NEWBIE QUESTION on TANK [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

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Jerrick

01/05/2011, 12:51 PM

Hello,

I have kept FW tanks for the last 15 years and also Koi Ponds and have been researching REEF Tanks for the last 5 months.....Here is my dilemma THERE is TO MUCH INFORMATION!!! and it all seems to contradict itself! One will say one thing and another a completely different thing...Same with FW and Koi....but I was looking into buying a brand new system and started adding up everything I wanted and lets just say the better half of me ( wife ) was not to pleased....So I found this tank for sale 15 miles away from me and wanted some opinions.....These are the only Photographs I have but am going out to their house 2morrow to get a lot more!!!

Could anyone tell me what questions they would ask if they were the ones in my shoes going to look at an established tank to purchase?

The info I have on it is this. he is asking $450
65 gallon reef aquarium. 80# liverock and 20# base rock . 175MH lights (coming up on replacement in 4 months). Refugia, corals (soft and stony mixture) and deep oolitic sandbed. Tank is 65 gallon AGA aquarium with corner overflow. Fish: Purple tang, coral beauty anglefish, 2 clownfish. Some powerheads need replacing. Stand is home built.http://mail.google.com/a/jerricksfinejewelry.com/?ui=2&ik=2c648864e3&view=att&th=12d5449201d9bb57&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zwThis photo was taken a few years ago.

this next pic is more recent he said that the tank has been neglected a bit because of wedding and moving the last few months! you can see the algae growth down around the sand and in the corners of the tank. [IMG]http://www.ksl.com/emedia/c/259/25945/2594551.jpg?filter=ksl/gallery
any help on what question I should ask tomorrow would be greatly appreciated.

I will post a lot of pictures tomorrow once i see the tank!

Thanks

Jerrick

01/05/2011, 12:54 PM

maybe the second picture will not upload I will try it again...http://www.ksl.com/emedia/c/259/25945/2594551.jpg?filter=classified/adPic1a

chimmike

01/05/2011, 01:14 PM

can't see the pic so well. $450 seems high, but that's just me. I'd like to see the sump, doesn't look like it has a skimmer. Is it just one 175w halide?

Jerrick

01/05/2011, 01:28 PM

http://www.ksl.com/emedia/c/259/25945/2594551.jpg?filter=ksl/gallery1

Sugar Magnolia

01/05/2011, 01:33 PM

Since this would be your first saltwater tank, I'd suggest skipping it. The main reason why is that because it's been neglected you will be taking on some huge issues for a new tank owner to tackle. Nuisance algae, high phosphates and nitrates, cyano...all of these things are a real pain to get straightened out. IMHO, $450 is way to much to pay for the headaches you will deal with trying to get that tank back into decent shape.

Jerrick

01/05/2011, 01:48 PM

Like I said rather than asking a ton of questions over the phone I am going to go look at the system tomorrow and take photos of everything to get your opinions.....but just wanted to know any specific question you think I should ask him regarding the setup!

Thanks

Jerrick

01/05/2011, 01:49 PM

sorry for all of the post just getting close to getting a tank and am so excited/nervous I can't stand it!

Jerrick

01/07/2011, 12:46 PM

OKAY HERE IS THE SYSTEM

65 Drilled with corner overflow, to 20 gal sump ( Protien skimmer Not working...Broken impeller???) 300 GPH submersible pump, back to tank....also a 20 gal fuge with gravity flow back to tank...it has 2 MH 175 NEW bulbs and 2 NEW 30 W Actinic (blue) lights. 2 power heads in tank for flow...1 purple tang, 2 clown, 1 dwarf angle....

Asking $450 ..... I live only 15 min away so fast transport can be done....feel like I could not set up a tank for this what are your opinions...
F:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF5987.JPGF:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF5989.JPGF:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF5990.JPG
F:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF5990.JPGF:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF6002.JPG
F:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF5993.JPGF:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF6001.JPGF:\DCIM\100_FUJI\DSCF6007.JPG

HOW DO I GET THESE PICTURES TO UPLOAD FROM MY CAMERA! I TRIED TO OPEN WITH THE INTERNET AND COPY AND PASTE URL BUT DID NOT WORK????

DoubleM 10

01/07/2011, 01:15 PM

well we cant see the pics. anyways ur right you will not be ale to set up a tank for that price. if budgett is your thing than i would suggest waiting till you have a good amount of money.

the reason i say that is when you put it all together you know what goes n it. also you will learn alot more to combat issues you may have. Yes you did a lot of reading. what i have found in this hobby is every situation is different. you cant treat all things the same. yes their are a few things that hold true all the time. as you will find that there is a lot of variables.

if you purchase the tank from the person you will inherit all the problems he/she has in the tank that you may not know how to combat. you dont know whats in their. the problems come FREE. another thing you will learn in this hobby is patience. nothing in this hobby that is good happens fast. (i.e. getting a running tank)

my perosnal experience was best done on my own. i know it will hurt the pocket book a little more but do not buy the tank and start your own. i have seen many places selling many used empty tanks for great prices. you go inspect it to make sure its good then take it home.

you will learn a lot more starting from scratch.HTH

matt

webos

01/07/2011, 01:21 PM

Jerrick

01/07/2011, 01:26 PM

Hope these pics work....

Conrad25

01/07/2011, 01:56 PM

Tank & Sump are worth a hundred.

Lights worth probably 100.00 bucks either way most likely with newer bulbs

Rock, if you get the live rock at a good price of 2.50, 250.00

Purple Tang is worth some money, 100.00 or more, but it shouldn't be in that tank as it needs a 6 foot tank to thrive and thats a 3 foot tank which is no where ideal as it will get way to big for it.

Corals like what I can all see is in the tank is probably worth 50.00 as I can't see anything much of value in the tank. Mushrooms people give away. Candycanes I can see are 2.00 a head normally and it looks like he has a ten pack in the tank. So not even sure if its 50.00 worth as I can't see it all.

Plus all the other misc. which can add up.

It looks to be worth it to me if you are willing to easily put another 100.00 down on test kits (salifert is the easiest to use and accurate) and also another 100.00 for a quality RO/DI system which the Mighty Might system would do you fine from www.airwaterice.com and it can hook up to a faucet on a sink even which is nice for convience of not adapting something.

I also would put two Koralia's right off the bat in the tank as these are cheap, but quality. You could go with two of them to start and I would either get two Koralia 2's or One Koralia 3 and One Koralia 2. Stick them in opposite sides of the tank and than rid yourself of any junk ones he was using.

Koralia 3
http://www.amazon.com/KORALIA-UL-850-gph-6-5W/dp/B000O3AQZC

Koralia 2
http://www.amazon.com/KORALIA-UL-600-gph-9W/dp/B000O37DAI

I know the tank looks like a deal. Well to me, it could be. But I know what i would be doing with it all easily to get it cleared up with the issues. With that said, it may be a lot better to go with used equipment and set it up yourself etc. Also if you get the tank and move it, don't move the sand out of the tank or disturb the sand much or you will have what they call a mini cycle which can kill fish and other stuff, or you can go with new sand which is always preferred IMO as sand gets a lot of debris and junk in it which can cause major issues for these instances. Also save as much water as you can with the tank, atleast 50% of it. The tank has a lot to turn around on, but it can be done. It would be months before you see all the issues cleared up though most likely.

Conrad

More pictures would help with us being able to tell you more information about what it would be worth.

Conrad25

01/07/2011, 01:59 PM

Alright, so you posted pictures before I posted. Now looking at the tank, DEF. dump the sand as its done for. The tank can't be bad off with all the nice Green Slimer, Monti cap and other stuff. In my opinion it doesn't seem bad off if all that stuff is still thriving in the tank.

Jerrick

01/07/2011, 02:39 PM

WOW thanks CONRAD that was most helpful! AS far as the Sand goes....Would you suggest I buy all new LIVE sand $$$$ or could I get reg and then just seed it with the sand that is in the fuge ( not as bad ) and some of the old??? here are a few more pics as well!!!

Conrad25

01/07/2011, 03:08 PM

Live Sand is a big scam. You also have no idea how long its been in the bag and what not. Most of it if not all will be dead in the sand, so no need to bother with live sand. Dry Aragonite is the best choice for a reef tank. Also make sure it is not sugar/beach size sand as it will blow around in the tank very easily and is junk which you will be miserable with. Many of us including myself have made this mistake and changed it out pretty quickly and won't ever do it again. It looks pretty till the tank starts running. They have many different styles out and pricing varies, its all about your taste on this matter. I wouldn't bother seeding it with the other sand as your live rock will seed the sand just fine. If he has snails and crabs etc. Make sure none of them are left behind in the old sand when you scoop it out.

Also goes the same for the sump on sand. lower the water in the sump to where it just barely covers it as it won't be disturbed much than, it doesn't look to be in bad shape. But you might want to consider replacing it as well. Ask him how long the tank has been running also and if its been setup for a long time, probably good to replace it as sand builds up on nitrates etc over a long period of time.

It appears to me maybe he let his RODI filters go, or he was using tap water which is why he has these issues.

That ballast you took a picture of, hamilton is a known brand and usually is decent stuff depending on age etc. It would be helpful to see the reflectors to tell you if its good lighting as it may be worth a little more than a 100 if so

Conrad

Sk8r

01/07/2011, 03:43 PM

Ultimately you'll want to move all rock with caulerpa on it down to the sump and replace it in the DT with new live rock. It's not a bad deal. You'll have leeway to purchase newer equipment slowly.
BUT you will need to read the stickies on SETUP from the top of this forum and ask at every move. Mostly, that sandbed is going to be a problem.
I've been at this a few years, and if I were going to do a one-day move on that tank, I'd get 10 white poly buckets from Lowe's paint dept, I'd have a lot of ro/di ready, I'd use 75% of the water from this tank to wash the sand very, very thoroughly in old water, tossing all sediment. Then rapidly (there are lids that fit these buckets, for ease of transport in car) get the whole rig set up, leveled, filled, with rock then sand, then new saltwater and 25% old water. Put the corals in, put the fish in, turn the heater and lights and skimmer on (you'll need a new skimmer pump) and cross your fingers. Have a bottle of Amquel (ammonia stopper) standing by and test this operation every 4 hours through the night and next day if it were mine. Hopefully it would settle without any incident of ammonia, and you can solve all other problems from there.

The essential thing in marine tanks is water: very GOOD water, so if you keep that quality up, and stop any ammonia at all, any nitrate at all, you'll be all right. I keep good marine parameters in my sig---but in setup all you have to concern you is your nitrate/ammonia readings. 0 is good---and your salinity match (to .001: a refractometer is a good idea). With a good salt mix, 1/2 cup mix per gallon, all other parameters will start in good shape and decline only slowly, so you will have time to do a fast study on maintenance. That has been a very pretty tank. Without the weed and with some of the larger fish traded to the lfs for more appropriate species, it will be a great tank. Corals---no problem: corals are living filters, they're tougher than you think, and they don't overcrowd each other. Fish are what has to be rationed.

Conrad25

01/07/2011, 04:14 PM

While I agree you could clean the sand, you would have to extremly thoroughly cleaned it out. You could get away with it that way, but its not worth that hassle in my opinion or worth the chance. This will take a while to do so and new sand can be prepped and ready to go which = quicker setup and way less stress on the tank. Also if you don't get the sand cleaned properly, you will have major issues which is why I said its worth the 100.00 to just start with new stuff...

This is all my own opinion and from what I have had success with along with others. So its up to you

Conrad

Sk8r

01/07/2011, 07:10 PM

I won't disagree, Conrad. Depends on how 'washed' you can get it. Detritus in that sand can be a major source of problems in the next 24 hours. Either you get it where the water runs off nearly clear, or it's not clean enough.

Jerrick

01/08/2011, 11:54 AM

When and If I wash the sand can I just get in the bathtub and wash it with fresh ( city ) water??????

Seems like it would take a long time and be very messy....don't know if sand going down my drain is very smart either???

Frogmanx82

01/08/2011, 12:56 PM

I agree with Conrad. Moving day will be very stressful and you will be worn out by the end of it. Dealing with the sand would be a pain. I'd save a bit of it, maybe a quart to help seed the new sand. Scoop from the top layer say no deeper than an inch or so and you'll have some pods for your fresh sand. I wouldn't do a DSB. 2 inches of sand is plenty.

Maivortex

01/08/2011, 01:08 PM

look for scratches

Sk8r

01/08/2011, 02:20 PM

Wash the sand only in a pristine container, no soap residue, use only ro/di or salt water, ime. the reason I suggested it was so you might possibly squeak by with no cycle. If you go new sand, you are likely to have a small cycle, maybe a few days: test obsessively and stand by with an ammonia-stopper like Polyfilter or Prime or Amquel to nab it fast if it shows.

Jerrick

01/10/2011, 12:50 PM

OKAY, I bougth the TANK! Have not moved it yet!

I am going to get a new Koralia 2 Power Head, He had new Lights, with 4 extra 30w blue! So The new light alone were worth 200+

Should I get a Maxi Jet 1200 to feed the fuge???? This is what he suggested???

I think I will re-use the sand Thinking I would scoop off the top layer and save it to seed the tank with....then just take the rest and pressure wash it......Hoping to move it next week.....

Conrad25

01/10/2011, 03:04 PM

Are you talking the sump you have below the tank? A maxi jet probably would be able to return water back up into the tank, but it will be extremely slow in doing so and a little to slow most likely to make it worthwhile. I would not bother taking the top layer off the sand really. Take one scoop to reseed the sand and than wash the rest extremely well or you will have issues. Also what are the new bulbs? I though it was two 175w halides above the tank?

Jerrick

01/11/2011, 01:24 PM

Yes it has 2 175 MH but also 2 Blue 30W Atinic Bulbs.....The MaxiJet 1200 would be for the Fuge which is not below the tank...it is going to be higher than the tank and gravity flow back to tank.....I will see If I can get some images of the spot it is all going.....

DanEnglish

01/12/2011, 01:38 AM

Looks like you got a good deal. Make sure to use RO/DI first and see if that helps the situation. Also see if you can offset some cost by selling the tang!