LED driver questions

[hvacman250]

Already have a 72 light, 1/2 RB, 1/2 CW combo on my tank in sig and am pleased. Corals are growing fine. However, the DIY builder in me wants to experiment more.

I was thinking 96 LEDS, with a mixture of RB, B, CW, and NW. I would like to control each color separately. Originally I planned on 8 Meanwell 48D drivers, but kcress mentioned there was a better way with other brand drivers.

What drivers, and how many, should I buy. I do want to be able to dim each color separately.

Thanks!

[MosMike]

You'll need 4 drivers at least. To be more specific you must calculate the max. wattage per color.

[hvacman250]

I should have stated more in my first post. I know this whole color/ratio of LEDs is a HUGE controversy, but here is my iniital thought:

24 NW
12 CW
48 RB
12 B (or 6 B/6 Violet)

3W Crees, unless another brand is better.

[kcress]

Hi hvacman250.

First off don't refer to LEDs as 3W. It's meaningless and confusing. Better would be to refer to the model numbers. XPG, XPE, etc., etc.

So if you are talking:
XPG 24 NW
XPG 12 CW
XPE 48 RB
XPE 12 B

That seems pretty reasonable.

If you want to run all the colors separately...

You can run the 24 NW on one ELN60
The 12 CW on one.
The 48 RB on two.
The 12 B on one.

That's five ELN60s. Not my favorite but not bad. For an experimental job I'd probably go that route.

A better quality controller would be to use this model instead:
http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-80h/default.htm
as it provides Power Factor Correction. (PFC) BUT! These controllers state in their data sheets that you can only use their internal current adjust screws to turn them down to about 1A which would be too much for the single strings. You'd have to make sure the PWM or dimming input never allowed them to go to 100%.

If this is the only fixture in the house go with the ELNs if it's just one of many than consider using the HLGs.

You would run the dual strings in the typical parallel setup. 1 ohm resistors for current measurement and fuses in each of the parallel strings.

You could also use one HLG150-48 to run all the RB.

Prolly what I'd do:

XPG 12 NW
XPG 12 NW HLG80-48

XPG 12 CW ELN60-48

XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB ELN150-48

XPE 12 B ELN60-48

Prolly what I'd do.

[widmer]

Can you explain power factor correction again?

[hvacman250]

kcress,

What I'm honestly looking for is a pro like yourself to say "This is the best way to do it" and I will. My first, and only, LED project was 72 LEDS. 36 RB and 36 CW from rapidLED.com. I think the drivers were 35-700 (???) non-dimmable. Basically 12 LEDS per driver, so 6 drivers. I tied 3 drivers (CW) into one plug and the same for the RB. My RKL runs the RBs 10 hrs per day, overlapping the CWs 8 hr cycle. I thought this project was VERY easy, but the pots, dimming, etc talk has me confused. I dont know what a PWN is, etc, etc. I am very good at trouble shooting electronics, but my experience has always been on the high/low voltage AC side, not I'm discovering the world of DC.

Another note: My last reef tank was 10 yrs ago, and if I remember right I used PC lighting. Maybe made the switch to HO before quitting. Now I made the plunge into LEDs while my tank was being fabricated. So my problem is I've NEVER experienced MHs, different color spectrums, etc. The only thing I can compare is the LFS tanks that use MH. I do have a 40 BR that has a 4x39W Aquatic Life T5 fixture, but it has stock bulbs. Comparing the two, my LED lit 100 gallon is much nicer.

Lastly, I shouldn't have said "experimental". My current LED fixture was experimental. The one I am planning will be a final fixture, so I want to do it perfect. 96 LEDs should be more than enough over a 42x24 footprint, considering thats 24 more than I have now and I have good growth. Adding the ability to dim should give me acclimation ability since I am stepping up, and the ability to fine tune my color spectrum.

Thanks soooo much for all the help you guys provide!!! If anybody ever needs anything HVAC related, please ask.

[kcress]

Can you explain power factor correction again?

Widdy. It means the driver draws all the power it uses from the wall uniformly - not in just peak gulps as the ELN series does. It reduces harmonics to an insignificant level.

[kcress]

hvacman250; I would do exactly what I stated as 'prolly'.

If you aren't controlling the lights with a controller just hook them up with POTs to control the individual colors.

For the HLGs use the "B" versions for external dimming control.

[hvacman250]

Whats the difference between a ELN-60-48D...and P ?

I am buying the D, correct?

Also, I spent about 20 minutes on Google searching for a ELN150-48 with no luck. Any suggestions? Hopefully I can get that one at the same place as the HLG80-48. Then do an order at Rapid LED for the LEDs and ELN60s.

Thanks!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

The difference between D and P for the ELN series is if it's meant for an analog or digital signal. You want the analog version.

[hvacman250]

The difference between D and P for the ELN series is if it's meant for an analog or digital signal. You want the analog version.

Does D=digital and P=analog?

Digital meaning if I was using an Apex controller? And analog as in a potentiometer?

[kcress]

Also, I spent about 20 minutes on Google searching for a ELN150-48 with no luck. Any suggestions?



Yeah! My suggestion is to look for something that exists - not some brain phart number I gave you.

Not an ELN150 and HLG150-48

Gads! My sincere apologies!!

[hvacman250]

http://www.peaktopeakled.com/ledpowersupplies/clg-150-48.html is the only place I have found that part number, but its not a B, and doesnt appear dimmable.

Who sells the HLG 80 and 150?

Sorry to be a pain!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Does D=digital and P=analog?

Digital meaning if I was using an Apex controller? And analog as in a potentiometer?

Actually it's backwards from that. D is the analog version, and P is the digital (PWM) version.

D is meant for an analog signal - as you would get by chopping a reference voltage with a pot. P is meant for a digital PWM signal - as you'd get from a microcontroller or other digital device that can supply PWM.

Basically, unless you have an active controller that you know produces PWM, you want the analog version. Analog is probably the better choice for people who don't know enough to answer the question themselves. :)

[kcress]

http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-150h-48b-power-supply.html#right

??? Maybe it's another vaporware.

[hvacman250]

http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-hlg-150h-48b-power-supply.html#right

??? Maybe it's another vaporware.

I don't know what that means :)

They did show a HLG80-48, too, but no price and says" product not found". Weird.

If I could ever find the parts for this build, maybe I could get going!:lol:

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I know that at least one or two people in here have big HLGs, and they came from either powergate or that other industrial supplier who's name eludes me . . .

[hvacman250]

Since this is such a large and expensive project, I will probably do it in stages. First stage will be mounting the LEDs and wiring them. Questions:

Am I wiring the colors in series, or parallel?

24 NW Series or parallel?
12 CW Series, I assume
48 RB Series or parallel?
12 B (or 6 B/6 Violet) Series, I assume

If parallel, how?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Which exact drivers are you going to use and how many? Do you care about controlling things separately?

Typical practice is to stick with 48v drivers max, which means your string lengths are limited to about 12 - 13 LEDs. So if you are going to have more than 12 of a given color, and you want to run them in a single group, you'd probably get a driver with higher current and run parallel strings.

For instance, using the counts you just posted and assuming everything will be run at 1A, you'd want:

24 NW: two parallel strings of 12 series LEDs on a 48v 2A driver
12 CW: one string of 12 in series on a 48v 1A driver
48 RB: four parallel strings of 12 series LEDs on 48v 4A driver
12 B: one string of 12 in series on a 48v 1A driver

Of course you can bunch things together if you don't care about controlling each LED separately.

For instance, you could put all 36 whites on a 48v 3A driver (three parallel strings of 12 series LEDs).

[dendrodude]

http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=CLG-150-48A-MW

What about here. It has an A after it, not dimmable?

[dendrodude]

Sry found it here
http://www.meanwell.com/search/clg-150/clg-150-spec.pdf
B and C are dim and A is not

[hvacman250]

Which exact drivers are you going to use and how many? Do you care about controlling things separately?

Typical practice is to stick with 48v drivers max, which means your string lengths are limited to about 12 - 13 LEDs. So if you are going to have more than 12 of a given color, and you want to run them in a single group, you'd probably get a driver with higher current and run parallel strings.

For instance, using the counts you just posted and assuming everything will be run at 1A, you'd want:

24 NW: two parallel strings of 12 series LEDs on a 48v 2A driver
12 CW: one string of 12 in series on a 48v 1A driver
48 RB: four parallel strings of 12 series LEDs on 48v 4A driver
12 B: one string of 12 in series on a 48v 1A driver

Of course you can bunch things together if you don't care about controlling each LED separately.

For instance, you could put all 36 whites on a 48v 3A driver (three parallel strings of 12 series LEDs).



Following kcress's advice:

Prolly what I'd do:

XPG 12 NW
XPG 12 NW HLG80-48

XPG 12 CW ELN60-48

XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB
XPE 12 RB HLG150-48

XPE 12 B ELN60-48

Prolly what I'd do.

This way I can dim each color separately. The 2 12's in series are simple; like I did before + to -, + to -, and so on.

How do I wire in parallel?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

How do I wire in parallel?

You make a bunch of series strings as normal, and then connect them all to the driver "next" to each other. So, the "+" from each string goes to the "+" on the driver, and the "-" from each string goes to the "-" on the driver.

The fuses and resistors go in series in each string.

[firechild]

Interestingly, I'm actually doing a 96 emitter build at the moment, using:

18x XP-G NW
24x XP-G CW
18x XP-E Blue
36x XP-E RB

I'll be using 8x ELN-60-48D drivers simply because I do not want the hassle of parallel strings. I will be using a Flora-Mate 4 channel controller for automated dimming of the 4 different colours. There is no cost saving by going with HLG drivers on parallel strings and there is more work. The only advantage of the HLG drivers with parallel strings is less drivers.

[hvacman250]

Interestingly, I'm actually doing a 96 emitter build at the moment, using:

18x XP-G NW
24x XP-G CW
18x XP-E Blue
36x XP-E RB

I'll be using 8x ELN-60-48D drivers simply because I do not want the hassle of parallel strings. I will be using a Flora-Mate 4 channel controller for automated dimming of the 4 different colours. There is no cost saving by going with HLG drivers on parallel strings and there is more work. The only advantage of the HLG drivers with parallel strings is less drivers.

I originally thought that, but heard the inrush of current from 8 drivers produces masses amounts of current. Only for a moment, but enough to trip breakers ???

If so, are you relying on firing them at different times to avoid this?

The deeper I get into this, the more confused I get...

[firechild]

You could always use the Thomas Research drivers that nanotuners are selling. They offer drivers of 40/75/120W at either 700mA or 1050mA (or 1400mA at 75W). I have seriously considered these drivers as they would reduce the number of drivers I require to 4. They also have a built in 10V reference voltage for dimming. A 120W driver @ 700mA gives 171V, you could run up to 50 emitters with a forward voltage of 3.3V in a single string. It also means you are not limited to multiples of 12 for each colour.

[firechild]

As for inrush current, I will likely split the drivers to 2 separate timers which will reduce the inrush current at any given time. Since the whites will not start powering up for some time after the blues, I can split the times easily, even if it is simply by 15min.

[kcress]

Electrical beginners should not attempt builds with any drivers that deliver more than about 48V. Most builds we see have various shorts to ALL the aluminum.

[dendrodude]

The 150w meanwell I mentioned has built in dimmer pot as well the model c has two rubber stops on top take them off insert screwdriver.

[alonglongtime]

It would be interesting to see a diagram/schematic of some of these designs that are posted. For those of us who are just beginning to explore LED's all of the names and references are a bit confusing. Thank you