buying a new Maxi Jet. Actually may be better as I might end up selling the Seaclone on ebay or something and it would be worthless with no pump. I also just ordered what may be my final equipment order for this tank. It was really not much, some gloves (36degree water ain't fun), my algae scraper, a GFCI outlet, and my Maxi Jet. Not really sure why but I ended up buying a Maxi Jet utility pump not a regular Maxi Jet. No real reason, just a little better and a little more flow. Finally I am hoping to get the glass tomorrow. Everything is going rally smoothly, my goal of water in two weeks is looking good :bounce1:

iwishtofish

02/02/2011, 11:07 AM

Really nice stuff! Things are coming together nicely. I'm quite curious to see how you end up liking that skimmer. I may get a Reef Octopus for my 75g someday.

Always another order, or trip to the store, isn't there? :)

gabew

02/02/2011, 12:10 PM

Thanks i really like it all so far. And you are right there is always more stuff to get. This order is the last that I need before I can actually add water. Still plenty to get, upgrade, and spend!

huig

02/04/2011, 02:03 AM

Have you considered painting the back? It is very cheap to do and has a very slick result.
You could also consider self adhesive black foil (that is what I use)

iwishtofish

02/05/2011, 09:24 AM

Any news on the glass?

gabew

02/05/2011, 02:56 PM

Have you considered painting the back? It is very cheap to do and has a very slick result.
You could also consider self adhesive black foil (that is what I use)

I really like it how it is. Like I said the camera makes it look way worse but in person it is perfect. With rocks and all that stuff in there it will look perfect.

Any news on the glass?

Yep I went and got the glass yesterday. It is perfect. Also received the silica gel I bought online yesterday so I have everything I need to finish the glass, hoping to do that tomorrow. I also received my last bits of equipment so once I do the glass it is water time! There are only two other things left to do both of which are not mandatory to have before I add water. I need to upgrade the current very simple RO system I am using to a RO/DI system with a TDS meter, pressure gauge, and larger reservoir. Slightly more importantly but still not mandatory is the LED light for the refugium. Hoping to get all that from Rapid LED.

Almost there :dance:

gabew

02/07/2011, 07:06 PM

Well there is good news and there is bad news. The good news, there is progress! The bad news, not enough progress to call it finished.

First off I finally managed to finish the pluming for the chiller! :dance:
I went down to home depot and grabed those PVC pieces I needed to finish that. It turned out great with all those adapters and stuff.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9984/chillerplumed.jpg

I also got some unions when I was a home depot. With all the pluming cemented in place I was getting a bit nervous that I would not be able to change stuff. It was a huge pita to saw throwout PVC pipes while in place but I manages it. And now I am much more comfortable with the whole thing.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5637/union.jpg

Finally I managed to get a lot of the double glass done but alas that is not done yet. Here is all my double glass supplies, glass (not sure if you can see it but it is the big clear thing against the door) silicone, ans silica gel.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2914/glassstuff.jpg

So far I have cut and nailed in the strips of wood that will hold the glass in place. But I still need to paint them, make it air tight, put the silica gel in, mount the glass, and silicone it on. Finally I wanted to replace the side doors because they were not exactly the right size and because it will look better to have the grain all the same way. This sounds like a lot but I think it is enough to get done next weekend (ya ya I know I said that last week but come on positive thinking guys!) and if I am fast I may be able to do all the work Saturday and still be able to add water Sunday! :fish2:

iwishtofish

02/07/2011, 08:26 PM

Looks like good progress to me. Say, you might want to put some hose clamps on the chiller hoses where they slide on the barb fittings. Remember to use plumbers tape on the barb fitting threads?

gabew

02/08/2011, 06:35 PM

Oops didn't think of that. Thanks for the advice. It is a pretty tight fit but the more watertight the better.

gabew

02/15/2011, 08:43 PM

Well this has been a weekend for following some advice and doing all those last minute things to get the tank totally ready for water.

Have you considered painting the back? It is very cheap to do and has a very slick result.

Ended up following your advice there thanks. I was thinking about it and although the black plastic didn't look bad, this was going to be the permanent background for my tank so I might as well go that extra mile to make it look good. I ended up using black Krylon Fusion spray paint as I heard it works great. Here are some pics of the process.

First I had to cover the front of the tank to prevent it getting painted by accident.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3297/tankmasked.jpg

I really like the paint a lot better than the plastic. Much blacker and smoother. Sorry the tank was so dirty but here is a pic with the new painted background.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9797/tankpainted.jpg

Gabe, do you think the foam would be more effective as an insulator if the doubled pieces were coupled with some kind of adhesive?

Well honestly I still have no idea but since it couldn't hurt and I already had to take it all down to paint the tank I thought I might as well. I didn't use anything fancy at all just your simple kindergarden hot glue gun thing. Not sure if it will be any better but at least it is stronger now.

Say, you might want to put some hose clamps on the chiller hoses where they slide on the barb fittings. Remember to use plumbers tape on the barb fitting threads?

Done and done thanks for the advice. I used claps and tape on the fittings and now I think I have a much stronger more watertight connection there.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1152/chillerplumingclamps.jpg

Also this weekend I did a lot of stuff around water and light. First using some info about monthly water temperatures I made my full chart for what the temp of my tank will be each month. Here is what I ended up with.

January - 40 degrees
February - 36 degrees
March - 41 degrees
April - 47 degrees
May - 56 degrees
June - 62 degrees
July - 66 degrees
August - 68 degrees
September - 64 degrees
October - 57 degrees
November - 51 degrees
December - 42 degrees

Also I did some research on sunrise and sunset timer around here and made a chart for when I will set my lights timer too. I ended up moving everything forward by an hour because in the summer the sun rises at around 5 in the morning but sets at only 8 and I would much rather have it turn on at 6 and turn off at 9. It is all a little hard to wrap your head around all the numbers and times but with the help of some excel graphs I am positive that it all works.

January - On-8:06 Off-5:40
February - On-7:40 Off-6:16
March - Before time change On-7:10 Off-6:41 After time change On-7:44 Off-8:00
April - On-7:04 Off-8:27
May - On-6:26 Off-8:59
June - On-6:11 Off-9:20
July - On-6:24 Off-9:15
August - On-6:53 Off-8:42
September - On-7:25 Off-7:53
October - On-7:59 Off-7:03
November - Before time change On-8:21 Off-6:35 After Time change On-7:39 Off 5:22
December - On-8:04 Off-5:18

Finally the last think I figured out this weekend was what sort of water quality am I going for. I went down and took a water sample from the beach where I am going to get my water and tested it. Most of the things i already knew. This was seawater so I knew ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphates were all going to be zero. I knew around where PH, SG and Alkalinity would be. However the two big things I wanted to test for were magnesium and calcium especially the calcium. Like in coral reefs lots of animals here need calcium like shellfish for example. So I wanted to see what my goal for those tow were. The magnesium tested out to be at 1080ppm and the calcium at 400mg/L. I found it interesting that that was almost exactly what you would expect for a reef aquarium although the magnesium was a bit low. Here is a pic of the beach where I am getting all my water from.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7692/cranebeach.jpg

Finally I also just ordered my LED refugium light from rapid LED. And so I am officially totally, completely, absolutely, 100% ready to add water this weekend. No more delays! :lol2:

steveweast

02/15/2011, 09:32 PM

As someone who has run cold tanks for several years now.....and currently runs a 400 gal cold tank, I have many, many questions.....but, I'll limit them to a few.

1) What makes you think that this won't sweat ? It might be cold and dry outside...but, this looks like you're running it in your room where I'm sure it will be 70 F (probably higher with that chiller in your room too). With a 36 F tank temp, that's a huge temp gradient. I used to run 40 schedule PVC piping as you have done and have had it sweat with a 30 degree temp difference. I now use 80 schedule for everything. I suspect that you're going to have condensation issues on your pipes, your tank (even insulated), your sump, and on that thin acrylic overflow box if you run a temp gradient that high (tank in the 30's and the room in the 70's).

2) It looks like the chiller is in the same room as the tank ? Water holds a tremendous amount of heat and that chiller will be dumping that heat into your room. I would guess that if that is the case, your room will feel more like Las Vegas in August than the Northeast in February. The heat needs to be vented away from the tank....preferably outside of the home or at least outside the room.

3) Again....this is assuming that your setup is in your room. Cold tanks run notoriously low on pH because there is no photosynthesis taking place as in a tropical tank. This will be especially true if your room is not constantly open to the outside. CO2 builds up in closed spaces (our homes.....and especially in winter) and is introduced into the aquarium via the skimmer.....driving down the pH to the low 7's. I run a CO2 scrubber on my skimmer intake to keep the pH above 8. How are you planning to deal with low pH ?

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer.....but, this seems to be a cold tank that is set up like a tropical tank. The two are very different and should be set up accordingly. My advice to you is to not go below 60 for now.....see how it goes.....and then re-evaluate. I would also just fill the system with tap water and run it like you would the finished tank to see how it will perform for you under your conditions. No point in wasting RO water or salt at this point. I think you need a long water test period first. I suspect that going into the 40's.....and certainly the 30's.....will be problematic for you.

BTW....I run mine at 55 F year round. Here's a video of mine for a reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlUD3jqBcUM

iwishtofish

02/16/2011, 08:31 AM

Really nice additional work, Gabe! Excited to see water in it! Your photo of the beach makes me miss living in New England.

And Steve, nice video (of course)!

steveweast

02/16/2011, 10:19 AM

One more thing Gabe....it looks like your "under the stand" area is insulated. I'm not convinced that the way that you have it will work though. The folks that I've seen using a glass tank for a sump successfully insulate the tank itself with thick foam (or use acrylic with no insulation required). I see in your early posts that you're relying on your low winter dew numbers to help against sweating......however.....unless your tank is outside in the ambient conditions, those values are not valid. Especially in winter, we tend to close up our homes creating an entirely new dew point locally in our homes. Just breathing, cooking, laundry, showers, etc. add significant humidity to our homes.

This would be especially true with your sump area. That "under the stand" space, with all the equipment, is not going to remain at tank temp. It will be much closer (if not exactly) to room temperature. Plus, your sump will evaporate water into this space under your stand. Since your "under the stand" area is somewhat tight, your local humidity in that area will become extreme over time.....creating sweating conditions.

Sweating is the real enemy here. The water is a huge problem. It ruins floors, carpets, the stand, allows mold to grow....it's just something that needs to be eliminated.

In general.....it's best to insulate individual pieces (ie. pipes, tank, sump, etc.) .....not general areas. It is also best to ventilate enclosed areas (like under the stand) to avoid humidity build up issues.....which lead to sweating issues. In my case, I use no insulation. I rely upon 1" thick acrylic, schedule 80 piping, and lots of ventilation.

An extended "wet run" under various temps and conditions is really something you should consider to see how the system will perform. Because of the numerous variables involved (local temp, humidity, ventilation, etc), it's hard to predict how the system will perform.

Once you get all that handled, we can discuss the real challenges of coldwater keeping.....feeding and water quality. Your concern about Ca and Mg is really not going to be a concern. NO3, PO4, pH, and alk will be the real challenges.....unless you plan massive daily water changes. But, this is a discussion to have once you get operational.

norskfisk

02/16/2011, 12:37 PM

steveweast

02/16/2011, 01:37 PM

To Steve's comments: I have actually kept a 265 gallon down to 43 F during 2 winters. I am not really pessimistic about this setup. I believe Gabe is using double glass. I used double glass on my tank and had no problems with the tank itself. But the areas that I couldn't insulate, like the external skimmer, really sweated. In my case I could just wipe the seat up every second day in the coldest period, but it could potentially be a problem. So I think what you say about running tests with freshwater is really smart. There are guaranteed to be issues that must be solved. I am tempted to agree that the heat from the chiller will be a problem in a small room. But then again, it is a small tank. If the energy input is small it won't run that much. Only a test can find out. I would definitely insulate the sump and tubes.

Temperate animals are highly adapted to the seasons and need them for the stimulation of their natural processes. So personally I would change the temperatures through the year.

I agree that his double-paned front panel will perform....but, nothing else will at the proposed temps. That thin walled overflow box will perform just like your skimmer....it will sweat and drip down below. I have my doubts about just throwing some loose insulation on the other three sides as well. I've seen some folks who have the rigid insulation tightly secured to the panels.....and they do OK.....that doesn't seem to be the case here (could be wrong though).

I do agree with you that there is no formula as to what will sweat and what will not....or how hot that room will get (or how noisy preventing sleep).....and how all that will affect the operation. Only a prolonged water test will tell the tale. I just see a tropical setup being used as a cold system.....and it's those "potential" problems that I'm pointing out.

I'll say it again....I'm not trying to be the negative nellie here. I'm just trying to point out potential points of failure. Just saying "nice tank" provides no useful feedback. Gabe posted earlier that he couldn't find much info on cold systems. Well, that might be the case on message boards....but, there are quite a few temperate tanks....both public and private...with some very talented folks out there. He's not venturing into virgin territory at all......and I'd like for him not to repeat the failures of those before him.

steveweast

02/16/2011, 01:50 PM

Temperate animals are highly adapted to the seasons and need them for the stimulation of their natural processes. So personally I would change the temperatures through the year.

I can understand that....but, it really is a cost/reward scenario depending on what you're keeping. In our area, the Pacific Northwest, the range is much tighter.....50 - 60. I was diving two weeks ago and the surface temp was 38 F.....but, at depth, it was 48 F. A week later, both the surface and at depth temps were 51 F.

I feel....for my area.....and for what I'm keeping......that an average specified temp will suffice. It's a personal preference and I see no right or wrong in this area. In my case, I just can't justify the added expense and wear/tear to reach such low temps as in the 30's.

As for lighting....it really depends again on what....and from where....you're keeping. When I dive and collect, it is usually from around 70 to 120 ft. In our area, at 60 ft, I'm on full lights and the ambient light is nearly gone even on the brightest summer day.....by 100ft, it's perpetual midnight. If Gabe is going to be diving for his stock, I'm sure his water temps and lighting will vary considerably from at depth from at tidepools. Most reported NOAA ocean temps are reported as surface temps....not at depth temps.

This is just another example of how different cold environments are from tropical environments. Not too long ago, I was diving off Bora Bora. At 120 ft down, it was like a swimming pool with bright sun......and I could see the surface. Off our coast here in Oregon, I consider it a great viz day if I can see my dive buddy next to me.

gabew

02/16/2011, 05:05 PM

steveweast

02/16/2011, 06:05 PM

Wow ok lots of feedback thanks guys. So lets see if I can condense all this down into a few modifications.

I will diffidently add some insulation to the rest of my pipes, the same kind I used for my chiller. I will try to insulate the sump but I would prefer to be able to see the front to be able to see water level and equipment. Perhaps I could do double glass on the sump too? Not sure how I could insulate the smaller things like the overflow. I can deal with a small amount of sweating there thought.

As for the chiller preferably there would be some way to have it help heat the whole house. As Jon said it is not a huge tank so the chiller will not be doing too much. However during the summer I will certainly try to duct the heat outside.

For the pre-run I was thinking i would use my month or so of cycling for that. I will experiment with how low i can get it before it sweats, where it sweats, how well the chiller works, how much heat it puts out, etc.

Finally I may also use the cycling to see how bad PH gets. I will see if I should get a CO2 scrubber or some additives.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Really truly appreciated.

1) The tank will take longer than that to cycle. Mine took five months to build the bacterial populations up enough to handle any significant amount of livestock. Don't stock too soon, you'll have Nitrite issues and kill everything off.....ala Jacob from nanoreef. Stop rushing.

2) Test with fresh water. If you have a leak, fresh water is easier to deal with. Fresh water isn't nearly as damaging as saltwater.

3) You could arrange to have some sort of drip tray or bowl under where sweating might come off that over flow. Just make sure there's nothing in the way....like wiring.

4) Maybe you could line the whole bottom of your equipment area with some sort of drip tray. If there's a spill or sweating, it won't cause any damage. You could even have some sort of water alarm there too. You could have the entire sump sitting in the drip tray....and if the pipes sweat, they drip into a drip tray. I guess the idea is to recognize that sweating will occur....and how can you make it a non-issue when it happens.

huig

02/17/2011, 01:57 AM

Both Steve and Norskfisk have valid remarks.

Starting to see the benefits of an internal sump? Off course this limits the space a little in your tank, but the advantages are numerous. No sweating pipes, less prone to flooding your living room, less heat added to your system.

As for the pH issue, growing algae eliminates this problem to some extent. Also feeding your skimmer with air from outside will help. (this will limit your stocking a little as some organisms can' t compete with algae)

As for the temperatures, always try to duplicate the temperatures from the area your animals originated. eg my tank is at 3 °C so yesterday getting my arm in the tank cleaning my window was really unpleasent!

norskfisk

02/17/2011, 11:28 AM

Here is what I would do with the sump (and sides of the tank): Just insulate it with 1 inch styrofoam. I am setting up a small plankton test system now and when I glue the styrofoam on I first cut the sheets to size, then I put on beads of caulking compound on them. I use a tool to squeeze the compound into the crevices of the foam and at the same time scrape it off so that the surface gets smooth. When I press it against the glass the foam gets good contact, no spaces between foam and glass. If you just put the foam up against the glass with no gluing the cooling of air will create a flow that gives heat loss.

Steve: Good point about temperature and depth. The temperatures at depth are much less varied. For example at a research station in a fjord in Norway the temperature at 1 meter varied between 23 and 0 Celsius throughout 2006. But at the same point it varied only between 14 and 6 at 75 meters. Here is a temperature graph from 2006 (http://www.efan.no/Tempgraph/graph.php?T1m=ON&T75m=ON&SAYear=2011&EAYear=2011&SMonth=1&SYear=2006&EMonth=1&EYear=2007). I remember having read that the seasonal mixing in the Norwegian sea goes down to 150 meters, so below that I guess there are no seasons at all in terms of temperature.

gabew

02/17/2011, 05:52 PM

Ok guys again thanks for the advice.

1) The tank will take longer than that to cycle. Mine took five months to build the bacterial populations up enough to handle any significant amount of livestock. Don't stock too soon, you'll have Nitrite issues and kill everything off.....ala Jacob from nanoreef. Stop rushing.

2) Test with fresh water. If you have a leak, fresh water is easier to deal with. Fresh water isn't nearly as damaging as saltwater.

3) You could arrange to have some sort of drip tray or bowl under where sweating might come off that over flow. Just make sure there's nothing in the way....like wiring.

4) Maybe you could line the whole bottom of your equipment area with some sort of drip tray. If there's a spill or sweating, it won't cause any damage. You could even have some sort of water alarm there too. You could have the entire sump sitting in the drip tray....and if the pipes sweat, they drip into a drip tray. I guess the idea is to recognize that sweating will occur....and how can you make it a non-issue when it happens.

Just wondering if all coldwater tanks take 5months to cycle! Or was it just yours, that seems really long.

Also I am not rushing I just want to see salt water in the tank. If the reason for a freshwater is to test for leaks then I think I will be fine. I am confident that there will be no major leaks. At least no leaks that I can not fix.

I think having all your equipment be in a bowl would be a bit of a extreme way to control condensation. Unless it is literally gallons a day I could do as Jon does and wipe it off or even put a towel of sponge under places that I would wring out every day of so. No offense but I am wondering if some of your advice might only correspond to very large tanks such as yours. In a tank that size the chiller could heat a house, you could get gallons of sweat a day, etc. I am certainly not saying don't give advice, just think if your advice would be helpful for a small tank.

Both Steve and Norskfisk have valid remarks.

Starting to see the benefits of an internal sump? Off course this limits the space a little in your tank, but the advantages are numerous. No sweating pipes, less prone to flooding your living room, less heat added to your system.

As for the pH issue, growing algae eliminates this problem to some extent. Also feeding your skimmer with air from outside will help. (this will limit your stocking a little as some organisms can' t compete with algae)

As for the temperatures, always try to duplicate the temperatures from the area your animals originated. eg my tank is at 3 °C so yesterday getting my arm in the tank cleaning my window was really unpleasent!

I think it might be too late for an internal sump at this point but good to know for the future. I do want to grow some algae to give the tank that natural look so that should help.

Here is what I would do with the sump (and sides of the tank): Just insulate it with 1 inch styrofoam. I am setting up a small plankton test system now and when I glue the styrofoam on I first cut the sheets to size, then I put on beads of caulking compound on them. I use a tool to squeeze the compound into the crevices of the foam and at the same time scrape it off so that the surface gets smooth. When I press it against the glass the foam gets good contact, no spaces between foam and glass. If you just put the foam up against the glass with no gluing the cooling of air will create a flow that gives heat loss.

Steve: Good point about temperature and depth. The temperatures at depth are much less varied. For example at a research station in a fjord in Norway the temperature at 1 meter varied between 23 and 0 Celsius throughout 2006. But at the same point it varied only between 14 and 6 at 75 meters. Here is a temperature graph from 2006 (http://www.efan.no/Tempgraph/graph.php?T1m=ON&T75m=ON&SAYear=2011&EAYear=2011&SMonth=1&SYear=2006&EMonth=1&EYear=2007). I remember having read that the seasonal mixing in the Norwegian sea goes down to 150 meters, so below that I guess there are no seasons at all in terms of temperature.

Ok Ill be sure to try and seal off my Styrofoam to keep it better insulated. Now that I have it glued on it is already much better than it was before. Also The temperature at depth thing is interesting. I can not find a good source telling my monthly water temperatures at depth. I don't think my animals will be collected from TOO deep. My current diver certification only lets me go to 20 meters.

Again guys all this advice is awesome but I still really would like to get water in the tank this weekend, unless there is a possible major problem.

steveweast

02/17/2011, 06:34 PM

Just wondering if all coldwater tanks take 5months to cycle! Or was it just yours, that seems really long.

Bacterial processes are much slower at 50 F than 82 F. It takes much more time than a tropical tank to build up a sufficient bacterial population to handle the addition of livestock.....of course it depends on what your livestock will be and how sensitive it is to NH4 and NO2. I fed my tank massive doses of NH4Cl for months to build up a sufficient bacterial population to handle the addition of native rock and livestock....my tank still had a slight NO2 spike. I still get a spike if I add more than a single rock at a time.

You sound very much like Jacobnano from Nano reef. He said the same thing....thought he was good after a month....loaded up his nano with anemones, stars, rock, etc.......90% dead in two weeks. Now after a few months of exercising patience, he has quite the attractive, functional nano cold tank.

Just curious.....have you been diving off your coast yet ? what kind of critters are available to you off your coast ? What kind of certification limits your depth to 60 ft ? It's been about 10 yrs since my certification, but my SSI certification dive on day 1 went to 90 ft. Have times changed ?

I look forward to your progress.

gabew

02/17/2011, 07:32 PM

Ok good to know. I will have more patience once i have water but right now all I have is a REALLY expensive glass box.

I only got me divers license last year so I have not been diving too much. Right now I have the PADI Open Water Diver certificate which limits me to 60 feet I believe. But I am hoping to get more training in this summer and I could get a license that would let me go as deep as 120 feet.

iwishtofish

02/28/2011, 04:46 PM

Any updates, Gabe?

gabew

03/01/2011, 05:49 AM

Ya super sorry guys but it has been a super busy weeks with the tank and other things but my camera is being stupid again. Hopefulll I will get an update tonight.

Right now I am using a simple point and shoot camera. It works for most shots but I have a feeling it will be impossible to use if for nice shots of fish and stuff. Hopefully soon I will buy a nice new DSLR camera. Right now looking at the Nikon D90 any advice?

But don't worry there is an update coming....and it might get wet :fun4:

gabew

03/02/2011, 07:00 PM

Yay camera working! Update time!

Well it has been a massively busy two weeks between the tank and other things but there was a TON of progress.

First the big news, ladies and gentlemen, we now officially have
:celeb1: :lol2: :bounce1:WATER!!!!!!!:D :bigeyes: :fish2:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5250/tankwithwater.jpg

Now since I am using all NSW, what you didn't see was all the work it was getting all 75 gallons of water plus sand from the beach into the tank. But there it is for all to enjoy!

All the equipment is running right now except the chiller. The tank is running at room temperature now until I get it completely finished and insulated. i did get as much of the pipes insulated as I could. The chiller is almost certainly going to move. Not positive where at this moment. How much will it hurt the gph of my return pump to have the after running through lots more tubing to get to the chiller, without any elbows just tubes? All the filters are running. The skimmer pulled out a nice half cup full of dark green gunk within a day after I added the water but since then it hasn't done much, there ain't much more to clean! Here is a full sump shot.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3050/fullsumpshotrunning.jpg

The loudest thing was of course the bulkhead in the overflow, lots of gurgling. To combat this I built a hofer gurgle buster. It is not working perfectly though. It decreased the noise dramatically but it is not silent. I am not sure if it is just a matter of me not dialing it in correctly of what. It is standard 1" tube 1.5" bell and I think my return pump is doing 700-800gph. Is there a suggested water level? I have tried a water level from just flowing into the bell to over cap and have found no "sweet spot." Right now the water is about half way up the cap. Any help here?
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3540/hofffergurglebuster.jpg

Finally amazingly one small problem fixed a large problem. You see I was having a problem with microbubbles in the DT. There were visible bubbles coming out of the return line so I raised the level of water in the return pump camber so water didn't fall so far over the baffles and get air in the return pump. I did that and the bubbles coming out of the return line stopped but the microbubbles remained. Then one day the baffle separating the bubble wall with the return pump broke. By broke I mean that the water pressure from the difference in height between the bubble wall and the return pump which overcame the silicone and allowed the baffle to sid out and let water through. Here is a pic so you can see what i mean. Not sure if you can tell but the farther edge of the left baffle is leaning outward.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/919/brokenbaffle.jpg

Now when I first saw this I though my return pump had stopped working because no water was flowing over the baffle. Then I realized that the return pump was still humming so I thought that maybe it was clogged somewhere. then I realized that the overflow box was still gurgling and that is when I noticed the broken baffle. seeing this I got really worried/annoyed, I had no idea how I could fix this without tearing the whole thing down. Then I looked up and voila! No microbubbles in the tank. It took me a moment to figure out that because the baffle had broken on the side away from the intake of the return pump, not only was the water not falling anymore, but all the bubbles were being ejected away from the intake. And even better is because the only important part of a bubble wall is the part that forces water down where bubbles float up so the broken baffle has not real bad effect on the system. Problem solved!

Now finally all that is left to do is move the chiller, recut the side doors, and do the double glass, then I can add rock, crank the temp down and start cycling!

iwishtofish

03/02/2011, 08:38 PM

Congratulations, Gabe - a milestone! :)

Yes, I imagine it was a huge task to haul all that water (and sand) from the beach. Maybe you need to throw a pump in the ocean!

What are you going to use for rock? Can you collect local stuff? Also, nice surface agitation there...what gph are your Koralias?

Pylos

03/02/2011, 10:56 PM

I'm not sure if you've been over this before, but I didn't seem to see it in the thread. Where is your chiller from? Is it sufficient to keep the tank cool?

huig

03/03/2011, 01:19 AM

That is some very nice water! :D

gabew

03/03/2011, 03:14 PM

Thanks a lot guys!

Congratulations, Gabe - a milestone! :)

Yes, I imagine it was a huge task to haul all that water (and sand) from the beach. Maybe you need to throw a pump in the ocean!

What are you going to use for rock? Can you collect local stuff? Also, nice surface agitation there...what gph are your Koralias?

I actually pondered throwing a pump in the ocean a little bit, as crazy as it is. It is a only a mile to the beach from my house, but even though a mile isn't much to drive or even walk, it is a crazy amount of piping. I wasn't considering doing water changes by pipes so much as having it be my filtration. Now that I think about it is is absolutely absurd, but I was pondering having a large pump constantly cycle water out of the ocean into the tank and waste water back to the ocean. It would actually be great if the beach was say, your back your. No need for any filtration, no supplements, no water changes, no worries about chemical levels, a constant supply of plankton and water borne animals for food, and if you insulated the pipes you might not even need a chiller. Honestly that is not my idea, that is how they run the main kelp forest tank at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. There they are literally on the ocean and they use HUGE pumps pumping 120,000gph through their HUGE 333,000 gallon tank. Of course any aquarium a person could do would not be nearly this big but it would allow you to have a very large coldwater tank with only a large pump and maybe a small chiller. Kinda makes you want to move to the ocean doesn't it. :D

The Koralias are both 1400gph. One thing I have wondering is weather I should have them both run constantly for maximum flow, or have them alternate for a more natural wave like but less powerful flow. What is more important maximum flow or wave lie flow?

I'm not sure if you've been over this before, but I didn't seem to see it in the thread. Where is your chiller from? Is it sufficient to keep the tank cool?

I got it from a reputable buyer on eBay for $500. It is 1/2hp so even if it is not the world's greatest chiller it is more than enough to keep my tank cool.

That is some very nice water! :D

Thanks! I like it a lot. I'm trying to get some better shots of the front but my camera is refusing.

gabew

03/04/2011, 03:34 PM

Yay Rapid LED stuff acme today :celeb1:
I'll get an update with the refugium light up once I get it finished.

gabew

03/10/2011, 05:59 PM

Well guys here is a small update all about the LED refugium light. Like I said it all came last Friday, 6 CREE XP-G Neutral White LEDS, 6 40degreee lenses, heat sink, thermal adhesive, driver, and wires. I have been spending the past few days putting that all together and now it is time to show some pics of the process.

Here is a pic of the general layout. Nothing is glued or attached yet this is just figuring out how it will all look and work. All the LEDs are spaced equally on the heat sink.
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/4434/ledsinplace.jpg

Next step was to glue the LEDs on. That was really easy. I was a little worried that the adhesive would dry to fast or I would glue one on wrong or whatever but it all turned out perfect.
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/7058/ledsgluedon.jpg

Next it was time to solder everything together. This was what I was most nervous about. My soldering skills are not perfect and one mistake here and $100 dollars out the door.
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/4369/ledswired.jpg

Now for the moment of truth. Time to see if i did everything right. Did all my soldering come out ok? Did I match up positive and negative right? Were they all working? Did I get the right driver?
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/8184/ledson.jpg

I guess so! :lol2: :celeb1:
let me just say that the LEDs on my Marineland fixture are all 1watt, well these are 3watts and THEY ARE BRIGHT. With everything working it is a huge relief.

Final step was to install it above the refugium. I forgot to say that before attaching any LEDs I drilled 4 holes in the corners of the heat sink for hanging. Now a few hooks and some light chain and voila, a brightly illuminated refugium perfect for growing lots of algae! :celeb1:
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/913/ledsinstalled.jpg

Very pleases with all of this. I am hoping to get some more work done this weekend. Might be able to add rocks and start cycling soon!

iwishtofish

03/10/2011, 09:06 PM

Wow, I'd have been so afraid I'd screw that up, but it looks great. No acrylic shield?

gabew

03/11/2011, 05:50 PM

No there isn't a shield, should there be? I'm assuming it is to prevent spray. I didn't think you needed them as they can decrease light penetration and most people just use mesh to keep fish from jumping out which obviously doesn't black spray. I did have the light closer to the water and it was getting sprayed a bit so I moved it up a little. Now it is getting sprayed a lot less. Would it just be a piece of acrylic between the lights and the water?

iwishtofish

03/11/2011, 08:25 PM

Gabe, check around in the Lighting or DIY forums for details, but I'd use a shield if they were my lights. I should think, for their purpose, they likely put out more than enough light to make up for any that a shield might block.

meco65

03/11/2011, 09:01 PM

I used the 2" coupling on mine. And run my water level. Quite as can be, the fan on the lights is louder.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b86/meco65/LRAddedMedium-1.jpg

Bamm Bamm

03/11/2011, 09:03 PM

a sheild will help the connection and lights from being damaged from salt creep

gabew

03/12/2011, 09:01 AM

Thanks guys I'll make a shield then.

I used the 2" coupling on mine. And run my water level. Quite as can be, the fan on the lights is louder.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b86/meco65/LRAddedMedium-1.jpg

Ok I'll try a 2" coupling then. Also it looks like your water level is right at the bell, I'll try that too.

iwishtofish

03/12/2011, 09:20 AM

Thanks guys I'll make a shield then.

A good protection for your investment. :) Just don't put it too close to the lenses - I understand that LEDs don't have quite the heat problems of other types of lighting, but I've heard of acrylic shields warping under LEDs.

What are you going to use for your rock, Gabe?

didz04

03/12/2011, 10:04 AM

I'm liking the progress :bounce1::bounce2::bounce3:

gabew

03/12/2011, 10:27 AM

A good protection for your investment. :) Just don't put it too close to the lenses - I understand that LEDs don't have quite the heat problems of other types of lighting, but I've heard of acrylic shields warping under LEDs.

What are you going to use for your rock, Gabe?

I think i am going to use plexi glass like i did for the sump just because my local hardware store doesn't have acrylic, does plexi glass warp?

As for rocks I was thinking I'd find a nice rocky beach to collect some. There should be plenty of hitchhikers on that!

I'm liking the progress :bounce1::bounce2::bounce3:

Thanks! I am really close to being able to add rocks and start cycling! All I need to finish is the side doors and the double glass.

noahm

03/12/2011, 12:29 PM

I think i am going to use plexi glass like i did for the sump just because my local hardware store doesn't have acrylic, does plexi glass warp?

Plexi-glass is just a brand name of acrylic and will bow/warp the same if it is too thin.

gabew

03/12/2011, 01:07 PM

Oh ok thanks I didn't know plexi glass and acrylic were the same things thanks.

gabew

03/16/2011, 07:28 PM

Well here's another update.

On Sunday I was able to do the double glass and redo the side doors. Both of those turned out great. With everything finished I was able to bring temperature down. It took a few hours for the chiller to bring the temperature down from 70 degrees to 41 degrees but it was able to get it there and keep it there with no problem. I don't think I will actually move the chiller for now. Pretty soon it will be that time when the extra heat is not wanted and we will need to work about where outside to put it. Come next fall we can worry about a better place in the house. It did heat the room when it was on constantly running trying to bring the temperature down. Once it got it there it turns on/off every half hour to an hour so the heat has time to circulate better. There did start to be some fogging on the sump area past 45 degrees. Not a substantial amount however. The double glass works perfectly and keeps the DT totally fog free. :bounce1:

With everything finished and the tank down to temperature it was time to go on the first collection trip to find us some live rock! :celeb1: Here it the beach we were collecting from.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1625/salembeachlowtide.jpg

We had to time this trip right and work fast because in a few hours the beach looks like this.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8307/salembeachhightide.jpg

And even that much of a tidal change is nothing. We were only there from mid-low to mid tide. At the lowest it gets the water line is back another 50 yards and at the high it is five feet up the seawall.

Here are some shots of some of the hitchhikers and other things you might find at a beach like this and hopefully in the tank. Keep in mind we were only here to collect rocks. The tank has not started cycling so, as cautioned, we avoided deliberately collecting too much we wouldn't want to lose, but of course any hitchhikers we got, well, by accident, oh that was fine.

First off, seaweed. Lots and lots of seaweed...
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/213/salembeachseaweed.jpg

And the barnacles. It was hard to find a rock that didn't have some barnacles.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2693/salembeachbarnacles.jpg

Almost every rock you turned over had a few crabs under it. Ranging in size from 1/8" - 6"+
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8744/salembeachcrab.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2461/salembeachcrab2.jpg

There were also tons of snails. Almost certainly going to get a free cuc here.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1037/salembeachsnails.jpg

Dig in the mud for a bit and you were bound to find a few clams. Get a dozen or two and you got your self an amazing bowl of clam chowder!
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4924/salembeachclam.jpg

iwishtofish

03/16/2011, 07:38 PM

Neat-looking crabs. For some odd reason, I am expecting anarchy in your tank. :)

gabew

03/16/2011, 07:42 PM

Also plenty of mussels clinging to the rocks.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4774/salembeachmussle.jpg

Possibly my least favorite things were the 12"+ worms. And in case you didn't know there guys can BITE.
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2613/salembeachworm.jpg

Sorry for the blurry pic but some of the rocks were literally crawling with pods. Lots and lots of pods.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6391/salembeachpods.jpg

All in all we collected about 150lbd of rocks. Sounds like a lot but these rocks are a lot less porous and less dense so that ended up being absolutely perfect. I tried to find interesting shaped rocks to get a better aquascape. Also wanted rocks with different life, some with seaweed, some with barnacles, and some just bare to allow for new additions to be placed. In the end I am quite pleased with how the tank looks. Here is a pic of the current aquascape. Might change it a bit but I like it for now.
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/2787/fts31411.jpg

Here are some pics of those hitchhikers I was hoping for. (Sorry for the horrible pics but my p&s camera is the worst at anything close to macro. And plus the white balance is way off everything looks way too green.)

Barnacles! I was really worried we wouldn't get any barnacles. :spin2: In the second pic you can see how they use there little feather thingy to eat. Really wish i could get a video up but my camera is refusing, again.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2428/tankbarnacles.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3285/tankbarnacles2.jpg

And look there's that free cuc I was tanking about!
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2956/tanksnails.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3261/tanksnails2.jpg

The last hitchhiker we got was totally an accident but really lucky. A really nice mussel!
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8682/tankmussle.jpg

gabew

03/16/2011, 07:45 PM

Neat-looking crabs. For some odd reason, I am expecting anarchy in your tank. :)

Haha thanks. It will be interesting to learn what animals are good, what are pests, what bully etc.

iwishtofish

03/16/2011, 08:03 PM

This is going to be a pretty fascinating experiment to follow. I can't wait to see what your skimmer pulls out. It all looks really neat!

Any idea what the water temp was when you collected? How often will you do water changes? I'd constantly monitor ammonia, I think, were this my tank.

huig

03/17/2011, 02:19 PM

Nice!

a tip for the barnacles: feed some yeast as a substitute for phytoplankton.

THEDLO

03/17/2011, 03:09 PM

Nice!

a tip for the barnacles: feed some yeast as a substitute for phytoplankton.

elaborate please! thanks

also very cool build! im subed!

gabew

03/17/2011, 03:31 PM

Here's a small update with a few more pics.

First off here's the refugium up and running. It has a dsb of 6" and two pieces of live rock. One of the pieces had a ton of seaweed on it. Any advice on what kinds of seaweed are best ore nutrient extraction? Right now I am just using the common kind. I am looking to get a good guild for algae and seaweed from around here so I can give you names and such. I have one for inverts and fish but not algae. The other rock is a lot more porous. It didn't look very good in the dt but it will be perfect for biological filtration and pod breeding down in the fuge. You can see the seaweed looks great under the bright LEDs. I put a piece of acrylic (which I now know is the same as plexiglass ;) ) in place to keep the splashes off. It does its job perfectly. You can see the condensation on the uninsulated glass here too.
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6349/refugiumrunning.jpg

This is going to be a pretty fascinating experiment to follow. I can't wait to see what your skimmer pulls out. It all looks really neat!

Any idea what the water temp was when you collected? How often will you do water changes? I'd constantly monitor ammonia, I think, were this my tank.

Yes the simmer has been interesting. Like I said before when I first added the water it pulled out about half a cup of gunk then stopped. Well when I say stopped I mean it did absolutely nothing. I was getting a bit worried that it wasn't working. Then when I added the rocks it exploded and filled up the cup withing 24 hours. Most of that was debris and stuff from the new rocks. Since then it has been working as a good skimmer has and has collected a quarter cups full or gunk in the past few days.
http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/1184/simmerrunning.jpg

I didn't measure the water where I collected but I am guessing git was in the low 40's. About the temperature let me just say that I am SO glad I bought the gloves because that water is SO COLD! I am thinking of water changes of either 10% every week or 20% every two weeks. Whichever is more convenient. I will be watching ammonia. I tested the water the day after I added everything and ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all tested 0. I am going to do another test tonight and will continue every few days until cycling is over.

Nice!

a tip for the barnacles: feed some yeast as a substitute for phytoplankton.

elaborate please! thanks

also very cool build! im subed!

Thanks guys!
Yes could you elaborate on the yeast thing. It sounds really interesting. Do you mean adding it directly as a powder? Should you let it grow in some sugar water first? Will this work for other filter feeders such as my mussel?

huig

03/18/2011, 01:57 AM

Yeast (saccharomyces cerevisiae) can be used as a substitute for bacterioplankton and fytoplankton.
It has a good nutritional profile (not perfect but good)

One of the advantages over bacterias and fyto is that yeast is able to survive the osmotic shock, but it will not be able to reproduce in seawater. And it is no hassle to culture it.

I used to culture fyto, copepods, brachionus and artemia, keeping the fyto going, was for me too much work. I have over 20 tanks to maintain and watching my daughter so very little extra time is left for messing around with jugs and tanks...

I use it to keep tunicates, sponges, oysters and mussels, even some corals can eat it.

Best not use the dry yeast, but the live one. Over here you can just buy the live one in the supermarket about 40 g for 0.2 €, it stays fresh for about 3 weeks.

huig

03/18/2011, 02:05 AM

Ah forgot your question about the seaweed.

I find Ulva sp. to be very easy to grow and harvest if necessary.

The one in your pic looks like a Fucus sp. I have tried this several times but I' ve not been able to keep it alive, even outdoor in direct sunlight it dies.

gabew

03/18/2011, 06:44 AM

Wow thanks a lot great info.
That yeast sounds great I'll use that a lot. I'll also try to get some more ulva I only have one small piece right now. I have some more fucus in the tank. We'll see how it does.

huig

03/18/2011, 07:25 AM

Don' t use a lot, the trick is to use a little often:p

zaheda

03/18/2011, 07:59 AM

I like your cold water setup, much more different to all other reeftanks me see all day. The only cold water tank me seen was Steve Weast(oregon reef) I will be tagging to see how this tank turns out.

gabew

03/18/2011, 01:26 PM

Don' t use a lot, the trick is to use a little often:p

Same thing same difference :D

I like your cold water setup, much more different to all other reeftanks me see all day. The only cold water tank me seen was Steve Weast(oregon reef) I will be tagging to see how this tank turns out.

Thanks. Fortunately they are getting more and more popular.

Pittman

03/25/2011, 08:16 AM

[QUOTE=gabew;18501225]
Possibly my least favorite things were the 12"+ worms. And in case you didn't know there guys can BITE.
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2613/salembeachworm.jpg

I use to get these guys for fishing and boy are these guys scary looking. When they protrude there mouth they look like aliens.

Keep the updates coming! I love this thread as it is the same ecosystem that surrounds the Island I live on!

duncantse

03/25/2011, 09:41 AM

Interesting build! I have never seen a cold saltwater aquarium before.

gabew

03/25/2011, 12:03 PM

I use to get these guys for fishing and boy are these guys scary looking. When they protrude there mouth they look like aliens.

Keep the updates coming! I love this thread as it is the same ecosystem that surrounds the Island I live on!

Ditto. They make awesome bait but they look so creepy! Sorry though no updates right now. I am on vacation for a few days right now. I have a friend looking after the tank. I am getting home tomorrow so I will post an update once I make sure my friend didn't kill anything. :D Last I checked ammonia was .03 nitrites 0 and nitrates 0. Let the Cycling continue!

Interesting build! I have never seen a cold saltwater aquarium before.

Thanks. If you want to see other more established tanks you can just search "coldwater" here on RC. There are a few others out there.

Bamm Bamm

03/25/2011, 12:11 PM

I think I missed it in the thread what kind of fish are you plannig on adding?

gabew

03/25/2011, 01:13 PM

I'm not positive as of now. I don't know too much about fish around here, I have some ideas though. One fish I want is a flounder, I really like them and you can find them really small. I am looking for a sort of coldwater blenny equivalent, some sort of rock dweller probably lots of options here. I also want to see if I can find a small eel, I really like eels, hopefully one that is not to predatory. One other thing I am looking for is a pipefish, I have seen them around here and I really like them, but I am just not sure if they will be too hard to feed. Finally I want to get something colorful, not sure how easy or hard this will be but I want at least a few eye catching fish for those people who just don't appreciate the invertebrates (I'm sure everyone knows what I mean the people who look at a tank full of thousands of dollars of coral and say "look its nemo!") :fun2:

Pittman

03/26/2011, 05:45 AM

There was a type of fish I use to catch when I was young that I'd throw in an old fish tank and they lived for weeks with nothing other then fish food you would feed a goldfish (No filter, just water and gravel and only died when I added a bunch of other random fish). It was semi transparent and had a zebra pattern on them. I'm trying my best to find a picture of what i'm talking about but no luck as of yet.

I also had no trouble finding eels and another fish that I cant seem to remember the name of. If I find out i will let you know ( i think it was black and orange which lived under rocks) I've seen someone else here with a very small skulpin. Another easy to find/catch is connars(I think this is just a Newfoundland name for them) they may be aggressive tho.

Edit:
Connars (Spelled Wrong):

Cunner
Scientific Name: Tautogolabrus adspersus
Common Names: perch, sea perch, blue perch, bergall, chogset

Pittman

03/26/2011, 12:53 PM

Here is another fish I was talking about.

http://www.coldoceanaquarium.ca/Exhibits/gunnel.html

for some reason I thought it was black and orange.

superman0440

03/26/2011, 12:59 PM

interesting lik to see more pics in the future

gabew

03/26/2011, 04:21 PM

Well I am back from vacation and it is time for an update!

To my great relief my friend did an awesome job taking care of the tank. Though all he had to do was refill the ato reservoir and empty the skimmer cup I was a little worried. What if there was a problem, what if the pipes sprung a leak or some equipment stopped working? (he had had no experience with marine aquariums as far as I know) Anyway there was no reason to worry the tank is doing better than ever.

First thing I did was do some tests. This time instead of just testing nitrates, nitrites and ammonia I decided to go ahead and do all the tests just to make sure everything was good. Overall I am extremely pleased with the results. This time nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia all tested zero. It is possible that they had been that way all along since the .03 ammonia was really low for my test kit so it hay have been a zero. I am considering adding something to kick start cycling, how about the dead shrimp method, do you think that would help here? I also tested phosphates and those came out as zero as well. Specific gravity is good at 1.026. Next I tested PH and alkalinity. These are the only two that weren't perfect. PH tested as 8.0, there's that notoriously low PH for ya! It is not horrible but it isn't ideal. Any suggestions on good ways to raise it? Alkalinity also tested low at 2.5. Now this was not so surprising, natural sea water has an alkalinity of 2-3 so since I am using nsw 2.5 should be expected. I may however want to try and raise that to avoid PH swings, again any suggestions on how to raise that. Anything that could raise both PH and alkalinity? Any way to kill both those birds with one stone? Finally I tested calcium and magnesium. Again very pleased with the results with a 380 for calcium and a 1200 for magnesium.

Something else I noticed was some of the algae showed noticeable signs of growth. Here's a couple pics. I just recently got a new computer with photoshop so I have been playing with that trying to get the white balance right. Not sure if you can tell in my previous tank shots but all the pics are way to green. Anyway I have been trying to get the color right, it isn't perfect but it is much better and should give you a good idea of the real colors.

First off (sorry no pic for this one) the fuge has been doing awesome. Under the LEDs the fucus that I was worried about has been thriving. It has grown by at least half an inch so far straight up (even out of the water a bit!) towards the light. There is also some brown hair like algae developing on the other rock in there that wasn't there when I left.

I have a lot of this nice red algae. I noticed that it had some green new growth after a week away. The new growth may be green because of the less light or it may just develop the red color gradually. In this pic you can see a lot of the old red with some new green emerging.
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/7054/1003493.jpg

This next algae I am guessing is a kind of brown uvla, not positive though. It has been doing great and has made a few small off shoots.
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/1596/1003472.jpg

The last algae is probably your normal green uvla. This is totally new since I got back as there is none of this when I left. Right now there are only a few tiny bits on this one rock but I hope they continue to grow.
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8279/greenuvla32611.jpg

Now in some of those pics you may have seen lots of particulates in the water. Well I say those too and started looking to see what might be the problem. Finally I noticed that the carbon/gfo reactor was totally clogged and stopped. Well since it has been a few weeks with rocks and a month with water I thought I would go ahead and change the media. I am using 2 cups carbon and 1 cup gfo and am hoping to chance them every month. It will be helpful to have the change date be just the end of every month.

There was a type of fish I use to catch when I was young that I'd throw in an old fish tank and they lived for weeks with nothing other then fish food you would feed a goldfish (No filter, just water and gravel and only died when I added a bunch of other random fish). It was semi transparent and had a zebra pattern on them. I'm trying my best to find a picture of what i'm talking about but no luck as of yet.

I also had no trouble finding eels and another fish that I cant seem to remember the name of. If I find out i will let you know ( i think it was black and orange which lived under rocks) I've seen someone else here with a very small skulpin. Another easy to find/catch is connars(I think this is just a Newfoundland name for them) they may be aggressive tho.

Edit:
Connars (Spelled Wrong):

Cunner
Scientific Name: Tautogolabrus adspersus
Common Names: perch, sea perch, blue perch, bergall, chogset

Here is another fish I was talking about.

http://www.coldoceanaquarium.ca/Exhibits/gunnel.html

for some reason I thought it was black and orange.

Thanks man those are some cool fish! That skulpin is awesome. :bigeyes: It looks really predatory though. If I get one that would be so cool though! Also I love those Gunnels too. They don't look predatory and would be great as my eel. I'll diffidently look for those.

interesting lik to see more pics in the future

Thanks. Wish granted! :D

norskfisk

03/27/2011, 05:32 AM

Congrats with the algal growth!

The "brown ulva" may be kelp. Perhaps Laminaria saccharina or Laminaria digitata. I wouldn't raise the pH if I were you. It means less CO2 in the water. CO2 is very important for algae.

It is possible that your algae are taking the nitrogen compounds as soon as they are produced. If so there is no need for cycling at all. I wouldn't worry about it unless I could measure ammonium. But definitely keep measuring ammonium. If the algae growth stops you may want to look into dosing. I recommend a combination of nitrate, phosphate, and Seachem Flourish for trace elements. CO2 may be needed too.

gabew

03/27/2011, 07:20 AM

Thanks lots of good info.
Now that you mention it that brown one does look a lot like a small kelp. Now I really hope it keeps growing that would be really cool to have in the tank.
In the part about CO2 and PH, do you mean raising the PH will reduce the CO2 of that low PH has less CO2? If I don't need to worry about PH that would be nice. Do I still need to worry about alkalinity though?

If I don't need to worry about cycling that would be awesome too. I think that the small ammonia pike from before may have bee all the stuff on the rocks that died from the stress of moving. I'm sure there was a lot that didn't make it. I'll try waiting a week to see if anything spikes, then I'll try adding a few fish and wait some more. If I still don't get any spikes do you think I could go ahead and start stocking for real?

You also have interesting suggestions for dosing. For seachem flourish I managed to find a few different types, there is just plain flourish (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=SEA-513&Category_Code=), flourish trace (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=SEA-743&Category_Code=), flourish excel (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=SEA-453&Category_Code=), flourish iron (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=SEA-473&Category_Code=), and flourish potassium (http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=SEA-463&Category_Code=). They are all intended for freshwater though. Which one do you suggest. Then how do you suggest I add phosphates and nitrates? Aren't those things you normally want to avoid? If I do indeed want phosphates do you think I should not run gfo. I'm pretty sure some of the flourish had nitrates and phosphates in them, would that be enough of do I need additional dosing. Then finally for the CO2 if need be would a simple yeast system do the trick or do I need something better and more expensive? So far all my algae is thriving so I don't think I will need to dose just yet but in the future we will have to see.

gabew

03/27/2011, 07:51 AM

So I was just doing some more thinking and I came up with two new ideas. First, everyone is saying I will want to constantly monitor ammonia. Well seachem makes a device that does just that, their ammonia alert (http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/SEA-010.html) goes in your tank and constantly monitors ammonia. So how reliable are these. I may use one of these to monitor ammonia on a daily basis then use my test kit weekly to just make sure. Would that work?

My second idea was about dosing nitrate. I was thinking about good ways to add nitrates to a tank and I thought bio balls. Aren't those known to produce lots of nitrate. If I added some of those to the tank they would remove the unwanted ammonia and nitrites and produce the wanted nitrates. Again would that work?

norskfisk

03/27/2011, 07:56 AM

Raising pH will reduce CO2 and vice versa. You should worry about pH, but 8, probably down to 7.7 is fine as far as I know. Your alkalinity is perfect. I think a planted tank should be kept in the lower ranges of pH and alkalinity because of CO2. But definitely watch it carefully, especially when you add livestock. There is pH/Alk buffer that you can add if it is too low.

Yes, to the cycling question. But give it two weeks with a small number of fish.

It is the plain flourish I mean. It seems to contain about everything that has ever been proven to help a plant grow. Except from the macro nutrients nitrate and phosphate.

Nitrate and phosphate: You can buy them as powders from stores that sell planted freshwater tank supplies. And yes, those are the ones you normally want to avoid. It is a little complicated. You don't want to dose those until your tank is fully stocked and has been running like that for at least a month. I didn't know that you didn't have any fish yet. As soon as you start adding fish and feeding a lot of nitrates and phosphates will come from the food. So only if you test zero nitrate and phosphate after a month of fully stocking, and algal growth stops, should you consider adding them.

You should not run gfo if you want phosphates. Correct.

Yeast is practically free, and people say it works. So I try that first, yes.

Hope this info helps rather than confuse..!

gabew

03/27/2011, 08:52 AM

Great thanks that helps a lot.
I guess I'll keep monitoring everything and if it stays good next weekend I'll try and get some fish. Of course it is still too col to go diving but I am hoping I will be able to find some good places to set traps. I won't be able to go diving until June but hopefully as it warms up I will be able to get to some good collection spots like tide pools or beaches and start stocking. Then we can see if dosing will be necessary.

About the gfo. If I remove it I will have an empty reactor chamber. I could either simply but a single reactor and sell the double or put something else in the second chamber. How about the bio balls I was thinking about. Would they be efficient in the reactor? I can buy the BRS bio pellet chamber to fit in my current reactor, would this work to hold bio balls or would my current chambers work fine? Or would running the BRS bio pellets give me the same nitrates as bio balls?

EDIT: Never mind about using bio pellets. I was looking at them and they are specifically for removing nitrates. So my question of would bio balls in either the normal or the bio pellet chamber work in my reactor to produce nitrates?

gabew

03/27/2011, 10:21 AM

Ok so I was doing some more research and found that seachem also sells flourish nitrogen (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9904) and flourish phosphorous (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9906) designed to specifically boost nitrates and phosphates. Would that work for what I might need?

norskfisk

03/27/2011, 03:49 PM

Flourish nitrogen and phosphorous: Yes, they will work.

Bio balls, and other biological filters, like live sand and live rock help producing nitrates because they contain bacteria that break down food and animal waste products. Water, CO2, nitrates, phosphates and other inorganic nutrients are the final end products of that process. They will work in a reactor chamber.

Bio pellets: I would leave a reactor chamber empty so that I could add them later, if needed. They will remove nitrogen, phosphorous and other nutrients. It may be the thing you need if your algae can't take up all that your animals are producing, or if you want to restrict algal growth because nuicanse algae are taking over, or some other reason. But there is no need to use them as long as you can't measure any nitrate/phosphate anyway. Correct as you observed: Using bio pellets together with nutrient dosing is of course meaningless, since they are made to remove what dosing adds.

iwishtofish

04/01/2011, 06:53 PM

Alright, Gabe - what's going on in there? :wave:

gabew

04/02/2011, 06:13 AM

At the moment not too much. The skimmer has finally "broken in" and is producing much darker denser simmate. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate are all holding at zero. The PH has gone down further to 7.8, how low can PH get in a coldwater tank before it becomes too low? It is now April which means the temp is up to 47*.This is really nice because that means there is no more fogging! For now. Tomorrow I am hoping to get some traps out and try and catch a few fish. I'll give you a full update then.

iwishtofish

04/02/2011, 06:48 AM

gabew

04/02/2011, 12:23 PM

I haven't yet but I am going to this next collection trip I think.

huig

04/02/2011, 01:47 PM

I' m going to do a dive tomorrow, I hope I collect some nice stuff. What kind of traps do you use?

gabew

04/02/2011, 03:07 PM

Boy I wish it were warm enough to dive here, yesterday if fricking snowed!!! Happy april fools god! :furious:

I am using two different traps. I made 5 out of milk cartons with their tops cut off and put is backwards to form a funnel. I also found this bucket shaped thing made out of wire mesh while I was cleaning out my garage, in my experience those make amazing traps for crabs. I will see what I can get for bait. I am thinking of blending up some different baits (clam, shrimp, fish, squid, etc) to make my own frozen fish food as well.

gabew

04/05/2011, 07:28 PM

Ok guys so Sunday I went out with my traps to try and catch some animals to test how well the algae could handle nutrient absorption and here is what I caught! Sorry for the late update but I wanted to wait for everything to get settled in before I updated.

Here is the location I chose to set the traps. It is a small quite dock about a 5 minute drive from my house. It has plenty of places to drop and tie off traps in fairly deep water.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/essexdock.jpg?t=1302051070

First off there are the traps. I ended up using three kinds of simple traps. All traps were baited with clam.

The first kind of trap was a simple funnel trap made out of a milk carton with the top put in backwards. This formed a funnel that animals could climb in but not out. I used tape to close up all the holes and hold everything together. A zip tie was added to allow string to be attached as well as to keep everything from floating away if the tape were to come off in the water. Once the trap was filled with bait and a few rocks for ballast another piece of tape went opposite the zip tie to seal everything in and keep it shut. Here is a pic of the basic design.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/milktrap.jpg?t=1302051090

The second trap I had high hopes for. It was a simple metal cage type thing. Animals would climb in to get the bait then get pulled up. Its large size would allow larger animals to be caught. I tied two rocks to the same side, one front one back, so it would sink and lie flat. I tied the string to the top front so when it was pulled up it would hold all the animals. The bait was tied at the back of the cage forcing animals to go to the back to be caught. Here is a pic of the trap without the rocks, bait, or string.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/cagetrap.jpg?t=1302051352

The third trap I had used before with great success to catch crabs. It is simply a net with bait inside. The crabs never actually have to go inside the trap, instead they eat the bait from the outside and then when the trap is pulled up they aren't smart enough to let go. Depending on how many crabs there are in the area you can easily pull a dozen up after an hour.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/nettrap.jpg?t=1302051538

I brought 5 milk traps, 1 cage trap, and 2 net traps, however I lost 1 milk trap. I set the traps out at 12:00 and came back at 4:00 to see the catch. I have to say I was surprised and pleased. The net and cage traps came up empty. There must not be any crabs in that area. The milk traps however (the ones I wasn't so sure about) worked amazing. To be honest I thought most fish would be smart enough to know how to get out of a trap like that but I guess not. The days catch ended up being 1 fish and maybe a half dozen shrimp. It is not a ton but I am extremely pleased. I really didn't think I could catch a fish and I wasn't to sure if the milk traps would work but they did and I am very happy. It is enough to start testing the algae.
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8689/1003572z.jpg

Well everything is now in the tank and thriving.

The shrimp are really cool. They like to bury themselves so all you see are these little eyes and antennas. They do often crawl around the sand and rocks and even sometimes dart around the tank. I looked in my guild and I belive them are opossum shrimp (Mysis spp.) While I am on the subject of scientific names I looked up all my other animals and here is what I found. Most of the snails are common periwinkles (Littorina littorea) the one yellow snail I have is a northern yellow periwinkle (Littorina obtusata) the mussel is a blue mussel (Mytilus edulis) and the barnacles are northern rock barnacles (Balanus balanoides). Anyway here are some pics of the shrimp.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/shrimp4-4-11.jpg?t=1302052533
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/shrimp4-3-11.jpg?t=1302052565

Now for the fish. He has been an interesting character. When I first put him in he instantly darted behind the overflow not to be seen for the rest of the day. That morning I caught him peeking out from behind a rock, but the minute he saw me he darted back behind it. By the afternoon he was cautiously peeking out of the rocks and hiding in the seaweed. Finally today he had gotten used to the new environment and was darting around the tank with no fear. I even saw him nibbling on some algae which means he is eating and doing well. I have not gotten a positive id on him but he is about 3" long, her is a pic.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/firstfish4-4-11.jpg?t=1302052849

I have been feeding with some left over clam until I can make some proper food. Everything still holding at zero so it looks good so far. I am really hoping to go back to the place where I got my rocks and set some traps next weekend. There are plenty of crabs and other fish there to try and catch.

iwishtofish

04/05/2011, 10:38 PM

Awesome stuff, Gabe! Thanks for the detailed report!

risika67

04/05/2011, 10:39 PM

What an awesome idea!

huig

04/06/2011, 01:40 AM

Gasterosteus aculeatus I believe prickle or stickle backs in English.
I' ve got some myself, these are easy to breed as well!

Males get a very nice colour during breeding.

sczlars

04/06/2011, 01:49 AM

hey Gabe, great progress so far. It will be fun to continue following this thread. I just got back into an aquarium 3 months ago (my 15gal tropical reeftank is slowly taking shape), but as I live on the coast in northern California, I'm already researching what it would take to do a coldwater setup for natives. Fun stuff!! --Lars

zaheda

04/06/2011, 02:23 AM

I will be following this one, great tank man.

gabew

04/06/2011, 04:54 AM

Wow tons of replies! :D

Awesome stuff, Gabe! Thanks for the detailed report!

Thanks. I'll continue the updates as progress continues.

What an awesome idea!

Thanks!

Gasterosteus aculeatus I believe prickle or stickle backs in English.
I' ve got some myself, these are easy to breed as well!

Males get a very nice colour during breeding.

Ok thanks. It has some spikes on its back and I remembered I used to catch fish with those spikes and call them stickle backs. I just wasn't sure if it was the "proper" name. Good to know they are easy to breed though!

hey Gabe, great progress so far. It will be fun to continue following this thread. I just got back into an aquarium 3 months ago (my 15gal tropical reeftank is slowly taking shape), but as I live on the coast in northern California, I'm already researching what it would take to do a coldwater setup for natives. Fun stuff!! --Lars

Diffidently go for it! If you have easy access to the ocean they are great tanks. They can be just as beautiful as reef tanks and you save a fortune on livestock.

I will be following this one, great tank man.

Thanks!

Pittman

04/06/2011, 08:16 AM

In my limited experience stickle backs tend to be very hardy. Should be a great first addition(fish wise) to your tank

huig

04/06/2011, 08:26 AM

I' ve started with 5 and now have about 100, too bad you live on the other side of the pond.

gabew

04/06/2011, 03:28 PM

Good to know they are easy, diffidently good for a first fish. I hope I don't end up with a hundred though!!! Never mind I could just let them go. :lol:

norskfisk

04/07/2011, 02:05 AM

The shrimp is probably a Crangon sp. It looks identical to my Crangon crangon. But that species is not in the west atlantic.

Tip for collecting: Bring a flashlight on a still night. Bring a pond net with a long shaft. You will se many things. Fish are easy to catch. Run the net through seaweed to get hidden treasures.

gabew

04/07/2011, 05:02 AM

Cool thanks. I'll try and get to one of my next sites at night. There is one place I think I will go after the rock place. It has some really nice rocky tide pools. They are full of anemones, urchins, sponges, some really cool hydroids (I believe I found some Tubularia corocea there once), fish, and all sorts of awesome stuff. I think that will be the perfect place to do a night run. The shrimp could diffidently be a Crangon sp. now that you mention it, its hard to get a positive id.

gabew

04/13/2011, 07:11 PM

Well went on another collection trip this weekend and it’s time for an update.

I was originally going to go back to the place where I got my rocks to set some traps but there was a change of plans. Instead I went to a small dock just down the road from my house. I wasn't so sure if collecting animals from there would work because it is technically a brackish salt marsh. This is basically a bunch of rivers and channels that start as fresh water rivers and runoff then dump in the ocean. However due to the tides the water goes from almost fresh to almost as salty as the ocean daily. This means animals there are very hardy to salinity swings and putting them in a permanently salty environment should not be a huge problem. On top of that they are all the same species that live in the ocean and for all I know they might migrate between ocean and marsh (the marsh is very near the ocean). Anyhow I thought I would take the risk and set some traps. Here is a pic of the dock (way off in the distance to the left you can see some sand dunes, that is the same beach where I got my water, it is permanently salty).
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/neighborsdock.jpg?t=1302740311

This trip I would leave the traps out overnight in hope to get a bigger catch. For traps I used my milk carton traps, and my cage trap. However I decided to modify the cage trap. First I covered it with much finer 1mm plastic mesh to make sure nothing could escape. Then to make it even better I added a inward facing cone opening narrowing to about 3" across, essentially making it a simple lobster trap. With these modifications I think this will be an extremely effective trap for medium sized animals.

So I went out that evening to set the traps. Then came back the next morning to inspect my catch. I was amazed. The milk carton traps were practically crawling with shrimp, they easily had 5-10 EACH a few of them had snails and crabs and again I got one slightly smaller stickleback. Then I pulled up the cage trap and found my hopes to be true, there were about a dozen 1-4" crabs scrambling around. Of course I wasn't able to keep everything so in the end I went home with the fish, the snails, maybe 10 shrimp, and 5 of the smaller crabs. Here are the pics of the entire catch, not just what I kept.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/catch4-9-11.jpg?t=1302740972
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/crabcatch4-9-11.jpg?t=1302740992

Almost everything is doing well in the tank.

The crabs are doing very well. For the first day or two after I first added them they would mostly hide behind the rocks. Then they slowly got used to their new surroundings and now you can always see at least one of two crawling around the rocks and sand. Now that I have some crabs I am much more comfortable to feed more. Before there weren't many scavengers and any uneaten food would simply rot causing my first small ammonia spike up to .15. Now that I have scavengers however they can eat what is left over and I don't have to worry so much. I ended up getting two species of crab. The first is by far the most common around here it is the green crab Carcinus maenas. The second was a nice surprise and I believe it is the jonah crab Cancer borealis. Here are the pics.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/greencrab4-13-11.jpg?t=1302741452
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/jonahcrab4-13-11.jpg?t=1302741483

The snails I got are different then my other ones. I haven't yet gotten a positive ID on them but they are extremely common in the marshes often completely covering the bottom. They are doing well so far.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/marshsnails4-13-11.jpg?t=1302741597

All the new shrimp caused a slight problem. Some of them were getting sucked into the overflow and into the sump. There they would swim around until they got sucked into one of the pumps. I almost panicked when I woke up to find my simmer not working. After pulling the pump out I found three shrimp clogging the intake. To fix the problem I added some of the plastic mesh to cover the overflow and not let any debris and animals get it. This works fine the problem it is gets clogged and has to be cleaned daily. I think a more permanent solution to the problem will be adding filter socks to the ends of the overflow line. I hope that this will not only solve the problem of animals getting sucked into pumps but it will also solve the problem I have been having of debris in the water. There is almost always little bits of stuff floating around in the water. Bits of algae, sand, bits of food, ect. This is not only ugly in the DT but it also clogs up the reactor much faster. A filter sock will allow this to be quickly and efficiently remove from the water as well as keep animals safe.

One small change I made was with the powerheads. Before I had them blasting directly on the rocks. Though this provided extremely high flow areas it also left several dead spots when all the energy was dumped on the rocks. I changed this by having one point slightly towards the back wall and one slightly towards the front wall. Neither of them are pointing down at all simply horizontal. This creates a much more even circular pattern of flow throughout the whole tank. There are no more dead spots and not more super flow spots. This helps especially with feeding. Before all the food would quickly settle in the dead spots and rot, now the food moves all over and is distributed evenly through the whole system. I am much more pleased with this configuration.

The final thing I did this weekend was a bit of cooking. Before I had been using bits of the left over clam for food. This was good temporary but I wanted something more diverse and fancy. I went out to my lfs and bought myself one pack of krill, one pack of silversides, one pack of mysis shrimp, and two packs of brine shrimp. Then I went home and started cooking. First I mixed the krill, the silversides, and all the rest of the clam, added some salt water, and blended that up into a nice thick fishy paste. Then I added all the mysis and brine shrimp. I didn't blend them because I wanted them to keep their shape and size. Once this was nicely mixed I put some in the cubes from the mysis and brine shrimp and put the rest in a plastic container and froze it all. I have to say I am very pleased with the mixture. It is a perfect consistency, not to chunky not to fine, the animals love it, and it should be nice and balanced.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/makingfishfood.jpg?t=1302743025

All and all it was a very productive weekend. I am hoping to get the filter socks, bioballs, and ammonia alert soon. Then next weekend I am going to go those tide pools and try and get some more algae ad animals. All and all everything is going very well.

iwishtofish

04/13/2011, 10:57 PM

Gabe, glad to hear everything is going well, and I love your photojournalist-type updates! Good photography, as well.

About the crabs- I bet they will wreak havoc! As I was reading your post, I was thinking about them molting in your tank and wondering if they could safely make it past the soft-shell stage.

Food looks yummy!

gabew

04/14/2011, 04:53 AM

iwishtofish

04/17/2011, 08:20 AM

Thanks. Its really hard getting good pics with my point and shoot. I mostly take hundreds of pics and hope some come out good. When I get my DSLR I should have some better ones.

The crabs will be interesting. If they get too big or start to become a problem I can always release them and get smaller ones. I'm not sure what you mean by getting past the molting stage. Do you think they will get eaten when they are soft and vulnerable?

I'm not sure - I know around here the blue crabs, as they grow, shed their shell and then have to hide for a number of hours before their "new" shell hardens. If your crabs are the same, they may have difficulty hiding in such small confines.

gabew

04/18/2011, 01:10 PM

Ya ok thats what I thought you meant. I think it will be ok. They are hiding from predators and I don't think I will have any predators able to eat a crab in the tank.

Beaun

04/18/2011, 01:23 PM

Not sure if I have posted in this thread yet. I'm just south of you and had a temperate system not long ago similar to yours. I agree with the fish being one of the sticklebacks, http://www.gma.org/fogm/Gasterosteidae.htm. The snails look like either mud snails (Nassarius obsoletus) or periwinkle snails (Littorina littorea, an invasive species).

A few fish I would say are almost must haves are striped killifish and common mummichogs. Both display male/female dimorphism and in an aqiarum with a sunrise/sunset will really color up. The male mummichogs will really get a fantastic blue hue to them, I would QT these first to make sure you only get one or two males with two or three females.

http://www.gma.org/fogm/Fundulus_heteroclitus.htm
http://www.gma.org/fogm/Fundulus_majalis.htm

The fishes of the gulf of maine book/website (http://www.gma.org/fogm/Default.htm) is invaluable to any western atlantic fish person.

From personal experience, it is VERY difficult to keep barnacles alive as well as the macro algeas. Don't be surprised or discouraged to have them die back.

A great temperate macro tank, and how much work goes into it:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/10/aafeature

gabew

04/18/2011, 03:44 PM

That is really interesting thanks.

It looks like the unidentified snails might be mud snails. I already have lots of periwinkles and the new snails look different.

Thanks for the suggestions on the fish. Once I get out diving I will see if I can find them.

That book looks interesting. Is it an identification guild because I need a better one.

I agree on keeping algae. So far it has been hard. The fucus has been slowly dissolving, however the red one (which I now know thanks to the article is irish moss) has been either growing very slowly or stayed still, it has not died back however which is a good sign. I went on a collection trip yesterday and should be getting a more detailed update out soon. The first article is awesome for identification. I think I just got almost every algae he mentioned.

The second article was really helpful too. It looks like the only difference between our tanks (other than size) is lighting. It looks like I may have to upgrade my lights if I want more algae growth. I have a few options for upgrading my lighting. I do have two 24" 110w PC fixtures that I was originally going to use. I bought them on ebay a long time ago for growing plants. Here is the link to them http://cgi.ebay.com/2-ft-foot-T5-HO-GROW-LIGHT-LAMP-BULB-2ft-T-5-24-H-O-/400173399761?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2c317ed1 I have two blue bulbs and two red bulbs. I ended up going with LEDs to save on power (LEDs take 23.5w where the two PCs take 220w) as well as heat and because I didn't think I would need that much light. My other option would be something new like this http://www.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-48in-4x54W-T5-HO-Light-Fixture-Freshwater-p/52305p.htm this has a little less watts than the PCs, it is pretty cheap, it has additional LED moon lights, it is also designed for plants, I has an external ballast which means it can be away from the water to reduce heat, and it may be more convenient to have one smaller fixture designed for aquariums rather than two bulky fixtures designed for use in dry areas. On top of this I could sell the two PC fixtures for about as much as the T5 fixture. So what do you guys think should I upgrade my lighting? If it is the only thing keeping me from a nice lush algae filled tank I can live with the higher electrical bill.

gabew

04/18/2011, 04:03 PM

I was just thinking and there is a third option. I went with the marineland double bright system because it seames cheap but bright however marineland makes an even brighter fixture the marineland reef capable system. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+22443&pcatid=22443 Now the general consensus on these fixtures seems to be that they are bright but not quite reef bright. However if I am hearing right that seams to be the new consensus with coldwater tanks it they need it bright but not quite reef bright. Upgrading to this or to a similar higher intensity LED system would be the best solution, low heat, low wattage, high intensity, however it would be super expensive. Is it worth the $400 to keep the electric bill low?

Agu

04/18/2011, 05:27 PM

chrisqueenz

04/18/2011, 06:51 PM

I like this thread! Its different

iwishtofish

04/18/2011, 07:08 PM

Ya ok thats what I thought you meant. I think it will be ok. They are hiding from predators and I don't think I will have any predators able to eat a crab in the tank.

Except for another crab, perhaps! :D

gabew

04/19/2011, 05:02 AM

The 18" Reef Bright is strong enough to keep a clam healthy in my 10 gallon tank, but that's pretty shallow.

You might want to consider thePAR 38 LED bulbs (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-141/%28New%29-7-LED-PAR38/Detail) bulbs. Since you don't have to light the whole tank you'll get adequate light and the shimmer effect. You could probably get by with two or three if you used the 60 or 80 degree optics.

The other advantage of LEDs is minimal heat generated.

Thanks. PAR bulbs would be a slightly less expensive LED option. Three of those with 80 degree optics would probably be enough to get light through the whole tank and would run for $267 better then other LED options but still more expensive then florescent. You think the added cost would be worth it?
I like this thread! Its different

Thanks! Coldwater tanks are diffidently different but still fascinating.

Except for another crab, perhaps! :D

Perhaps! We will see. :D

gabew

04/20/2011, 07:49 PM

Well this update is all about algae!

So first I just ordered the filter socks, bioballs, and ammonia alert and they should be coming soon.

So now about algae. As I said in the last update I had a small amount of ammonia which I thought was due to shrimps getting caught in pumps and dieing. Well I fixed that problem but my ammonia kept rising along with nitrite and nitrate. I began to worry and stopped feeding to try and see what was the problem. I began to realize that my all important nutrient absorbing algae was not doing so good. I have now realized that I need to upgrade my lighting to keep algae alive. Well the refugium has much stronger lighting and that algae down there was growing, but there wasn't enough to keep up with everything. My only solution is to add more algae to the refugium to keep up until I can get better lights and start filling the DT. I also wanted to look for more pods to begin to populate the system and eat any debris.

So with the goal of getting more algae and pods for the refugium I went down to the tide pools. Well the tides were not exactly on our sides nor were the waves. Low tide was at 5:00 which meant either getting there really late or really early to catch the low tide or go at a medium tide. Well I wasn't able to get out at the exact low tide but I did manage to get there around 2:00 for a medium lowering tide. However this was what it was like when we arrived.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apwaves.jpg

Though it was a medium tide the large waves made it impossible to safely reach the good tide pools on already slippery algae covered rocks. Fortunately this is where the huge New England tides actually help. After spending about an half an hour getting the equipment and exploring the area for good spots the tides had gone down enough to allow assess to the highest tide pools.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ap1.jpg?t=1303347087

Now the tide restrictions actually forced me to explore each tide pool better. Because there were only a few that were assessable at any given time I was forced to look longer in each pool for every pod, every kind of algae, everything interesting to add to the tank. Then by the time I was finished searching the pool the tide had gone down revealing more new pools!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ap3.jpg?t=1303347351

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ap4.jpg?t=1303347378

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ap5.jpg?t=1303347411

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/aptidepool2.jpg?t=1303347437

Now these tide pools are nothing like the large, diverse, low tide pools where you can find all the urchins, hydroids, anemones, fish, etc, however it wasn't all that bad because I was only really there for the algae anyway. Never the less I was able to find a few different things in some pools.

As always there were snails. Lots and lots of snails.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apsnails.jpg

There were quite a lot of smaller mussels. I managed to grab a few for the tank.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apbarnacles.jpg

And possibly my favorite find for the whole trip. One lone tiny baby anemone. (see it there in the middle?)
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apanemone.jpg

Finally towards the end of the trip the tide was low enough to allow assess to the seaweed covered rocks. Though so far it has not done so far in the tank I grabbed some to put in the DT and hoped for the best.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apseaweed.jpg?t=1303348029

Well I went home that day with a bucket full or different algae, tons of pods, a few new snails, and a few mussels.

gabew

04/20/2011, 07:50 PM

Now that everything is in the tank everything is doing much better. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all back down to zero even with normal feeding. The DT looks great with all the new algae floating around. I REALLY hope it survives because is looks really good!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/fts4-20-11.jpg

The refugium is also doing great. It is absolutely overflowing with algae. My hope is that slowly that algae will begin to migrate up to the DT via spores or whatever algae reproduce with. One change I made to the refugium turned out to be a new trend, because guess what I did even before people suggested I replace my LEDs with fluorescent? I decided to replace my LED fuge light with a simple fluorescent one! Now don't get me wrong I love my the LEDs, they are cool (bot temp wise and :dance:) , they are efficient, they are bright, however in this case I just didn't think they were necessary. The fuge was to grow algae not corals. I spent over a hundred dollars on the LEDs where I could have bought a fluorescent light with a reflector that took only a little more power (18w vs 26w) put out more light, and was only a little bit hotter for only $10. Anyway I replaced the LEDs and so far am pleased with the fluorescent. The algae has been doing great which suggests all my DT needs is more light.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/refugium4-20-11.jpg

So far everything is looking good. The refugium is now full of algae and that alone seams to be able to handle the bioload. Soon I should be getting bioballs which will give the algae a bit of a hand there. Right now everything is going very good. Everything looks good and is sustainable for now. I still need to decide what to upgrade my lights to. Right now I am leaning towards the 4" fluorescent fixture because of light output, convenience, and moon lighting. I can live with the extra power. I think I will give it a week or two to see how everything does before I make my final decision. Any more advice would be awesome.

iwishtofish

04/23/2011, 09:19 PM

I think the tank is looking great! Did you bring home any animals from this latest excursion, or just seaweed?

Is the baby anemone that really, really tiny thing in the center of the picture?

gabew

04/24/2011, 06:55 AM

Thanks. Your tank is looking good too.

I mostly brought home seaweed and algae but I also got a few smaller mussels, a few snails, and tons of pods. Not much.

The anemone is the tiny yellow thing. It was fully open and it looked a lot bigger and more anemone like but by the time I got my camera it had started to close up, too bad. Here is a pic with it circled.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/apanemonecircled.jpg

iwishtofish

04/24/2011, 07:07 AM

Yeah, that's what I thought, but thanks for circling it. Your pictures really make me miss living in New England!

gabew

04/24/2011, 11:50 AM

No problem. It is great here, though a bit cold for my taste, I'm from California originally :D

gabew

05/07/2011, 07:44 PM

Well I am waaaayyyyy... overdue for an update so here ya go!

Firstly I just ordered my new lights! :celeb1: I ended up going with the Odyssea fixture, really hoping I don't regret it.
Secondly was literally just ready to go ahead and get my nice new DSLR (I ended up going for the refurbished T2i) so I can take some decent pics and, GAHHHHH CANON IS OUT OF STOCK NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :fun2: :uzi: :blown: as soon as they are back in stock I will get it and start shooting like crazy.

Thirdly all my new stuff came and with that and some stuff with home depot I was able fix some things.

I added the filter socks to the return line. So far they are doing an awesome job keeping the water free of debris. They seem to clog in about 4-5 days. A bit fast but not to bad. I am changing them out when they overflow and am trying out cleaning them in bleach. We'll see how it goes.

I also put the bio balls in a few places. I tried to chose the highest flow areas. First I filled the overflow box with some. This is a good place because not only does the falling water create the perfect oxygenated area for bacteria but also it keeps much of the debris and air out of the siphon. I then put the rest in between the baffles in the sump. I think I will need to give those a few weeks to develop a healthy bacteria population before they will start being effective.

I went to home depot and got some eggcrate and made a nice PVC stand for the skimmer to go in the sump. Before I had had the skimmer sitting on some unused plastic pots. They worked but were very difficult to use. The most annoying part was that they floated which meant every time I moved the skimmer I would have to redo the whole thing. The new stand is sooooo much better. It is much more strong, stable, and easy to use.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/sumpstand.jpg

The skimmer itself is running amazing. It is producing a full cup of foam in a day and the a nice half cup of thick, dark, black, disgusting, stinky simmate in a week . Yay :D (as you can see I have to change it before it gets too full or else...)
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/skimmer5-7-11.jpg

I also got some 1/4" plastic gutter netting at home depot. With this and the eggcrate I made a screen that I put in the refugium to keep algae from being pulled over and clogging all the pumps. Works perfectly. Before I just had to have a very very slow water flow through the refugium section too minimize algae getting sucked over but now I can have a much better flow through there hopefully allowing the algae to remove nutrients more efficiently. (sorry for the blurry pic)
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/refugiummeshstrainer.jpg

gabew

05/07/2011, 07:56 PM

Well last weekend I was able to get out to do a small collection trip back to the dock across the street and got some cool new stuff.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/neighborsdock4-24-11.jpg

It was just at low tide and there was a distinct line of empty clam shells right at the water.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/shells4-24-11.jpg

I got a bunch more of those snails. I like them more than the periwinkles, they aren't very adventurous where the periwinkles are always crawling out of the tank or into the overflow, they are more interesting with their little snorkel thing, and they also keep mostly to the sandbed to collect debris.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/mudsnails4-24-11.jpg

I also got two new mussels of a different kind. They seem to be quite hardy as I found several in the mud very high up where I bet they are only underwater for a few hours every day.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/mussle14-24-11.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/mussle24-24-11.jpg

I found several mud tide pools full of little fish. With my net I was able to cathc about a dozen. I wasn't really sure if I would have been able to keep that many but I thought it was worth a try. Plus they are used to the very cramped spaces in a pool so it might work.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/marshtidepool2-24-11.jpg

aday2remmbr

05/07/2011, 08:05 PM

this is very interesting, great looking tank!

schoch79

05/07/2011, 08:40 PM

This is great. I live in Pennsylvania.....I may just have to make a few trips to Jersey some time. I envy you having all of that in your back yard. About how much more does having that chiller on all the time raise your electric bill?

gabew

05/08/2011, 05:49 AM

this is very interesting, great looking tank!

Thanks!

This is great. I live in Pennsylvania.....I may just have to make a few trips to Jersey some time. I envy you having all of that in your back yard. About how much more does having that chiller on all the time raise your electric bill?

Thanks. I was surprised that it is actually not so bad. Though it takes about 500watts (4.8amps at 120volts) it doesn't run most of the time. I would say it takes about 100watts on average. Although it diffidently is on less and less often as it gets warmer.

gabew

05/08/2011, 07:31 PM

Well all the stuff I got at the marsh last weekend has been doing great in the tank so here is an update of things.

First you probably noticed that I changed my avatar to that pic of my fish. I thought that now that I had some reefing related pics I might as well have a reefing related avatar. I like it so far, however I may change it if I get some better pics. I'll try to not change it too much as I know it can be very confuting what someone changes their avatar (at least it is for me).

All my fish have been fascinating the past week. The new fish I got at the dock have been very interesting. The first day after I added them they were doing very badly. They quickly started to simply float around, getting stuck to the power heads and overflow. I suspect they simply were stressed from the big change in conditions. They were no doubt used to a much warmer less salty pool. However after a few days they were over it and were out and swimming about very nicely. They add much more movement and life to the tank making it much more interesting. I have yet to get a positive ID on them.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/marshfish5-8-11.jpg

My sticklebacks have also been very interesting the past week. The second one had not been as active as the first one. The first one was hiding for the first few days and was out and about after a week. The second one however was being much more shy. Even after several weeks he had been staying in the left corner under the return pipe. I began to notice he was a slightly different color, I was not able to quite tell though because he was always in the shadows.Then finally this week he has been coming out even when I was around. And to my amazement he was turning a distinct bright red color. To add to my bewilderment the first stickleback started to develop a odd pinkish budge at the base of its tale. My only explanation would be spawning! Several people said that it wasn't rare for these to breed in captivity so I think that might be what is happening! I would guess the second one is the male and is turning red to show dominance or something and that the first is the pregnant female. I won't know for sure until I have a swarm of tiny sticklebacks! :D
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/secondstickleback5-8-11.jpg

All then new snails are doing very well. As I hoped they prefer to stay in the water and love cleaning the sandbed!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/mudsnails5-8-11.jpg

The barnacles have all been doing very well. They are always open and feeding. The new mussels I believe are ribbed mussels (Ischadium demissum). I have been finding small baby mussels growing in the refugium so either I got some hitchhikers or they too are breeding!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ribbedmussel5-8-11.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/bluemussels5-8-11.jpg

The barnacles have also been thriving. Many people have said they have found them difficult but I have found them very easy. Out of all the ones that were on the rocks when I first got them I would have to say 30% died on the trip to my tank simply by being crushed. Out of the ones that made it 90% are still alive and feeding. And guess what, they are breading too! Every day I am finding tiny 1/16" barnacles popping up everywhere! I'm really not sure what it is but I seem to have no problem keeping barnacles.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/babybarnacles5-8-11.jpg

The one thing that I am not totally happy with are the crabs. Its not that they aren't doing well, its that they are doing too well. I think I underestimated their size when I caught them. Now that they are in the tank I rear they are being too aggressive. Its not that I don't want crabs its just these 3-4" crabs are way too big. I have two that I really like, the smallest I got in the trap which is about 2" in the future I think that will be the maximum size, and also this one tiny 1" guy I got with the refugium algae dropped into the tank and forgot about until I saw him yesterday. I am much more comfortable having a dozen or so crabs of 1-1.5" then half a dozen monsters. The other crab I am going to keep is the pink one (which I realized is actually a Altanic rock crab Cancer irroratus) he is much slower and more gentle as well as more interesting. Here is a pic of my 2" guy.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/smallcrab5-8-11.jpg

Well so far everything is doing very well in my tank, with the exception of the light deprived algae. The fact that things are breeding means everything is very happy. Now I just can't wait until the water is warm enough to get out and dive!

gabew

05/09/2011, 04:52 PM

Also forgot to mention this but while the new fish weren't doing so good I did lose one. Found him stuck to the powerhead, not sure if that killed him though as several others were constantly getting stuck. It wasn't so bad as it was one our of a dozen but it was still the sad first fish to die. :(

Bnortz

05/09/2011, 06:01 PM

set up is looking nice! sorry to hear about the fish...

this has likely already been addressed but what temp do you keep the tank at?

gabew

05/09/2011, 06:09 PM

Thanks.

I am keeping the tank at the same temperature at the ocean around here witch varies.

Also this weekend I did a lot of stuff around water and light. First using some info about monthly water temperatures I made my full chart for what the temp of my tank will be each month. Here is what I ended up with.

January - 40 degrees
February - 36 degrees
March - 41 degrees
April - 47 degrees
May - 56 degrees
June - 62 degrees
July - 66 degrees
August - 68 degrees
September - 64 degrees
October - 57 degrees
November - 51 degrees
December - 42 degrees

iwishtofish

05/09/2011, 08:18 PM

Thoroughly enjoying your updates and the pictures, Gabe! That stickleback picture is my favorite of all! I'm really glad to hear things are going so well, and am sorry that you lost your first fish as well (bet yours was cheaper, though :rolleye1: ).

Keep up the good work! :)

gabew

05/10/2011, 05:20 AM

Thanks. Again very sorry about your fish. It is always hard losing something no matter the price, but I know yours had much more sentimental value being the first.

noahm

05/10/2011, 08:29 AM

I like your idea of following the local temp scheme. If you cycle your daylength as well, you are likely to see a few events such as breeding etc. that others just don't get to see. It is much more difficult to reproduce in a warm water reef where the triggers are a lot more subtle.

Looking good.

gabew

05/10/2011, 02:22 PM

Yep that was exactly my thought. I am cycling both temperature and light cycles in the hopes that it will recreate a more natural environment and also like you said possible induce some breeding and other annual behavior.

AquaticEngineer

05/12/2011, 02:41 PM

Cool tank ;) ( pun intended, lol)

I have a pair of 110 gallon Marineland Lobster systems converted over to coldwater marine tanks, and a smaller holding system all setup in my garage.

I'm in the process of setting up a 300 gallon display tank that will be in my living room. The tank measures 60" x 24" x 48" made of 1.25" thick acrylic and will be plumbed into the 2 lobster tanks out in the garage.

I probably should make a thread like this over here some day, but I already have threads going on nano-reef, Azoox , PNWMAS.org, and Temperatereef.

I'm gonna use one my lobster tanks as sumps more of less for the larger tank inside and one of them will be filled with a variety of Ulga.

I'm lighting my tanks with some DIY 50w LED spotlights I've been testing out.

Hit me up some time if u wanna talk coldwater tanks :D

gabew

05/12/2011, 03:07 PM

Cool thanks. A 300g system sounds awesome, I can dream lol. Any info on the led lights? Do you mean 50w total led lighting or several 50w fixtures?

PS is it just me or did RC just add a bunch of new emoticons? Like beating a dead hourse? :deadhorse: :deadhorse1: Party stuff? :hb2: :xlbirthday: :bdaysmile:And guys hitting their heads on walls? :headwally: :headwalls: :headwallblue: :debi: lol

AquaticEngineer

05/12/2011, 04:25 PM

Cool thanks. A 300g system sounds awesome, I can dream lol. Any info on the led lights? Do you mean 50w total led lighting or several 50w fixtures?

The tank inside will be roughly 300 gallons, and then the 2x 110 gallon lobster tanks will be plumbed into it, bringing the total system to a little over 500 gallons, give or take ;)

It is a single 50w emitter ( one chip with 50 1w diodes) , with a small reflector and 60 degree optic. Its putting out 400 par at 12" with a 12" x 12" spread. At 24" it puts out 150 par and has a 24" x 24" spread. Total cost per fixture all wired up was $74 :D

I'm making a few more for myself and one for my friend who is doing a coldwater tank full of Anthoplura Xanthgramica (Giant Green Anemone) green Ulga, and green Tidal Sculpins with native rock in a 24" x 24" marineland shellfish display tank I refurbished a while back.

Here's a link to my photobucket album of my coldwater tanks (http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/)

VIDEO OF 50W LED OVER HOLDING TANK (http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/?action=view&current=VID_20110428_215706.mp4)

VIDEO OF 50W LED OVER ONE SIDE OF MY FRIENDS REEF (http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/?action=view&current=VID_20110428_215706.mp4)

Here's the final product of the LED light:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210428.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210441.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210453.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210622.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210811.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/Stuwobbe/Coldwater%20tanks/IMG_20110427_210034.jpg

gabew

05/12/2011, 04:45 PM

I diffidently lack the technical skilz to do something like your diy led setup but it looks really cool.

Your tank is awesome by the way. Some of those fish are awesome! Those starfish are massive! That big shrimp looks tropical! Those gorgonian are sick! Some of those anemones are sweet! I rrrrreeeeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy hope I can get some better collection trips in soon! I need more cool stuff!

And on a similar note I was talking to one of my friends who happens to be a huge fisherman/lobsterman and he says if he finds anything interesting (snails, fish, starfish, crabs, etc) he will keep it for me! Hopefully I will get some sweet stuff from him!

AquaticEngineer

05/12/2011, 05:38 PM

Yeah keep an eye out if there is anyone up there that uses bottom trawls, those are what bring up the most bycatch.

gabew

05/12/2011, 05:45 PM

My friend uses regular traps but 'round here there are no doubt plenty of different fishermen.

AquaticEngineer

05/12/2011, 06:01 PM

I diffidently lack the technical skilz to do something like your diy led setup but it looks really cool.
It was super simple, all I did was package it nicely :D The driver was already put together, I just put it and the guts from a phone charger (to power the fan attached to the heatsink) into a black project box. All I really did was solder a few wires, and cram it in a gutted $11 light fixture from Home Depot.

Your tank is awesome by the way. Some of those fish are awesome! Those starfish are massive! That big shrimp looks tropical! Those gorgonian are sick! Some of those anemones are sweet! I rrrrreeeeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy hope I can get some better collection trips in soon! I need more cool stuff!
Hey thanks :D My favorite fish in there is the Sarcastic Fringehead, but he hides most of the time. I'm going to separate the deep water stuff from the tidal stuff soon and then I should see him more often. The gunnels and sculpins are really entertaining as well, super friendly, you can hand feed them :D The starfish have actually been growing pretty quickly in there, I buy live snails from the seafood market to feed them and they munch on them pretty quickly. The biggest shrimp are Spot prawns(Pandalus platyceros), and the smaller ones are sidestriped shrimp (Pandalus dispar).

Keep an eye out for Gorgonians when your diving, or as bycatch from fishing vessles.

I'm taking a collecting trip on the 19th of this month out here, I don't dive yet, but there will be a -1.9ft tide that morning :D

And on a similar note I was talking to one of my friends who happens to be a huge fisherman/lobsterman and he says if he finds anything interesting (snails, fish, starfish, crabs, etc) he will keep it for me! Hopefully I will get some sweet stuff from him!

Yeah keep an eye out if there is anyone up there that uses bottom trawls, those are what bring up the most bycatch. Things like basket stars, brittle stars, feather stars, and gorgonians will get snagged up in crab traps pretty regularly too.

gabew

05/12/2011, 06:14 PM

It was super simple, all I did was package it nicely :D The driver was already put together, I just put it and the guts from a phone charger (to power the fan attached to the heatsink) into a black project box. All I really did was solder a few wires, and cram it in a gutted $11 light fixture from Home Depot.

Trust me I learned with my leds. I will find some way to screw it up :spin2:

Hey thanks :D My favorite fish in there is the Sarcastic Fringehead, but he hides most of the time. I'm going to separate the deep water stuff from the tidal stuff soon and then I should see him more often. The gunnels and sculpins are really entertaining as well, super friendly, you can hand feed them :D The starfish have actually been growing pretty quickly in there, I buy live snails from the seafood market to feed them and they munch on them pretty quickly. The biggest shrimp are Spot prawns(Pandalus platyceros), and the smaller ones are sidestriped shrimp (Pandalus dispar).

Keep an eye out for Gorgonians when your diving, or as bycatch from fishing vessles.

I'm taking a collecting trip on the 19th of this month out here, I don't dive yet, but there will be a -1.9ft tide that morning :D

Yeah keep an eye out if there is anyone up there that uses bottom trawls, those are what bring up the most bycatch. Things like basket stars, brittle stars, feather stars, and gorgonians will get snagged up in crab traps pretty regularly too.

Sweet. I'll keep an eye out for gorgonians and stuff when I start diving. I had no idea they were temperate. And just checked, -.3ft low tide at 3:00 this weekend. COLECTION TRIP!!! :celeb1: Hopefully will get some sweet new stuff!

gabew

05/13/2011, 07:51 PM

Guess what just came!
The new lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :celeb1: :dance: :lol2:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/odyssealigtbox.jpg

So far I am extremely pleased the only problem I had on the whole thing was that one of the mounting brackets was bent. It was very easy to bend back by and though so it was not a problem. So far I have absolutely no regrets for going this route. I turned these on and boy they are BRIGHT!! :eek2: :eek2: They make the tank look a million times brighter and healthier. I can practically see the algae growing already! There are several reasons why I like the new lights more than the leds 1) obviously they are much brighter which means much better growth 2) they are 48" where the leds were 36" meaning they cast even light over the whole tank and don't leave shadows on the ends 3) they have moonlights on a separate power chord so I can enjoy the tank all the time 4) it has two separate ballasts and power chords each controlling two bulbs meaning I can have two bulbs turn on and off later simulating dawn and dusk 5) I can chose different types of bulbs such as plant bulbs (what I have in there now), daylight bulbs, antinic bulbs, etc allowing for more experimentation with how to make the tank look and grow best instead of being stuck with the supplied leds. And on top of all this I really can't say the odyssea fixtures seem all that crappy. It might just be that I have never had a $400 fixture to compare them to but to be honest I have no complaints.

Here is a new fts under the new light. SO MUCH BRIGHTER :dance:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/fts5-13-11.jpg

And now an absolutely horrible pic under the led moonlights.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/ftsmoonlights5-13-11.jpg

tymon

05/13/2011, 08:13 PM

sweet tank. i caught blue crabs and put them in a cold saltwater tank a few years ago it was really fun catching them.

gabew

05/14/2011, 07:00 AM

Thanks. It has been really fun catching things for the tank.

gabew

05/15/2011, 05:22 PM

Well yesterday was a perfect tide. It was a -0.3 tide and it was right at 3:05, it wasn't very cold out and the waves were minimal. All this lead to by far the best collection trip EVER. I would also like to say in advance that I am sorry for the lack of too many pics. I didn't want to get my camera wet so I didn't use it much. However I just bought a underwater case on ebay to solve this problem. It is a dikapack type case rated for 33'. It should be awesome to use on collection trips, diving trips, boat trips, etc. I also don't really want to spend several thousand dollars to get a nice case for my dslr so now I can use my p&s for most trips and if it springs a leak it is a way smaller deal than if I ruin my dslr.

I arrived around 2:20 leaving a good amount of time before low tide. This is what it looked like when I first got there.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4281.jpg

The tide was way further out then we had gone last time and there were tons of awesome tidepools open. Some were quite large. Some full of fucus. Some full of other algae. There was obviously much more life in these pools than the ones from last trip. I actually was amazed how bad the old pools were. I found some of the ones I had looked in last time half way up the rocks! They were practically empty compared to some of these new pools. Here is one of the new pools (I really need to get a polarizing filter!)
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4287.jpg

I was absolutely amazed when after just a few minutes searching I found something I had been really really hoping I would find. A nudibranch! These little guys might just be my favorite thing ever. For some reason they absolutely fascinate me. Their beautiful colors and shapes! I for some reason thought they were super rare as I had never in my life found one in the wild. However today I was able to find some. Not sure if this was a good spot for them or if I just hadn't been looking hard enough. No matter what the reason by the end of the day I managed to find not one but FOUR of these beauties!! And not only that but TWO different species!!!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4290.jpg

As I continued looking I found many many more amazing things. Tons and tons of different types beautiful algae. Amazing reds. Lots of uvla, some cool kelp like stuff, and some new fucus (even though so far I have had terrible luck with fucus I thought I might as well try one more time with the new lights to see if there is any hope). I am really hoping with the new lights all this will thrive.

Skimming my net through the seaweed I found literally thousands of pods. So many pods!! :celeb3: I found many new types of pods including some really cool rather large (up to an inch long) isopods. They should really like hiding in all new algae.

I learned that mussels are awesome yesterday. Not because the mussel itself is all that cool but because of what attaches to it. All sorts or awesome stuff attaches to them like algae, coraline algae, sponges, anemones, hydroids, bryozoans, barnacles, everything. Then all you need to do is remove the barnacles from the rock and put then it the tank and within a week they will reattach themselves. This helps a ton because often times most stuff it attached to rocks huge rocks meaning it is impossible to take them without killing them. Mussles are like natures free, waterproof, self replenishing glue. I grabed a ton of different mussels hoping to get a bunch of different neat hitchhikers.

As I said before the crabs were too big. On Friday I took them all out and put them in the sump where they couldn't do any damage. I am hoping to get back to the marsh to return them soon. On the trip thought I found tons more small crabs. I probably got about a dozen all less than an inch across and of several different species.

Continuing to search I found some more sweet stuff. As I was hoping I found several nice sea urchins. I found two nicely sized ones around two inches across and maybe four or five smaller ones of less than an inch. They were green and had nice short blunt spines.

Another thing I was really really hoping I would find were starfish. I was really happy when I started finding some in one tide pool. I found about six all less than an inch across and light pink and orange in color. They were tiny and really cute I am really hoping they will grow to a nice size in the tank.

One thing I was quite disappointed about was that I was not able to get any good anemones. I was really surprised by this as anemones seem to be really common. I was able to find a few patches of the same kind I had found last trip just larger. The largest were around 3/4" across. Even though I found some it was impossible to get them off without killing them. I was lucky enough to get one tiny guy attached to a mussel. I really hope in the future that I have more luck. Maybe this was just the wrong kind of tide pool or I wasn't looking hard enough. Here is a pic of one of the best patches I found. As you can see they are almost all in the crevices.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4292.jpg

Another thing I am disappointed about is that I wasn't able to find any new fish. I was looking for some new rock dwelling fish but saw absolutely none the entire trip. Again might have been a bad spot or I just wasn't looking hard enough.

Altogether it was an amazing trip. I went home with some awesome stuff and am really hoping it continues to thrive in the tank.

AquaticEngineer

05/15/2011, 11:24 PM

buzzy

05/16/2011, 12:15 AM

I love the coldwater nudibranches too, here's a couple from my old coldwater tank
Gem nudi and clown nudis
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/carlbevan/coldwater%20V2/gemnudi1.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/carlbevan/coldwater%20V2/clownnudi.jpg

gabew

05/16/2011, 05:02 AM

Next time take a hammer and chisel, that way when you find an anemone you want you can take it with a small piece of rock that it is already attached too. That's how I collect all my anemones now, its not worth damaging the foot trying to scrape them off, and most of the time the anemones just jump off the rock you bring them home on anyways.

Your a genius! :idea:

I love the coldwater nudibranches too, here's a couple from my old coldwater tank
Gem nudi and clown nudis

Wow those are sweet! :bigeyes: I hope I can find more nudis on my next trips I really love them.

iwishtofish

05/16/2011, 09:00 AM

Really neat stuff! :)

AquaticEngineer

05/16/2011, 09:01 AM

Your a genius! :idea:

Walmart is a tidepoolers best friend :lolspin: I literally walk around aisle by aisle some times looking for different things that I could use next time I go out.

They also had the best deal on neoprene chest waders.

LOTUS50GOD

05/16/2011, 09:35 AM

great pics... Love the nudis

gabew

05/16/2011, 03:16 PM

Really neat stuff! :)

Thanks! Everything is doing great in the tank so I will get some more pics out soon.

Walmart is a tidepoolers best friend :lolspin: I literally walk around aisle by aisle some times looking for different things that I could use next time I go out.

They also had the best deal on neoprene chest waders.

Who would have guessed! :lol2:

great pics... Love the nudis

Thanks me too :)

Oh and one more thing MY NEW DSLR JUST SHIPPED AND WILL BE HERE IN THREE DAYS OMG!!!!! :celeb1: :bounce2: :celeb3: :dance: :lol2:

gabew

05/16/2011, 03:20 PM

Oh and also in case you didn't notice I finally got around to asking the mods to change the thread name from "My 55g Cold Water Aquarium" to the more correct "My 55g Coldwater Aquarium" thanks to RokleM for doing that.

AquaticEngineer

05/16/2011, 03:32 PM

ezerasurfr

05/16/2011, 04:32 PM

I've been following this whole thread. I'm very impressed by how eco-friendly and cost effective (live-stock based anyway) your tank is. Makes me want to start a CW tank since I live in Jersey and could probably find plenty of my own stock. Keep on updating, I'm loving this!

gabew

05/16/2011, 04:52 PM

Uhh ohhh, if you want it to be REALLY correct it should be "Temperate Aquarium" :D

Oh no! My life is ruined! :lolspin:

I've been following this whole thread. I'm very impressed by how eco-friendly and cost effective (live-stock based anyway) your tank is. Makes me want to start a CW tank since I live in Jersey and could probably find plenty of my own stock. Keep on updating, I'm loving this!

Thanks. The free livestock diffidently saves tons of money. Lets see saturday I got 5 starfish might go for $10 each, 6 urchins again $10 a pop, 4 nudis for say $15 each, maybe two dozen snails for $2 each, maybe a dozen $5 crabs, and whats gotta be $20 worth of algae. So lets see to buy everything I got satruday in an hour might be $200-$300 WOW! :eek1:

gabew

05/18/2011, 07:05 PM

So everything has been THRIVING in the tank. I couldn't be more pleased. And even better............ MY DSLR IS COMING TOMORROW!!!!!! Should be able to get some even nicer pics soon!

Lets start with the nudis. I managed to identify them, like I said there were two different species. The one I got a pic of last time was a red-gilled nudi (Coryphella rufibranchialis). The other kind I managed to find was a bushy-backed sea slug (Dendronotus frondosus). So far they have been doing pretty good. I can't tell if all four are still alive but I keep seeing both species popping up randomly just not at the same time. I put one guy in a small clump of algae. He stayed there for at least a day and a small stingy tube like thing appeared soon afterwords. I am really really hoping they were its eggs, however I have no reason to believe that they were his eggs or even eggs at all, but if they were that would be awesome. Later I managed to spot a really tiny nundi on a snail. It was only like 2mm but it means than either those were eggs or that there were a bunch more small ones that I got on algae of something that I didn't notice. Either way it is good and means even if some die there might be more to take their places. Here is a pic of the second kind I got.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4434.jpg

The starfish have also been doing really good and look great. They can move surprisingly fast. Like the nudis they keep popping up everywhere. For some reason they seem to find spots they like where they can sit for days without moving. Then all of a sudden they decide they don't like it and they move. They are really small and really cute. But like I said it would be nice if they get a bit bigger. It would make them more noticeable and interesting. I also don't actually know what they eat. I home it is small snails because I have WAY too many of those lol.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4420.jpg

More on echinoderms. The urchins have been acting similar to the starfish. They move around popping up in different places, sometimes they stay somewhere for a while. I think the bigger ones are a good size so I hope that is how big they get and then the small ones will get that big.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4300.jpg

So like I said mussels are really cool for what they have on them. So I got a bunch of mussels and put them throughout the tank. Amungst the hitchhikers I have seen are, tons of algae, some really cool coralline algae which I really hope begins to populate the tank, one tiny anemone, sponges, lots of different bryozoans, lots of different hydroids, and of course plenty of barnacles. I'm hoping these things slowly spread themselves through the tank.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4385.jpg

Some other mollusks, the snails and limpets have been doing really good. Going all around eating algae. Some of the limpets even have their own hitchhikers.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4344.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4342.jpg

The crabs have been much better. I like smaller ones a lot more. I managed to find several different species this time instead of just green crabs (which fyi are invasive). Haven't been able to id them though.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4407.jpg

Finally the isopods. They have been surprisingly cool. I believe I have different species or at least lots of different colors. They have been the only pods to be active 24/7. They are always either crawling around on algae or swimming around getting thrown all over by the powerheads. It is really amusing to watch them, they almost look like they themselves are having fun playing in the flow, it must be like a roller coaster!
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4411.jpg

gabew

05/18/2011, 07:42 PM

Well now for the algae! With the new lights the algae has finally been doing great! Really happy to finally get that growing good. It is really beautiful, the reds, yellows, and greens flowing in the current. I actually calculated how much more light I was getting and was blown away. So it says here (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+21973&pcatid=21973) that the led fixture puts out 1,200 lumens not terrible. So I looked to see how much a standard 4 bulb 48" T5 HO fixture puts out and guess what, not twice as much, not even ten times more but 16 times more light at 20,000 lumens!!! Each bulb puts out 5,000 lumens more then quadruple the leds! No duh I am getting more growth! :dance: Here are all the different kinds I have collected.

Lets start with the basic but beautiful ulva. It has to be one of my favorite algaes. The neon green color is just beautiful flowing through the tank. I managed to get a lot on the recent trip attached to other algae. It looks awesome in the tank, it adds so much more color.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4337.jpg

Now for some reds. Lets start with my favorite. I was super fortunate to find this guy. He looks to be a deep red form of kelp. It has the same thick texture. Not only is it beautiful but I was able to find it attached to a mussel so I could bring it back totally intact.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4310.jpg

Another favorite. This tiny guy is really cool. He is red but just the way he looks is very interesting. You will have to see the pic to get a good idea. He like branches out into an almost lace like pattern. Really cool to look at up close.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4397.jpg?t=1305767853

Another red guy. Not the best pic and not the most beautiful algae either. Sill nice though.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4391-1.jpg

Got plenty of the irish moss. It has a really deep almost purple color. Looks really nice.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4322.jpg

Now for another really cool guy. It looks to be similar to irish moss except that it goes from red at the base to yellow at the tips. Really beautiful. Really want to get more of that in the future.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4327.jpg

And like I said before I got some nice new fucus. Even though I have had terrible luck in the past with this I wanted to try again one last time. And I have to say it looks to be so far so good. I cannot quite tell but I think it might be growing again. It is keeping its nice yellow growing tips that it lost pretty fast under leds. I really really really hope it keeps growing because it is a really nice algae. Its little float things keep it up and off the rocks where it adds to the otherwise empty space at the top of the tank, it also gets good flow which constantly makes it slowly move around. Really hope it does good so I can get tons more. I mean it really is natural, go to any rocky beach around here and 90% of the algae is fucus.

Finally an updated fts. Now for some reason my p&s absolutely refuses to take good a fts. Really not sure why but they always come out horrible. Anyway here it is until I get my dslr. I have been really playing with where to put the algae trying to get a good look. Kind of like aquascaping all over again. I like it except for the right side under the overflow, it is just too empty. I can't put algae under there because it is in the shadows. I think next time I go out I will get a rock or two to fill in the gap. It is just driving me nuts having a hole there! :headwally:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/100_4485.jpg

Well there you have it. My first great collection trip, new lights, and everything is thriving. Super happy so far!

schoch79

05/18/2011, 08:54 PM

iwishtofish

05/18/2011, 09:35 PM

Jeez, Gabe - I hope you never get tired of documenting this! Every time I read something new that you post, I think of how creative you are and have a touch for making things work! :)

How much do you find that you are having to recycle your algae? Are there any tank inhabitants that you regularly lose, or is it hard to tell because there is so much cover (or the crabs take care of the bodies :bigeyes: )?

Any ammonia popping up? That, I suppose, would be an indicator of any major imbalance...

gabew

05/19/2011, 05:04 AM

I'm curious though. I don't remember seeing what kind of LED's you are using and didnt bother looking back through the thread but with everyone using LED's for reef tanks how could they be any better than halides and T-5's if according to you the t-5's are putting out so much more light? A lot of people are running LED's on sps dominant tanks. I'm only asking because I am seriously considering LED's on a new tank.

A yes I should have been more specific. My problem is not at all with leds themselves, leds are awesome. It was simply the fixture. I was using the Marineland double bright led fixture which was not even close to the amount of light I needed for the tank. Of course I could have done leds instead of T5 and it would be even better, but it just would have cost like $500 to get the sae light output.

Jeez, Gabe - I hope you never get tired of documenting this! Every time I read something new that you post, I think of how creative you are and have a touch for making things work! :)

How much do you find that you are having to recycle your algae? Are there any tank inhabitants that you regularly lose, or is it hard to tell because there is so much cover (or the crabs take care of the bodies :bigeyes: )?

Any ammonia popping up? That, I suppose, would be an indicator of any major imbalance...

Thanks! I always enjoy your comments :beer:
I have not recycled any algae yet but I think I might have to soon. The fuge especially is getting really full. I have to say the algae might have doubled in mass. Since the light source is above the algae forms a thick mat at the surface. This slowly gets denser and thicker with new growth. I haven't taken any out of the dt yet either because I want a good amount of algae too. I really haven't been finding very many dead bodies either. You are right there is plenty of rock and algae to cover the evidence but I think the big crabs might have taken a few victims :smokin:

Since I got my ammonia alert I have red very low very constant levels of ammonia around .03. At least I think that constant low readings are better than random large spikes. Also the fact that it has been steady means if I can get a bit more biological filtration from algae I should be able to keep that at a steady 0. I have not seen this have any effect on the animals however as most are breeding! I hope the new algae will slowly bring that down.

Fishdisease

05/19/2011, 06:50 AM

Subscribed!

This is awesome. I live in Nova Scotia and this is something I will be doing in the future. Always glad to see a new cold water tank pop up. Keep up the updates and great work.

gabew

05/19/2011, 02:13 PM

Thanks man!

gabew

05/21/2011, 07:32 PM

Well my DSLR finally came!! :lol2: And I am in love with it! It is a bazillion times better than my p&s. I think the best thing about it is being able to manually control the focus. My p&s was terrible at figuring out what I wanted it to focus on! It would always focus on the wrong thing, it was infuriating!! Also having full control over things like shutter speed and aperture has been so much easier. Also my dslr has way better iso and noise reduction than my p&s. My p&s only went to iso 1000 and even at that it was ridiculously noisy. My dslr is pretty good all the way to 32000 but starts to get noticeably noisy at 64000. I spent hours just shooting things learning how to use it and am getting pretty good. I am trying to do everything in full manual mode so I can learn how to control settings. I am still learning and getting better though so these are not my best photos. These are just some of my first. As I get better I will post plenty more better photos> But for now her ya go, just the pics, no comments. Enjoy!

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_4659.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_4674.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_4700.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_4709.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5051.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5089.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5104.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5113.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5119.jpg

gabew

05/21/2011, 07:33 PM

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5142.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5145.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5149.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5154.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5158.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/IMG_5187.jpg

gabew

05/21/2011, 07:43 PM

Oh and forgot to mention. The camera is a Canon T2i refurbished from canon. And the lens is a canon 28-80 f3.5-5.6 not great but so far I have liked it. If I get more into photography which I think I might I will buy some nicer equipment.

iwishtofish

05/21/2011, 09:19 PM

Great photos! You have such amazing diversity in that tank. I bet if you invest in a good macro lens the images will astound you!

cone9

05/21/2011, 10:17 PM

Great thread Gabe!

I just spent quite some time looking over the entire thread having just seem it earlier tonight. Fascinating project - well thought out and working nicely for you.
I'm happy for you success.

I'm subscribing and hoping to see much more from you on this.
Thanks!

gabew

05/22/2011, 07:02 AM

Great photos! You have such amazing diversity in that tank. I bet if you invest in a good macro lens the images will astound you!

Thanks. I really want a macro lens but it is a bit out of my budget. The lens I have has fairly good close focusing so I can get some good photos. I learned that the best way to get close ups is to have the have the lens set at its closest focusing and move the camera to focus. I am thinking of getting some extension tubes though, they are cheaper than a real macro lens and should let me get some pretty close shots.

Great thread Gabe!

I just spent quite some time looking over the entire thread having just seem it earlier tonight. Fascinating project - well thought out and working nicely for you.
I'm happy for you success.

I'm subscribing and hoping to see much more from you on this.
Thanks!

Thanks. I am really happy to see my tank is getting more interest now that I have some interesting inhabitants.

iwishtofish

05/22/2011, 09:14 AM

I am thinking of getting some extension tubes though, they are cheaper than a real macro lens and should let me get some pretty close shots.

Don't get me wrong, I think the current pics are great. Much improved. And one of the best features of DSLRs is the lack of lag time.

Yeah, I've held off on a macro lens because of the expense. You or I might find a really good deal on a used lens, either at B&H or even on Ebay!

gabew

05/22/2011, 02:24 PM

Thanks again. I really a liking the dslr soooooooo much more. It would be awesome if I could find a good deal on a macro lens. What I was also thinking my next lens would be was the Tamron 70-300mm lens (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/550953-REG/Tamron_AF017NII_700_70_300mm_f_4_5_6_Di_LD.html). It is right in my price range at around $165. It will compliment my current lens nicly going from 28-80 then 70-300 And it also has a 1:2 macro feature. I am hoping to get this lens soon if photography becomes more of a hobby for me, which so fer it looks like it will.

iwishtofish

05/22/2011, 09:16 PM

PFCDeitz

05/22/2011, 09:43 PM

awesome as can be!

gabew

05/23/2011, 06:32 AM

Haha, another expensive hobby! :D I have a 70-300mm image-stabilized zoom lens, and I like it a lot. It is not as good as I had hoped for wildlife closeups, though. It just doesn't reach out nearly as far as I had hoped.

The problem with using the macro feature with most any zoom lens (vs true macro) is that you typically have to be considerably farther away from your subject. This makes it less effective for aquarium photography, where you typically want the lens to be nearly touching the glass; otherwise, both glare and autofocus issues can arise.

Well I was looking on ebay and there are some pretty sweet SUPER telephoto lenses out there for not that bad a price like this 650-1300 lens (http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-650-1300mm-Lens-Pentax-Digital-SLR-Camera-/140542051261?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BP%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BIIUM%26otn%3D10%2 6pmod%3D140541996664%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D129835071304412706) plus the teleconverter you can get a massive 650-2600mm of zoom!

Then for tank macro that is why I was thinking my current lens plus extension tubes would let me focus all the way up to the glass.

awesome as can be!

Thanks man!

iwishtofish

05/23/2011, 08:47 AM

Well I was looking on ebay and there are some pretty sweet SUPER telephoto lenses out there for not that bad a price like this 650-1300 lens (http://cgi.ebay.com/Phoenix-650-1300mm-Lens-Pentax-Digital-SLR-Camera-/140542051261?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BP%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BIIUM%26otn%3D10%2 6pmod%3D140541996664%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D129835071304412706) plus the teleconverter you can get a massive 650-2600mm of zoom!

Then for tank macro that is why I was thinking my current lens plus extension tubes would let me focus all the way up to the glass.

That's some whopping telephoto power, there. Will need a tripod with certainty.

I'm not sure about the extension tubes. I just know you need to be able to be as close as 3" from your subject, in some cases. Something about the macro lens design may permit better clarity/focus at macro ranges, too. I honestly don't know as much as I could, but you are a quick study and will work it out just fine! :)

Looking forward to your next excursion!

gabew

05/23/2011, 09:40 AM

Ya I know extension tubes are not ideal but I am still a beginner and don't have the money for the super ice macro lenses yet. But like I said before, if I get more into photography I will get better equipment.

gabew

05/23/2011, 05:44 PM

Well here is a small update.

First my underwater camera case came and it was really fun to use. Like I said before it is a dicapak for my p&s good down to 33'. After a few leak tests I took some shots from inside the tank. Of course not as not as good as my dslr but it gives a cool new perspective to the tank which I like. I will use it mostly for collection trips in the future. So I don't have to worry about getting my camera wet at beaches and to be able to bring it diving!

Here is a shot of the tank from the right end of the tank.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/100_4474.jpg

And another from the left end.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/100_4475.jpg

And here is the "sun"
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/100_4464.jpg

Some more great news I am not almost positive the sticklebacks are breeding. The red one has started tending to a small patch of detritus at the left end of the tank. He is constantly keeping other fish away from it, he even tries to scare the crabs away. He is always grabbing mouthfuls of sand from it and dumping it somewhere else. And he is just spending all his time at this one spot. I am almost certain that is where they laid their eggs. It will be really cool to see them hatch even though I will most likely have to let most of them go.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/IMG_5083.jpg

Perhaps the best news however it that I am seeing good signs that the fucus is growing. The growth is most obvious on the older plants. I am seeing almost all of it slowly start growing again with the new light. To my surprise the ulva is not doing nearly as good. I think it is being eaten faster than it can grow. Almost all of it now is gone. I am not sure why my tank can grow fucus but can't grow ulva, the opposite of most tanks. The ulva in the fuge is thriving on the other hand, time to harvest some soon.

You can see that this kind of fucus attached to the original rocks almost entirely died under the leds. But now under the new lights it is starting to grow again.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/IMG_5737.jpg

On other fucus from the rocks, it simply didn't change at all, it didn't grow or die. But now with the new light it is growing and branching again.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/IMG_5746.jpg

The fucus I got on my first trip to the rocky tidepools has been dying. But now with the new lights it has put out many new green growth points.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/IMG_5757.jpg

Finally even the fucus I got on my last trip has been growing and branching.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g353/chill_reefs_55/Tank%20Pics/IMG_5739.jpg

All this growth is an extremely good sign and means that I can get more fucus in the future. Like I said this is good because I really like fucus and really wanted to be able to add more.