DIY LED Questions - Need Experts

[FranktheTankTx]

Friends & Fellow Reefers -

I have been reading up on the DIY LED throughout RC DIY forum. While the 'DIY LEDs - The Write Up' thread is VERY informative, honestly it's HUGE & impractical for the average person to read it in it's entirety. I have a decent amount of understanding of DIY LEDs & even own one that was pre built for me.

With that said, I have some random questions & appreciate anyone's help. I'm hoping DWZM chimes in because thru my reading, right or wrong, I have decided he is very knowledgable on this topic & I would truly respect his opinion concerning my questions. However, everyone feel free to chime in.

If you would please, answer them in numerical format to help me with organization.

THINGS TO KNOW
I'm considering a 96 LED build to go over a 48"x30" (lxw) tank housing SPS. I am looking at Rapid LED as my source for LED kits. I'm giving this one (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-32/48-Premium-LED-DIY/Detail) x2 serious consideration because I can get everything but the heatsink.

1) My calculations suggest that to build a 96 LED build w/ dimmable meanwells, I would need 8 meanwells. That sounds like a lot! I've read about running them parallel & have even read (http://www.reefledlights.com/how-to-diy-led/wiring-diagrams/) the LEDs run more efficiently this manner. By running (2) sets of 12 LEDs parallel, I could cut down my need for meanwells. However, I DO NOT want to run 1:1 ratio of Blue:White. I'm not certain that one can run LEDs parallel when running an odd mix of colors. While I'm not completely opposed to 8 meanwells, seems like 6 or 4 would make for a cleaner look. Maybe I could run 24 Blue's parallel as a dawn/dusk effect? How does mixing colors affect how you wire the LEDs & meanwell? Read on to my next question - which may give you more info on my design.

2) I'm interested in putting some Cyan Green LEDs in my LED build. I don't see these on Rapid LED or Reefledlights. Where could someone get these? I see Cree makes a Green XR-E LED (http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp7090_xre.asp). Is that cyan green? Looks like it.
I think my LED color ratio would look something like this or close:
(60) Blue
(30) White
(6) Cyan Green

3) Can the dimmable meanwells be configured to run with RK Elite/MLC module? If so, how? I understand they are dimmable, but what is dimming them? How do you configure it to work with the RK Elite/MLC module?

4) I see that RapidLED offers pre drilled & tapped heatsinks. Very cool!! Does anyone offer to cut the fins to fit the fan inside? I do not have the tools to do this myself, & I prefer a very clean look with the fan inside the fins. Does Heatsinkusa offer this option? Anyone?

Thank you all for reading & helping me along. I really appreciate your help &
as always, will pass on the knowledge to others that I have learned.

[firechild]

I'm only going to add one thing to this thread and that is a note on efficiency - which you are no doubt aware DWZM is a big advocate of. XR-E emitters are fairly efficient but there has been a general trend towards XP-E (blue/royal blue) and XP-G (white) emitters due to substantially higher efficiency. With XM-L offering up to 20% gain in efficiency over XP-G, it leaves the XR-E emitters way behind. Considering the general plan is to use these units for several years, I would suggest going for the highest efficiency you can at the time you are building your unit. I would suggest a mix of XP-E and XM-L for maximum efficiency of the unit overall.

[FranktheTankTx]

I'm only going to add one thing to this thread and that is a note on efficiency - which you are no doubt aware DWZM is a big advocate of. XR-E emitters are fairly efficient but there has been a general trend towards XP-E (blue/royal blue) and XP-G (white) emitters due to substantially higher efficiency. With XM-L offering up to 20% gain in efficiency over XP-G, it leaves the XR-E emitters way behind. Considering the general plan is to use these units for several years, I would suggest going for the highest efficiency you can at the time you are building your unit. I would suggest a mix of XP-E and XM-L for maximum efficiency of the unit overall.
Thank you for comment, firechild. I'm catching up on the different types of LEDs by Cree. I have noted that the XP-G LED currently does not have a optical lens designed for it. However, I assume it's only a matter of time?

So, perhaps this one (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-57/48-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail) would be a better offering by Rapid LED? While I do see the XP-E Royal Blue & Blue LED offered by Rapid LED, I do not see it offered in a 'kit'.

[firechild]

Optics are available for XP-E emitters and they will also fit XP-G emitters though the angle will vary slightly due to the slight difference in angle on the primary optics between the 2 emitter types. I wouldn't be surprised if no kits were available with XP emitters but kits may not necessarily be the best way to go. Choose the emitters you want and source the parts from wherever has the best prices. You might find that buying parts separately will give you a better overall price.

[katchupoy]

I have noted that the XP-G LED currently does not have a optical lens designed for it. However, I assume it's only a matter of time?

I believe they have optics for XP-G, that is what I have ordered on Rapidled. They just dont have it on the kit but you have to order the optics for XP-G as additional. I have the 45 degree ones.
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-Lenses-fdsh-Optics/Categories

Note: I bought the 24 ultra dimmable, and the 45 degree optics for xp-g is definitely wider than my 60 degree optics for my XR-E. I have these on my 75 gallon and the Blues barely cover my 18 inch (front to back) tank, while the XP-G covers everything really good. This is 12" high from water line.

Here is the pic of those optics...
http://66.213.194.54/__caddnima/myreef/IMAGES/2010-12-13%20-%20DIY%20LED/2010-12-24-G.jpg

http://66.213.194.54/__caddnima/myreef/IMAGES/2010-12-13%20-%20DIY%20LED/2010-12-24-J.jpg


Also, the XP-G R5 (from rapidled) I believe is too yellow for me... I was hoping like a 10k white... but these guys are like 6.5K iwasaki's or ushios... so if you are thinking of ordering additional warm whites... please consider.

Also, The 1:1 between XP-G white and XR-E blue, is not on the blue side, like others have mentioned. Maybe because their 1:1 is between XR-E whites and XR-E blues. And not XP-G whites. Just my observation on my build. So if you want the bluer look and will be ordering XP-G then please reconsider your order. Either way, you are ordering the dimmables correct? so you can actually tone down the white as per your preference

[FranktheTankTx]

Thank you, Cesar for your comments. As firechild has directed me to the more efficient XP-G & XP-E LEDs, I've began to reconstruct my thinking concerning the build.

I could do an AI 'knock off' - which would be one hell of a knock off. I would purchase the 4.25" x 23" pre drilled & tapped heatsink or something similar in size, & run 4 of them just like AI modules across my 48" long tank.

I've already sketched a LED sketch. Please note, different from my original post, I have eliminated the 'Green' LED & will utilize the Royal Blue/Blue/Cool White combo.

I'd appreciate some expert opinions on my OP (disregarding the Green LED usage).

[der_wille_zur_macht]

There are lots of optics made specifically for the XP-G, and in addition most/all optics made for other XP family LEDs (XP-E for instance) will work absolutely fine. Keep in mind that the thing that makes an optic "specific" to a particular LED is essentially the size/position of the bottom surface of the optic with respect to the LED. If two LEDs have similar built-in lens properties (in terms of size and position) then optics will generally be interchangeable. Even if two particular LEDs have different physical properties, optics will usually be interchangeable if you don't mind the final properties being a bit different - i.e. you might get a slightly smaller or larger spread of light.

I agree with above comments related to XR-E vs. XP-E and XP-G.

As far as LED colors and ratios, it very much depends on personal preference. You really just need to order a few and play to see what you like. PERSONALLY, I don't like plain blue LEDs - I find that while they add a fair amount of blue light, it's a very washed out blue look without much in the way of "pop." Meanwhile, royal blue gives LOTS of good pop. And while I agree with the above poster about cool white LEDs really being warmer than they sound, I do think that they're a bit lacking in the warm spectrum to really get great results in terms of color from your corals. Some corals adopt really weird colors under an array that's JUST cool whites and royal blues. I've found that adding some neutral whites eliminates this color shift - if things start getting too warm, just increase the number of royal blues in the build. But, again, this is all very much personal preference, and none of us can tell you what will look the best to you!

[FranktheTankTx]

Thank you, DWZM for your comments. I hope you will see my response.

I agree with you regarding a place for Warm & Cool White in a reef setting. Since I only see the 'Warm White' in XR-E, I'm assuming this is acceptable? Of course, I'm only looking at Rapid LED's selection.

Now, my question that needs to be answered is:

1) Can any of the following LEDs be wired in any 12 LED configuration w/ Meanwell 60-48D?

XP-E Royal Blue
XP-E Blue
XP-G Cool White
XR-E Warm White

As you look at my attachment, I'm considering running (12) Royal Blues per heatsink on one string for dawn/dusk dimming. That would leave a combination of (4) Blues, (6) Cool Whites, (2) Warm Whites to run on the other string.

Is this possible/efficient? Please say yes?!

2) Since I do not have the tools to cut out the fan section in a heatsink, do companies like heatsinkusa offer this option?

See attachment for design build... I listed Rapid LED heatsink just for this purpose. I'm flexible on the heatsink.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Since I only see the 'Warm White' in XR-E, I'm assuming this is acceptable? Of course, I'm only looking at Rapid LED's selection.

Sure it would be acceptable, but not the "best." Cree makes a neutral and warm white XP-G as well, that is what I would look for myself.

1) Can any of the following LEDs be wired in any 12 LED configuration w/ Meanwell 60-48D?

Yes, you can mix and match any of those LEDs you'd like if you're working in a single series string of 12 LEDs. The only "disadvantage" is that if you have only mixed strings, you can't dim the individual colors separately. The only design consideration is that you need to keep the current in the string below the max current for all of the LEDs in the string. But most people run LEDs at a low enough current that this won't be a problem.

2) Since I do not have the tools to cut out the fan section in a heatsink, do companies like heatsinkusa offer this option?

Unless you have some weird design requirement, i.e. you're trying to fit the whole unit in a reeeeeeallly small space or something, you DON'T WANT fins cut out for the fans! It actually reduces effectiveness of the heatsinks. If you are going to use the standard-issue gigantic heatsinks, just poke holes in them and stick the fans right on the fins blowing down, or put all fans at one edge of the sink blowing along the fins.

[FranktheTankTx]

DWZM -

I guess I do not understand electricity well enough. How would I know how much 'current' is going thru the LED's? Does the meanwell 60-48D offer more current than 12 LEDs can handle? How do I ensure this does not happen?

I will look for XP-G Warm/Neutral Whites. Thank you for the heads up.

Most LED fixtures appear to have the fans 'sunk' into the fins... AI, Maxspect, etc. At least to my eye it appears that way. I guess I figured that was optimal. In my head, I figured if for instance I had a heatsink with 1" fins, I would cut a square section down to 1/2" fins & drop the fan in place. Bad idea?

Obviously, I could do 2 large heatsinks 20"x20" each & match the colors up on strings for better control of colors. Good idea!!

Response?

[katchupoy]

How would I know how much 'current' is going thru the LED's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1thXysaHtY&feature=related


Does the meanwell 60-48D offer more current than 12 LEDs can handle?

Yes. It does not matter if its 8 or 12, only voltage changes since they are in series. The current is fix (whatever setting you have on your mean well driver). So like the video above, you can accidentally set it to more than 1 amp, and if you have XR-E then their max amp is 1 amp then you can accidentally ruin your LED.

[FranktheTankTx]

Thank you all for your help. I think I understand the process a little better now, & there certainly is plenty of info out there to help along the way. I won't be needing this build for a year or so, but I wanted to gradually have a project to work on along the way.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Most LED fixtures appear to have the fans 'sunk' into the fins... AI, Maxspect, etc. At least to my eye it appears that way. I guess I figured that was optimal. In my head, I figured if for instance I had a heatsink with 1" fins, I would cut a square section down to 1/2" fins & drop the fan in place. Bad idea?


Dropping the fan into the sink is slightly less efficient, but keep in mind that MOST arrays people are building in this forum (and arguably some commercial arrays) are grossly over-cooled in terms of heatsink size/capacity. So, you'd probably be fine to do that if you wanted to, i.e. to fit the fixture in a smaller space, but you certainly don't HAVE to do a cutout like that, and unless you have some compelling reason to do so, you'd be better off not doing it.

[FranktheTankTx]

Is the fan blowing downward onto the heatsink or upward from the heatsink? My guess is upward...

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I typically point them down when using these monolithic heatsinks, but arguably it depends at least a little bit on the rest of the design (i.e. if you're putting the heatsink in a hood or enclosure).

Again though, unless you're using a MUCH MUCH higher power density, or putting the thing in a really tight box, it probably doesn't matter. As long as the air isn't dead stagnant and trapped, these gigantic sinks are more than adequate and you don't really need to be worried about dead-accurate best fan placement.

[FranktheTankTx]

Hey Guys! I just picked up an 8.5 gallon [pico tank, & I want to build a small LED light over it. Probably looking at about 8 or 9 LEDs over it.

So basically, I want to use a Meanwell 60-48D to drive the LEDs so that I can dim the light manually to the appropriate light level that is suitable for the tank.

So, can the Meanwell drive 8 or 9 Cree XP-G & XP-E safely? I know many have recommended 12 LEDs, but I just won't need 12 LEDs over this size tank.

Is this just a matter of adjusting the settings on the meanwell? If you have other suggestions to run this correctlly, let me know.

[Dirrk]

Hey Guys! I just picked up an 8.5 gallon [pico tank, & I want to build a small LED light over it. Probably looking at about 8 or 9 LEDs over it.

So basically, I want to use a Meanwell 60-48D to drive the LEDs so that I can dim the light manually to the appropriate light level that is suitable for the tank.

So, can the Meanwell drive 8 or 9 Cree XP-G & XP-E safely? I know many have recommended 12 LEDs, but I just won't need 12 LEDs over this size tank.

Is this just a matter of adjusting the settings on the meanwell? If you have other suggestions to run this correctlly, let me know.


Frank: The Meanwell ELN-60-27 is perfect for 5-8 Crees. The caveat is you would have no spare capacity to add LEDs. The ELN-60-48 is for 8-14 LEDs, depending on fv total. 8 XPG/XPE ought to meet the minimum voltage requirement [24v] of the ELN-6048. So you can go either way.