Pheonix 185 Build Thread [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

orthokardia

01/29/2011, 07:45 AM

As the title implies I will be raising one of Bill's old tanks from the preverbial ashes, dust and cobwebs of Bill's garage. I am really going to need to step up my reefing game on this one for two reasons. 1. It is going in the living room which is Leslie's domain. 2. The tank has certain expectations after living will the poolkeeper (trumpets blow). So....I need your help. I am not a detailed person and this build needs to be very disciplined. Tough love please.

THX in advance
-bart

orthokardia

01/29/2011, 07:58 AM

Plan of attack

1 Structural
1.1 floor loading calculations
1.2 stand design (mechanical)

2 Water flow
2.1 in tank flow decisions
2.2 circulation flow decision - to sump in basement or under stand
2.3 plumbing layout
2.4 spec pumps / powerheads

3 Lighting
3.1 T5 / MH / LED decisions
3.2 lighting layout
3.3 hood desing

4 Filtration + other in sump equip
4.1 skimmer selection
4.2 carbon reactor
4.3 ecoback reactor
4.4 heaters
4.5 RODI

5 Astetics
5.1 aquascaping (rock)
5.2 sand or bare bottom
5.3 viewing angle / coral placement
5.4 stand/canopy design -style / color / ect

6 Electrical
6.1 load calculations
6.2 house wiring - breakers, GFCI, ect
6.3 controler
6.4 stand wiring layout

7 time and money

Pickupman66

01/29/2011, 08:20 AM

http://www.coolavatars.org/wp-content/uploads/a521.gif

Bart, this will be fun to see it happen especially if you can do as we talked in joining it with the other system.

Since you helped me plant my 180 in the house, let me know and I can help you plant this one in yours.

poolkeeper1

01/29/2011, 10:13 AM

Bart, I will call you this eve as there are many things i can help with in this area having already went through the do's and don't of this size tank. Lighting, Flow,Sumps,Power, Rock size and Placement Etc.
Talk to you later
Bill

orthokardia

02/01/2011, 05:47 AM

what would your perfect stand height be for a low tank? there will be no equiptment under the stand so that is not an issue.

Pickupman66

02/01/2011, 08:19 AM

Bart,

as for not having equipment under the tank, i LOVED the 24" high stand on my 75. it was great for sticking your hands in and working or just sitting on the floor and watchign the tank. I had a sump under mine and the skimmer was a PITA, but other than that, i liked the shorty stand.

poolkeeper1

02/01/2011, 08:30 AM

I would have to agree on that as getting to the back center of this size tank can be a challenge, As long as you are not using it for equipment make it low as you want.
Bill

orthokardia

02/02/2011, 08:08 AM

question #2
is there any reason to not use the DSB in my sump (oolite-sp?) as the sandbed in the new tank?

AdrianBryce

02/02/2011, 10:06 AM

get new sand, imo. your DSB is probably nasty.

CloudIX

02/02/2011, 10:15 AM

If it fits you budget, try to keep the tank as green as possible. Things like running your return pump as a 220v (if it can) instead of 110v will make it cheaper to run. Since the TVA has already proved that rates are on the rise, it could pay off in the long run to do that homework now.

poolkeeper1

02/02/2011, 10:19 AM

The reason would be because of Sulfide that is a function of a DSB and once disturbed releases that deadly substance into your system. Even if cleaned i would not take the chance of laying the ground work of a new tank with old bricks, So to speak. Sand can be bought pretty cheap in bulk online or from AC depending on the grade you want.
Mel has a bunch of new sand that is real fine grade from Marco Rock, That he will probably give you but it does blow around some in the tank with a lot of flow. Maybe if you mixed it with some larger grain sand it would be OK?
Bill

GT_Jacket

02/02/2011, 09:08 PM

+1 on not utilizing your existing DBS. I switched to a unique brand that I really like. If you are not set on sugar fine check out Tropic Eden Reef Flakes from Premium Aquatics. The zeovit guys put me onto it. 1 x 30lb bag was plenty for my 90 so 2 would be fine for you. It was super clean during the rinse and tested 0 PO4 after 2 day soak in RO/DI. 2 x MP40's don't move it in my tank. Also, easy to vac from time-to-time.

Brett

Pickupman66

02/02/2011, 09:28 PM

Dont do the sand. get new.... seed it with some from your 300. or ill give you some of mine. I have plenty.

josh_tn

02/02/2011, 09:51 PM

I have several unused bags of the aragamax sugar sized sand left from my build if you decide to go that route.

poolkeeper1

02/04/2011, 07:59 AM

I can donate a 5gal bucket 3/4 full of sugar size sand too.
bill

orthokardia

02/09/2011, 07:02 AM

I am thinking of installing a coast to coast overflow between the corner overflows. This will allow me to lower the water level a bit and skim from the center of the tank, both important when running a wavebox. I am looking for thoughts on
1. optimal depth (front to back)
2. local options for black acrylic
3. other comments like this is a dumb idea

thx,
-bart

mapn4reef

02/09/2011, 07:13 AM

You probably want to talk to Mixer911 (Rick) for the acrylic questions...

orthokardia

02/09/2011, 07:29 AM

poolkeeper1

02/09/2011, 08:12 AM

Wow seeing that brace out almost makes me want the tank back! That will make access a breeze.
Bill

mapn4reef

02/09/2011, 08:23 AM

What's going on with that HVAC return...is that where the tank is giong to be located??

orthokardia

02/09/2011, 05:57 PM

The wife always disliked the HVAC return and the built-in above it for stereo equiptment so......
the builtin has been removed and the wall is being drywalled and painted. the HVAC return will actually be routed through the stand. The filter holder will be the left end access point to under the stand. the right side access point will be a false panel held by magnets. The plywood you see in the first 2 pics is actually the front and will be covered in ceramic tile trimmed w/ red oak to match the fireplace. So no easy from access for Bill and I get to keep the tank:)

orthokardia

02/09/2011, 05:58 PM

I should mention there will be nothing under the stand, but access to the bulkheads just in case. all equipt will be in the basement.

GT_Jacket

02/09/2011, 08:29 PM

there will be nothing under the stand

You saying the teddy bear and lava lamp don't stay???

orthokardia

02/09/2011, 09:20 PM

don't tell the kids about the bear having to go and under no circumstances mention the lava lamp to Rhett

orthokardia

02/12/2011, 08:12 AM

Does anyone know where I can buy black acrylic sheet in the boro or nashville on a saturday?

poolkeeper1

02/12/2011, 09:31 AM

How big a piece do you need? I have an extra overflow at home for my curretn tank. It's about 18" wide and 20" high with Teeth cut in.
Bill

orthokardia

02/12/2011, 11:40 AM

I am thinking of going coast to coast between the overflows so about 36"x 6" or 8". How far up the teeth was the water level when you had the tank set up and at what return flow rate? I expect a 1.5" wave and do not want to overflow.

poolkeeper1

02/13/2011, 02:10 AM

You should be able to see the old water line on the overflows, That being said you will have a very noisy tank with a 1 1/2" wave due to the overflows will start to drain and then run out of water for a short time and they will make a sloshing sound as I had Aquasurf running on that tank and about a 1" wave max is all you can do b4 it starts to get noisy. (Sloshing as the overflows drain and then refill) will be your problem. I don't see how a coast to coast will make any difference as far as the wave goes. JMO
Bill

orthokardia

02/13/2011, 06:46 AM

The center of the tank is the "piviot point" of the standing wave so the waer level in the cener remains constant while the peaks and valleys are on the ends. This holds true for the usual mode structure used by the wavebox. It is possible to use very short timing (feq/2) and get four peaks and two pivots, but i doubt this would work in a 5' tank.

Good tip on the water line. I will check it out.

This is getting exciting

orthokardia

02/20/2011, 05:06 PM

Thank you to Josh, JJ, and Kenny for the help getting the tank onto the stand. Water soon!

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=tankbuild028.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/tankbuild028.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=tankbuild004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/tankbuild004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=tankbuild001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/tankbuild001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

poolkeeper1

02/20/2011, 05:45 PM

That's Awesome looking Bart, Great Idea to do the wood tile combo I like it very much. It is coming along nicely and your doing a great job with making it look totally different than I did!
Bill

orthokardia

02/20/2011, 06:02 PM

Thank you Bill. I am hoping to plumb it Monday and start mixing salt.

NeedBiggerTank

02/20/2011, 08:18 PM

Great shot of the children inside the tank! LOL

Pickupman66

02/20/2011, 08:47 PM

Looks Great BART!!!! if I had known you were working on it today, I would have come help you. Cannot wait to see it with water in it.

orthokardia

02/23/2011, 06:24 AM

Thank you guys.

I acid washed the rock last night.

orthokardia

02/27/2011, 05:47 PM

First water
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=P1160240.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/P1160240.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

new center brace
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=P1160242.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/P1160242.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=P1160241.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/P1160241.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

holding pen. waiting patiently
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=P1160243.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/P1160243.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

josh_tn

02/27/2011, 08:37 PM

holding pen. waiting patiently
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=P1160243.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/P1160243.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Where'd you find that waterproof power strip? :hmm4:

Looking good man, can't wait to see it up and running.

orthokardia

03/07/2011, 06:32 AM

anyone up for a frag gluing party? I have circulation and want to get the rockwork and frag gluing complete before i mount the MHs

tkimmons85

03/07/2011, 10:43 AM

Hey bart where did you get that new center brace stuff

orthokardia

03/07/2011, 05:35 PM

Home depot

orthokardia

03/12/2011, 07:09 AM

left side aquascape in and frags glued. they look poor after the time on the sandbed with the red slime:( , but i like comebacks
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=219.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/219.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=136-2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/136-2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=222.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/222.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

josh_tn

03/12/2011, 11:52 AM

Looking good Bart

orthokardia

03/12/2011, 07:46 PM

lighting question... 6x60" T5 overdriven with icecap 660 or 2x400W MH with radium?

what says the???

NeveSSL

03/12/2011, 08:03 PM

Nice, Bart!

And for lighting, do 200 LEDs with 60 degree optics instead. :D ;)

Brandon

orthokardia

03/12/2011, 08:15 PM

thx brandon. i am hoping to buy a yr of price drop and technology increase by using one of the solutions i already have on hand. then i will go leds at bulb replacement time. i will most likely sell the setup i do not use if that influences the decision.

ZachB

03/12/2011, 08:16 PM

Yea, I'd have to say LED's as well. I really like the look of Bill's tank with the LED's and the corals are looking great. Some I think have even more color. Maybe a few with a bit less but that's expected at first.

Now that LED lighting is affordable and effective I really see no reason not to go that direction on a new build.

NeveSSL

03/12/2011, 08:17 PM

Oh, ok, gotcha. That makes perfect sense.

I would think you might have a hard time getting good coverage with the 2 400x bulbs on this tank without going really high, but then you lose par. I'm not much of a MH guy, though, so someone else may be better suited to answer. :)

Brandon

josh_tn

03/12/2011, 09:11 PM

I think the MH would depend on the reflectors you use. Didn't you mention you had or were getting some lumenbrights? The lumenbright large reflectors would give enough coverage on that tank I believe. The mini's are good for about 2' x 2' spread and the large's work for about 2.5' x 2.5' just from what I've seen online. I have 3 of the mini's on my 6' tank. I do love my radiums but I only have 250W's FWIW.

orthokardia

03/13/2011, 06:17 AM

the guy never shipped the lumenbrights and now will not return calls or emails:(

ZachB

03/13/2011, 06:44 AM

the guy never shipped the lumenbrights and now will not return calls or emails:(

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

If you paid by PayPal or otherwise used a credit card you may have recourse there as well.

orthokardia

03/13/2011, 07:06 AM

Thx Zach..I have already initiated the dispute process with paypal.

Pickupman66

03/13/2011, 07:57 AM

Looks good Buddy! im liking the Arch! as for the lighting, I would go with teh 400's hung a little high off the surface and if you dont get a wide enough spread, supplement it with some of hte t-5's. While my tank isnt as front to back wide as yours, I get great coverage with my lumenarcs!

poolkeeper1

03/13/2011, 09:08 AM

Bart, If you use those reflectors with 2 x 400W m/h and keep them up at least 12" from the water surface you will get good coverage. As I had the large reflectors on that tank with 250W m/h when i first set it up I eventually went with 3 m/h but only 2 reflectors would fit in my canopy so the center had a different one. When it had two it was OK but the center was lacking as much light as the rest of the tank FYI
Bill

orthokardia

03/13/2011, 09:14 AM

Thanks for the inputs. I am going for a spotlight look over two islands with a lower intensity overlap in the middle for the cap garden. I want the sides and back intensity to taper to almost nothing as it approached the glass. I am hoping for more of an infinity effect with the addd benny of less algae growth on the walls. I am thinking 4-6" on the sides and back with little light. that should be like lighting a 48"x24" tank with two fixtures.

I do plan to set the fixtures high off the water for both astetics and easy assess.

poolkeeper1

03/13/2011, 09:28 AM

I doubt you will get that effect with 400W bulbs, They are just too bright for no light to reach the back wall. JMO
Bill

orthokardia

03/13/2011, 09:32 AM

Would shutters on the pendant work?? Leslie will not alow light spillage in the family room.

poolkeeper1

03/13/2011, 02:51 PM

Not sure what you mean? And with 400W Bulbs they will light most of your house from spillage, At least if they are not covered in a canopy.
Bill

zef004

03/14/2011, 05:32 PM

Bart looking good man.

orthokardia

03/14/2011, 06:51 PM

Thx Zef

aquascape almost complete
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=205.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/205.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=203-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/203-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

orthokardia

03/14/2011, 06:55 PM

Two of Brandon's Children....the second has his hair
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=089-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/089-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=086-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/086-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Pickupman66

03/14/2011, 09:13 PM

wow Bart! that looks AWESOME!!!! I cannot wait to come by and see that. by the way, I think i have mine nice and stable now. things are looking up!

NeveSSL

03/14/2011, 09:18 PM

Haha! Wow, Bart. Definitely going to have to get a piece of that purple rimmed cap from ya again one day soon. :)

And I cut my hair, thank you very much. :lol: Glad to see the birdsnest is doing well for ya.

Brandon

poolkeeper1

03/15/2011, 08:21 AM

That looks like a piece of my old Cap, I still have some in my current tank and the birds nest too. But it has been passed around so much its hard to tell. Tanks looking great Bart.
Bill

NeveSSL

03/15/2011, 08:28 AM

I got those from Jack back in the day, Bill. About a year before you popped your head into MTRC. :)

Brandon

Tankdiver83

03/15/2011, 08:31 AM

I hope you have your floor joist perpendicular to the tank. That is going to be alot of weight.

Pickupman66

03/15/2011, 10:50 AM

Bart, remind me to get a chunk of them next time I come visit.

poolkeeper1

03/15/2011, 12:01 PM

I got those from Jack back in the day, Bill. About a year before you popped your head into MTRC. :)

Brandon

I was Reef Keeping long before I posted on RC and when Angela came to my house with several hundred frags to baby sit for a few years I got directly in the loop from Dave, Chris,And CTVol Randy..as that's where she was getting all her frags. FYI
Bill

shanealanbeaty

03/15/2011, 02:41 PM

I'm impressed on the aquascaping!

NeveSSL

03/15/2011, 03:05 PM

I was Reef Keeping long before I posted on RC and when Angela came to my house with several hundred frags to baby sit for a few years I got directly in the loop from Dave, Chris,And CTVol Randy..as that's where she was getting all her frags. FYI
Bill

I know you've been at it for a long time. :) I'm just saying its unlikely that coral was from you, but it definitely could be. To my knowledge, though, it didn't come from Angela.

Brandon

GT_Jacket

03/15/2011, 04:07 PM

I think I have the same purple rim cap that came from pickupman's old tank -

orthokardia

03/15/2011, 05:13 PM

Bill, I thought you predated coral:) Billorus Reef-a-sorous

Pickupman66

03/15/2011, 06:02 PM

Gt. That was a neat one. If is growing good for u, i wany a piece soon. Bart's has a lighter polyp on it.

orthokardia

04/08/2011, 05:17 AM

a few more pics. still struggleing with what to do with the caps.
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=062-2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/062-2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=061-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/061-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

and poor photo skilz. i can not wait till the next meeting
<a href="http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/?action=view&current=056-2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/orthokardia/056-2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

orthokardia

04/08/2011, 05:21 AM

quick update-

also i just received a nextreef SMR-1 XL so i can up my EB. My PO4 is setting at 0.025-0.040 with 0 nitrates on Salifert, but i am still getting film on the glass every 2 days. i also should be getting the second lumenbright so i will have matching pendants.

ocd_mariner

04/08/2011, 09:19 AM

Thats looking really good.

Also, can't believe I missed the brandons-hair-looks-like-a-birdsnest joke. Awesome :)

Pickupman66

04/08/2011, 09:45 AM

Bart, those caps might look good in a 180 tank down the road a ways if you cannot figure them out.... HA!! looks awesome cannot wait to see it in person.

poolkeeper1

04/08/2011, 09:50 AM

Bart, those caps might look good in a 180 tank down the road a ways if you cannot figure them out.... HA!! looks awesome cannot wait to see it in person.

If you were coming to the meeting i could bring you a frag of each of them! Gratis....
Bill:(
PS, Tanks looking great Bart!