Will this work?

[unkel j]

The main tank is 160g. Im trying to run as much as possible off of one
pump (3,000-4,000gph). I posted a different plan a while back but I want
to do it differently now. Plus, I am getting close to actually setting it up
(tax returns) and want it done right the first time. Thanks.


136844

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If by "work" you mean that upon plugging in the pump you'll have water coming out where you want it, sure it'll definitely work.

Will it be ENOUGH water in the right places? Really hard to tell because we don't know any of the specifics of your system (i.e. how much water does your skimmer need? How much turnover in the main tank do you need from the sump returns?)

[unkel j]

I don't know how much turn over I need. It's a 160g so I am assuming
that 3 or 4 thousand gph should be enough. The sump is around 50g.
The skimmer is a euro reef cs 8-2 but I am moding it to be a recirc so
again I "assume" that it should only have to be fed about 200gph. The
circ pump is around 800. I have not bought the pump yet. I bought the
tank used and it came a couple of small noisy little giant pumps.

[aquamn1999]

you better put check valves on the lines returning to the bottom of the tank or your going to have a flood when you lose power.

[unkel j]

I was thinking about one big check valve at the pump but I forgot
to draw it. I have never set up a tank this big before so I don't
how well this will work. Will I be pulling water through the sump
too fast? Will I never get it dialed in right? I just don't want to run
a million pumps and I've read that people use one pump for multiple
things.

[kcooley]

i would want the fuge drain to be right in front of the tank return pump, not the skimmer.

[unkel j]

The more I look at it, the more I lhink it will be fine. However, I
kind of have to guess on the pump size. I think that if I overkill
it should better except there will be like 4000gph through the
sump.

[unkel j]

i would want the fuge drain to be right in front of the tank return pump, not the skimmer.

I will do that.

[hoffy02]

you could kill one of the pumps outputs if you let the tank drain into your refuge and then into the sump..

[38bill]

I think you will have problems adjusting the return flow because you are trying to use one pump to do too many things. I think it would be better to use at least two (smaller?) separate pumps. One for the display return and the other for the equipment in the sump. I would also run the fuge so it is gravity fed by one of the display drains and then overflows into the sump.

[aquamn1999]

The one check valve at the pump won't work. The water would than take the path thru the skimmer. If you get ride of the returns to the bottom of the tank you should be ok. Just make sure your returns going into the top of the tank have a siphon break.

[unkel j]

I think you will have problems adjusting the return flow because you are trying to use one pump to do too many things. I think it would be better to use at least two (smaller?) separate pumps. One for the display return and the other for the equipment in the sump. I would also run the fuge so it is gravity fed by one of the display drains and then overflows into the sump.

There are two holes in the overflow box, one should be the main drain and the other a dry emergency with the return piped outside of the tank right? It is a pinninsula tank so you wont see the plumbing on the side. If I gravity feed the fuge I would have to tee off of the main drain, is that ok?
There are two holes in the main tank. I am assuming that incorporating them
into the return would be best. Maybe tying EVERYTHING together is a bad idea.
Sorry for any bad spelling.

[unkel j]

The one check valve at the pump won't work. The water would than take the path thru the skimmer. If you get ride of the returns to the bottom of the tank you should be ok. Just make sure your returns going into the top of the tank have a siphon break.

I just realized that. I'm going to use two smaller checks.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I would NEVER put sump returns through the bottom of a tank. Check valves fail - it's just a matter of when. Relying on a check valve to keep 160g of water off the floor of your house is foolish. Put the returns over the top of the tank.

Tying everything together on one pump is fine, it's just a matter of getting a big enough pump and then struggling with balancing it all out (changing the position of any valve will alter flow through all other points in the system).

[unkel j]

If I just run the three return outlets and posably the fuge off of one pump,
what would be a good pump to use?

[zangmann]

How about a pressure rated pump and eductors?
The head pressure from the eductors will lower the GPH in the sump.

+1 on the returns and check valves. If you drill, incorporate a closed loop.

[unkel j]

I would NEVER put sump returns through the bottom of a tank. Check valves fail - it's just a matter of when. Relying on a check valve to keep 160g of water off the floor of your house is foolish. Put the returns over the top of the tank.

Tying everything together on one pump is fine, it's just a matter of getting a big enough pump and then struggling with balancing it all out (changing the position of any valve will alter flow through all other points in the system).

Then I should use the two holes on the bottom as a closed loop. It's just that there will be one intake and one output (less current).

[unkel j]

I'm not drilling, the holes are already there.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Will it alter the flow at all points if the return is wide open?

It doesn't matter what the valves are set at, the change happens when you adjust a valve. For instance, imagine you have 4 outlets with valves and all are at 100% open. You turn one to 50% closed. Flow will go down on that output and up on the other three, even though you didn't touch the other three valves.

[unkel j]

It doesn't matter what the valves are set at, the change happens when you adjust a valve. For instance, imagine you have 4 outlets with valves and all are at 100% open. You turn one to 50% closed. Flow will go down on that output and up on the other three, even though you didn't touch the other three valves.

I was not thinking and I tried to edit that out.


I am overwelmed with this whole project:crazy1:

[zangmann]

I'm not drilling, the holes are already there.

That's fine, you don't HAVE to use a closed loop. You can plug the holes.
Plumbing a closed loop will require the use of another pump, something you want to avoid.

[unkel j]

Also, I was trying to tie the closed loop holes into the return to use less pumps.

[unkel j]

That's fine, you don't HAVE to use a closed loop. You can plug the holes.
Plumbing a closed loop will require the use of another pump, something you want to avoid.

Yes, but then I have to use powerheads.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

This is pretty unavoidable in the hobby - either closed loop or powerheads will be required on almost all reef tanks. It's VERY difficult to get enough flow from a return pump. It's not simply a matter of upsizing the return pump - after a certain point, the turnover through your overflow and sump will have increased to the point where it's unmanageable and/or presents usability problems.

[zangmann]

Not necessarily. Give this a read.
http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/hello_salt_water_enthusiasts.htm

With a strong enough pressure rated pump you should have no problem reaching 3,000-4,000 GPH AND have the GPH in your sump low enough to actually be beneficial to organisms and your skimmer.

If your pump came with a performance curve, look at the flow in "gallons per minute" when the pump is producing 23 feet (same as 10 PSI) and divide this number by 7 - (the ideal flow rate is 7 GPM at 10 PSI) - THIS IS THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF EDUCTORS . We have however experienced very good results with lower pressures.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I have no direct experience but I would imagine that running a single manifold with some eductors and other outlets running equipment will be very hard to "nail." You're going to get a conflict when trying to optimize both functions - on the one hand you want TONS of pressure to get enough flow from the eductors. On the other hand you want lots of flow at low pressure for the stuff in the sump. You're going to end up needing a MASSIVE and expensive to operate pump to meet both needs. At that point you might as well run a small pressure biased pump for the eductors in the display tank, and a small flow-biased pump for the equipment in the sump.

[unkel j]

All of my reading on this site has lead me to believe that the fuge supply should come off of the sump return (then gravity drain back to the sump) and I should not devide nor valve the main drain. However, I am now considering splitting the drain to gravity feed the equipment in order to
avoid pumps. Or would that be just as hard to dial in?

Wouldn't it be better to have more flow than pressure from the main return in order to keep my turnover rate high, then run a pump with an eductor on the closed loop?

[unkel j]

136934

[unkel j]

How would this work (picture)? I am trying to only plumb this tank once.
Has anyone split up a drain like that?