Calcium Chloride Alternative

[travis32]

I found an ice melt that claims pure calcium chloride pellets.

I opened the containe (50 lb bucket of Scotts Wood Industries Calcium Chloride Ice Melt Pellets. Sold at Sams Club).

I mixed up a small batch - 2 cups of ice melt pellets to around Half gallon of RODI water (After it disolved of course).

I have tested it for Ammonia levels with an API ammonia test kit. The ammonia did not register using the freshwater instructions.

I tested My RODI water storage for phosphates and ammonia and both registered undetectable levels with API test kit.

What's interesting about these pellets.. I had a half 1 pound bucket left of BRS pure calcium chloride pellets. I looked at them, compared them to the ice melt.... Guess what?? 100% identical in shape, design, size of pellets, everything, even color. Obviously under a microscope there may be differences, but, with the human eye, if they were mixed together, you'd have no idea there was any difference in them.

I took 2.5 cups of the BRS pellets and 2 cups of the ice melt pellet mix that I had and mixed a full gallon container of liquid calcium chloride.

I am going to let it rest over night as the container got very very hot. I will let it fully disolve and cool over night then dose in the morning in small amounts initially to monitor for any negative impacts.

Calcium tested at 3.7 with salifert test kit in my tank. Alk tested at 3.31 Meq/l.

Let me know if there's any known issues I should look for with SWI Ice melt pellets.

[bertoni]

That product might contain trace contaminants, like copper. Most people seem to be having good results with alternative calcium chloride products, but it's possible that the one you have could cause problems. There's no cost-effective way to test for trace contaminants.

[travis32]

Thanks Jon! I have dosed 1/4th gallon I will test calcium tonight to see where it was at. Before I dosed it was down to 370 again. Alk remained high. I forgot to dose alk again, but, I wanted to keep it steady around 3.0meq/l.

[bertoni]

You're welcome! Good luck!

[mscarpena]

I really do not think it is financially worth it to use the alternative products. You really do save much in the long run. Also the ice melt companies do not use a strict of standards as other companies that make stuff for aquariums. Also 50# will last you a lifetime, but you will probably end up wasting a bunch of it because you will open and close it 100 times. This stuff attracts water like no one business. I just dont think it is a good idea to mess with it.

[travis32]

Well, I'm looking at this way. $18.00 for 50lbs. (which I can also use for the driveway.....)

Where as 50lbs from an online vendor would be $17.00 for 7 lbs. 7 * $17 = $120 + Shipping vs. $18.50 including tax.

I realize the purity in question, but even Rand Holmes, indicates several brands of alternatives that so far tested safe for reefs. I understand the fear and caution and well, the cost of a tank crash due to copper impurities would be huge.

Fear is the path to the dark side. (and a method to convince people to spend more on products than they need to..)

Both are valid arguements. I don't know the answers either.

[thebanker]

Tagging along! Sounds promising so far.

[THE JOEY]

How about getting a MSDS from where you bought it. Then you can see what is in it. MSDS = material safety data sheet they keep it online.

[travis32]

Found the MSDS, I tried to find it before. Scotwood Industries, Inc, also does the Prestone driveway heat that Randy Holmes Farley, indicated could be safe in one of his substitution chemistry articles. (I've ready them several times, thoroughly..)

The MSDS says:
Typical
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) % 94 MIN 94.0 MIN
Alkali Chlorides (as NaCl) % 5 MAX 4.0 MIN
Magnesium (as MgCl2) % 0.02 MAX 0.01 MIN
Other impurities (except moisture) % 0.20 MAX 0.10 MIN

Trace amounts of Magnesium. Not sure .02% would be significant in an aquarium to affect Mg levels. I also don't know what the impact of alkali chlorides at 5% is.

as compared to prestone driveway heat:

Calcium Chloride 90 - 92%
Potassium Chloride 2 - 3%
Water 4 - 6%
Sodium Chloride 1 - 2%
Calcium Bromide < 1%


I tested calcium tonight it was at 470. after having dosed a combo of BRS CACL and The ice melt in RODI water 24 hours ago.

So, I did not dose anymore than what my Kalk top off doses. Corals had full extension, fish were hungry. Nothing was closed. Snails, crabs, and other inverts did not show any signs of stress so far.

But, I only dosed approximately 15 - 25% of a gallon 24 hours ago (I think that the jug is more than a gallon, why I can't give a precise amount. It was around a cup and a half or 12 oz of liquid roughly.) And I should note that 24 hours ago, CA was 370 then.

[Percula9]

Some people also have been using Damp Rid as a alternative calcium replacement with no problems. I might try it as I work in a hardware store and get a discount.

[eskymick]

It looks like Scotwood is also the supplier of the Prestone Driveway Heat. Could it be just a matter of branding?

[travis32]

That's what I'm thinking. It's kind of ironic, the 50lb bucket I got from Sam's isn't even listed as part of their product inventory on their website. The bucket is branded "excel 50 SWI Ice Melt".

After looking at their website they have the Excel 50 product line in bags and boxes. No buckets. I'm assuming here, that the bucket line was exclusively for Sams Club outlets only. That, or the website has not been updated with their current inventory. Either way the MSDS fact sheet is for the product line, not the packaging method.

Also, your comment on SWI just rebranding the chemicals, there's the conspiracist in me that wonders if online vendors get the chemicals from places like SWI, and then rebrand and resell them, hence the need for inlfated prices to have a proffit.

Obviously there's no proof and no way to prove either way, so, nothing more than an unfounded opinion. ;)

[eskymick]

I wonder if the product as available at Walmart, as well ?

[travis32]

esky, I looked at walmart first. All I could find was a small pallet of icemelt in the automotive area, in a very out of the way area, and it was some generic brand of almost pure rock salt and it was in bags.

The prestone driveway heat, I found online that Ace Hardware has it, at least in their warehouses and will ship to local store at no charge. They had 50lb bags of it for $23.99 when I checked a few days ago.

[HighlandReefer]

Unfortunately the MSDS sheets do not provide a brake down of the contaminates in their products. Certainly SWI sells their salts to large sellers which are then packaged & distributed. Many of the salt mix manufacturers use the industrial salts in their mixes, which does lead to higher levels of the contaminates (trace elements) in the salt mixes we use then found in pristine natural reef water.

The major concern I see when using these industrial salts like calcium chloride and magnesium chloride is if one decides to boost their levels substantially in their tank water. Even the food grade salts contain enough contaminates to possibly cause problems, hence the recommendation to boost calcium and magnesium levels slowly, certainly not more than 100 ppm for mag and perhaps less than 100 ppm calcium.

Luckily for us, the heavy metals tie quickly to organic compounds in reef water which makes them much less toxic and can be removed using GAC, hence the recommendation to use GAC. You do need to add the supplements slower to allow time for the heavy metals to tie with the organics & be removed using GAC. The ionic forms of heavy metals in these supplements are much more toxic to our tank organisms. ;)

Unfortunately, most of the over the counter supplements (calcium and mag) don't state on the label which grade salts are used, they could be industrial grade as well, which would put more money in the manufacturers pocket. If they do use food grade or better, you would think they would put this on their label, since it would make their product more attractive.

Measuring the ammonia levels in these industrial grade salts is a good thing to keep tabs on, since ammonia is a known byproduct of the manufacturing process. This is why their can be measurable ammonia levels in salt mixes. :)

[travis32]

That was the first thing I did after it dissolved was test for Ammonia. Tha that would have been the clincher for me if some were detected.

I was surprised to see it was undetectable.

And I Added carbon to my BRS GFO / Carbon reactor. I'm running both GFO And Carbon together, but, it's better than nothing. I do also have a filter sock with carbon in it in the sump, but, it's just floating which I'm not sure that would accomplish anything. So, I added half cup to cup of carbon to the reactor just in case.

I didn't even know that carbon would assisting in binding in the metals. Instinct just told me hey. let's get the carbon updated as that is a safety net for a lot of things.

Thanks for the great information Cliff!!

I also agree on adding them slower. I did not intend to add them that fast. It looks like the new mix combo of the ice melt is definately a higher concentrate than the BRS pellets. I am looking for a dosing system, until then I will try to dose twice a day instead of all at once.

Know of a way to get economic dosing system I'm interested.. $100.00 a pump doesn't seem economic to me. ;)

That's more than I've spent on fish so far. LOL.

[HighlandReefer]

Your welcome. ;)

Dosing pumps are not cheap and they should be put on a timer to help prevent accidental overdose. One reason why I prefer kalk water, since you only need one dosing pump setup. Kalk is cheap as well. :)

[travis32]

I'm using Kalkwater, but it appears to be insufficient. Unless I have something else going on. but with 1.5 gallons of Kalk water top off daily, it is not meeting my ca and Alk consumption needs.


I'm making sure the kalkwater is saturated at 2 tspoons per gallon. I was trying to find a way to automate dosing CA and alk supplements in addition to using kalkwater as my top off.

[HighlandReefer]

Well, you can increase your current alk and calcium production by about 1/3 or so by adding vinegar to the mix. You would want to use 3 teaspoons of kalk + 45 ml of vinegar to 1 gallon of rodi water. FWIW, Randy & I have done this without bacterial blooms or other problems & doing this will help reduce nitrate. ;)

[travis32]

Oh Sweet! That'd be awesome. :)

Then I could just use the CACL and Baking soda as minor adjustors (weekly or whatever.) That opens up possibilities.

So, is the ratio of ca / alk consumption based on number of corals / size of corals. e.g. if I add a lot more corals will consumption exceed what is feasible to dose via kalkwater or manual. E.g. could consumption get up to 5 - 10 ml /hour? Just wondering because my tank is thinly populated with corals. I do have several fairly large SPS and some smaller LPS and softies.

I plan on adding a lot more LPS and Softies over time. Will that have a recognizable impact on consumption. So for example, if I plan on waiting a year or more before getting dosers. I wouldn't want to add more than x more number of corals of "medium" size. Right now I don't plan on adding anything until I have a steady hold of the chemistry consumption.

[iammrhappy]

Oh Sweet! That'd be awesome. :)

Then I could just use the CACL and Baking soda as minor adjustors (weekly or whatever.) That opens up possibilities.




Hey Travis, I hate to revive a 5 year old thread, but I wanted to ask you how the Excel worked for you? I found these buckets for a really good price here in Socal.

I want to buy maybe 5 buckets to last me a few reef lifetimes.

Did you find anything wrong with this particular product? Thanks!