A Salt Water Tank On A Warship?

[Patroklos]

So, I reported to my new ship already on deployment in the Indian Ocean this summer and after moving away from the city I loved and even worse having had to break down my 65g reef.

A couple of weeks later I made an awesome discovery. Our engineering officer has a fresh water bowl tank on her desk with two small frogs! As a hobbyist I found this to be awesome as I had never even contemplated doing this and being a salt water guy and missing my tank even now that we are back home (I won't set my tank up again until I find a place to buy) I immediately began to contemplate how I could keep a saltwater tank in my stateroom.

Now a couple of things to keep in mind:

1.) In no way is this authorized, but I am in a position to be able to bend the rules a bit.

2.) This setup would be a of a pico type that I could keep on my desk. The desk has a recessed space that is about 36"W x8"D x14"H. All dimensions including light must fit into this space

3.) The ship can take roles up to 10 degrees, so the tank must be able to handle that without spilling.

So, the first thing I did was to look for all inclusive pico tanks, and the one I think would work the best is the JBL Picotope 3g ( http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1865 ), though I don't know if the light fixture will fit. I also don't think I can lower the water enough to avoid spillage during rolls and still have the overflow work. This may require that I make a custom setup

As for everyday maintenance, water on board the ship is created via reverse osmosis, but sometimes we brominate the water depending on where we are and I am not sure if this will kill everything. I can get distilled water from the plant, but I was told once that distilled water is harmful. Other than that I would just have to have salt to mix in. Another problem is that the temperature can swing quite a bit, and with such a small water volume the tank won't be very resistant to swinging with it.

As for live stock it would have to be very simple. The food available to me would be strictly dry flack or pellets or similar as I do not have access to refrigeration. Also, given the problems with temperature and possible chemicals in the water I obviously need something hardy. So I was thinking a damsel. Maybe a shrimp. Do you think a leather coral could work?

If I go custom I could just use a bowl with a sponge filter and air stone, and maybe a small heater and powerhead. It would not be pretty but a bowl would be much better at containing water during rolls. It would not have nearly the effective filtration as an all in one store bought setup, but it would be much more flexible.

This is just me daydreaming out loud, I am actually committed to doing this in the slightest. I am just curious if it is actually realistic. I am curious as to what you guy think about the idea or if you have any suggestions that would make it more likely to work.

Thanks for reading!

[Bashbro]

I am new to reefing but all I can say is good luck! Im subscribed. Keep us updated.

[Patroklos]

Ha, well, I don't deploy again until 2012 so there will be no op test for awhile, this is more of a mental exercise in preparation. Though if it proves easier than I think I can just set it up for normal workday enjoyment in port!

[bleedfire]

get water from the ocean as water change
use role ups as wavemaker

or you could just stare in the ocean it is the greatest aquarium in the world.

[Rwinfrey]

I have seen as small as 2.5gl the navy housing here made someone I know take there tank down they told her no more than a 10 gl. Good luck

[c0mp|ex]

If you found a way to somehow suspend the tank, that would make for a cool pico set up and alleviate the rolls. You'd have to experiment but theoretically, gravity would keep the water somewhat level. I'm not sure how much force the rolls have.

[Patroklos]

Ah well Navy housing is one thing, I am talking about on the ship itself. There are only two people I have to worry about saying anything, and the chances of them entering my stateroom are slim to none.

You know, I am a little embarrassed to say this bit it never occurred to me that being on a ship. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN, I could just use seawater. Oddly enough, since there is no use for seawater on a warship except for some firefighting it really would be very difficult to get it. Also, we move around a lot so I am not sure if I would get a consistent product. Definitely something to look into though!

[Patroklos]

Ah well Navy housing is one thing, I am talking about on the ship itself. There are only two people I have to worry about saying anything, and the chances of them entering my stateroom are slim to none.

You know, I am a little embarrassed to say this bit it never occurred to me that being on a ship. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN, I could just use seawater. Oddly enough, since there is no use for seawater on a warship except for some firefighting it really would be very difficult to get it. Also, we move around a lot so I am not sure if I would get a consistent product. Definitely something to look into though!

[spamreefnew]

you could always place a drip pan of sorts below the tank that would hold a gallon or so of water in the event of a strong pitch. salt water could be gathered by lowering a bucket with rope. I think the top off water would be the only tough part. you might want to look into a spring water dispenser or something like that. you could always get friendly with a cook and get some raw seafood scraps for food.

[dogstar74]

If you can anticipate the pitch and roll, then Saran wrap stretched over a regular fish bowl would offer pretty good seal and light penetrance. Sounds most intriguing

[ditka]

I probably shouldn't fuel your imagination, but hey, what the heck.

When i read your dimensions the first tank i thought of was this:

Mr. Aqua 12 long (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=AZ1119&idCartRow=23474693&isKit=0&child=AZ1123)

Then i did the calculations based on your 10 degrees of pitch and that would mean water fluctuations of 6 inches... That's not gonna work. I read the rest of peoples posts and saw suggestions of a fish bowl... I like that! It gives you some play to deal with your 10 degrees. But wait! What's like a fish bowl but not!?!?!

The Fluval Edge! (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=HG15395&idCartRow=23474954&isKit=0&child=HG15397)

That should allow you to leave the water volume a little low and not have an issue of spillage. the following are issues that i can perceive:
The dimensions of the base, i don't know what they are exactly, but i imagine that they would be pretty close to your 8" limit.
The height, it would fit in your 14" but that is it, you might have to leave off the aesthetic top cover.

Advantages of this would be the larger volume and spill saftey along with the number of people already doing it and the aftermarket products available for it, like the Nanotuners LED Light (http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?cPath=73&products_id=746)

just a thought...

hth

[bach2pilot]

Are you going to walk on? I would hump a few 5 gallon water containers onboard before you go on cruise and stash them somewhere for top off. BTW, They put more stuff than bromine in ships water...(plus there's the occassional addition of JP5. Tastes like cr*p but keeps you regular...) I'd collect water off the bow too, for similar reasons.

[atreis]

The thing about distilled water is a myth. It won't hurt to use distilled water, assuming it's too difficult to get seawater directly.

How about a custom made acrylic tank with a top that seals on the sides, and has a small whole directly in the center to allow for air exchange. That would prevent water sloshing out from rolling, but would still allow access to the tank when needed. Assuming you can do water changes regularly, you wouldn't really need any filtration. Put in live rock, a small bioload, and a small powerhead to move the water around when the ship is in calm water.

That Nanotuners light is really nice.

[spieszak]

OK, I can't even begin to imagine it, but I'm playing the game...
http://208.106.151.16/tank.png
They have jelly fish tanks that are cylinders. Cylindrical tank turns the roll problem into a wave maker. It'd have to sit on its side so it could roll, and you could do a small sand bed as long as you had you rocks glued tight to the bottom, and you wouldn't mind rolling the tank every once in a while if you ended up with sand covering things.
You'd have to consider placement of any coral to allow for the rolling. (maybe some mushrooms and a small leather.. the problem would be getting them back out if you ever wanted too) You'd also have to have some type of "bumper" so that rolls couldn't make it "jump" out of the recessed space.
The picture I have in my head is fairly complicated to explain, and I suck at sketchup but I'm trying....
It would have to be completed sealed, except for basically a capped bulkhead on the top of one side to allow for water change, and to run the lines from the header and the airstone. (salt creep wouldn't be too much of a problem I'd think, since in general the idea would be to allow for the rolls rather than fight them, and the natural motion of the ship would allow for fairly steady smaller rolls I would think, so precipitate would be rolled back in) On the opposite side, I "see" a extra cylinder cap that would slip on to the existing cylinder (just like the end caps on a pvc pipe) that would hold a battery power LED stick up light to add "some" lighting to the tank. If you tried, I bet you could find an "actinic" one too, being sold as a night light.
In the bulk head "section", I'd find a way to rig in some capable tubing so that it could be used to siphon for water changes and an airlifter pump could be used to push fresh water back in (or something as simple as a rig with the bulb from a turkey baster). The system would be basically sealed, and if you needed in, you'd have to go in through the bulkhead with a "grabber" type thing.

As you said, its more a of a "dreaming" type thing, but if you have the resources available, something like this might at least get you started. I'm no pro, it's just how I imagined this could work.

REGARDLESS - THANK YOU, FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, FOR YOUR SERVICE, AND MAY GOD KEEP YOU SAFE AND COMFORT YOUR FAMILY IN YOUR ABSENCE.

[Servillius]

REGARDLESS - THANK YOU, FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, FOR YOUR SERVICE, AND MAY GOD KEEP YOU SAFE AND COMFORT YOUR FAMILY IN YOUR ABSENCE.

I'll second that. Also, what class ship are you on?

[Sk8r]

I'd suggest also floating this past the folk in the DIY forum: they might have some suggestions. Immediately I could think of lighting from the side, and capping it with a tall additional gasketed rim of glass/plexi that would accommodate your slosh in the worst seas. Corals wouldn't mind it, buttons and shrooms would tolerate lower light and a couple of the smallest gobies would be fine in a pico, not to mention a scarlet hermit or two, which are entertaining.

[Mad_Reefer]

Just a small tank, 5 gallon might be good, with a tiny powerhead and some live rock with zoas. It might help to have 1/4-1/2" course sand covering the bottom. You could add some macro algae to help with filtering. Light it with a cheap daylight bulb and any desk lamp. If you don't like the daylight look, they make 50/50 bulbs. Use a heater for this size tank.
If I was doing this, I would make a custom cube about 10"x10"x10".

[chimmike]

This is too awesome. Stateroom? I'm guessing a very high ranking officer/commander of the ship. Won't ask you to divulge any details in public here but obviously you're up there. I look forward to see what you come up with !

[Patroklos]

Interesting ideas guys! The cylinder one is really out there but it would work.

I am on an Arliegh Burke class DDG. I appreciate the kind words, you guys to as much for me as I do for you!

So I took some more measurements since I brainstormed last taking into account some of the small shelves and other obstacles that intrude into the space, and the largest possible tank that could fit would have the following dimensions. 24"L x 20"D x 10" H.

It could go deeper but then it would be sticking out of the recessed portion onto the fold down desk top section. Its hard to explain, and I am underway right now so I can't upload a picture or make a sketchup diagram at the moment. I don't want to use up the entire space because I do have to use it to work as well, so what I am thinking at the moment is a 12"L x 18"D x 8"H rectangle. The tank will be split with the forward display portion being 12"D and a back filtration/refugium area being 6" deep. The back area would then be baffled into refugium and return pump/sponge filter area. The whole thing would be eurobraced for the sole purpose of guarding against spill. The baffles splitting the back area from front will be two inches from the top of the tank, with the overflow just being a series of comb cuts to allow simple gravity pour from fromt to back. It will be another simple gravity pour from the refugium to the return pump chamber. The refugium would hold only macro algae. I could use the extra space in the return pump chamber to house backed filter media. This tank would have two simple sliding rails glued onto the bottom fit into corresponding rails double sided taped to the desk recess bottom so I could slide it out over the fold down portion for maintenance/viewing.

This would leave me two and a half inches to to slide a lighting fixture over the top of it all. I guess I would have make a custom rig for this, but I imagine that with an 18" depth I could maybe find a T5 bulb that can fit the bill and rig a 2-3 bulb fixture. The power cords for everything would be feed up into the cabinet above where my desktop tower is kept, so well away from water and a good power source to plug things into.

Wow, that looks a little ambitious when I read it again, but again this is just brainstorming! I honestly think this could work.

As for the water, I asked a junior engineering officer at dinner today to get me a run down of exactly what they put in the potable water. I drink it and think it tastes fine, but we all know tap water can be deceiving that way, and I imagine the ship's water is no different.

Like I said the ship produces plenty of distilled water for its own purposes, so I shouldn't have any problem getting a few gallons a week for water changes if it is true distilled water is fine. I could grab water from over the side but with a 20' freeboard it would not be as easy as you think. Plus I am technically breaking the rules by doing this. Its one think to quietly do something technically wrong but harmless on the down low, it is quite another thing to blatantly advertise it by hauling buckets of sea water through the ship. This is probably why the whole idea will never happen, but I am actually optimistic about it right now. In theory the only difference between the Engineer's fresh water frog tank and my tank would be the extra electronics.

The above would give me a display volume of 3.7 gallons, a total system volume of 5.6 gallons.

I know I am forgetting plenty, fire away!

[Patroklos]

This is too awesome. Stateroom? I'm guessing a very high ranking officer/commander of the ship. Won't ask you to divulge any details in public here but obviously you're up there. I look forward to see what you come up with !

Nah, I'm an O3 so on a destroyer that ties me at the third tier with a couple other department heads. I get the more cushy of the normal staterooms (the CO and XO get their own), but all officers get a stateroom. Mine is a two man with my own desk, so I have a personal space to work with.

I wouldn't have even thought to try this if I hadn't seen the Engineer do it first. And now that I think about it the Captain of my first ship had a fish bowl too. She had it suspended from a rope from the overhead of her stateroom then secured from the side to a bulkhead so it could swing a bit during normal rolls, but heave rolls wouldn't send it flying. It was shaped like a top so it wouldn't spill. It was freshwater with a solitary beta fish. She was the Captain though, she can do what she wants!

[Mad_Reefer]

The tank will be split with the forward display portion being 12"D and a back filtration/refugium area being 6" deep. The back area would then be baffled into refugium and return pump/sponge filter area.

Good idea. Just make sure that the pump section is big enough that you don't have to top off too often. Or you could make a simple reservoir for top off so it's easier to handle.
Is your garbage burned so there is no worry of live stuff getting back into the ocean? You wouldn't want to toss out some macro algae and cause a problem for wherever you happened to be that day.

[aleonn]

All I can say is that this is gonna be an awesome and unique build with lots of cool challenges!

[Patroklos]

We pulp our organic waste and then pump it over the side. I would probably just dry it and save it and then dump it whenever we are pier side on port visits.

[chimmike]

Well thank you for your service! I'm proud to know we have such fine men and women at the proverbial (and literal) helm of the world's finest defense forces.

Nah, I'm an O3 so on a destroyer that ties me at the third tier with a couple other department heads. I get the more cushy of the normal staterooms (the CO and XO get their own), but all officers get a stateroom. Mine is a two man with my own desk, so I have a personal space to work with.

I wouldn't have even thought to try this if I hadn't seen the Engineer do it first. And now that I think about it the Captain of my first ship had a fish bowl too. She had it suspended from a rope from the overhead of her stateroom then secured from the side to a bulkhead so it could swing a bit during normal rolls, but heave rolls wouldn't send it flying. It was shaped like a top so it wouldn't spill. It was freshwater with a solitary beta fish. She was the Captain though, she can do what she wants!