Anyone loosing or lost tissue with biopellets?

[bridun22ajl]

I seem to be getting some stn/rtn on a few acros and the only thing i can think of is the bio pellets. I have been running them for 6 months now. in the beginning it was good but now its the only thing i can attribute the stn to.

my alk is 8-7dkh

I was running gfo with the pellets but i have took it off a week ago.

Im loosing tissue at the base of some and in the middle on others. I dont see any pest if i dip. nor do i see any eggs. I tried basting and nothing came off so im ruling out any pest.

thanks in advance.

[reefyourself]

I would re-check alkalinity and make sure to check other params as well. Can you give us more details of your tank please

[bridun22ajl]

The tank is 90 gal. No nitrate or phos(Hanna). I use itech cone skimmer. 2 vortech mp40. Alk was lower a few weeks ago at like 6-7dkh and I slowly bumped it up to where it is now,8-7 dkh.(salifert)

[bridun22ajl]

Tank has been set up for 4 years and I have never really had any problem keeping acro until now. Will I shock the system if I remove the pellets and just go back to gfo?

[flipit13]

were was your alk before it dropped to 6-7dkh? also what is your cal and mag?

i have noticed that usually issues such as spikes and drops dont show there effects on sps till weeks later. then you have to rack your brain to try and figure out what happen.

just my 2 cents

[nemeth27]

When I was dosing VGV (which has a similar concept of creating more bacteria) I started to have STNing at the bases of my corals. I believe I was dosing too much VGV and almost no nutrients were left in the watter. I stopped dosing right away, fed heavily and did a 20% water change. The STNing stopped and a month later the bases started to grow back. Now everything is growing great again.

I think our tanks can be too clean...meaning not enough phosphates. I had a cyno problem, so I was trying to beat it with VGV and prodibio. I guess in was too much. I haven't gone back to VGV. I'm just using GFO again.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

[bolo7735]

I have a 150g SPS being running about year and few months. I started running NP pellets 5 months ago to help fight Phosphate problems. I never had any Nitrate problems. My Alk is at 9, Ca at 450, and Mag at 1440. No spikes since it was dose by Aquatronica. Monthly 20% water changes. I run a ITech 400 skimmer. In the 2nd to 3rd month using pellets I was having STN on several corals. Not at the base but in the middle. I checked for parasites and found none. I study my corals everyday carefully. Start asking around in my local club and a few people were having the same issue. Everyone conclude that the last change was done was adding the NP pellets. We end up shut the pellet reactor off and a month later the coral tissue has recover and looking just fine. Like the other guy said, the pellet strip the nutrient out the water that can starve the corals. SPS do need some Nitrate too.

[bridun22ajl]

bolo,
did you remove the pellets all at once? what do you do for phos control now?

thanks everyone

[CichlidMan@<3]

Start adding potassium and iodide... there are a few companies out there that make an additive that has em both.

[bridun22ajl]

i add 4 drops of potassium iodide floride 1 time a week. Zeovit brand

[bolo7735]

bolo,
did you remove the pellets all at once? what do you do for phos control now?

thanks everyone

I use RowaPhos and change every two weeks. It has kept the Phosphates at bay. When I did run the pellets it didn't not lower my Phosphates. I had to run RowaPhos along with the pellets. Some of the members on The chemical forum said the bacteria could not consume the Phosphate quick enough so running Phosphate remover would help.

Also, this issue problem I had brought to the attention to the guru in the Chemistry forum a few months back. They said there are too many variable to determine it is pellets which cause the issue. But if this issue is true we will see more people posting problems within the new year or so. This product is so new and not many people has run the pellets in a successful tank over 2-3 years. Time will tell.

[bolo7735]

There are a lot more people who has issues with STN/RTN with pellets. They are unable to come forth since they have ties with distributors to the products. The conspiracy begins..... LOL

[Finland]

I am running bio pellets too along with a gfo reactor, and started to get some stn at the base on a few corals. NO3 and PO4 are at 0. Corals also were a bit faded. I more than tripled my feeding, and corals look much better, and stn stopped and started to heal(encrust) back over the dead spots. I really do think that biopellets strip the water too much and increased feeding is needed.

[sweet ride]

I've also had the same issue with one type of SPS RTN/STN in the middle of the coral. I have two of them in different part of the tank and they were acting the same way. One of the LFS guy dropped by to check it out and the conclution was the system was just to clean the recommendation that was provided was to feed the fish more just to balance out the system. I followed the recommendation accordingly and happy to say that the coral is recovering slowly.

[ir_danno22]

That was a caution told to me by the lfs in regards to using bio pellets. they do such a good job stripping the nutrients from your tank that you have to feed your corals or they will die.

[sfexplicit]

I've had issues with STN on a piece here and there. I usually attribute it to an Alk swing but this last time I know it wasn't that.

[BIG L A]

From my understanding of bio-pellets, it was created to help remove phos & Trates allowing the user to feed more and keep a heavier bio load. I have been using for about 4 months no issues. My trates are undetectable (salifert) but my phos is .02 - .03(hanna meter). I do believe having 0 phos isnt good for your tank, IMO...

[chinx rican]

I think people try to hard. Ive seen people crash their tanks just trying to lower their trates from 1-0. If your tank has been thriving for yrs y change what you have successfully been doing.

[mutateddogbone]

what is everybody whos experiencing STN/RTN running their alk at? if biopellets work like zeolites, they expressly say that running your alk over 7 or 8 will cause this

[bridun22ajl]

my alk is 8-7dkh each day. never higher

[reefyourself]

Why even run biopellets? Just feed less daily... good husbandry... good skimmer and you are on your way to success!

[MammothReefer]

I was running them for around 4 months and have been off now for 2 weeks. I to was having the "random" spotty STN but only on a couple specific millis, and I attributed it to a crab I found, that was picking on a milli one nite when I woke up in the middle of the nite and wandered over to the tank. Always in random spots. Since being off them now I've seen a slight increase in nitrates, and phosphates but nothing alarming. I have also seen an increase in PE from some corals, but my corals always seemed to have fair PE to begin with.

Colour changes, I haven't seen much but my tank seems to be continuing along the same path it was while running the pellets..as colour slowly returns and improvs on most pieces.

I did however reduce my feeding slighty which is some what problematic as I have anthias which require a fair bit of feeding to keep them happy.

Any major stn/or issues I've ever noticed have all been related to alk swings imop. I still do weekly water changes and am trying to keep my alk swings to a minimum as I find my tank is going threw a transition of some sort where the demands are changing.

The only issue I can't put my finger on now is not related to sps and seems continue even with the removal of the pellets (and was the reason why I removed them (btas not doing good).

The only single thing I can attributive to the removal of pellets and increase of gfo (not sure which to attribute what to) is the decrease in Cyano.. what makes me believe it was the removal of the pellet was that despite the decrease in cyano I'm seeing a slight increase in phosphates. (.03-.06)

As far as alk. I keep it 8 per a elos test kit. (although recently it creeped up to 8.5, and I over adjust my acjr so it dropped down to 7.. currently I've got it back at around 7.5-8 and I'm working towards a solid 8)

[barjam]

Warner biopellets nuked (RTN) a huge rose milli in my tank in under a day. None of the other corals seemed to care though (even a blue milli and a Red Planet next to it). The rose milli was directly under the return pump though *shrug*.

I run my alk ~7-8 and I added the full recommended dose all at once (I read later that this is a mistake) running at around (guestimate) 150 gph through a reactor. The other negative reaction is a cyano outbreak where I had none before. The positive I have noticed though was an uptick in coral growth on a few corals and a deeper blue on my nana/valida type corals.

My theory is that when I started up the pellets I wasn't aiming the output directly at the skimmer input and enough material sloughed off that it negative impacted the coral. I had relatively low nitrate (zero on api) to start with and likely higher phosphates (zero on salifert, those tests are worthless though) and it caused a negative reaction.

[Brian Chong]

When I was dosing VGV (which has a similar concept of creating more bacteria) I started to have STNing at the bases of my corals. I believe I was dosing too much VGV and almost no nutrients were left in the watter. I stopped dosing right away, fed heavily and did a 20% water change. The STNing stopped and a month later the bases started to grow back. Now everything is growing great again.

I think our tanks can be too clean...meaning not enough phosphates. I had a cyno problem, so I was trying to beat it with VGV and prodibio. I guess in was too much. I haven't gone back to VGV. I'm just using GFO again.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.
just out of curiosity, have you tried increasing your water change % or frequency or feed less for a reasonable length of time before resorting to vgv? -assuming your calcium was in check.
Another thing i wanna ask is, if phosphate level increase how long does it take to affect coloration?

[t4zalews]

ive been running biopellets for about a month. Recently I've had corals that I've had for a long time start to RTN at the base and in the middle. I may stop running them now that I bought an ozone unit.

[saltyh20]

I started dosing MB7 and Vertex pellets about 4 months ago. First month everything looked great but still had some Phos issues, wanted to bring it down so i added more pellets, still well within the recommended dosage. a months later i have browning and rtn on multiple corals. thought it was bugs because all perams where in check and nothing drastic was done. stable... so im blaming pellets for stripping the nutrients out or something?????? i cant blame myself::lmao: took the pellets off today. let ya know hoe it goes.

[KJAhp098]

I'm also done with the pellets. Colors were great, but started to see some tissue loss. Back to the basics for me with ol' gfo and carbon.

[MammothReefer]

So I did my second round nutrient tests last nite, since removing the pellets on 1/16, and I'm suprised to say I'm not seeing much of a change in my water parameters. Nitrates still seem to be within my avg's, and I've seen a minor increase in phosphates that once again was within my avgs when running pellets. Hopefully this should be getting resolved when I switch out my GFO. I am seeing great PE on all my corals, and 0 patches. However I did also remove 2 hairy crabs one of which I caught destroying some millis.

The downside, and I don't know where to lay this on.. My colours are just not that great, they aren't really getting any worse but they seemed to have halted on there improvement path. Maybe it's due to a small alk swing I had. (I hope).

As unless I see an increase in my nutrients I don't see a need to re-add the pellets at this point in time.

Once I can get my alk rock solid again, and get in a good 3-4 week stability run I'll be able to determine if pellets were the key ingredient to my sps colour improvement or if it was just general stability.

(my log files)

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiJkwwBTLCi7dG12ZFhsTXBGTUFZellSWTZ3QkhiLVE&hl=en

[Bricky]

Wow. These posts really hit home. I recently went from using Bio-Fuel, and the tank was doing fine, to running the Katalyst pellet. Started with a low dosage, but noticed no change in my phosphate. Nitrates have always been 0, but phosphates have always hovered around .05. I've never had 0 PO4 so I thought going to Katalyst would help facilitate this. No change in the PO4 level so I ramped up the level by 100g. This is when things got bad if not worse.

Random STN at the bases and in the middle of my colonies. Parameters are all spot on and I have no parasites (and I do have an eagle I for those things, ask my reef buddies). So, I've pulled the pellets and added two liters of Phosguard. It's been only 5 days since I've done this so after reading the posts above, there is hope.

[dvanacker]

I dont know guys.....I've been running biopellets getting close to a year and the tank is just getting better and better.

Why would some get exellent results and and others get STN/RTN?

[gary faulkner]

I dont know guys.....I've been running biopellets getting close to a year and the tank is just getting better and better.

Why would some get exellent results and and others get STN/RTN?

Do you dose any bacteria like Mb7 or Special Blend?

Thanks

[ottoman]

I dont know guys.....I've been running biopellets getting close to a year and the tank is just getting better and better.

Why would some get exellent results and and others get STN/RTN?


Do you feed your tank a lot?

[gary faulkner]

ottoman

[welcome]

[dvanacker]

Do you dose any bacteria like Mb7 or Special Blend?

Thanks

Nope. I used MB7 for a while but I havent dosed in a few months....dont notice a difference.

Do you feed your tank a lot?I do feed the corals and fish quite a bit. That is the advantage of the biopellets IMO....you can feed more without raising NO3 and P04.

Just as a side note I also use about 1.5 cups of GFO and 2cups of ROX carbon per month as well. I dose lugols...although I dont know if that does anything. Water changes are about 15% every two weeks.

[chrissu]

I know of a reefer having a really bad experience with these bio-pellets. She has 10+ years experience reefleeping, a beautiful 300 gallon reef tank and a 60 gallon specialty reef tank for seahorses. She started the bio-pellet thing about 6 months ago in the 300 and she's regretted it ever since. Several corals have bleached out. She even has a Tyree green toadstool that was once a bright beautiful green but has now turned a ghostly white color. She has all top of the line equipment, apex controller driving it all, and parameters all in check too. The 60 tank never got the bio-pellet treatment and the corals are all thriving.

So, long story short, she removed the bio-pellets just this week and we'll see what difference that change makes in the weeks ahead.

[glennr1978]

I know of a reefer having a really bad experience with these bio-pellets. She has 10+ years experience reefleeping, a beautiful 300 gallon reef tank and a 60 gallon specialty reef tank for seahorses. She started the bio-pellet thing about 6 months ago in the 300 and she's regretted it ever since. Several corals have bleached out. She even has a Tyree green toadstool that was once a bright beautiful green but has now turned a ghostly white color. She has all top of the line equipment, apex controller driving it all, and parameters all in check too. The 60 tank never got the bio-pellet treatment and the corals are all thriving.

So, long story short, she removed the bio-pellets just this week and we'll see what difference that change makes in the weeks ahead.

Tell your friend to feed more. Too many people jump on the BP bandwagon without knowing how to properly use them.

[sfexplicit]

Those of you that have been running the pellets with no problems for 6 or more months---
What are you keeping your alK at?

[MammothReefer]

8dkh

[dvanacker]

7-8dkh

[poolkeeper1]

Keeping it Around 8 KH when possible, But my Salt mixes up at 10KH so every water change bumps it up a little for a few day's. D&D H2Ocean is what i use and like the salt very much other than the Higher KH than i want.
Bill

[tntneon]

Those of you that have been running the pellets with no problems for 6 or more months---
What are you keeping your alK at?
Hi sfexplicit ,

-I'm running pellets for over one year (almost 2) , i've noticed that when alk is kept at the low end of the scale say 7° to 7.7 ° DKH , that i have the best results.
Never lost a SPS during this time
Calcium at 430 or higher doesn't seem to be a problem rather beneficial i think.

greetingzz tntneon :)

[Buganddoug]

I have been using Warner Marine Pellets for just about one year. They have been working great in my tank. I have them tumbling very slow.

[chadfarmer]

can i ask how many bio pellets is everyone using

i put in 40 pellets in my 250 plus system and havent noticed a difference in anything i wonder how many people are actually adding to much at a time

[JasonD]

Alk 7 to 8 range anything in the 9 dkh and corals don't look great.

Jason

[jcolletteiii]

I lost some tissue a few months after starting pellets. Problem was GFO - I never stopped running it. Stripped out too much, had a bit of STN. Took out the GFO, problem solved.

[mellotang]

I had a whole tank crash while using bio pellets. Tanks had been running for 5+ years, full of SPS and LPS. After I started the pelletsat half the recommended dosage and things seemed good. Then after my nitrates and phos started to come down I increased the amount of pellets to recommended dosage and thats when the STN began, after that RTN, finally everything went.

I feel in my tank there was a byproduct, or bacteria, that was released back into tank as the pellets were consumed. I say this because I couldn't get my Ph above 7.9, usually it ran at and now runs again at 8.3+, the water had a greenish tint no matter how much carbon i used or how aggressively I skimmed, corals got lighter in color and showed minimal polyp extension until eventually they expelled their zooxanthellae.

I woud like to experiment with pellets again to really figure out what happened but honestly I think carbon,GFO, refuge, and good old water changes are the way to go.

Liquid carbon dosing seems to be much more stable in my experience although you can have problems with that if you dose to much. I guess its like anything in this hobby, only bad things happen fast!

[110galreef]

Ok, well if your params are in check w/o biopellets....

say nitrates of like < 5 and Phos of .06 or less....... w/ simple WC's, proper feeding, & good skimming....
would SPS colors be better with nitrates at 0 and PO4 at or closer to 0.00?


If not then why run the biopellets.....if only to feed more or have to add extra stuff to water column for colals....just starts to seem like more money to buy biopellets & then more mopney to add more food & supps because we are stripping them??

[MammothReefer]

Ok, well if your params are in check w/o biopellets....

say nitrates of like < 5 and Phos of .06 or less....... w/ simple WC's, proper feeding, & good skimming....
would SPS colors be better with nitrates at 0 and PO4 at or closer to 0.00?


If not then why run the biopellets.....if only to feed more or have to add extra stuff to water column for colals....just starts to seem like more money to buy biopellets & then more mopney to add more food & supps because we are stripping them??

I'm weighing that same choice right now. Some people feel that the addition of the bacteria will act as food source for your sps, and others feel that the ability to have very clean water while feeding heavy will be beneficial to your corals.

I ran pellets from the start w/my tank I had great parameters and if I kept things stable my colours would approve. For the past month now I've gone off biopellets and I've found my parameters are staying the same. Now I just need to wait and see if I get the colours I know my corals are capable of. If not I will go back to the pellets and feed a bit heavier again.

It's a nitrous vs charger debate in my opinion, both can get you where you want to be but it depends on a few other factors mainly your husbandry and bioload as to which is going to be the best way to get there.

Right now for me, w/a 65 gallon tank. I can easily stay ontop of 10gallon weekly water changes, and a way over-sized skimmer which seems to keep my at less then 1ppm nitrates, and less then .05 phosphates hopefully soon with a change of ROWA I'll be able to get that back under .03.


Although I kinda have this idea that i might try down the road when i feel like over complicating things again by adding Ozone into the mix. In the past I had really good results with water quality/clarity w/ozone and then for a while I was dosing vodka w/ozone. I think setting up a second skimmer and hard plumbing your bio-pellet reactor + an ozone reactor into it might really give you the best of both worlds. You'd get the benefits of the pellets, without worrying about cyano, and water clarity issues due being out put into an ozone reactor, and in the event you ever od'd you would less likely have issues due to the higher orp and extra o2 injected into your water via ozone.

[leicaguy]

:rolleye1:Started using them just awful. Corals started to loose tissue browning just nasty
Took the pellets out out use gfo carbon and a deltec skimmer
Keep the pellets just my 2c

[Buganddoug]

All pellets are not the same. I think some are not as good as others. I am more than happy with the Warner Marine on my 180. I know of many people that use WM pellets and they are happy.

[Dave1NC]

I am experiencing the same thing in my 240g. RTN on my 2+ year Idaho grape cap and on 3 on my large acro colonies are all dead. I fragged the acros and moved them to the frag tank, but most of them still died. Once it starts it's almost as though the coral can't recover.

I originally used the Vertrex brand. My ALK was 9 and CAL was 420. PHOS 5 and NITRA 10. The loss started to occur when I started using 2 part to increase ALK/CAL because my levels went down. I also used Kalk with vinegar. I also reduced the amount of pellets. I probably have about 1 cup in the reactor. I tested my ALK and CAL last week and they were ALK 10 and CAL 420. Based on everyone's previous responses it appears the higher ALK may be causing the problem.

Would taking the reactor offline and topping off just using just RO/DI water and discontinuing the 2 part until my ALK drops down to 8 or 9 stop the RTN?

[Bricky]

I really don't think the alk is causing your problem. I was running my tank at 8dKh and still experienced the mass STN. I do agree that once a coral starts that they have a really hard time recovering though. I really think it's the quick drop in nutrient levels, but I'm not sure if it the NO3, PO4 or both in combination that causes the stress.

[gary faulkner]

I am experiencing the same thing in my 240g. RTN on my 2+ year Idaho grape cap and on 3 on my large acro colonies are all dead. I fragged the acros and moved them to the frag tank, but most of them still died. Once it starts it's almost as though the coral can't recover.

I originally used the Vertrex brand. My ALK was 9 and CAL was 420. PHOS 5 and NITRA 10. The loss started to occur when I started using 2 part to increase ALK/CAL because my levels went down. I also used Kalk with vinegar. I also reduced the amount of pellets. I probably have about 1 cup in the reactor. I tested my ALK and CAL last week and they were ALK 10 and CAL 420. Based on everyone's previous responses it appears the higher ALK may be causing the problem.

Would taking the reactor offline and topping off just using just RO/DI water and discontinuing the 2 part until my ALK drops down to 8 or 9 stop the RTN?

I agree. Alk should be 7-8 in a ulns.

HTH

[sfexplicit]

I pulled the plug on the reactor and all STN stopped.

[Dave1NC]

Hey sfexplicit. Was there any additional STN loss after shutting it down or was it pretty much immediately?

[JasonD]

Alk 7 to 8 no problems

[chasekwe]

For those of you who were experiencing issues with tissue necrosis that was corrected by additional feeding...

How much did you feed before and how much do you feed now?

I'm considering going to biopellets primarily for phosphate control but also nitrate to a lesser degree. I already feed my system rather heavily with a medium-large feeding 2x a day. I'm curious if this is enough of a feeding schedule or if I'd have to feed even more?

[MammothReefer]

Just wanted to give an update. 5 weeks now w/out pellets no tissue loose reappearance. Corals still showing great PE, and seeing improvement in colour from some species (more due to time and stablity then removing the pellets imop). On top of that it appears my nitrates/phosphates are staying within except able ranges. (although phosphates is hanging out at .04 so I'm going to replace my rowa to get that to drop down to sub .03)

At this point in time I don't see a reason to re-apply the pellets. For my current load/tank size it appears water changes and my over sized skimmer are doing the trick.

[shred5]

This stuff starts to happen when to many people jump on the banwagon to fast. This same thing happened with gfo not to long after the product hit the market and not many knew enough about it. People were using to much or not slowly ramping up to the stuff.

I think that is the same thing we are seeing now. People are using to much or not ramping up and just starting out with to much. Problem is rules of thumbs rarely work for reefs as in (so much per gallon) because everyones tank is different. I have seen small tank with more bioload than some larger tanks..

[jnc914]

All pellets are not the same. I think some are not as good as others. I am more than happy with the Warner Marine on my 180. I know of many people that use WM pellets and they are happy.

+1 I have been running pellets for almost 4 months. I started with Vertex, and despite noticeable coral growth and color, they were a nightmare. I had explosions of nuisance algae. The pellets were constantly clumping and channeling. I took them offline after 2 months. I started the WM PEllets and saw a noticeable difference. I am using 1000ml on 240 gallon water volume. I do run them with GFO and Kent Reef Carbon, and all nuisance algae is gone. I have very minimal cyano pop up from time to time. I have had zero tissue loss with either pellet and I keep my Alk at 9, Ca- 440, PH 8-8.15. I have no nitrate or PO4. I do however feed my tank generously and have a decent fish load in the tank.

I don't know what WM's secret is with their pellet, but IME, they are an excellent addition to my tank.

[saltyh20]

Been about 2 1/2 weeks since i stopped the pellets. corals are still struggling but seem to be getting better and coloring up. What i think happened to me is that i stripped the tank of its nutients and didn't feed enough to compensate for the lack of nutrients. the corals began to starve and wither away. when pellets where removed it is like starting a new tank. you have to dirty up the water again. it has to cycle again. feed, feed, but watch nitrates and ive cut back on skimming. i would say i was over skimming. so, its best to let the tank chill and save any sps u can by moving them to another tank. I'll keep you guys posted.

[sfexplicit]

Hey sfexplicit. Was there any additional STN loss after shutting it down or was it pretty much immediately?

I haven't had any additional stn. The pieces that were losing tissue are now growing back over the dead spots. I ran the pellets for about 6-8 months. I haven't given up on them. They do work to keep nutrients low. I just think I wen to far and wasn't feeding enough. When I start back up I'm switching from he Vertex pellets to the WM Ecobak.

[MammothReefer]

The one thing I neglected to mention is now that I've been off the pellets for 5 weeks or so.. All signs of cyano have vanished.

[dvanacker]

I wonder how many people that are having problems are using them on tanks that are less than 1yr old?

[Bricky]

I'm at 2.5 years and still had issues.

[dzhuo]

For those who experience STN, does this happen suddenly? Or do the coral show signs of bleaching first and then STN? Also, are all SPS showing STN or just a few of them? If it's just a few of them, what type or species?

If you have a mixed reef, does your LPS or softy affected by this as well?

[sfexplicit]

I wonder how many people that are having problems are using them on tanks that are less than 1yr old?

My tank has been up for over 2 years.

[sfexplicit]

For those who experience STN, does this happen suddenly? Or do the coral show signs of bleaching first and then STN? Also, are all SPS showing STN or just a few of them? If it's just a few of them, what type or species?

If you have a mixed reef, does your LPS or softy affected by this as well?

I had signs of bleaching but NOT necessarily the pie ES that Iost. Some showed NO signs but still STN'd. Not all pieces STN'd and it wasn't any particular type of acro that did STN. Just my experience though.

[ccLansman]

I started with the recommended dosage of Virtex pellets a few months ago and had a total STN/RTN/Bleaching of 99% of my corals. I went round robin trying to figure out what the heck was going on in my tank. I saved a few pieces of SPS but my zoos are continuing to shrink and look bad. I believe the sudden drop in P04 and N seem to be the main culprits in this little lesson. Since the pseudo-crash i have been using half of the pellets that I had before and am feeding more and so far so good. I have good PE on the browned out pieces that survived and I picked up a few new frags yesterday to test the waters so to speak. My parameters are on the money 1.025, 7dKh, 420calc, .07phos, not sure on the nitrates, im running 6x24" t-5s over my 55 with a NAC7 skimmer. I definitely believe the pellets reduce the available nutrients much too quickly when used at the "recommended level," and just like everything else in this hobby, when changed too quickly disastrous results are normally the answer. I think taking in slow and using less vs more is a good rule of thumb. Ill try and post more results as time goes on.

[dzhuo]

I believe the sudden drop in P04 and N seem to be the main culprits in this little lesson.

I guess I never understand where the sudden drop is coming from. With BP, we are essentially culturing bacteria and that doesn't happen over night. To reach a mature bacteria colonies, it takes weeks and sometimes months. It's a long process and during this whole time, the bateria colony continue to grow and absorb excess N&P. Following this logic, you shouldn't see a sudden drop but a gradual decline of N&P.

[Dave1NC]

I started with the recommended dosage of Virtex pellets a few months ago and had a total STN/RTN/Bleaching of 99% of my corals. I went round robin trying to figure out what the heck was going on in my tank. I saved a few pieces of SPS but my zoos are continuing to shrink and look bad. I believe the sudden drop in P04 and N seem to be the main culprits in this little lesson. Since the pseudo-crash i have been using half of the pellets that I had before and am feeding more and so far so good. I have good PE on the browned out pieces that survived and I picked up a few new frags yesterday to test the waters so to speak. My parameters are on the money 1.025, 7dKh, 420calc, .07phos, not sure on the nitrates, im running 6x24" t-5s over my 55 with a NAC7 skimmer. I definitely believe the pellets reduce the available nutrients much too quickly when used at the "recommended level," and just like everything else in this hobby, when changed too quickly disastrous results are normally the answer. I think taking in slow and using less vs more is a good rule of thumb. Ill try and post more results as time goes on.

I had similar issues as you. I didn't lose all my corals, but I lost my favorites of course :furious: mostly SPS and a orange fungia plate coral. I tried to frag what I could of the SPS, but they still didn’t make it. Luckily I had fragged some of them prior to the RTN event and they are still alive in my frag tank. I don't think I will be putting them back in the DT until I see things stabilize. I also wasn’t be able to save my Idaho Grape Purple cap colony. I've had this coral for 2+ years and was largest best coral in the tank (around 20 inches).::sad1:

I think my problems stemmed from having higher ALK which was over 10 and the levels dropping too quickly. I did a water change over the weekend and it has come down to around 9.6. I also reduced the amount of pellets in my reactor. That also has seemed to help.

[ccLansman]

I wonder if my sudden drop was from the pellets + my continued use of carbon and micro-bacter for the first month or so. I was told to continue using micro bacter to "seed" the pellets, not sure how great this advice was or was not. The hardest and most frustrating aspect of this hobby is the constant guess work at what may or may not be causing some said problem and what works/not works. :D

[gary faulkner]

I wonder if my sudden drop was from the pellets + my continued use of carbon and micro-bacter for the first month or so. I was told to continue using micro bacter to "seed" the pellets, not sure how great this advice was or was not. The hardest and most frustrating aspect of this hobby is the constant guess work at what may or may not be causing some said problem and what works/not works. :D

I agree completely. That's why I try to only change one thing at a time. I know that sometimes that's near impossible but limit changes as much as possible.

HTH

[TreyK]

Hate to bring this thread back up, but I just noticed some STN on a couple of acros. It was a gradual lightening of the overall color(which I thought was nice), and then all of the sudden I had a stag bleach over night, and spotty RTN on a tricolor. I pulled the reactor and Im hoping it helps, but we will see. Params are and have been stable, 420 ca 7-8 dkh 1250-1300 mag. 81.8 F 0 nitrate, and 0 phosphate (as far as I can read). I really probably underfeed, which might be the source of my problem, but we will see. Up until this point the pellets have been great.

[Finland]

I have been running bp for about 7 months and started to get stn at the base and the middle. I wanted to blame the pellets until I found I had red bugs. I couldn't see them unless I used a magnifying glass. A couple doses of interceptor and now 2 months later corals are back to looking good. Stn is healing over nicely and still using bioipellets. They have worked good for me. I do feed alot and readings stay good.

[Finland]

[QUOTE=TreyK;18917060]Hate to bring this thread back up, but I just noticed some STN on a couple of acros. It was a gradual lightening of the overall color(which I thought was nice), and then all of the sudden I had a stag bleach over night, and spotty RTN on a tricolor. I pulled the reactor and Im hoping it helps, but we will see. Params are and have been stable, 420 ca 7-8 dkh 1250-1300 mag. 81.8 F 0 nitrate, and 0 phosphate (as far as I can read). I really probably underfeed, which might be the source of my problem, but we will see. Up until this point the pellets have been great.[/QUOTE

With running biopellets, that is how I gauge how much to feed. I watch my corals very closely, and if any start to lighten up I bump the feeding up, then back down a little if they start to get too dark or start getting brown. I fthey lighten too much, sts sets in.

[jimskoi]

For those who r having problems.Which pellets r u using?

[nemokeeper]

I have vertex pellets last few months been battling cyano! Lost my oregon tort, hawkins echinata, and a echinata from greenwich aquaria... i'm gonna take the pellets off line.... i think that is the cause!

[jnc914]

I figured I would update my experience with WM Eco-Bak pellets as I am at almost 8 months of use. I had to recently replenish the pellets as the bacteria in my tank ate away a good portion of what was in my reactor. During the 8 months of use there was obvious growth, great coloration, and no nuisance algae, including cyano. My parameters were stable and the tank looked great. Then......

I ordered my replacement pellets. I took out what was left of the pellets in the reactor and rinsed them and put them back in the reactor with the new pellets. I used the recommended dosage for my water volume (240 gallons), which equals roughly 1100ml. What I did not account for or measure was how much used pellet I had left. Needless to say I "overdosed" the system and immediately started seeing my tank crash. I started to get heavy cyano, nuisance algae on rocks and glass, and my corals started to STN from their bases. Needless to say I went into full panic mode. Did several water changes, took out half or more of the pellets that were in the reactor, and replenished my GFO and GAC. My tank is slowly coming back, however I did lose some smaller colonies.

Still a believer in pellets, still using them, just more wary of how much I am using.

[Moser]

Those of you that have been running the pellets with no problems for 6 or more months---
What are you keeping your alK at?

2.5 years with the original 1st edition NP Biopellets. I did run them in my smaller system and then switched over to my bigger system 1 year ago.
I still have the ones from the original batch that were supposed to be patented!.

dKH is 7.
I run 11L of pellets.

I am pretty confident that all of those posts mentioning stn in their corals were underfeeding compared to what is required for Biopellets.
You need to feed FAR more than in non pellet systems to stop your corals starving.

Bold statement, but true!. Test me!!.

Mo

[CW from the OC]

I have quite a bit fo experience using Zeovit, and carbon dosing is central to that method. All of these STN reports sound just like when you overdose Zeo carbon.

When you use to much Zeo, or use it too fast, the tank gets stripped of nutrients, which causes corals to STN or RTN. As a Zeo tank matures, and the nutrients get lower and lower, you usually have to decrease your carbon dosing to prevent this. And/or you need to start feeding more and using more amino acids to keep your corals from becoming too pale. It is a balancing act that require the aquarist to *observe* his corals, and adjust carbon and feeding accordingly.

Most of the reports are people putting in a lot of pellets, then leaving them in. Or this more recent post where his tank was great for a long time, then added a lot of new pellets, overdosing, and lost corals and nearly crashed the tank.

The common thread is too many pellets, too fast. Or leaving in pellets and not feeding the tank more, or overdosing after a long and successful run.

The bottom line, you cant not just dump a box of these in. You must pay attention to your corals, and add more food or amino acids as needed. Or you need to actually reduce the amounts of pellets you run as your tank becomes cleaner.

PS: some people think vodka or vinegar is better. I may or may not be, but people tend to adjust their doses when using those. Most people using pellets reported just putting a bunch in and hoping for the best. No adjustments = user error.

[chessnutt]

I have quite a bit fo experience using Zeovit, and carbon dosing is central to that method. All of these STN reports sound just like when you overdose Zeo carbon.

When you use to much Zeo, or use it too fast, the tank gets stripped of nutrients, which causes corals to STN or RTN. As a Zeo tank matures, and the nutrients get lower and lower, you usually have to decrease your carbon dosing to prevent this. And/or you need to start feeding more and using more amino acids to keep your corals from becoming too pale. It is a balancing act that require the aquarist to *observe* his corals, and adjust carbon and feeding accordingly.

Most of the reports are people putting in a lot of pellets, then leaving them in. Or this more recent post where his tank was great for a long time, then added a lot of new pellets, overdosing, and lost corals and nearly crashed the tank.

The common thread is too many pellets, too fast. Or leaving in pellets and not feeding the tank more, or overdosing after a long and successful run.

The bottom line, you cant not just dump a box of these in. You must pay attention to your corals, and add more food or amino acids as needed. Or you need to actually reduce the amounts of pellets you run as your tank becomes cleaner.

PS: some people think vodka or vinegar is better. I may or may not be, but people tend to adjust their doses when using those. Most people using pellets reported just putting a bunch in and hoping for the best. No adjustments = user error.

Perfect statement!!!!



---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stanley-Reefer]

I put in the full amount of pellets in both tanks only because those tanks have been vodka dosed for over 2 years. I dosed my full vodka regimen when I started and am decreasing it in 1/4 over 4 wks when the pellets are to come "alive"

I am 2 weeks in and can tell something is going on in my tanks as my skimmer out puts have almost doubled with lots of white/tan froth that is even thicker than usual.

Everything looks happy so far!

Nice white R35 Chessnut!

[chefzif]

I am glad I did not go the bio pellet route! I say good husbandry and water changes and you will be ok! Sorry to seee all of you have nice coral get stn from the bio pellets. Good luck with your tanks.

[jnc914]

Well, it has been 11 days since my last post and I wanted to report that I had to pull the pellets offline. Since the previous report of STN, I can say that the STN has ceased. However there was an explosion of thick turf algae, cyano, and hair algae throughout the tank despite the use of the biopellets and GFO. I opted to removed the pellets in order to clean up the tank.

Now, when I read about others that claim that they pulled the pellets and the tank looked immediately better within a couple days, I am usually very skeptical and/or outright call BS. I am here to say that it has been 2 days and there is already visible improvement. I noticed that the turf and hair algae is dying off and receding, minimal cyano, etc. This evening I did a 45 gallon water change and replenished the GFO and GAC. I am closely watching for increases in PO4 and nitrates.

I may reintroducing a small amount of pellets when I get rid of the turf and hair algae. However, I am also looking into vodka and vinegar dosing as an alternative to pellets.

[r-balljunkie]

ive found the biopellets to be ineffective. i switched back to good ole GFO and all is well in whoville. i gave it a try for 8 months, but have a bit of hair algae, and no noticable improvements. back to gfo, and dont think im looking back.

[shelby_cos]

I just pulled my BRS pellets last night, due to serious stn. I have been a zeovit user for over a year and it was excellent, when I started i had HA bad and the zee got rid of it and my corals grew like mad. I was curious to try the BPs and used less than recommended dosage, and remember i was going from already being ulns. I do feed heavy as I have a lot of fish so I have ruled out the corals starving.
Some other observations Ive noticed is bits of HA coming back, some cyno, glass need often cleaning, lower ph (7.9), and inability of BPs to control po4, whereas zeo completely controls p04 without needing any rowa. I had no problems with zeovit and corals were thriving, I should have stayed with it but wanted something "easier" , after reading the experiences of others on this thread I do not wish to sacrifice more coral to find the fine line of success with these BPs. I know what works and corals thrive and thats where Im headed.
Hope my experience helps!

[Buganddoug]

I never had any problems with Warner Marine bio pellets and I have been running them close to two years. I have used about 2.5L so fare.

[MammothReefer]

I never had issues w/WM pellets either, took them off to see how my tank would change and now I'm thinking of putting them back on. (6 months on, 6 months off)

[schriss]

All the pellet problems are because they work too good and remove too much and as a result Corals are starving.
Solution is recirculating media reactor which controls amount of water going through the reactor separately from tumbling power and/or way more feeding.
People are reluctant to feed more because they fear of increased NO3/PO4 and then they blame pellets.

[wrestle1952]

I tried vertex and two little fishies with the same bad results everyone else is stating. I was afraid I could never keep sps and started collecting hardy soft beginner corals. I took the pellets off and 2 months and several water changes later I have montipora and bidnest beginning to grow. Finally after 18 months of frustration I am now attempting to sell my softie colonies and a large GBTA to make room for the SPS frags I covet so much.