lost my flame angel yesterday, why?

[mnowicki]

Lost my flame angel yesterday. I had it in a QT for 2.5 weeks and she seemed perfectly fine and happy until she crashed within 24 hours. She first stopped eating late morning, then started losing her tail/back fins and her color towards the evening, and then died the next morning. This all happened with no visible signs of fungus, parasites, or disease. The only visible things were paling, her tail/back fins being lost, and elevated breathing. Additionally, during the evening when she was crashing she primarily sat by where the HOB filter return was and made bubbles, being covered in them. A 50% PWC was done early morning the day she died because she was already looking like she was about to die laying at the bottom of the tank not swimming any more. This seemed to get her moving again and swimming around, maybe even gaining a bit of color for a few minutes but then within a half hour she was laying at the bottom again.

The QT tank had been set up with small pieces of LR from a 4 month old tank and was 10 gallons with HOB carbon filtration. No other fish were in the tank and the angel was about 2". She was fed a mixture of pellets, Formula 1, and Formula 2, which she all ate. For a rough approximation she ate about 15 1mm pellets per day (3x5pellets) and swam around during the majority of the day. Also the water parameters during this crash were as follows: Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=20, Ph=8.4, salinity=1.024, and temp = 77. RO/DI water and Instant ocean salt mix was used.

What could've caused her death? It all happened so quick, she went from not eating to dead within a day, and from showing visible signs of stress to dead within 12 hours. I'm new to this hobby and would just like to know what I could've done next time and what could've caused the death? Is it something that I did or could it have been some sort of disease that was lingering and finally surfaced.

[jaesong]

Did you treat for flukes? I have had problems with flukes on my angelfish and butterflyfish. I treat with PraziPro now.

If infected, you may see all this white rice/wormy looking stuff falling off your fish when you treat them. Even in a FW dip, you may see some fall off.

[JCR's Reef]

It may have also been a result of how the fish was collected

[mnowicki]

No i didn't do any treatments as a result of the fish acclimating to my QT so quickly and behaving normal. Also there were no visible parasites on the scales or near the gills. I hated the idea of treating a fish without being sure its sick due to the added stress of medicating a healthy fish. Seems like an opinionated topic, that I'm unsure about what to do for my next fish I quarantine.

Is it possible for a fish to have this disease and die from it without ever seeing anything?

[mnowicki]

Josh would you mind explaining a bit more in terms of what you mean? All I know is the fish store had it for 2 weeks and they said she was doing very well, then I had her for 2.5 weeks. Could something that happened 4.5 weeks ago cause the death, despite it behaving normal for all that time? Interesting if it could, and makes me think that this hobby is a lot touchier/difficult than i initially thought :/

[JCR's Reef]

Some divers use poisons to stun the fish to make them easier to catch (Not saying this was done to yours), but they usually die within 2-6 weeks if I remember right.
Also, I have had fish that looked like nothing was on them. Upon closer inspection I noticed very tiny clear spots on the eyes. That lead me to examine a fish really close (trigger) and seen them around the gills as well. These were tiny flukes, I assumed, even though they had a slightly different color and smaller size.
It's good that you QT everything. I am also against using chemical treatments. I treat by Hypo-salinity over a 3 month period. 2weeks (unless fish is already sick) to drop to 1.009, leave at 1.009 for 8 weeks, and very slowly raise back to 1.026 for 2weeks. I had to treat all of my fish from my main DT at once a couple of yrs ago and didn't loose a single fish. I have lost many by copper, freshwater dips, etc..so I dont do them anymore. I do use a slow process to ensure less stress. The safest bottle product I use in case I have to dip a fish is Paraguard. Here is some of the thread to give you an idea. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1613780.

[Sk8r]

It's very sad: they're such a beautiful fish. The good news is, it happened in qt and you don't have to worry now about something loose in your dt. In that sense, qt functioned as it should.

But do let the lfs know about it, and tell them what precautions you took. They may need to advise their supplier, who may need to ask questions at his end.

[mnowicki]

wow wasn't aware that such methods of collecting existed... u really gotta be messed up to do something like that just to make a living. What a shame. I really appreciate the information guys. Will be going to the LFS where I got the fish today to let them know what happened. Will definitely try again with a flame sometime soon, really love the fish, hopefully this time it'll go better.

So there isn't much more I could've done in order to ensure the success of the fish? Maybe try to inspect closer for anything on the fish?

[Sk8r]

By your description, the only possible thing I could think of is fin rot, a bacterial infection: but to go that fast---finrot usually takes days and days, is a white rim to the fins, and you have ample time to id and treat, iME.

Prazipro and Paraguard both have good reps, but I prefer to qt without any treatment until it's demonstrated there's a problem---and what kind of problem.

I think the cyanide collection thing is most likely---and if somebody's doing it, the word needs to spread up the chain, to those who hire the blighters way out in the islands.

[Angel*Fish]

I'm so sorry, I don't know what happened to your fish, but intestinal parasites are so common with angels that I almost always give them some prazipro orally by soaking some of their food in it. I don't remember exact dosing, but if you google Kelly Jedlicki you can probably find information. She recommends weighing the fish, but in my experience you can estimate.

Kudos on using some rock in the quarantine for an angel. Another helpful thing is to buy some macroalgae to put in there with it.

The fin rot may have been a secondary infection or symptom.

I would definitely have a talk with the owner of the store and ask if they've had other deaths. Or ask where their fish come from. It's been so long since I've been more involved with this stuff, but I believe you want to at least make sure the fish doesn't come from the Philippines. A reputable delaer is going to do everything h/she can to make sure they are from reliable sources. But angels are so hard to catch, it's hard even for the retailers.

This difficulty of capture is one reason you won't see the more secretive and deepwater species in my tank. I have no need to own a "rare" angel when there are so many lovely ones that are more commonly found and easier to catch. They may kill as much as 90% to get the other 10% to market.