Pseudanthias tuka

[snorvich]

Does anyone keep this beautiful fish successfully? If so, what is the trick? Thanks in advance.

[MCCOOL]

A LFS in my area has had a pair now for ~1.5 years. They are in a tank that's about 120 gallons (weird deminsions) with a number of other fish ( flame wrasse pair, radiant wrasse, CBB, LNB, pair or dragonettes, pair of janns pipefish, chevron tang to name a few). These fish have huge bellies, and eat everything thrown in tank including mysis, live blackworms, pellets, etc.

They are very large (~4-5") and have no problem taking down big food items. The tank itself has no mechanical filtration at all, no sump, no skimmer, it does have a couple of vortech's and a lot of caulerpa growing in it though.

I have no personal experience with them, so obviously I don't know what to attribute their success to, (maybe the fact that there is no sump/skimmer to remove microfauna?), but figured the info might still be useful.

I'll snap a pic next time I'm over that way, but it's about 45 miles away, so who knows when that'll be.

[SDguy]

Steve, the purposeful success stories I've either read about or seen in pereson involve CONSTANT feeding of very specific small foods like eggs, live foods, and some tiny frozen foods. NPS tanks with constant feedeing systems are probably ideal. The rest I call "lucky" success stories - often going through many to find a few that live. I think there are some great foods available nowadays, so it's possible, but unless your willing to put in some major effort, I wouldn't get them. JMHO.

[snorvich]

Steve, the purposeful success stories I've either read about or seen in pereson involve CONSTANT feeding of very specific small foods like eggs, live foods, and some tiny frozen foods. NPS tanks with constant feedeing systems are probably ideal. The rest I call "lucky" success stories - often going through many to find a few that live. I think there are some great foods available nowadays, so it's possible, but unless your willing to put in some major effort, I wouldn't get them. JMHO.

Thanks Peter. Wishful thinking on my part but not to the point I was really considering them. I have become highly interested in Anthias, however, after the success of my group of Resplendents. Is there a thread someplace that is mostly about anthias?

[SDguy]

There's a photo library, but not much info there. Definitely some good species specific threads in this forum (including P. tuka success)... just search by species. Liveaqaria came out with a pretty good series on anthias, IIRC. Might check through their site. The RK articles are OK too.

[MrTuskfish]

I love Anthias, but am 0 for 3 with these guys. I'm done trying, for now.The guy I consider "THE" authority on anthias is keeping several and says his two rules are: frequent feedings, including Cyclops-Eeze ( a real plus for anthias, IMO & IME); absolutely no fish that are even close to aggressive; and some very mild mannered dither fish to help getting them to feed. I guess thats three. He even has a homemade drip line that uses his homemade frozen food that drips into the tank as it thaws.

[MrTuskfish]

Thanks Peter. Wishful thinking on my part but not to the point I was really considering them. I have become highly interested in Anthias, however, after the success of my group of Resplendents. Is there a thread someplace that is mostly about anthias?

Here's something I had bookmarked that has some info on your next fish: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/hcs3/index.php

[snorvich]

Thanks guys. Busy reading.

[AfricaOffroad]

I bought 2 by mistake - without proper research.
One has survived and is doing well, with his 13 other anthias tankmates.
They are difficult feeders. This guy now takes almost any fresh frozen food provided the particles are small. The frequent and heavy feeding I now do to keep these anthias happy has definitely pushed my nitrates up in the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/AfricaOffroad/31a0698c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/AfricaOffroad/a7c7d6d9.jpg

For the record, I also have a large male square spot given to me by the local pet shop.
After a week , its still not feeding. I only pay for it if it survives. The owner realized it was going to die in his holding thanks, hence the freebee.

[suta4242]

Well this guy kept his for around two years until he shut the tank down, but did feed a lot.

I saw his tank and wouldn't consider his particular ones that delicate, and TBH was very surprised how well they did considering it wasn't a quiet tank. Wonder if capture location has something to do with it?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1935427

[SDguy]

Some of the pics I'm seeing in this thread/links look like pascalus?

[MrTuskfish]

Some of the pics I'm seeing in this thread/links look like pascalus?

Me too, I thought it was just me. Color, like common names can be deceiving, but the obvious pointed snout is what I've always looked for in p. tuka.

[Makenna]

Steve, I would treat them like any other hard to feed Anthias. I have yet to find an anthais that will not go for the Roe (I use Rods Reef brand). Once I know they are eating something, I can take the time to wean them onto other foods.

FOr example, the female Pictilis is now eating frozen enriched brine, it is jus teh first step, but with your patience and experience, you have as a good a chance as anyone.

I too may try them if the Pictilis go well for 6+ months.

Bobby

[snorvich]

Steve, I would treat them like any other hard to feed Anthias. I have yet to find an anthais that will not go for the Roe (I use Rods Reef brand). Once I know they are eating something, I can take the time to wean them onto other foods.

FOr example, the female Pictilis is now eating frozen enriched brine, it is jus teh first step, but with your patience and experience, you have as a good a chance as anyone.

I too may try them if the Pictilis go well for 6+ months.

Bobby

Bobby,

I would appreciate progress reports as these are also fish I would LOVE to try. Glad your first step is a success. I do feed capelin fish roe, nutramar ova, cyclopeeze among other foods.

Thanks (!) for chiming in. :love2:

[MrTuskfish]

Bobby,

I would appreciate progress reports as these are also fish I would LOVE to try. Glad your first step is a success. I do feed capelin fish roe, nutramar ova, cyclopeeze among other foods.

Thanks (!) for chiming in. :love2:

Assuming you get a few of these guys; please keep us posted. Every time the "touchy anthias" question comes up; I regret converting my big reef to a FOWLR and only have a 55 reef (and 3 big FOWLRs) right now. The big reef tank was great fun; it just got to the point where it took all my time. I still keep some tougher anthias in two of my FOWLR tanks, but think the tough ones really need a reef. Although I'm really not sure why; maybe because I'm stricter with water conditions in a reef tank. Good luck, I'm guessing that you're past the "thinking about it stage'' and have your mind made up. I've got to be careful: so often when a thread starts " I'm thinking about....", it means they already have them. I'm sure this isn't the case with you, though.

[Matt_Wandell]

I wrote an article about this species which can be found here:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/reefs-magazine/71849-boldly-colored-beauties-tuka-anthias.html

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/mhwandell/20091015-DSC_0106.jpg

I've had 9 fish for close to 4 years now, the only drawback long term is that the females all turn into males like the guy above.

[Jacob D]

I've been wanting to try the Tuka's and/or Evansii which are also difficult to feed. I'm starting to think that the odds of keeping any difficult to feed fish are highly increased for people who are already committed to feeding multiple times (4-5x for me) daily.

Of course there are always the fish that just won't eat, or are too passive to compete for food. In those cases I haven't had much luck, but either of those situations can occur even with less difficult fish.


BTW, I think an anthias thread is a great idea... somebody should start one :thumbsup:

[Jacob D]

Matt, how much aggression is there between the males?

[Matt_Wandell]

Me too, I thought it was just me. Color, like common names can be deceiving, but the obvious pointed snout is what I've always looked for in p. tuka.

The males of both P. tuka and P. pascalus have pronounced pointed snouts. Morphology of both species is nearly identical in males and females. The easiest way to tell them apart is, in females, the yellow stripe along the back and both lobes of the tail in P. tuka that is absent in P. pascalus. In males, P. tuka has much more yellow (rather than white/cream) under the mouth, and the size and shape of the dark red spot on the dorsal fin is entirely different.

P. pascalus is generally more pink overall than the purple of P. tuka, but this can depend a lot on lighting and photo settings and is a very subjective property anyway. You can spot it after seeing several of them side by side though.

[Matt_Wandell]

Matt, how much aggression is there between the males?

Not enough. They dive bomb each other but are generally pansies. If they were better at harassing females they wouldn't have all changed into males!

[Matt_Wandell]

I've been wanting to try the Tuka's and/or Evansii which are also difficult to feed. I'm starting to think that the odds of keeping any difficult to feed fish are highly increased for people who are already committed to feeding multiple times (4-5x for me) daily.

Of course there are always the fish that just won't eat, or are too passive to compete for food. In those cases I haven't had much luck, but either of those situations can occur even with less difficult fish.


BTW, I think an anthias thread is a great idea... somebody should start one :thumbsup:

Hi Jacob,

For people that are hatching live baby brine every day (I know, that is no simple matter), these anthias are pretty straightforward. You just drip it in all day. Add a suitable b'flyfish for Aiptasia control. Feed 2-3x with stuff like cyclops, fish eggs, clam, etc to vary the diet.

These guys don't gulp big pieces of food. There is a video of them here where you can see how they feed--they snap at the water once every 1-2 seconds at stuff that you can't even see. Give them the opportunity and they will do this continuously all day long.
(Excuse the ragged Tubastrea, they were newly confiscated pieces)
http://vimeo.com/channels/glassboxdesign#11979156

[snorvich]

Good luck, I'm guessing that you're past the "thinking about it stage'' and have your mind made up. I've got to be careful: so often when a thread starts " I'm thinking about....", it means they already have them. I'm sure this isn't the case with you, though.

No, "thinking about . . ." for me means researching. And I have a lot more to go before I get to the next stage which is looking for a source. But, at this point, my mind is not made up.

[snorvich]

Hi Jacob,

For people that are hatching live baby brine every day (I know, that is no simple matter), these anthias are pretty straightforward. You just drip it in all day. Add a suitable b'flyfish for Aiptasia control. Feed 2-3x with stuff like cyclops, fish eggs, clam, etc to vary the diet.

These guys don't gulp big pieces of food. There is a video of them here where you can see how they feed--they snap at the water once every 1-2 seconds at stuff that you can't even see. Give them the opportunity and they will do this continuously all day long.
(Excuse the ragged Tubastrea, they were newly confiscated pieces)
http://vimeo.com/channels/glassboxdesign#11979156

Wonderful video and superb fish. What are they eating (that we cannot see), and which anthias are in that video. Also, how does one hatch brine shrimp continuously and drip into the tank?

[snorvich]

Matt, your article is superb. Printing as we type.

[Matt_Wandell]

Wonderful video and superb fish. What are they eating (that we cannot see), and which anthias are in that video. Also, how does one hatch brine shrimp continuously and drip into the tank?

The first anthias you can see in that video is a male P. randalli. There are lots of female P. randalli as well (the overall orange anthias). I'm sure you recognize the tukas. There are also some P. ventralis and P. lori. I've since added some S. latus but I'm not sure if they're in that vid. The tank also has a pair of candy basslets but they are pretty secretive. The stuff you're seeing them eat is baby brine.

Hatching baby brine is simple, but time consuming especially if you do it every day. There are lots of brine shrimp hatcheries you can make with 2 liter bottles. Look up sources for frozen cans of Artemia cysts, and look up how to decapsulate the cysts with bleach and sodium hydroxide.

[Matt_Wandell]

Matt, your article is superb. Printing as we type.

Oh, thanks Steve. Glad you appreciate it. I considered these guys unkeepable and the "holy grail" of anthias for so long I was glad we had so much success with them.

Long term goal is to break down the husbandry requirements for all the fish that have been declared "unkeepable" like these. Ghost pipefish are on my radar next. ;)

[SDguy]

Matt's article is fantastic! Oh, and if the worst thing to happen after success with these is ending up with too many gorgeous males, life could be worse :)

[MrTuskfish]

No, "thinking about . . ." for me means researching. And I have a lot more to go before I get to the next stage which is looking for a source. But, at this point, my mind is not made up.
I didn't think so; I wish everyone (often, including me) would be this patient.

[snorvich]

Hatching baby brine is simple, but time consuming especially if you do it every day. There are lots of brine shrimp hatcheries you can make with 2 liter bottles. Look up sources for frozen cans of Artemia cysts, and look up how to decapsulate the cysts with bleach and sodium hydroxide.

Is feeding decapsulated brine egg hatchout superior to feeding live brine babies from undecapsulated eggs? Will they eat the decapsulated eggs that are not hatched? Can those be digested?

[Makenna]

I do the day long drip of BBS on a regular basis, say every 7-10 days. I set up the hatchery nad they hatch in full within 36 hours. A few drops of Phyto and Selcon, and then 12 hours later I siphon the BBS away from the hatched cysts into a container of tank water. I set this on top of the canopy with a siphon through airline tubing with a small valve on the end (like a ca Rxr tube valve.

2 liters will drip for about 10 hours or so.

I put up a vid of the Pictilis feeding on the original thread, check it out and let me know what you think.

Bobby

[aquaph8]

Link?

[Makenna]

Link?

If you are asking about mine, it is on front page of 'reef fish' atm....

[aquaph8]

Thanks

[Matt_Wandell]

Is feeding decapsulated brine egg hatchout superior to feeding live brine babies from undecapsulated eggs? Will they eat the decapsulated eggs that are not hatched? Can those be digested?

Yes, yes, and yes.

It takes the nauplii a lot of work to break the cyst so they have less energy when they get out. From what I understand the cysts are not digested when eaten, but decapsulated cysts (aka just "eggs") that do not hatch are digested. Anyway, it is easy to separate out the unhatched eggs from live nauplii so I generally do not feed out the unhatched eggs anyway.

In short there is really no reason not to decapsulate the cysts--you get higher hatch rates and higher energy nauplii.

Our recipe to do it involves bleach, sodium hydroxide, and a whole lot of rinsing. I can post that recipe here if you like. You can also decapsulate in batches and then store in a supersaturated brine solution for several weeks to a month. So the decapsulation can be done once a month with hatching done more frequently.

One thing I've never considered doing is keeping the nauplii alive longer by enriching them. We need newly hatched babies every day, so we have to hatch them every day. Whatever surplus we have at the end of the day gets fed out to reef tanks or simply tossed. But, if you hatched out much more than you needed in one day you could certainly keep them alive for long periods with water changes and feeding them with phytoplankton. I don't have any experience doing this (other than accidentally when artemia nauplii contaminate rotifer cultures), nor any idea whether the nutritional value of "teenage" Artemia (I forget the proper term) are suitable for fish long term.

[Jacob D]

Thanks for all of the great info Matt. I need to visit one of these days.

[ryanrid]

i kept tuka for 2 years till i shut the tank down and sold them.

i only fed twice per day which was in AM a mix of spectrum and cyclopese and PM either hikari frozen brone spirulina or mysis and they ate even the largest mysis....eventually.

this may sound easy but wasnt always so, i started with live baby brine then slowly added frozen BB and daphnia with it. Then i started adding brine chopped to this, till they took larger pieces then did the same with mysis.
Then i started adding pellets and cyclopese to the above mixture, i was feeding 3 time a day, 7.30am, 5pm and 9.30 pm, i then reduced this to 7.30AM and PM once they were eating everything, i guess this process took 4-6 weeks.

i could never add any other tukato the herim as they would just kill them, tank mates in a 120gal were

purple tang
powder blue tang
banana wrasse
flame hawk
royal gramma
decora pair
i got a school of all females one started turning male but never got there as you can see the faded one in this top pic, it stayed like that for about a year
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/thepubenator/023-1.jpg
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/thepubenator/015.jpg

[mowhawk]

I always wondered why when I added tukas to my existing shoal, I would find that they had jumped out of the tank :worried:

Possability that ythe new additions were bullied until they jumped!

[pacislandaqua]

I would raise copepods to feed them. Its relatively easy to do, and eventually they will take to other foods.

I've found that in a large group of fish that eat, they will try to eat more often. I use to keep them with bartletts (100+) or dispars and feed very heavy. more often than not they would eat mysis or very small pellets.

[pacislandaqua]

what is the anthia in the background of your article? its pink with orange lines.

beautiful tukas!

[MIKE NY]

..the one with orange line along the back and tail is the female..the male is solid purple. Do a search.. I started a thread on them back in August. It took about a week for them to come out and then a few more days beforethey started to eat. I got them eating NutrMar Ova and gradually they started excepting other foods including pellets ....the male even takes larger foods like PE mysis now.