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nreefer
01/21/2011, 09:03 AM
Hi all, after reading mulitple threads I think I have finally gathered the info I need to start my build. However the one thing I am not sure about is the hazard of running the 17 Meanwell drivers that my set up requires.
My overall build will consist of 2 banks of Led’s that are each made from 7 x 1 inch U-Channels each channel is 42 inches long with a spacing of 2 inches between each channel. So each “heatsink” bank will be 19 inches wide by 42 inches long.
Each bank will contain 102 LED’s with the configuration being decided between the two options:

#1) 48 XP-G Cool White, 48 XP-E Royal Blue, and 6 XP-G Neutral White (50:50) ratio
Or
#2) 36 XP-G Cool White, 60 XP-E Royal Blue, and 6 XP-G Neutral White (40:60) ratio

I am leaning towards option #1 as the new XP-E Royal Blue Bulbs are supposed to emit 20% more luminous flux than the XR-E. (XP-E blue puts out about 20% more luminous flux (500 vs. 425) than the XR-E does). Or I can stick with Option #2 and assume the XP-E and XR-E are similar and if I find they are much brighter I can always dim them.

Optics: The fixture will be 11 inches off the surface of the water, my plan was to increase the deg. on each optic as I approached the center of the tank. So:
Row 1 & 7 would have 40 deg.
Row 2 & 6 would have 60 deg.
Row 3 & 5 would have 60 deg.
Row 4 would have no optics as the corals are already about 5-6 inches from the surface of the water.

Here is my real concern though. I don’t want to burn down my house with 17 Meanwell drivers. Currently my tank is being lit by 4 x 250DE MH and 4 x T5 Actinics. (Tank is 400 gal. wall divider so viewable from both sides, 96”x 32”x 32”) There is a 6” Eurobracing around the perimeter so my “open water” area is 84” x 20”.

I have 4 separate dedicated 20A plugs behind the tank that would be for the LEDs. Would I still be running a risk of fire if I had 4 x Meanwell drivers per 20A circuit?
Or should I get the Mean Well CLG 150-48A or HLG-240-48A and run the LED’s in parallel? This way I could get away with just 4 of the above (depending on my light configuration options #1 or #2, and then put the Natural Whites on 1xELN-60-48D.
I would like to be able to dim the Royal Blues seperatly from the Cool whites just to get the colour exactly the way I like. Once I set it I doubt I would ever change it.
I would get inline fuses and add the resistors just to protect my investment.
Any help would be much appreciated!

serpentman
01/21/2011, 10:14 AM
What kind of look are you going for. IME, I have found to achieve a 20K appearance, you need close to a 3:1 ration of the XRE:XPG. At 1:1 I found it be be a 10K-like appearance. At 2:1 it seem closer to 12-14K.

mike_cmu04
01/21/2011, 10:47 AM
I dont think you are going to have near enough led's if you are going to keep sps deeper than 20" or so. As deep as your tank you are going have to run alot of 40 degree optics. I run 63 led's on a 92 corner tank for sps that is only 24" deep and i had to go with some 60 degree optics for corals on the bottom..

serpentman
01/21/2011, 10:57 AM
I dont think you are going to have near enough led's if you are going to keep sps deeper than 20" or so. As deep as your tank you are going have to run alot of 40 degree optics. I run 63 led's on a 92 corner tank for sps that is only 24" deep and i had to go with some 60 degree optics for corals on the bottom..

+1. I ran 144 on my 300g and found that I was about 84 short.

nanotank
01/21/2011, 11:25 AM
I am building a setup for my 240 8' long and using 204 cree's for instance with 50 and 70 degree optics on about 1/2 of them.. I would think you are DEF going to need more led's. I use 2 AI fixtures on my 60 cube and that comes out to 48 led on that 24/24/24" tank alone.

mseepman
01/21/2011, 12:06 PM
I would go with a parallel build for sure. If you do, you can save a ton of money on all the Meanwells and spend that on a few more LED's.

I'm going to be doing a 7' 290G build and I was planning on using 188 XPG and XPE's but now I'm thinking I might need a few more.

MosMike
01/21/2011, 12:21 PM
Here is my real concern though. I don’t want to burn down my house with 17 Meanwell drivers.

Would I still be running a risk of fire if I had 4 x Meanwell drivers per 20A circuit?

Could you post the model of the driver?
Are you concerned about inrush current? The PLN-60-48 model has a lower inrush current, also you can stagger the start-up, but you'll need 1 timer per driver for this.

kcress
01/21/2011, 02:29 PM
Use HLG185-48B and parallel the strings.

You do know this has been covered about a hundred times in recent threads?

Plan on 4 strings per HLG185. That would mean one driver per 48 LEDs. And would allow driving up to about 975mA per string.

48XPG one driver.
48XPE one driver.
48XPE one driver.
1:2 or 33%:66%

nreefer
01/21/2011, 02:33 PM
My plan is to have 204 LED’s not 48. With this spacing the LED’s on my 84 inch x 20 inch tank opening I would have LED’s spread every 2.5 inches.

I was told that should be enough. Most of my SPS are in the upper half of the tank but I do have clams on the bottom. The tank is designed as a long island of rock with corals down the length of the tank. So only the outer 8 inches on each side of the island is sand bed. The rest is rock structure covered in Zoo’s, LPS, and SPS.

I am ultimately trying to achieve a 14K look. I run Ushio 14K DE bulbs with T5 actinics and the colour is almost perfect. I would go a tad bluer if I had a choice.

For the driver models, what I have seen are Well CLG 150-48A or HLG-240-48A
I thought about staggering the lighting phase which is fine, I just wasn’t sure whether having that many Meanwells on 4 circuits would cause other issues it if pulsed.

I could go more LED’s if you think it is needed but moving the spacing into every 2 inches I was told was too much.

nreefer
01/21/2011, 02:42 PM
Thanks Kress, I must have missed those threads as I tried to read them all before posting. From what I gather I still need to go 40:60 even with the XP-E Royal Blues.
So that means
72 XP-G Cool White, 120 XP-E Royal Blue, and 12 XP-G Neutral White (40:60) ratio
Do I even need the Neutral Whites? Will it make much of a difference?
My plan was to drive each bank of 36 XP-G CW on an individual CLG-150-48A and then each bank of 60 XP-E Royal Blue on an individual HLG-240-48A.
How do you "Manually Dim" these ballasts? Is it an internal POT that you adjust with a screwdriver?

nreefer
01/21/2011, 02:51 PM
With the 2:1 ration I could easily adjust then so I had 72 XP-G CW and 144 XP-E RB. Skip the Neutral Whites as this tank is on the main floor of my house with floor to ceiling glass windows everywhere and there is a tendency for the lights to look yellow with all the natural light anyway. With this I would still have 7 rows of LED's spaced 2.5 inch centers down the length of the heat sink and 3 inch centers across the width.
Would this be enough light? Or should I be thinking bigger?

nreefer
01/21/2011, 02:52 PM
Kress, where do you find the HLG185-48B ballest?

nanotank
01/21/2011, 03:13 PM
That's the bad thing I am waiting on those drivers also and we are looking at 8-14 weeks from them even being avail and that's if all goes well... I contacted MW USA for this info also.

nreefer
01/21/2011, 03:16 PM
Can I just go with the HLG-240-48A?

nanotank
01/21/2011, 03:21 PM
non of these HLG are avail from what I can find...

nreefer
01/21/2011, 03:23 PM
I see Reefled sells them but not sure.

widmer
01/21/2011, 03:27 PM
FYI for such a huge build, you would see more benefit than others to spend a little extra $ up front and go with the XM series LED. It runs 20% more efficient than XP-G. If you can sneak into a group buy, you can get them for close to the same price of the XP-G.

No there are not optics for it at the store today, but I would bet my new starphire glass box that optics will be released very very soon, like before you would have time to complete the soldering.

nanotank
01/21/2011, 03:30 PM
nreefer.. I see Bill has them listed but I have been told we want the B models so you may want to confirm with kcress.

kcress
01/21/2011, 03:41 PM
The CLGs have the bad ripple problem.

The HLG240s have severe dimming limitations. If you don't mind being limited to only about 50% dimming then they'll work.

Where to buy? Good question. http://i42.*******.com/2zp6ucm.gif

nanotank
01/21/2011, 03:46 PM
The CLGs have the bad ripple problem.

The HLG240s have severe dimming limitations. If you don't mind being limited to only about 50% dimming then they'll work.

Where to buy? Good question. http://i42.*******.com/2zp6ucm.gif

China LOL

nreefer
01/21/2011, 04:34 PM
Thanks Guys,
widmer where so you see the XM series being sold?
kcress, having it only dim 50% is fine as I won't be doing any sunrise sunset. just calibrating the colours to what I like and then leaving it.
Is it true that I want the B models?
Worst case I can also buy half the number of ELN and run 2 parallel strings of 12 on each for a total of 24 LED's per ELN right?

widmer
01/21/2011, 05:04 PM
cutter.com.au

If you buy 50 they're $6.27 each. If you get in a group buy somewhere you could probably go lower than that.

skimate
01/21/2011, 09:35 PM
The CLGs have the bad ripple problem.



It’s only the CLG 60 series that have the huge ripple, the 100 & 150 series only have 150-200mv.
They don’t have any on board adjustment for current or voltage control or dimming though.
The PLN 100 series also have low ripple and some onboard voltage and current adjustment, still no dimming though.

http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/public/ranges/pdfs%5Cr826%5Cr826_3.pdf

kcress
01/21/2011, 11:55 PM
It’s only the CLG 60 series that have the huge ripple, the 100 & 150 series only have 150-200mv.
They don’t have any on board adjustment for current or voltage control or dimming though.
The PLN 100 series also have low ripple and some onboard voltage and current adjustment, still no dimming though.

http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/public/ranges/pdfs%5Cr826%5Cr826_3.pdf


Gaa! What a menagerie the dorks at MW have come up with. Instead of picking some with nice sweet spots like the 48V series they produce 16 of each style so they end up with hundreds of offerings. A hundred offerings mean they end up not stocking ANYTHING.

I work with some semiconductor companies that have the same product diarrhea with the same results. No suppliers can afford to stock it all, so parts you desire have 40 week lead times.

Thanks for pointing out that ripple difference skimate. One more confusion factor. :sad1:

kcress
01/21/2011, 11:59 PM
Thanks Guys,
widmer where so you see the XM series being sold?
kcress, having it only dim 50% is fine as I won't be doing any sunrise sunset. just calibrating the colours to what I like and then leaving it.
Is it true that I want the B models?
Worst case I can also buy half the number of ELN and run 2 parallel strings of 12 on each for a total of 24 LED's per ELN right?

Yes two strings per ELN. But you don't want more than about 8 of those pumping harmonics into your house. So definitely go for something else if you can't manage that. The 240s or whatever.

The "B" allows current adjustment down the cable. If you don't need that feature then use the other model, "A"(?)

steve9
01/22/2011, 02:15 AM
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.47306
plenty of these type from china......have used some smaller ma model with no problem.
Has anybody modded this one for dimming some of the smaller ones are a easy mode.

nreefer
01/23/2011, 02:17 PM
I should be able to get my hands on three HLG-240-48A, then just run 72 XP-G CW on one and 144 XP-E Royal Blue on the other two.
Does everyone think that 216 LED's will be enough for my size tank?

nreefer
01/24/2011, 09:28 AM
How does this plan look:
Heatsink is 7 feet long by 19” wide made from 8 x 1” U channels with 1.4 inch spacing between U channels.
Each length of U-Channel will have 10 XP-G CW, and 18 XP-E Royal Blue spaced on 3” centers for a total of 80 CW and 144 RB
I will be using 4 x HLG-240-48A ballasts.
Ballast #1 driving 40 x XP-G CW (4 strings of 10)
Ballast #2 driving 40 x XP-G CW (4 strings of 10)
Ballast #3 driving 72 x XP-E RB (8 strings of 9)
Ballast #4 driving 72 x XP-E RB (8 strings of 9)

This should allow me to drive the CW at 1000mA and the RB at 750mA
Is this the general recommendation?

I read in one of the posts that is is better to run fewer long strings then multiple short strings. Is my above string count ok or should I change it?
I will use the resistors and quick blow fuses that Kcress recommended in his parallel diagram.
What would be a good fuse to use for the CW? 1400mA? The RB should be 900mA if I can find them.
Then get 9 fans spaced evenly over the U Channels blowing air down thru the LED array and out the sides of the acrylic splash guard.
I just need to find a place to get the Resistors, Fuses, and Terminal Blocks. Has anyone tried using the Cat.5 plugs as quick disconnects? The Wire comes in sets of 8 so it may be perfect for my application.

kcress
01/24/2011, 02:38 PM
Use these terminal blocks if you want 2-position:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=A98503-ND


or use these if you want 6 positions:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=A98507-ND

or find the on-line catalog page to find some other length.


Use these resistors:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=UB5C-1.0-ND

Use these fuses:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=F2313-ND

nreefer
01/25/2011, 10:25 AM
Thanks Kress, the best resistors I could get are 1ohm 5watt 5%. Is this a big deal to go this route or should I get the 1% ones?
Also for fuses the best were 1a for the RB and 1.5a for the CW. I know this is the limit on these LED's but the next level down on the fuses are 700mA and 1A, so I would be probably blowing fuses as I run the lights as that is where I would like to run them.
I went to an electronics store yesterday and found some Molex connectors that would work. If I have these quick disconnects I will be able to measure the power over each string by unplugging the molex and measuring off each pin. Is this an issue or does the entire parallel circuit need to be powered up in order to accurratly measure the power to each string?
Just to confirm, the process is, unplug the string, connect the mulitmeter to bridge the connection and measure.

kcress
01/25/2011, 02:07 PM
I do not recommend measuring currents by unplugging anything!

Turning them off changes everything. They cool down.

Inserting the meter's current shunt changes the current from the no current shunt situation. (Heisenberg Principal)

You can blow your LEDs by accidentally plugging them into a powered driver while you play plug-games.

You can blow your meter by forgetting to switch the leads after doing a measurement.

Use resistors. Yes, while not ideal 5% resistors are usable. Those fuses will probably be fine. Just make sure you're running below their ratings not "at" them.

TenKreefer
01/25/2011, 05:02 PM
[violation]...

DgenR8
01/26/2011, 07:27 AM
You're welcome :wavehand:

nreefer
01/26/2011, 07:56 AM
I do not recommend measuring currents by unplugging anything!

Turning them off changes everything. They cool down.

Inserting the meter's current shunt changes the current from the no current shunt situation. (Heisenberg Principal)

You can blow your LEDs by accidentally plugging them into a powered driver while you play plug-games.

You can blow your meter by forgetting to switch the leads after doing a measurement.

Use resistors. Yes, while not ideal 5% resistors are usable. Those fuses will probably be fine. Just make sure you're running below their ratings not "at" them.

Thanks Kcress, for measuring the Vf on each LED to balance the strings, how do you go about that?

Also what is a good Bin number I should be looking for? I am ordering everything from Rapid LED.