RO/DI install ?'s

[Knox_Legend]

I recently got a new RO/DI system Typhoon III system and after trying to find a decent place to hook it up in my house it seems like my best bet would be in the garage. I don't want to put it under my bathroom sink and there is no room under the kitchen sink due to the garbage disposal in the way.

Now my question for the install is: my only place to hook it up is to tee it off of the hotwater heater "in" line. There is already a valve connected to the in line so could I cut the pipe after the valve and install some kind of other valve and fittings so I can hook up my RO/DI and if so what fitting should I look at getting to make this a smooth install?

Thanks!:beer:

[Orcrone]

Can't help you with that but I'm also thinking of connecting an RO/DI unit in the garage, but have no place to drain the wastewater. Do you have a drain there? How are you dealing with the wastewater?

Thanks

[Knox_Legend]

I don't have a drain in my garage either but will just buy a long enough piece of tubing that I can run it along my garage wall and out into the downspout drain from my roof which just runs out into the yard/street. Plus I may collect the waste water for watering plants and the garden.

[Orcrone]

Thanks for the info. I saw another thread where one poster setup an extra barrel to collect & either use or dispose of the waste water later.

[stingythingy45]

Thanks for the info. I saw another thread where one poster setup an extra barrel to collect & either use or dispose of the waste water later.

I do this,especially in the warmer months.Use the waste water to water the garden and live stock.

[mcgyvr]

Here is what I do.
My Typhoon is in the garage.
I have a typical garden hose spigot (faucet/hose bib or whatever you want to call it) in my garage also. I went to home depot and gathered adapters to go from the hose connection to 1/4" tubing (and to install a pressure gauge). So my input to the RO/DI comes from that. The drain goes out through another 1/4" line into the crawl space where I drain into a large garbage can and that waste water is used to water the plants outside. The RO/DI good line goes into a 20G brute can located in the garage for collection/use in my tank.
No permanent connections at all.

I also had to go into my crawl space and find the water pressure reducing valve to adjust it (turn screw clockwise in my case) to get the desired 50psi supply pressure for better performance. (it was set at like 35psi). The wife also loves the extra pressure for showers now too.

[Knox_Legend]

Thats my question though. I dont have a faucet in my garage if I did it would be as simple as getting a faucet adapter. I'm wondering about the copper fittings and connections needed to hook it up to the water "in" line on my hot water heater which is the cold line and if it will effect my hot water heater?

[kcress]

And.. Here's what I do.

I mount it under the kitchen sink. I include a 3 gallon bladder tank, an automatic cutoff switch, and two faucets. Both faucets are mounted on the sink rim.

One is always kept open. It's the air break required by law and good sense. It's where the waste goes. So whenever the RO is running a small stream issues forth from this faucet.

The other facet is the RO water. It's a typical push lever type.

We drink the RO exclusively. This allows us to avoid drinking chlorine and all the other crap municipalities think they have to put in our water. We cook with it. We rinse anything that we don't want water spots occurring on, like eye glasses. We fill our iron with it so our iron will last forever.

Meanwhile, when we feel like it, we toss a four gallon pail under the waste. This water is also about 10 times cleaner than our tap water and has no chlorine. We use that water to fill our fish pond, do our laundry, and fill our car window washers.

What does this all do besides get us delicious pure water? It exercises our RO system! It keeps the water from getting essentially stagnant. It prevents our membrane from ever drying out and being destroyed. It allows us to see -daily- how it's performing. It allows us to personally gain from the installation instead of just our fish buddies.

Oh yeah, fish! Under the sink we tee off from the top of the bladder tank a line that runs under the house all the way to the aquarium. There, a metal-less water solenoid valve controls the flow. The nice thing about this setup is that since we have a bladder tank you get a hefty stream for 2 or 3 gallons the instant you want it. Also since there is a little restriction down this long line we can still always draw a glass of water back in the kitchen.

Now if you are into DI water for your tank - I've never bothered - you would install the DI cartridges in that line to the aquarium. That way you aren't drinking DI which is not a good idea.

We typically get about 2 years on our filters and 4~5 years on our membrane.

[mcgyvr]

Knox, Your typhoon should have come with a brass saddle valve (if it didn't just run over to home depot or whatever). Assuming your lines to the hot water heater are copper you simply use the saddle valve to tee into the inlet line to the water heater. IF you have PEX (plastic) line..good luck..find a plumber as you will typically need to splice in a short piece of copper line and then use the saddle valve. PEX requires a special crimping tool (about $60). A saddle valve will NOT work with PEX and there is almost no one that sells anything to take a 1/4" line off of PEX. Most plumbers simply splice in the short piece of copper like I said.

[Knox_Legend]

Yeah it came with the saddle valve. I was wanting to put in something a little better looking and something that can be undone or capped off if need be. I figure If i am going to poke a hole in the copper pipe I may as well get the fittings to do it right.

[dmastracchio]

What you need is a solderless tee connector. I've seen them before and I have used them on smaller things. Never a water in line like you are asking about though.

http://eutopasteambath.com/tee_connector.jpg

They use a little rubber or plastic seal inside that when the nut is tighten it creates a seal. Maybe someone who has used them before will chime in about them, but if you do not want to hire a plumber, I would look for something along those lines..

[markgsa]

I use a "Y" splitter off my laundry water hose with on/off valves. I put the waste water down the drain, where the waste of the washer goes. Simple and easy. Good luck.

[widmer]

Sounds like a solid system. I'm in the middle of thinking about putting in a RO unit for aquarium + drinking water.


One is always kept open. It's the air break required by law and good sense. It's where the waste goes. So whenever the RO is running a small stream issues forth from this faucet.


So it's just the waste line? Why is it called an "air break" then?

Also, I'm planning on getting a system from airwaterice and keep bouncing between options. They really strongly push the systems with a "permeate pump", saying it decreases waste water by 80% and pressurizes the 3 gallon tank better. Any opinion?

[kcress]

Sounds like a solid system. I'm in the middle of thinking about putting in a RO unit for aquarium + drinking water.

So it's just the waste line? Why is it called an "air break" then?

You cannot have any line directly tying your water to sewage plumbing. Realllllly bad things can come back and get you. (seriously get you)

This means anything like an RO has to have a disconnect between them. The waste water must go thru an air break. This physically means the water has to pass thru the air on the way to the sewer. It also means no vacuum in the potable system can draw back sewage. When people just use a saddle valve into their sewage line under a sink the air break is usually in the sink mounted faucet. So, you run three lines to your faucet. One is the RO water and the other is the waste water from the membrane delivered high-up in the faucet where it falls past a drilled hole into the third line which runs down to the sewer. I didn't like that or the noise the air-break makes so I went with the second faucet. It performed the air-break function since it's two feet from the sewer(sink bottom).

Also, I'm planning on getting a system from airwaterice and keep bouncing between options. They really strongly push the systems with a "permeate pump", saying it decreases waste water by 80% and pressurizes the 3 gallon tank better. Any opinion?

Permeate pumps do reduce water usage a lot. They also use electricity. No power - no RO. Which might be a sad state if you have some sort of natural disaster. Also I know people have some problems with their pumps. They have a hard life.

I've used Spectrapure and really like them. They have some good app notes on their site too.

[widmer]

That's interesting about the RO waste water thing. I guess my significant other's parents aren't the law abiding citizens that I thought they were.

Airwaterice has a system where the permeate pump somehow uses pressure from the waste line to operate, it's electricity free. Something about that sounds hokey to me... I might just start with a system that doesn't have one, and see how it goes..

[jeff@zina.com]

Now my question for the install is: my only place to hook it up is to tee it off of the hotwater heater "in" line.

That's a cold water line and perfect for the RO/DI source. What you want is a saddle valve, also called a vampire tap. No soldering, pipe cutting, etc. Any of the RO/DI suppliers have them, or hit your local ACE hardware. And they look fine, can be turned off to plug the hole, etc.

Jeff

[kcress]

Something about that sounds hokey to me...

Just because it suspends Conservation of Energy??

[chuckreef]

to the OP, where are the laundry room and are there any baths or kitchens on the opposite side of the inside garage walls?

[widmer]

Just because it suspends Conservation of Energy??

:lol:

It says it is harnessing the pressure of the waste water to pressurize the tank. And it is generating less waste water because of this. I just worry what it means to put backpressure on the waste water. Wouldn't this cause more of the tap to be forced through the membrane, causing it to be worn out more quickly? To think of it in extreme terms, what if you simply closed off the waste water line? How much restriction on that waste water flow is too much?

[150mech]

The best thing to do is call a plumber or have a friend that knows how to "sweat" copper pipes and put a tee in for a 1\2 inck valve that you can reduce down to 1/4 inch. thiis is the safest way to make sure you can shut off that water in the future, for a person who knows what they are doing it will take less than a hour

[Knox_Legend]

I wouldn't have much problem sweating the copper and soldering pipe as I have done a good bit of brazing and welding. I never thought about the laundry room I could put a "Y" connection and a hose fitting to the washing machine line and run it from there. I will look into that option also.

Thanks for all the suggestions !:beer:

[LPS_Blasto]

You can buy this at the bog box hardware store. It screws inline with your cold water and has a 1/4" outlet on the side.

http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq92/LPS_Blasto/IMG_4418.jpg

[Indymann99]

I have mine in the basement.. (however the tank is in the basement as well)
Connected to cold water line via saddle valve (I did put a shut off at the RO unit so I can shut off for maint without having to mess with the saddle valve).
RO waste goes in the basement sump pit.

I have a pressure tank for RO drinking (plumbed to 2x fridges for drinking and ice). When filling my Mix tank (Brute) and my ATO topoff resevour, I close the valve to the pressure tank as it outputs higher TDS.

Also great place for the QT.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/Indymann99/QTTank.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/Indymann99/ROsystem.jpg

[kcress]

:lol:

It says it is harnessing the pressure of the waste water to pressurize the tank. And it is generating less waste water because of this. I just worry what it means to put backpressure on the waste water. Wouldn't this cause more of the tap to be forced through the membrane, causing it to be worn out more quickly? To think of it in extreme terms, what if you simply closed off the waste water line? How much restriction on that waste water flow is too much?

You better have 4x the waste water as RO water or you're on the membrane road-of-tears.

[widmer]

:lol: Are you a double agent and using RC to communicate spy stuff to someone else in the world? I have no idea what that means...

[SA13]

BTW the air gap faucet is a local plumbing code thing. It is not required everywhere.
The Check valve on the membrane housing prevents backup.

[kcress]

!!! If I told you in the clear I'd have to kill everyone!

No. The waste? You have to have 4 times the waste water compared to the RO water. You should measure it sometime. Put a measuring cup in your RO stream and time it for 1 minute. Then put the same cup in the stream and time it for 15 seconds. It should be the same or more.

So if they are running some sort of gimmick scheme that in any way reduces this ratio they're going to prematurely clog the membrane.

[SA13]

Their reasoning behind the permeate pump does make a little sense.
It is only useful if you are using a bladder storage tank. The tank is pressurized to dispense water faster but that pressure also creates back pressure on the membrane when the ASOV opens.

So the more back pressure on the product line equates to more waste water and less product water.

The pump removes this back pressure.

[kcress]

Ah. It's for the RO not the waste. That makes more sense.

[Knox_Legend]

It seems my saddle valve is to small to fit over the hot water heaters pipe.

[150mech]

Oh no never use a saddle valve you will have to replace it sometime in the future, I know for past use!!!!

[Knox_Legend]

Yeah I really am trying to not use the saddle valve. I would like to run another pipe with a ball valve from the "in" line on my hot water heater with a faucet to hook up the RO/DI unit.

[kcress]

Yeah I really am trying to not use the saddle valve. I would like to run another pipe with a ball valve from the "in" line on my hot water heater with a faucet to hook up the RO/DI unit.

Your water heater presumably has a 3/4" NPT male thread sticking out of it. Onto this is screwed one side of a flex hose. You should be able to unscrew this connection. Screw on a reducing TEE. Screw into the top of the TEE another short nipple. Now you have the same thing your water heater had before you started. Screw the flex back onto this new nipple.

On the "reduced" side outlet of the reducing TEE screw in the smallest metal ball valve you can lay hands on. Then connect your RO rig to this ball valve.

Can you do this?

[Knox_Legend]

Looks like I don't have the threaded male end on my heater and the only flex hose is a gas line. Looks like I will be heading to the Depot for some copper plumbing supplies on Monday.

[kcress]

You must not be in Quake Land.

You can certainly replace the pipe heading into your heater with a flex connection.

[TheFishMan65]

widmer,

In reference to your back up question they may add an extra auto shut off valve in the setup. I sent several email back and fourh trying to figure out the best way to plumb the waste line to my toilet. Basically after talking with AWI I will have two shut valves in series on the incoming water. Whatever fills up first RO conatiner or the back of the toilet will shut off the incoming water. Good point on the air break. I will try and implement something although I am not sure it is required. I have heard multipl times that the toilet tank can be used in an emergency for water.

[kcress]

So what??? Every time you want some RO you have to flush the toilet? I don't see a happy result there.. :rolleyes: :lol:.

It's not going to work! Every time you flush the RO will start and the domestic water will fill the tank in about 1 minute and your RO will stop. If you somehow make it so the domestic shuts off, your toilet will take an hour to be re-flushable using only RO waste.

You would need a more complex system.
Store the RO waste.
If stored waste container is full stop RO production.
On a flush if there is RO waste block domestic and fill tank from RO.
Once RO waste is gone allow domestic to fill tank.

Using RO waste to fill your toilet tank is an outstanding use for it. Vastly superior to the blatant waste of running it down the sewer but it's dang difficult.

[TheFishMan65]

I have the advantage of living alone. I intend to shut the main line off. I just got the used system (100 GPD) and it creates 4 gallons of waste water in about 15 minutes and a gallon of RO/DI water. That is good for about 4 flushes. So about 5 minutes between flushes.

The TDS reads zero coming out, but I wonder if this system is operating properly. A bit of a hi jack, but any comments?

[Mike31154]

My RODI set up is in the basement where I hope to complete a fish room at some point for sump, fuge etc. I'd also like to plumb a separate system to my toilets to use the waste water. Currently I store waste water in several large drums for various uses depending on the season. For the waste water to toilet deal, I'd like to get a separate, fairly large pressure tank and tee into the cold water lines with a combination of shut off & check valves to make switching over from normal to waste on the toilet fairly quick & easy. I guess the tricky part will be transferring the waste from the large collection containers to the secondary pressure tank system. I reckon this can be done with a small booster pump & pressure switch combo. You could even recycle some of the other 'grey' water produced from showering/dishwashing this way, although a screen filter may be required & maintained for the dishwater depending on how 'lumpy' that gets.

Here's my set up in the basement, t'd into the washing machine cold line. Maybe I'm living in the past, but I like my copper piping. I have no problem sweating my own connections with copper fittings. I'm blown away at the price of the relatively simple looking pliers used to install some of the newer plastic pipe! I can buy a lot of solder, fittings & propane for the price of one of those.

You can see I managed to snag some larger JG type fittings to nicely adapt a pressure guage and go from the copper down to the 1/4 inch RODI tubing. I also tweaked the PRV in my house to give me between 82 & 86 psi, so the pressure guage at the input comes in handy. I have a second pressure guage installed at the RO membrane so when the differential pressure between the two gets into the mid 20s, I know it's time to start looking at the pre filters.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p2DM1hLO8C4jGH_Mt2uBWZnWJ9yEhf5B0BW7Bw9zVYYhc80_3WN1DLZNLE5cZp0P4KPWpok9kGpyIKXJW9Coreg/RODIConnection.JPG?psid=1

A different angle showing the waste water collection drums
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1phKcxDPeFT34qHGhmlxVPgkCyjFkLbPDOhxpKptsMfNvdEHsbg2pzv9EaAbP8HrkNSQniFDMYGM5C1hbobmFT_A/P1010897a.JPG?psid=1

The beginnings of my fish room. Note the funky colour of the pre filter in the far right of the photo, overdue for a change!
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pSjW9L4T9T5o62vLROz3kVAVGW5rfUjmg9iHqvjifn0ukJNi-VkcQlJiCttbDMQJ1toqxj7Nt34Hsgyx4x32G9w/P1010894a.JPG?psid=1

[kcress]

I have the advantage of living alone. I intend to shut the main line off. I just got the used system (100 GPD) and it creates 4 gallons of waste water in about 15 minutes and a gallon of RO/DI water. That is good for about 4 flushes. So about 5 minutes between flushes.

The TDS reads zero coming out, but I wonder if this system is operating properly. A bit of a hi jack, but any comments?

Still not following your Fish. If your toilet only needs 1 gallon to flush isn't that going to force your RO back off as soon as one gallon of WW is pumped into the toilet tank? That would mean only one quart of RO was made. Sometimes I need 30 gallons of RO in one session! That would equate to 120 flushes.


Mike31154; Nice valve job.

Knox_Legend; We await your solution.

[TheFishMan65]

Well figure 4 flushes a day. That's is a gallon. Which is about equal to my evaporation. So no I only need to handle water changes. I have two thoughts on how to handle this.

1) Place a weight on the float switch in the back of the toiler. All waste water will go down the drain and it will quit when the RO container is full. Disadvantage is a waste of water.
2) Tee the waste line and place a valve on the second line. I can then open it and waster water can flow into a 5 gallon bucket or other container. Disadvantage is you need to remember to shut it off of course I guess you could add a 3rd float switch.

As I said this is a work in progress. The washing machine doesn't work for me since I have a front loader. And my lawn doesn't need water right now. Hmm maybe an ice rink. Seriously I am looking for a good use, but have yet to find a better one. I followed a thread, but it became dormant that had some interesting ideas, but none worked for me.

[Knox_Legend]

After weighing my options and not really wanting to cut into my pipe at this time I have found a larger saddle valve that will work with my 3/4" pipe, so I think I may go that route for the time being. If the saddle valve starts to leak then I will have found my answer and cut the pipe and tee it off with a valve and set it up properly. I am waiting on my TDS meter and tubing to come from BRS and then it's time to install.

I thank you all for all the tips and help. I will let you know how it goes!:beer: