Hawaiian flame angel

[LemonLemon]

I'm aware that flames from the Hawaiian islands are rare and are typically red throughout unlike their orangey marshall island/ xmas island counterparts.

i found this in my regular hawaii shipment, bought it at a cheap regular flame angel price, but found it to be very much redder than normal.

is this a hawaii flame?
if yes, does this red colouration only exist in hawaii? or can a xmas /marshall island one appear this red too?

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5797/16777147162182243370776.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/16777147162182243370776.jpg/)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5012/16511947162190743370776.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/16511947162190743370776.jpg/)

doesn't matter to me if it's a regular flame or a hawaiian flame. i like it because for it's little barring and it's redder colouration. makes no difference to me even if it is a xmas island flame :)

it's paired up with a male from marshall islands which has many more bars than it.

so the pair makes a good contrast. one with little bars, the other with many bars.

[MikeandNicole]

Wherever it is from it is a beut!!!

[collegeman]

I really do not know, but it sure does look amazing

[ccampbell57]

I would say phenomenal find. Looks like a true Hawaiian to me

[LemonLemon]

thanks everyone.

here's a couple more pics of the female.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7613/img0604bd.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/img0604bd.jpg/)

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7856/img0614rk.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/img0614rk.jpg/)

[LemonLemon]

here's the male.

the male is a normal xmas/marshall island one from the same batch. in fact, all looked like the marshall/xmas island one except the female. the intense red stood out like a sore thumb. but all sold for the same price.

the male has many more bars compared to the female and the female has very few. i thought it made a cute pair with such contrasting differences.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/99/img0606pi.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/img0606pi.jpg/)

[LemonLemon]

i treated them for flukes and yep, they did come with many flukes.

i had an old aberrant flame angel that resembled the marquesan flame a little. i posted it here before. it however, did not make it and never really seemed healthy anyway.

this current pair will replace the older one which IMO, was nicer and more unique.

[roktsintst]

Very nice lemon! Great find. I wanted to find a trio of hawaiian flame for my tank until I met someone who said that they don't make it through copper treatments! Suprisingly, I've lost 2 in qt already. Im just not comfortable adding fish to the tank that don't go through full qt.

What was your treatment for flukes lemon?

Anyone have experience treating flames with prazi or flukes?

[LemonLemon]

a combination of FW dips and prazi. although i'm not sure if prazi does anything.

FW dips are super effective though. the flukes drop right off after FW dips.

i've no luck with flame angels however. throughout my life i lost 8 flames already. they just either don't eat or just go missing one day.

these 2 will be my last.

such an easy fish and i can't keep them. if these 2 die i'll stop forever.

[flameangel88]

Anyone have experience treating flames with prazi or flukes?


Never had any problem treating FAs or centropyges with prazi in the past and over the years they've gone through a rounds. Perform a 6 minutes FW dip and you'll be able to see if theres any flukes before treating with prazi.

[flameangel88]

Lemon, that's a great looking FA. If I could find some I would definitely add a few. I've 3 CI FAs and they get along with all the other angels without any problem including a pair of lemonpeel.

[roktsintst]

Kev, I treat all fish with 2 full rounds of prazi regardless. I dont bother with teh FW Dip as it is a stressful event in itself and i plan on doing prazi anyway.

What experience do you have with cupramine or any other copper product?

Lemon - that is interesting you have had some trouble with them as well. I was never under the impression that they were difficult. Both I've lost were in QT but only after the addition of meds. The meds were administered properly because more delicate species did just fine...

[LemonLemon]

i've always never had the ability keep flame angels. no idea why.

some just dont eat or dissapear.

here's my old one http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17671157

it died too.

sigh.

[flameangel88]

Ryan,

I used to treat 2 rounds of prazi regardless but of late I've been doing away with that and only on a need to basis. Been refrain from adding fish and when I do it's only from a handful of vendors that've treated their lots. Last 2 fishes added the vendor had them for 5+ weeks.

As for copper I've only used cupramine and my personal experiences is all my fishes handle it very well. On 2 separate occasions with velvet I'd to run it as high as 0.8-0.9 for 5 days and 7 days. Lost a few on the early stage of velvet but not due to high level of cupramine.

[flameangel88]

Lemon, I've seen a lot of threads with FAs dying for no apparent reason and I can't figure it out myself. However, most of the ones that don't make it are usually added within a few weeks so the one that does make it usually do well. For some reason the first pic on top it looks like a male (or changing male to me). Best of luck on your new pair and it's a really beautiful.

[pacislandaqua]

some CXI flames are coming in super nice and red with little bars. its possible it is a CXI flame :)

[Jacob D]

Ryan,

I've treated flames with Prazi without issue. The last were a pair I picked up from the Den and they handled the treatment just fine, I did not copper them however.

I've been trying to source some Hawaiian flames for a while now. Have a couple people keeping an eye out for me but nada so far.


Lemon,
That's a beauty and whether it's a Hawaiian endemic or not it sure has the color... so who cares!

[LemonLemon]

thanks jacob D and the rest.

the very red one is not really a female and not really a male either. it's probably in between. but the other one is very male as you can see from it's finnage and extra blue colouration. the fins are almost trailing like a holcanthus.

actually my hypothesis is this. the collectors go to hawaii to collect the endemic potters and fisher, and also catch some hawaiian flames there, although with less numbers due to their rarity.

then they bring it back to hawaii collection center and mix with all the others from christmas islands and marshall islands.

i buy my flame angels from a farm in my country which carry as many as 100-150 flame angels per shipment and sell them very very cheap at wholesale price. so the high number of flames could mean that 1 or 2 real hawaiian ones get shipped as well either by accident or by luck or whatever.

the LFS here in my country no not sort them out and sell all at same price. so it could be that these are indeed from hawaii flames that get mixed up or wat.

i occasionally see one or two in a batch of hundreds of flames. so it's a possibility.

but i'm not an expert on angels. so i cant comment much. it's just a guess.

[LemonLemon]

initially started out bickering but they've gotten along very very well now.

the happy pair :) from this picture it's very obvious the male on top is much much more male than the female below in terms of finnage.

the difference in colour is also quite obvious.



http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3561/indexphpjw.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/indexphpjw.jpg/)

[LargeAngels]

It does look like a Hawaiin as it is much redder and fewer stripes. Very nice looking fish. Very similar to my Hawaiin flames. I haven't had any problems with flames and Cupramine and Prazipro.

[flameangel88]

Hey Lemon,

Any update on the pair? Please post some pictures.

Thanks!

[flameangel88]

Sorry for the double post.

[LemonLemon]

funny you should ask!

i just took some new photos yesterday and i'll share the progress of all of them with you now.

apparently, the female flame angel with the intense red coloration i obtained was not a true hawaiian flame angel. i've been asking around and apparently, super red forms may also exist in marshall islands and other pacific islands.

it's like saying all hawaiian flames are red, but not all regular flame angels are "not red". but in time, the red gradually lighten up and it became a regular, orangey colored flame angel. this was probably due to the location and diet? maybe? and since it's not from the main hawaiian islands and is not the real hawaiian flame angel, it never kept it's red.

so now the female and male look the same in terms of coloration. orangey-red.

i've also added in 2 hybrids (rusty x flame) angels to the pair and all 4 now live in a harem.

during the initial process of adding the hybrids, there was intense bickering, and i mean intense. but i decided against separating them and within a week, all has been settled and they all live harmoniously now.

it's also interesting to note that the 2 hybrids were initially male when i obtained them. their fins were longer and contained much more blue. now the've reverted back to females and all three angels, (the female flame and the 2 now female hybrids) are spawning with that one male flame angel.

here's a picture of all of them.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/362/37865410150335661102434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/37865410150335661102434.jpg/)

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3065/30244410150335661262434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/30244410150335661262434.jpg/)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6003/dsc0017sc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/dsc0017sc.jpg/)

[LemonLemon]

although the male flame angel spawns with all three of it's females, it prefers spawning with the female flame angel.

only when the female flame is unreceptive, then it turns to the hybrids. and i've seen spawning of all three before in one session but somehow i'm always never fast enough or lucky enough to get a good shot with the male spawning with the hybrids. imagine if i did, that'll be pretty awesome!

here's some shots of the male doing it's thing with the female flame. i must get a shot like this of the male with it's hybrids.

it's clear from these photos that the female has lost it's vibrant red when i first had it, and now is more orangey, and similarly colored as the male. the male was a marshall island flame, and likely the female as well.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2856/37397210150335534782434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/37397210150335534782434.jpg/)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5544/29680310150335534917434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/521/29680310150335534917434.jpg/)

[LemonLemon]

and one last photo of the ever horny polygamous sex maniac.

he's quite a studly male. the finnage is pretty impressive and long but it's not the manliest flame angel i've seen! i saw one that had filaments like a mini Holacanthus angel!

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1641/30723410150335534592434.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/30723410150335534592434.jpg/)

[29reef]

That guy is the BOSS and he knows it ;) very cool. Its very interesting that when the female flame is occupied that the male will move along to the other females even if they aren't the right color. Fish behavior is fascinating to me. Thanks for sharing your pics.

Some day I'll enjoy some of these angels, but for now I'm going to settle for polyp extension.

[flameangel88]

Lemon,

Thanks for the update. That's pretty much what I read about CI flames in which the intense red will turn orange over time.

Here's my CI flame back in 2007
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/FA2.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_1408Large.jpg

[flameangel88]

Lemon, that's a great looking FA. If I could find some I would definitely add a few.

Well, I waited and waited then I saw a few individuals for sale but not in pairs or trios. But glad I waited because over the weekend I PIA had a pair and I didn't hesitate. It will be here tomorrow.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/TrueHawaiiTigerFlame11-12-11150.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/TrueTigerFlame11-12-11150.jpg

[flameangel88]

Lemon, that's a great looking FA. If I could find some I would definitely add a few.

Well, I waited and waited then I saw a few individuals for sale but not in pairs or trios. But glad I waited because over the weekend I saw PIA had a pair and I didn't hesitate. It will be here tomorrow.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/TrueHawaiiTigerFlame11-12-11150.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/TrueTigerFlame11-12-11150.jpg

[Sharkdog22]

holy hell that male is freakin sweet looking

[Amoore311]

Ahhh so you were the one that got them before me!

Now I might have to "settle" for the coral beauties lol.

[flameangel88]

Ahhh so you were the one that got them before me!

Now I might have to "settle" for the coral beauties lol.



As soon as I saw it on Saturday I added and check out right away. I'd to email Kevin to add another fish afterward.

No, don't settle just for the CB pair get the potters pair as well and I must say both pairs look very good.

[LemonLemon]

flameangel, your hawaiian flame angel pair is gorgeous!!

[flameangel88]

Thanks. I'll try to put up some pics tonight.

[Dr Colliebreath]

Those fish look amazing. It worked out nicely for you. Good luck with them.

[nino4u]

Congrats... they look amazing... Good luck with them... :D

[flameangel88]

Thanks everyone.

After acclimating them both are settling in the QT with just room light at the moment. I'll try feeding them before going to bed.

Both looks very good and the way both interact in the container box while I was snapping pics away I'm confident this is a true pair. Depending on the light angle you can see the orange on the body and this is also seen on PIA's pic. But the red is very intense.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9397.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9398.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9405.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9408.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9401.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9407.jpg

[flameangel88]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9404.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9402.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9400.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_9399.jpg


Update: the pair is already eating ON Reef flakes. Yea :) Will try frozen soon.

[Dragon moray ki]

Do they pick at your coral idle to get one for my 92

[A_Z]

very red and beautiful

yes also interested how safe they would be with soft corals like zoanthids, leathers etc ?

[flameangel88]

very red and beautiful

yes also interested how safe they would be with soft corals like zoanthids, leathers etc ?

Thanks. I'd a good amount of zoas with a coral beauty and they were gone quick so I don't think it will be much different with flame angels. The cb did leave leathers, bta, frogspawn, mushrooms alone.