Appropriate Inhabitants for 60 Gallon Cube

[Tradewinds]

I recently purchased a 60 gallon Marineland Cube and a 20 gallon sump. Tank dimensions are 24x24x24. I will use a Coralife Lunar Aqualight T5 for lighting.

What are some good fish/coral combinations given this is adequate lighting?

[Sk8r]

Fishwise, you're good with any goby or blenny, gramma, dartfish; I won't recommend any angel, because they eat corals; fairy wrasses are a good small fish, but may pick at other fish: same with dottybacks, reef safe but bitey. Clowns would be ok, chromis, up to 3, cardinals, anything listed as 'nanofish'.
Choose fishes that have an adult size of 4" and under and you'll be good. I'm not experienced enough with T5s to tell how strong that light is, but definitely softie coral, maybe large polyp stony (lps) and if as bright as metal halides, up through sps, (small polyp stony.)

[Dustin1300]

What's the T5 light consists of? Coralife is a descent starter light pendant with medium quality ballast for driving the T5s. In regards to fish, Sk8r is right on. Don't even try adding any tangs as a cube is not the place for this type of fish as it will easily stress with not much horizontal swimming room available. Have you had experience with coral or is this your first tank?

[jenglish]

You can get away with some SPS near the top with a 4 bulb T5HO fixture, but more than 6 inches or so under the surface most SPS won't thrive. I have kept nems about 16 inches under the water with a similar light. Sand dwelling nems or clams are probably out with the depth of the cube. You have quite a bit of options ahead of you, with more things on the table than off. Think about what you want to keep and then see if you can meet it's needs.

[Dustin1300]

Personally, I'd give the tank about a year before you start experimenting with SPS if you are new to the hobby. Starting with some of the beginner corals can be much more rewarding. You'll find that many get discouraged in the hobby because of losses as its depressing and expensive! I'm ~3 years in and just started my SPS tank this year and have really had to start buckling down and researching much more than I did in the past. I learn more and more each day but just keeping up on my husbandry and am hoping for as beautiful tank as some of the others I envy on RC.

[Tradewinds]

Thanks for the information. I'd like to compile a list of hardy, peaceful fish with a bit of a personality, which would thrive in a small tank, and then pick two or three from that list. I have no idea which way to go on the corals, but when visiting the LFS I like to watch the stuff that sways with the current and has interesting color. I am leery of Zoa's after reading about Palytoxin poisoning on another thread.

What's the T5 light consists of? Coralife is a descent starter light pendant with medium quality ballast for driving the T5s. In regards to fish, Sk8r is right on. Don't even try adding any tangs as a cube is not the place for this type of fish as it will easily stress with not much horizontal swimming room available. Have you had experience with coral or is this your first tank?

Here's the specs on the light:
4-T5 High Output 24W Lamps included—two 10,000k daylight & two actinic
Directional LED moonlights

I had two 55 gallon FOWLR tanks about eight years ago but sold them when I moved. I had these tanks for about five years. Things have slowed down and the bug bit again. I want to try a few corals this time around if possible. No worries on the Tangs, I've been reading the other threads regarding this touchy subject.

RC is a great place, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the hobby.
Mike

[Dustin1300]

Fish is really your choice. Everyone has favorites but I'd just recommend some hardier ones in the beginning. In regards to coral, you said you liked movement so I'd recommend something from the euphyllia family. Those consist of primarily frogspawn, hammer, and torch coral. They are rather hardy, will grow and split heads quickly once you gain some more experience. I still have the original hammer coral from when I started the hobby. It started as 2 heads and have nearly 15 heads right now and have traded off probably 20 heads in the past for LFS credits or other coral.

I acquired a frogspawn with 1 head ~1-2 months ago and already have three heads from it. Once become so large they are really a beautiful coral.

[Frogmanx82]

Here's the specs on the light:
4-T5 High Output 24W Lamps included—two 10,000k daylight & two actinic
Directional LED moonlights

RC is a great place, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the hobby.
Mike

Lights are typically designed for the standard dimensions. Since you only have 24 inches and a total of only 100 watts, I'd say you should add another fixture and 4 more bulbs. 200 watts on a 60 sounds about right, especially considering the depth. For SPS you might even want more than that.

Bangaii cardinals are great if you can get a pair that are eating well. Blennies, gobies and clowns are good starters

[Dustin1300]

I'd agree with Frogman....That comes out to 1.6 watt/gallon which is really low. On my 75 gallon I have 2X250 Watt MHs + 2X54 Watt T5s which comes out to 8.1 watt/gallon.

[Tradewinds]

Lights are typically designed for the standard dimensions. Since you only have 24 inches and a total of only 100 watts, I'd say you should add another fixture and 4 more bulbs. 200 watts on a 60 sounds about right, especially considering the depth. For SPS you might even want more than that.

Bangaii cardinals are great if you can get a pair that are eating well. Blennies, gobies and clowns are good starters

So should I just double up on the current light or see if I can return the light and get something entirely different? If so what would you suggest? I'd like to avoid getting a chiller if at all possible. The tank will be placed in the basement, which should help with heat.

Should Bangaii cardinals always be kept in pairs?

[nanojg]

For fish I would suggest starting with a goby and or firefish. These fish are docile and I like to add calm fish first, they also have great personalities and are fairly active in my experience. Down the road you could add a couple clownfish, I like to add them last because they can be fairly aggressive and territorial. I use eggcrate as a lid to my tank as the fish mentioned, as well as most salt water fish IMO, are jumpers and can easily jump out of aquariums.

Your lighting decision just really depends on how much you want to spend, and what you want to keep (there are some corals you can keep with that light you have: mushrooms for one).

[Dwerbs]

gobies

[Dustin1300]

With the light you currently have you will be lucky to keep ~10% of the coral you see. Personally I'd return it and get a better fixture that provides more lighting. This being said...

- What is your budget?
- What type of coral would you like to keep in the future?

[Frogmanx82]

+1 what Dustin says.

I'd always try to pair the bangaii cardinals. Sexing can be tricky in the store. I picked out two in the tank that were hanging out together and they turned out to be pair that breeds every other month. The behaviors are cool to watch. Lots of shaking and flashing. I had a baby make it 3 months in my QT tank before a heater malfunction killed him. I expect another batch to be swimming out of the males mouth on Christmas Day. For sexing, the male has a bigger lower jaw, and mine is a bit darker than the female. In the store its hard to tell though. Bangaiis can be tricky to get to eat. Mine started only eating frozen foods but now a year later they even eat flakes.

[Tradewinds]

With the light you currently have you will be lucky to keep ~10% of the coral you see. Personally I'd return it and get a better fixture that provides more lighting. This being said...

- What is your budget?
- What type of coral would you like to keep in the future?

I may keep the T5 for my QT, which is 24x13x16 (20 gallon).

Budget - Quoted directly from my CFO (Aka Wife) keep it reasonable. My reasoning seldom matches hers, so I don't want to be upgrading all the time.

Corals - Softies and SPS. Beginner level stuff, but don't want anything that will turn into a PITA.

Something else that may limited my options is that I only have a 15 amp electrical outlet. (Unless I move the tank to a location where I can add additional outlets - but that would be a tough one)

Hopefully this isn't fast becoming A FOWLR operation. :sad1:

[Dustin1300]

You mentioned earlier you wanted to stay away from a chiller. I keep a 75 gallon + 20 gallon sump and am able to keep temperatures below 81.5 but keep my house 74 in summer where some don't like running AC so much. If you keep house cooler in the summer such I do then heat is not an issue with Halides. I also don't foresee an issue with the 15 amp circuit. I'd just recommend GFCI outlets. Sorry for the continued questions and what you keep your house at but am trying to save you hardship and being discouraged which many have happen and leave this wonderful hobby!

[PiXieCath]

I currently have a tank with the same dimension as your and here is the fish I keep:

- A pair of ocellaris clownfish (black-ice semi snowflake)
- A pair of circus goby
- 1 Red elongated dottyback (probably the only peacefull dotty!lol)
- 1 black cap basslet (that's my new addition...really beautiful fish)
- 1 yellow assesor (what a sweet and peacefull fish, really like it and think about adding an other one to make the pair)
- 1 flameback angel (could heat LPS...mine doesn't and I have it for more than a year)
- 1 multifasciatus angel (from my previous 125gal...but I don't recommand it since it's not a beginner fish...mine was acclimated for near than 2 years)

HTH or at least give you some idea...

[cubsFAN]

Watts per gallon is not a good way to judge lighting. A four bulb t5 fixture will allow you to keep a lot of different corals. I don't know much about the light that you have, but when it comes to t5's there are some important factors to consider. Individual reflectors, active cooling, quality bulbs and quality ballast will affect how good a fixture is. I think if you replace the bulbs with quality bulbs you will get better par and will also get a more desirable color. I use a 36in 6x39watt current nova extreme pro on a standard 48in 75 gallon. The reflectors are so-so as is the cooling. I use ati bulbs and can keep just about anything in my tank. The sides of the tank is a good place for me to put low light corals. I would start off with some softies and lps. Once you become more experienced you could try some sps up high directly under the light but that could take some time. Patience.

[89Foxbody]

With that fixture you could easily keep:

Mushrooms(Semi-Aggressive, low water movement): Rhodactis, Ricordea, Actinodiscus

Zoanthids: Zoanthus (typical Zoanthids, they grow on a creep/mat), Protopalythoa, Palythoa (known as Button Polyps). These things will grow in pretty much the worst conditions imaginable. Low to high light (with the best coloration and fastest growth under high light obviously), low to high current.

Star Polyps (Clavularia): Similar to the Zoanthids in the respect that they will grow in pretty much anything. Easy to propagate as well. They can reach nuisance levels in the tank however.

Colt Coral (Cladiella): Tolerant of a wide range of water conditions and light levels.

Cabbage Leather (Sinularia dura): Will adapt to pretty much any water conditions and light levels.

If you want to start with a hard coral you could try some Montiporas.

M. Capricornus will create a bit of a shelf as it grows, it looks pretty neat.

M. Digitata grows as its name implies, sort of a finger shape.

Both are very adaptable.

Keep in mind all these species will do better with their exact preference in lighting and current, however they will all grow and even thrive in your tank provided they get adequate exposure to the light.


WPG is the worst rule of thumb ever. If someone had a tank that was 18"w x 24"d x 30"h they would have the same WPG as you but it would be that much less effective considering the additional water depth of the tank.

Take this into consideration as you're doing your aquascaping. Build your rocks up high in certain areas to make room for your more light-dependent corals, and leave some space down low for the guys who don't need a ton of light or current. The key is to plan ahead. Being impulsive is probably the worst thing ever in this hobby.

[Tradewinds]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate the help.

Dustin1300 - The tank will be in my basement which stays around 73 degrees year round and please feel free to ask as many questions as you like.
I haven't analyzed the power requirements yet, it's hard to find the specs on some equipment, but really don't want to utilize any more than 80% on the 15 AMP circuit or daisy chain power strips.

PiXieCath - I will do some Google searches on the fish you mentioned (Except for the angels) I would love to see some pictures of your tank.

CubsFan - I have a lot to learn about lighting - Thanks for the info! Slow and steady wins the race.

89Foxbody - Your information was very encouraging. Thanks for the list of corals it gives me a great selection from which to choose.

[89Foxbody]

No problem. :)

As far as your circuitry is concerned, divide the total watts of your system by 120 and that will give you the amperage you'll be drawing with everything on (which is what it should be based on).

Add up your bulbs, heaters, all powerheads/circulation pumps, return pumps, skimmer pump, etc etc. Try to leave yourself 5 amps or so for various stuff like the cooling fans in your light fixture (if it has them), or a fan to blow over the top of the tank if it gets warm, etc. Also make sure that's the only thing that's on the circuit, for the sake of these calculations.. Everything's fine until you turn on the ShopVac and you're standing there in the dark.

[Frogmanx82]

I think cubsfan is missing that this is a cube and not the standard shape tank. 4 ho t5 on a standard dimension 60 gallon tank would be plenty, but on a 60 cube, you aren't getting a lot of light on a good portion of the tank. You could just plan on putting the light towards the back and place the corals high on a rock base, but backlighting doesn't really do well for showing your fish. I think you will need more than four 24 inch bulbs.

[cubsFAN]

I think cubsfan is missing that this is a cube and not the standard shape tank. 4 ho t5 on a standard dimension 60 gallon tank would be plenty, but on a 60 cube, you aren't getting a lot of light on a good portion of the tank. You could just plan on putting the light towards the back and place the corals high on a rock base, but backlighting doesn't really do well for showing your fish. I think you will need more than four 24 inch bulbs.

I'm not missing the shape of the tank. You could use 6 bulbs or you could use 8 bulbs. You might even be able to jam ten bulbs in there. You could hang a thousand watt halide over the tank if you wanted. It just isn't necessary. The op will be fine with a variety of corals with 4 bulbs on this shape tank. Personally, I would also like to have 6 bulbs, but the op wants to know if what he has will work. I think that using a limited amount of power has advantages as well. There would be some limitations, but there is no need to go and try sps, clams, or nems with little reefing experience. I had a 29 gallon for years with a single 65 watt pc over it. It was amazing in that it recieved the same complements that my fancy high tech 75 gets now.

[Tradewinds]

I think cubsfan is missing that this is a cube and not the standard shape tank. 4 ho t5 on a standard dimension 60 gallon tank would be plenty, but on a 60 cube, you aren't getting a lot of light on a good portion of the tank. You could just plan on putting the light towards the back and place the corals high on a rock base, but backlighting doesn't really do well for showing your fish. I think you will need more than four 24 inch bulbs.

Does the challenge come into play due to the width of the tank or a combination of the width and depth of the tank?

[Frogmanx82]

I think the bigger problem is the width. You can always play with placing corals at different heights. My main issue would be a typical tank has the rockwork toward the back, so corals needing a higher placement will need to be toward the back as well and so will your light. A light at the back of the tank will mean you are looking at your fish with the wrong side lit up. They will be darker and less colorful. Its not a question of watts either, I think there will be too many dark spots and your tank won't look as good with just four bulbs over a 24 inch width.

Lights are one of the most critical elements in determining corals you can keep. You can start out with all kinds of limitations and poorly illuminate your tank if you want. I'm telling you what I would do.

[Tradewinds]

I think the bigger problem is the width. You can always play with placing corals at different heights. My main issue would be a typical tank has the rockwork toward the back, so corals needing a higher placement will need to be toward the back as well and so will your light. A light at the back of the tank will mean you are looking at your fish with the wrong side lit up. They will be darker and less colorful.

A solution may be to place most of my rockwork in the center of the tank, in some decorative manner of course.

[cubsFAN]

A solution may be to place most of my rockwork in the center of the tank, in some decorative manner of course.

Now youre thinking. building a rock wall on the back of your glass is as outdated as watts per gallon. It just creates dead spaces for detritus to accumulate.

[Frogmanx82]

I said toward the back, not necessarily a rock wall. People do this because they like to see their fish. Why cubsfan is determined to keep you undersized on your lighting is beyond me. If you want the definitive recommendation, ask the grim reefer on his thread, but I'll tell you he would say 4 bulbs on a 12 inch width, 6 on 18, and 8 on 24 inches. With 4 bulbs your just short on your lighting. That's the expert recommendation.

You could start another thread and ask what are appropriate inhabitants for a dimly lit 60 cube if that's the way you want to go. It can work and you could get a decent looking tank, but you're working from a disadvantage starting out, just so you know.

[cubsFAN]

There are a lot of reefers that are successful using 4 bulbs over 18 inch tanks. I've personally seen it on a couple 75 gallons that were very nice and grew sps towards the bottom. The extra 6 inches will leave some dark areas, but you could have the light more towards the front so as not to "waste" light where there will be fewer corals in the back. It might even prevent as much algae from growing on your back glass. You also spend less on electricity and bulb replacement. I'm not determined to have him undersize his lighting, I just think that there is a lot of ways to light a tank and be successful. I can give a long list of inhabitants for this tank that are easy to take care of with the light that he has as could a lot of other non-experts. Once again, I agree that he would be limited as to what he could keep, but the light is adequate to keep a reef tank. I'm not really sure if his money could be better spent considering his budget, but I have not done that research. I don't know why you would question my motives. You are the one giving outdated advice.

[Tradewinds]

I by no means want to cause discord among friends. I think the problem stems from my inability to specify what will inhabit the tank. Both CubsFAN and FrogmanX82 are correct in their own right. One veiwpoint gives me more options on what can be placed in the tank, while the other allows me to slowly get re-acclimated to the hobby but will require upgrading my system at some point in the the future.

It's a bit of a catch-22. I really don't know which comes first, researching the fish/corals I want and then go buy the proper equipment to support them or buy a system based on funds, floor space, electrical limitations, tank size and current husbandry skills, then select the inhabitants of the tank based on the limitations of the aquarium configuration. I do have a salt water swimming pool... but the wife would kill me if I put fish in it. (Attempt at humor) The water parameters are also very different.

Barring MH, what would be the best commercially made light for a 60 gallon cube tank (24x24x24) if I was going to buy only one light fixture?

[cubsFAN]

I'd go with a 6-8 bulb fixture. ATI makes the best t5 fixtures. They can be had with quality bulbs at reefgeek.com. If you are handy, you could do a retro-kit and add bulbs as you see necessary as well.

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/ATI/SunPower_Fixtures/

[Frogmanx82]

Well that's something we agree on. With an ATI fixture, 6 bulbs should put you in pretty good shape.

My experience is that if you buy the best, its cheaper in the long run because you don't spend again to upgrade and it gives you more satisfaction.

[Dustin1300]

CubsFan and Frogman are pointing you in the right direction. If I had a T5 only fixture I'd have an ATI fixture and was what I was going to recommend. I personally like MHs with T5 supplementation as you can keep SPS/LPS without worry. With you having the tank in the basement I'd recommend a 250 Watt MH with T5s. Are you planning on having a canopy or not?

[GiantBen]

Dimensions on that tank sound sweet

[GiantBen]

Also, I see people talking about watts per gallon. I thought that was a dated way of qualifying light for a tank. Have I heard wrong about this?

[89Foxbody]

Also, I see people talking about watts per gallon. I thought that was a dated way of qualifying light for a tank. Have I heard wrong about this?


No you haven't...It's a silly rule of thumb that doesn't really tell you much at all. A taller tank with the same volume will have the same WPG yet those watts will be much less efficient having to penetrate the extra water in the tank.

[Frogmanx82]

Its not like it doesn't tell you anything. Its a reasonable rule that was based on standard dimension tanks and T12 lighting. With different tank shapes its not so much a one size fits all rule. Better reflectors also make a big difference in the light output so wattage isn't a true indicator of PAR received by corals.

Regardless, if you've got 1 watt per gallon, its highly likely you don't have enough light for many corals. Watts are still the easiest measurement we have for bulb output which makes it a little harder to move away from this outdated rule. Certainly LED lighting works on a whole different scale.

[Tradewinds]

I'm off to check out those ATI light fixtures. Thanks for the information and link to the product.

CubsFan and Frogman are pointing you in the right direction. If I had a T5 only fixture I'd have an ATI fixture and was what I was going to recommend. I personally like MHs with T5 supplementation as you can keep SPS/LPS without worry. With you having the tank in the basement I'd recommend a 250 Watt MH with T5s. Are you planning on having a canopy or not?

I personally don't like the looks of canopies on top of tanks, I had a big boxy one eight years ago, but even then I feel it diminished the look of the tank. Once again this is just my personal preference.