Have enough of Tropic Marin Pro Salt

[this is me]

What is up with Tropic Marin? I've using TMP for years(almost 7 years now!) and it was pretty consistent from bucket to bucket(8.5dKH and 450ppm ca). Recently, I bought a bucket and it tested at 7dKH. I informed the store owner and he said bring the bucket in and he'll swap a new one for me. I brought the new bucket home and did a water change last weekend. It tested at 5dKH!! 5!!
I was like okay, I guess I will just buff the ALK up and use up the bucket til I get something new. After about 3 weeks in with the "new formula" from the first bucket and the second, my acros are getting the burn tip. Anyone having this issue with low alk with the new Tropic Marin Pro salt mix?

I'm planning on changing my salt this weekend. Any suggestion? Coralife? Oceanic? ESV?

[Allmost]

well I use the same salt for about the same period of time, never had Issues.

KH of 5 and you got burned tips? must be some other reason as higher KH tends tyo burn SPS tips, not lower. but lower KH can cause RTN and STN !

what are the values for MG++ and CA++ for the bucket that tests 5 DKH,.
any posibility on a change on the way you mixed it ? any precipitation ?

I have switched to KZ RBS for a while now, corals are loving it, but my wallet is hating it lloll

[this is me]

CA was tested at around 440ppm with the bucket of 5dKH.
Mixed it the same way I usually do. RO/DI water with a maxijet for at least 12hours(overnight). Then when I'm ready to do my waterchange, I put a heater to heat up the water but most of the time I don't need to do that since the maxijet can heat up the 5gallon water do about the same temperature as my tank. In the summer time, I would have to actually cool the water first.

[Sebastian J.]

Are you sure your tests are valid? With erratic results from a mass product (Did the buckets come with a batch number or something? And did you contact TMC about it?) and ALK burns after readjusting your alkalinity to fit, I'd suspect that it's the test that might be showing the wrong results. I'd counter-check with a new test kit or at least have the LFS check it to make sure.

[this is me]

I was surprised too when I got the result. I usually have two different ALK kit(one Elos and one Sera) and they bought tested low. I also bought another Elos kit and it tested low also. I tested the tank water right after I got the low KH result from my first bucket and it was at 9dKH which is always the level I keep my alk at.

[fishysteve]

Did you mix up the bucket before you scooped out what you needed? It can stratify during shipment. I don't know if that's the right word for it.

[RokleM]

I'm going to stop using as well. TMP always use to mix in at 8-9 dKh, but my recent buckets have all been 5-7ish. Contacting them, it appears they claim ZERO changes and that's the way it's meant to be, which isn't true becuase I also have used it for many years. Some weird explanation as to it being formulated for calcium reactor based tanks, which of course goes against most of what we all preach, pick a parameter set, use 2 part/reactor/whatever to maintain it, and do your best to have your salt match.

None the less, looking for alternatives now. I have been mixing IO and TMP to balance out, but not sure I want to bother anymore.

[syrinx]

Tropic marin pro reef has always been lower in kh than the other tropic marins- it has always stated that on the lable as it is designed for tanks with calcium reactors.

[this is me]

Tropic marin pro reef has always been lower in kh than the other tropic marins- it has always stated that on the lable as it is designed for tanks with calcium reactors.

While it is true that the Pro is lower in alk than the regular TM, calcium and other parameters are more in line hence the premium price on the Pro.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505
Having an ALK of 8.5KH, 450ppm CA, and 1380ppm MG was the appealing factor for me on the TMP. I didn't have to add anything when mixing my saltwater.

I will probably switch to Coralife....

[thcmusic]

Something is definately different with the newer batches. The last two buckets I have used were both hard as a rock (somehow moisture must be getting in ... or could it be something else)? This was not a problem before ...

[RokleM]

Tropic marin pro reef has always been lower in kh than the other tropic marins- it has always stated that on the lable as it is designed for tanks with calcium reactors.

The point we're making is, they've dropped it even further, low enough that most of us can't even use it anymore without "fixing" it first. I'll try to find the info again, but they claim zero changes, yet many of us that have been using it for years report the same. It use to be 8-9 (via elos and lamotte kits) and now is critically low, even for those crazy "I have to keep off the chart low values for my zeo" ;)

[syrinx]

Ah- my bad- all I can guess is settling of ingredients- if what they say is true. I use it on one tank- have not noticed any changes. I store most of my salt in 40 gallon rubbermaid food grade cans, so its easy to keep mixed.

[RokleM]

Nope, this is definitely a HUGE bad batch or likely a change they don't want to admit. Over the last 3-5 months people have been reporting it, people who have used it for years. I have multiple bad buckets from different distributor shipments over an extended period. I also mix the bucket VERY well before use (I have multiple other buckets I use to mix/stir everything as soon as I open the container). I've used at least 50-100 buckets over the years with the same process and can pretty much guarantee you this is almost assuredly not a user error or settling type of situation.

I'd suggest checking your alk level on a new bucket.

[fancyfish]

used to use tropic marine. I have been using brightwell salt. my parameters are fabulous, my PH stays around 8.3-8.4 calcium 450. not sure on the dkh as I have not tested this. my tank is mostly lps. kind of expensive but worth it in my opinion

[saleen2881]

This really sucks becuse I just bought a bucket of tmp yesterday. What should I do can I return it I bought it online?

[njudson]

Something is definately different with the newer batches. The last two buckets I have used were both hard as a rock (somehow moisture must be getting in ... or could it be something else)? This was not a problem before ...

Recently got a bucket of Bio Actif like this. Broke it up mixed some up and it tested fine - Ca 440 Alk 8.5ish Mag 1260 at 1.026. So I'm using it but something is up with moisture im sure.

[Makenna]

I had the same problem with a bucket of TMPRo...Alk showed a bit over 5DKH. As the OP stated, I buffered it up and used it and I also had issues with the tips of SPS. The 'burned' certainly applied to my issues as well.

Checked with the LFS i bought it from and he reported similiar issues as he uses it in store. He returned all of his stock and I am now using the ESV product. A great salt thus far.

[saleen2881]

well I use the same salt for about the same period of time, never had Issues.

KH of 5 and you got burned tips? must be some other reason as higher KH tends tyo burn SPS tips, not lower. but lower KH can cause RTN and STN !

what are the values for MG++ and CA++ for the bucket that tests 5 DKH,.
any posibility on a change on the way you mixed it ? any precipitation ?

I have switched to KZ RBS for a while now, corals are loving it, but my wallet is hating it lloll

What is RNT and STN?

[Clemente]

RTN = rapid tissue necrosis, STN = slow tissue necrosis

[saleen2881]

What should i do if I just bought a bucket online and it tested at 6 KH what should I do? Can i return it?

[this is me]

You can call where you bought it from and talk with them. Even they agree to take from your return, you're most likely have to pay for shipping and that can cost a lot.
This is the reason I don't buy salt mix from online vender.
I would call them and see what they can do for you. Good luck

[tozzi]

Sad news, tropic pro is my favorite salt. Usually buy 4-5 buckets a time and was lookin to restock this month. A good alternative i have used is d+d but i dont like the residue it has left in the past. I did hear they corrected this and it doesnt happen with newer batches though. Its low alk so its also good for zeo

[Skins]

Something is definately different with the newer batches. The last two buckets I have used were both hard as a rock (somehow moisture must be getting in ... or could it be something else)? This was not a problem before ...

Same here. $100 brick.

[Hans-Werner]

Hello,

I am the product manager of Tropic Marin/Dr. Biener GmbH in Germany.
First problem: The hardenings occured after we have changed to a higher grade and more expensive calcium salt. Problems occured in hot climates and last summer was hot in the United States I think. We try to get rid of the problem and to exchange all hardend salt.

Second Problem: The overall formula has not been changed. As far as I know Nick has never tried to contact us.
PRO-REEF has never had a KH higher than 7° at 35 PSU salinity. If you make up saltwater with a lower salinity it will result in lower KH, of course.
Higher KH in the salt could rapidly result in KH higher than 8° when running a calcium reactor or adding two/three part calcium additives. Since KH higher than 8° can cause serious problems with SPS we still are convinced that 7° KH is a very good KH for a reef salt and we will not change it.
Natural seawater has a KH of only 6.5° at 35 PSU ("normalized alkalinity").

It is difficult to provoke problems by low KH. I am sure you will hardly be able to see any effect of KH as low as 5°. Since I have developed the Balling-Method in 1994 I have some experince with this theme.

Hans-Werner

[RokleM]

Hans-Werner,

Thanks for the response. The issue is however that while you're reporting no change, many of us seasoned reefers HAVE seen a change in the dKH of the buckets having used the products for years. How do you explain the number of us that have seen this issue considering we're all using different test kits, different refractometers, etc? If we were all using salifert for example and happened to all get the same batch of bad test kits at once and all opened a new bucket a the same time... then clearly it could be the kit. I have a stack of TMP buckets that was almost past my waist (and that's after getting rid of many), so I and many of us are not new to the brand or the parameters it has produced in the past vs what we're seeing now. I'm not calling you out as a liar about the salt, but clearly something seems to have changed (intentional or not) or all of us wouldn't be reporting the issue.

As for the general reef parameters, this is the difference I believe in US vs euro reefkeeping. In the US dosing and calcium reactors should have ZERO impact on your current alk/calc/mag levels. These products and devices are built and used to exactly replace the amount of alk/calc/mag used by corals. If your corals use 1 dKH in a 24 hour period, you dose or tune your reactor to replace 1 dKH in a 24 hours period. It's impossible for dosing or reactors to increase levels unless they're set up wrong. As well, unless you're running a zeo tank, the vast majority would day 6-7 dDH is very low and around 5 you should be in panic mode. 8-12 is the norm, with many running right around 8.5-9.5 via forum polls. Again, maybe in general it's different corals being kept, different setups with salt and/or tank equipment, but what you're stating is quite out of the norm or recommended practice here in the US.

[subielover]

I use tmp and keep my alk around 7-7.5, I find my sps achieve their best coloration with close to nsw levels.

[RokleM]

Also note SPS vs other tanks vary a bit. SPS guys are kind of all over the board with a section adamant about keeping higher around 12 dKH, zeo guys and some others (like subielover) like to keep lower as they feel it helps colors more, with what appears to be a majority around 8.5-9.5ish.

[Hans-Werner]

Eric,

to detect if there has been a mistake from our side, we need the batch number which can be found stamped on the underside of the lid. We did get only few emails regarding low alkalinity and most were from customers that did get alarmed by threads in this forum.
I can read some postings that customers have bought PRO-REEF and now, alarmed by this thread, are annoyed about a KH of 7° when in fact we never claimed anything else but being close to natural nevels.
A KH of 7° means in my eyes, the salt is at its optimum value, no need for any change. If you believe something different you have to take a different salt, maybe the classic Tropic Marin Mix.
The problem is, you cannot have everything, a salt with high calcium, high KH and free of synthetic chelators because you already get saturation with calcium carbonate at natural levels. If you elevate calcium and KH over natural levels you will get precipitates if you don´t use synthetic chelators. So you have to make your decision what you want.

IMHO the difference is in the levels of KH in the US in comparision to Europe. While in Europe in the last decade the insight has spread that it is not advantageous to elevate KH above natural levels, at least not in low nutrient systems, in the US elevated KH levels are still widespread and believed to be advantageous.

Hans-Werner

[snorvich]

Well, now I am confused. I was about to change to Tropic Marin Pro salt because I wanted natural sea water composition. But if KH is really below 7 at 1.0264 SG, I would need to adjust it. The rest of the readings are perfect for me.

[RokleM]

A recent bucket of mine would be 24240. Unfortunately I used the last of it a couple weeks ago so I can not go back and test again or send you a sample. If I recall right, it was reading right around 100 ppm via LaMotte or ~5.5 dKH, confirmed by an Elos kit. Using the same test kit manufactures, my buckets use to be about 146-156 ppm or 8.25-8.75 dKH roughly. Before swapping out a test kit, I always ensure the old kit matches the new one, so it's not a variation in either (or both) test kits.

TMP has always been claimed to be a lower dKH, yes. I have never had a 7 bucket, but typically 8.25-8.75 which is fine for me. The problem is now that the buckets are significantly lower than that, many reported in the 5-6 range, a full 2-3 dKH lower than previous buckets.

That's right around 1.025-1.026 via reafractometer, confirmed via calibration fluid and pinpoint salinity probe, mixing container open for oxygen mixing in batches of roughly 55g each.

[pencil3]

I've been having issues as well with recently purchased buckets. I believe I have been using this salt for around two years now and it has always tested very consistently at 8.0-8.5 dKH, 440 ca, and 1350 mag for me. With the new batch I am getting 5.5 dKH, 470 ca, and mag is off the chart at over 1500. Using the same exact salifert test kits I can mix and test between the two batches and get the above results.

Batch number: 12250 tests consistently at 8.0-8.5 dKH, 440 ca, and 1350 mag.

Batch number: 41400 tests at 5.5 dKH, 470 ca, and mag is off the chart at over 1500.

[rogerwilco357]

wow glad i didn't change over ..I was thinking of doing so but will stay with my current salt. I mean the product they make should be consistent I mean they do know who is using this and what for and the people that do use this for the hobby are always testing as we have alot to loose in our tanks and don't risk it so to try to pass something off and think those silly people won't know is funny reefers are some of the most detailed people i have ever met they didn't take that into consideration or the forums we use?

[Hans-Werner]

All ingredients are weighted thoroughly and controlled by a second person.
The problem of settling of some components due to vibrations during transportions has already been mentioned.

I will check the batches next week but I already can tell that the batches 24240 and 12250 are manufactured at the same time, just three days apart. 12250 is the one that is manufactured three days later.

Hans-Werner

[pencil3]

Just some more info, not sure if it helps any but I halso have purchase dates as well:

Batch number: 12250 (8.0-8.5 dKH, 440 ca, and 1350 mag) purchased: 8/10/10

Batch number: 41400 (5.5 dKH, 470 ca, and mag over 1500) purchased: 1/17/11

[RokleM]

I assumed they were in sequence. There is a possibility the number I gave you is not the most recent bucket. I have a couple different types of salts and I use buckets to fully mix everything up when I get new buckets (since i don't make 150-200g at a time and ensure there is no settling). So I could have not put the most recent lid on the most recent bucket.

13517, 12250, 24080, 22209, 21167, 23139, 14148, 13439 are all towards the top of my lid pile :D It wouldn't be anything made too much before 5.1.2010, which is when I got my first low bucket.

(edit 42377 is another)

[Skins]

Hello,

We try to get rid of the problem and to exchange all hardend salt.



How do I go about returning it? My local fish store wouldn't take it back because it had been 30 days before I opened it and noticed it was a brick.

[kduen]

Same here.

[Mental1]

Hans -- I would like to add my story into the mix here. I have used TM for 5 years and have never seen Alk so low. My tank was at 5 -- I test about once a month so it was quite sudden. I believe my problem batch is 35300. I have always trusted TM but you are losing me now. I am confused as to what has happened because you are saying there have not been any changes yet I am seeing a dramatic change on my side.

[this is me]

The overall formula has not been changed. As far as I know Nick has never tried to contact us.
PRO-REEF has never had a KH higher than 7° at 35 PSU salinity. If you make up saltwater with a lower salinity it will result in lower KH, of course.
Higher KH in the salt could rapidly result in KH higher than 8° when running a calcium reactor or adding two/three part calcium additives. Since KH higher than 8° can cause serious problems with SPS we still are convinced that 7° KH is a very good KH for a reef salt and we will not change it.
Natural seawater has a KH of only 6.5° at 35 PSU ("normalized alkalinity").

It is difficult to provoke problems by low KH. I am sure you will hardly be able to see any effect of KH as low as 5°. Since I have developed the Balling-Method in 1994 I have some experince with this theme.

Hans-Werner

Hans,
You are correct. I did not try to contact you. When I talked with my lfs owner, he said not to bother, just bring in the salt and he'll swap it.

I do not agree with your statement of the Pro-Reef has always been having KH of less than 7dKH. I've used this salt for years and it has always8-9dKH. The TM-Pro was stickied in the salt mix parameters having dKH of 8.5.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505
And there's numerous reports of 8.5dKH in TM-pro. This is a pretty well known fact. Please see thread.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287118

I always test my salt when I get a new bucket, test halfway and then test at the bottom. If there was a time that I get less than 7dKH, I would've switched the salt immediately because that's not the level I keep my tank at.
With the past TM-PRo and my calcium reactor, my level has always been in the 8dKH-9dKH range and calcium of 450ppm. This was the appeal of the TM-Pro. I did not have to add anything in my salt mix.

The batch number of my bucket is 23270. This is the new bucket with 5dKH.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138881&stc=1&d=1297615646.jpg

With the two recent buckets I got. The salt looks to be pellet-like. I don't ever recall seeing stuff like this in all the previous bucket. And yes, I did scoop it around so this is not just from the top.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138882&stc=1&d=1297615646.jpg

[The Velvet Sea]

I don't know how salt manufacturers determine the alk of their mix, but a discrepancy of 1.5 dKH can be the caused by different test methods. Take Elos vs. Salifert alk kit differences for example. That doesn't explain the current reports of 5 dKH but it could explain TM reporting 7 dKH when hobbyists had been reporting 8.5. Just a thought.

[cakemanPA]

I received 2 bricks with my last 2 batches. I broke it up best i could and mixed it around. The alk was also lower than what I was used to with TMP. I am switching to B-ionic.

[AndyH5512]

I will put my 2 cents in. I previously used TM Pro for 2+ years in all three of my tanks, but the last couple buckets (in early 2010) were solid bricks. Nothing like having to chisel your salt mix right out of the gate. So, I switched to Reef Crytsals with no issues.

Recently, a large online vendor was offering free shipping and a 10% discount on orders above $150 for Black Friday. I figured I would give TM Pro another try, and placed an order for two buckets. Keep in mind, this was the weekend following Thanksgiving. The salt was on backorder, but only for a few days (at first). Twice afterward it was delayed, until it was a 2+ month backorder and I was in danger of running out of salt.

I called the vendor who said that Tropic Marin was having issues getting them salt. So, I changed my order and got 3 of the 200 gallon boxes of Reef Crystals for less than what 2 buckets of TM Pro would have been. And after reading these additional concerns, I will stay clear of TM Pro.

[jonnybravo22]

for everyone that has thought TM was the best for years and are now switching, what are you switching to?

what is the new best salt in your opinion?

[Hans-Werner]

Eric,

12250 is the last batch of the batch numbers you give. It is produced end of June last year. Pencil3 reports 8 - 8.5° KH from exactly the same batch.

Nick,

the different look comes from the different calcium salt. At the moment I do not know how the calcium salt could affect KH.

Like Velvet Sea states different test kits may show different KHs. We use our Tropic Marin KH/Alkalinity Test to check the saltwater prepared with our salts.

If some of you have problems to change the hardened salt at your lfs, please contac Lou Ekus at office@tropicmarin-usa.com .

Hans-Werner

[Hans-Werner]

Just one more comment to the posting of Sherri: It is absolutely impossible to get a tank from let´s say 8° KH to 5° KH within a month with a salt that has maybe 5° KH except you change the water completely. If you change 4 times 10% in a month your complete water change may be 35% (because you also change water already changed). So you have 65% 8° and 35% 5°. This would result in a KH of 7°. There must be another cause and I suspect there are others that now attribute changes to the PRO-REEF salt when in fact the change is in the test kit or the salinity.
We had several reports about low magnesium in PRO-REEF in Germany when in fact the salinity was low caused by a refractometer boom and the salinity adjusted with the refractometers was low in many cases. This was exclusively in Germany, no reports from UK or US.
This time we have reports only from US, not a single report from Germany.

Hans-Werner

[Mental1]

Thank you Hans -- as we all know there are several potential causes of Alk dropping and I did have a calcium reactor malfunction. But that doesn't explain the low Alk in my mixed water -- it was between 5 and 6.5. I have been dosing baking soda to get my mixed water to where I want it to be. I will calibrate my refractometer again using salt and not pure water, mix some water to 1.026 and post my results. There seems to be a lot of people here noticing a change in the results from the salt. Something has happened!

[Hans-Werner]

Ok, Sherri,

if something is affecting the alkalinity in our PRO-REEF salt we will find it out and readjust the alkalinity. The formula has not been changed.

Hans-Werner

[Mental1]

Hans -- I am actually using BioActif -- not Pro-Reef. Again. I am more than happy to use whatever test you like, heat to whatever temperature you want me to, agitate in an acceptable way, and calibrate my refractometer. I would also like to understand what has happened. I have been a faithful TM user for many years.

[sslak]

I had been using TMP for a long time and I recently purchased a bucket of Reef Crystals because I just didn't want to pay the extra price for TMP.

I was amazed how much faster and easier Reef Crystals dissolved than my most recent batch of TMP. I always was happy with the salt, but it was a pain to mix because there would always be undisolved salt in the bottom of the mixing tub, my MJ900 wasn't enough.

FWIW I think the ALK of my most recent bucket was between 7-8

[Skins]

n/m got my answer

[Shak]

I have been doing research on which salt to switch to as my last bucket of TMP arrived as a brick and I've had to chip it out for the last month or two to do my water changes. I have used TMP faithfully and have been nothing but happy until this last bucket. Guess I'll call Marine Depot tomorrow and see if they will help me out with this bad bucket.

[maik1]

Now what? I just got 2 buckets of TMP with 15120 lot numbers. I was going to use to fill my new 300 gallon tank. Should I use it or get other salt? The 2 buckets are hard not like I am used to from TMP. Testing the Kh seems to be 6.5.

Maik1

[firereef]

Same here. My acros started to rtn

[Mikey122687]

I got a couple friends that used the recent TMP and his tank went down the hill. Told them to swap to RC and its all fine again

[maik1]

300 Gallons of RO/DI water with Tropic Marin ReefPro Salt Mix after 4-5 days of mixing, the TMP is NOT right.
The salinity is at 1.024 but the water looks Murky.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4019&pictureid=27626



Undissolved Tropic Marin Salt Mix residue after 4 days of mixing.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4019&pictureid=27625


I am done with TMP! I am starting over I am draining the tank. :furious:

What Salt mix should I try guys, please help me out and give me some advice.


Maik1

[stepnic2]

I've always used Reef Crystals with no problems.

[this is me]

I've pulled out some of my badly RTNing sps colony and I'm slowing transitioning to Reef Crystal. Bought a 50gal bag to try it out and see how it goes.

I will not look at TMP again. They've lost me. I will use the remaining TMP bucket that I just for melting the ice on my driveway.

[slow_leak]

I have used Tropic Marin for years and have noticed recent hardening but not terribly concerned about it. Hydroscopic salts are shipped through Atlanta during last summers summer will pick up water. You just pull it out drop it on floor and continue.

The above picture shows undissolved calcium carbonate. Just no big deal guys!

My tank has done great this last year and calcium demand continually increases. I intend to try new 2/3 part powdered mix when Bulk Reef Supply runs out.

Here are positives I have seen from switching to TMP few years ago.

Black and tan feather dusters have produced rapidly-desirable species, Make up tank does not get a rim of dirty calcium carbonate like IO salts. Higher quality salts dissolve clear and fast. A little calcium carbonate remains lately.

Switch if you like and drain a 300 gallon tank. But I think it is just not necessary or related.

[Alex T.]

slow leak, I've never heard anything of higher quality salts dissolving faster. In fact, I've always been told and read that it was quite the opposite. Fast dissolving salts have added clarifying agents....just one more component in a salt mix. If this were true, Oceanic would be one of the best salt mixes around.

[slow_leak]

I have read all sorts of things about salts.

check ammonia level of fresh io if you want to be concerned about something or look at scum on all the walls of an io mix tank that has not been cleaned out recently.

A difference was perceived. I am not clear anything was actually wrong.

[allsps40]

I just dont get it TMP is one of the best salts I have used and had great results with it. I only stopped using it because the price was going up and LFS stopped stocking it. I now use H2Ocean.

[Alex T.]

Actually, some of the residue many fear has already been examined by many respectable people in the Chemistry Forum. Randy, for one, leaves it in his mixing container (as do I) and has found that it is nothing more than excess magnesium precipitate.

I use Reef Crystals and get the same film in my mixing container. Never have I measured any ammonia or other detrimental, or for that matter measurable contaminants in my water prior to a water change. I would be skeptical of anything that instantly mixes clear. I guess I'm just curious as to why so many deem an instant mixing salt as something that is more pure. It's already been studied that most salt companies use, or have used water clarifying agents to give hobbyists that perceived value of a higher quality salt.

To each his own. I've used Tropic Marin in the past and even used TMP Reef. The latter was absolutely horrible at helping maintain calcium and alkalinity in an SPS tank. Many other salts are providing extra amounts of calcium and magnesium in their mix, while providing a more balanced alkalinity for those that carbon dose or use the new pellets. Even with these higher amounts and calcium reactors running, the salt was slowly driving all parameters down and I could visibly see less growth and coloration in the months that I used this salt.

For my dollar, neither TM is worth the cash, especially when you have to adjust it to your levels with other expensive and annoying additives. Clear as it may be, it's never going in my tank again.

[Jakef150]

heres info mine.

bought last fall 2010

batch # 21270

440 cal, kh 8

sometime 7kh

jake

[slow_leak]

Those values are correct and what I target for SPS growth. Not all clear how people have trouble maintaining these values unless they are running 12kH.

SPS take 2-3 months to respond positively. Both will work fine is used correctly. I left IO when I got a few dirty residue. The coating is brown and mostly calcium carbonate. But why is it brown?

[Allmost]

I have been using TMPR for years, and it is a great salt.

MG is not 1300 PPM but nor is Natural Salt water in oceans ...

KH is 7, but so is the oceans ...

and so on.

I have now switched to KZ, and that is even a better salt, but way too expensive.

[this is me]

That is not the point. Read the thread again!
The point is TMP is not what it used to be!



I have been using TMPR for years, and it is a great salt.

MG is not 1300 PPM but nor is Natural Salt water in oceans ...

KH is 7, but so is the oceans ...

and so on.

I have now switched to KZ, and that is even a better salt, but way too expensive.

[slow_leak]

So you squarely blame TMP for your RTN because it looks different? Please explain.
A change in the hydroscopic nature of the salt (harder) and slower dissolving is your point?

I have had 6-8 year old colonies RTN and it is frusterating but I used IO then and myself blamed the older and useless term - old tank syndrome-.

[Kahuna]

I have four buckets of the rock-hard TMRP salt and one bucket that was not rock hard. I've been using it since my first bucket of RSCP ran out and haven't been able to keep the SPS's in my tank alive. They turn brown and mushy at the tips and then just fade away. I've had to pre-dose alk on every water change. I'm a noob and thought this was normal. Montis die in my tank ASAP. My params are stable and my lighting is excellent. Thoughts?

Kev

[slow_leak]

RSCP?

How long have you had SPS overall?

[Kahuna]

Red Sea Coral Pro - old formulation

I've had the majority of my SPS for about 6 months. The first SPS I got was a green Bali slimer that was doing great but has declined since using the TMRP salt.

[Kahuna]

Eric,

to detect if there has been a mistake from our side, we need the batch number which can be found stamped on the underside of the lid. We did get only few emails regarding low alkalinity and most were from customers that did get alarmed by threads in this forum.
I can read some postings that customers have bought PRO-REEF and now, alarmed by this thread, are annoyed about a KH of 7° when in fact we never claimed anything else but being close to natural nevels.
A KH of 7° means in my eyes, the salt is at its optimum value, no need for any change. If you believe something different you have to take a different salt, maybe the classic Tropic Marin Mix.
The problem is, you cannot have everything, a salt with high calcium, high KH and free of synthetic chelators because you already get saturation with calcium carbonate at natural levels. If you elevate calcium and KH over natural levels you will get precipitates if you don´t use synthetic chelators. So you have to make your decision what you want.

IMHO the difference is in the levels of KH in the US in comparision to Europe. While in Europe in the last decade the insight has spread that it is not advantageous to elevate KH above natural levels, at least not in low nutrient systems, in the US elevated KH levels are still widespread and believed to be advantageous.

Hans-Werner

Mr. Hans-Werner:

I am a relative newbie to reef tanks. However, I switched to your product after starting my tank with Red Sea Coral Pro. To me, this was a good salt, and when my LFS ran out, they sold me your product as a substitute. It is, as far as I know, a good product as well. Since switching over last fall, I've had huge issues with my SPS corals and frags that I had in the tank. Monti's grey out and die, and acros turn brown and mushy at the tip and then die as well. LPS corals have had polyp bailout. You can see my most recent post here at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1998773.

I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's product, and can PM you the batch #'s from all 5 buckets, 3 of which are unopened in my garage and one in my utility room which has about 30 gallons worth of salt removed from it. I didn't have this problem before, and the acros seemed to be hit or miss with the first bucket, which I chalked up to wandering tank parameters and beginner's stupidity. However, the LPS polyp bailout on corals that were extremely healthy started immediately after using salt from the first of the four caked buckets. I stumbled across this thread after someone suggessted that I should check for feedback on the salt from other users.

I'm not asking for anything other than some help. If I have a bad batch, replacement would be appreciatated. I've checked for and found nothing wrong with any other parameters other than checking for copper, which I'll do tomorrow. After that, I'm not sure where to go. Was considering using balling lite to help with the issue.

At this point, any help is appreciated, as I'm banging my head against the wall.

Regards.

Kevin

[RokleM]

Unfortunately it looks like Hans-Werner hasn't been back online for a while. I would assume it's still under investigation, but IMO since there are so many reported issues... it might be time to look at another salt for now. I think many of us have been trying others (IO, etc). Personally I still have some TMP left, so I'm mixing it in light batches with IO (which has a high alk that offsets the really low alk TMP).

[slow_leak]

I have used it threw a few batches that showed some hardening and latest bucket was granular as before. I get it from same source always. I have had great growth even through the hard 3-4 buckets.

It appears to be granular from a new shipment to Atlanta perhaps. I am a little suspicious of claims but it never hurts to be extra careful. I hate to say it but a tank less than 1 year old will have problems with SPS in many cases. I have had issues with SPS and it can be frustrating while tank matures.

Perhaps a poll is needed without leading reader one way or another.

I generally would advise against switching salt mixes in general as they are described with very basic parameters. I was reluctant to switch to TM about 7 years ago and really do not suggest switching salts every few buckets. Stability may be much more important than product selection, atleast with reputable salt vendors.

If your having trouble I would recommend IO and just sticking with it for long period. It often goes on sale.

[flyingphish]

It's not Mr. Hans-Werner. It's Mr. Balling. As in the Balling Method.

I havent checked my salt parameters in months. the last batch of tmp i bought late last year, 3 buckets, free shipping deal. bricks, all of them. think the dkh is low? cant wait to check tomorrow. if it is im ordering a couple boxes of KZ or tunze.

[this is me]

Went in my lfs that I bought the salt from to get a red carpet anemone. Talked with the manager and he said he has switch his entire store tank salt from TMP to DD. The reason he stated was the DD salt is same price and better salt.

[slow_leak]

What is better about it?

[RokleM]

Wish the alk was just slightly lower, but the DD numbers look good to me:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

[this is me]

What is better about it?

He said ALK mixes about 9.5dKH, ca at 450ppm, and mg is 1350ppm. To me, that's better than the current crap I was getting with TMP.

[Genj]

Mr. Hans-Werner:

I am a relative newbie to reef tanks. However, I switched to your product after starting my tank with Red Sea Coral Pro. To me, this was a good salt, and when my LFS ran out, they sold me your product as a substitute. It is, as far as I know, a good product as well. Since switching over last fall, I've had huge issues with my SPS corals and frags that I had in the tank. Monti's grey out and die, and acros turn brown and mushy at the tip and then die as well. LPS corals have had polyp bailout. You can see my most recent post here at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1998773.

I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's product, and can PM you the batch #'s from all 5 buckets, 3 of which are unopened in my garage and one in my utility room which has about 30 gallons worth of salt removed from it. I didn't have this problem before, and the acros seemed to be hit or miss with the first bucket, which I chalked up to wandering tank parameters and beginner's stupidity. However, the LPS polyp bailout on corals that were extremely healthy started immediately after using salt from the first of the four caked buckets. I stumbled across this thread after someone suggessted that I should check for feedback on the salt from other users.

I'm not asking for anything other than some help. If I have a bad batch, replacement would be appreciatated. I've checked for and found nothing wrong with any other parameters other than checking for copper, which I'll do tomorrow. After that, I'm not sure where to go. Was considering using balling lite to help with the issue.

At this point, any help is appreciated, as I'm banging my head against the wall.

Regards.

Kevin

My god, this is EXACTLY the problem I have been having. Down to the very last letter of the very last word. LPS, polyp bailout and detachment, monti caps dying immediately, SPS having RTN and STN events.

All, while wondering why this salt I have is so hard where I have to slam it down on the floor to break it up.

[All Delight]

CA was tested at around 440ppm with the bucket of 5dKH.


If you look under the lid, there's a # on there. TM says this is the bacth #. I got a bucket with the exact same ca and alk as yours. I'd like to know if we have the same batch #.

[this is me]

Post# 39

[Gotcha!]

I have been using TM and TMP for 2 - 3 years. Until this last summer I have not had an issue with TMP and dkh was always around 7.5 - 8.0 range. The last 2 buckets I purchased were bricks and on the last bucket - lot #21519 I decided to do some testing since a few of my corals were not doing well and all my parameters seemed fine and I could not put a reasoning into the decline and I noticed that in this lot, #21519 I went from 7.5 - 8.0 (previous bucket) down to 5.5 in the lot #21519 bucket. Since i do not do large water changes (I.E. 10 gallons every 2 weeks in my 90 gallon) I do not think that the salt was my issue yet its the only thing that had me hitting my head since I was having to chissel it out of the bucket. Anyway, I just got a bucket of Bio actif and wanted to test this salt out so I will now test this salt to see if its hitting the spec numbers.

I am no pro when it comes to salts. I have used this product for some time with great results until the last two buckets which were bricks and required a hammer to break it up LOL. Now you all have me testing my salts more then I expected to have too. Its just ironic I ran into this thread while serfing. I guess and will follow it to see what info Hans may bring back to the thread.

[hairyman1]

That there may be a problem with one or two batch numbers of Tropic Marin pro. OK now what? We all switch to a different salt and hope that they never have a bad batch or two or do we just want the company rep to be more apologetic and less condescending? Are we sure that our coral health issues were the result of low alkalinity readings and that nothing else could have caused or contributed to it? Now I personally don't like using solid salt buckets or boxes as that can mean it's been sitting in a humid environment or not sufficiently dry when packaged or maybe a slightly warped/open lid, But I would use and adjust it as needed and make note of everything tested including what test kits I used and how old the regents were as old regents can give different results then new ones etc... Taking a water sample to your favorite reef shop for testing couldn't hurt as well as using the salt makers test kit. Reef keeping is a science, but not an exact science so some redundancy with regard to testing should be the norm.

[RokleM]

So what have we learned?

That TM hasn't and won't acknowledge the low alk situation? :D

[tkeracer619]

Drs Foster and Smith has 200g IO boxes for $43. Randy has already shown that buffering IO is cheaper then the salt itself by volume so as you increase mag and calcium (if you need to) actually makes the salt even cheaper per gallon.

[Hirobo]

I am also having issues with Pro I switched from Brightwell salt after reading all the pros about this salt and from recommendations from fellow reefers. my tests on 24 hour mix is dkh at 6 mag at 1120 and calc at 360 at 1.025 I have never had to add as much calcium to my tank with the brightwell salt like i do with this salt. I might as well buy stock in their bio calcium. after my last water change (Sunday) my two show size Frogspawns are dying. My friend is having the same issue with the three buckets of pro salt he just purchased also so evidently there is an issue somewhere! I am chucking this bucket of salt out and going back to Brightwell

[slow_leak]

I have used TMP through to brick like containers and back to soft material again. Can not say I've had an issue as all sps have grown well to extremely depending on who you ask. I do run turf scrubber that is not commonly used on sps tank.

I have really no clue how kH 5 would screw up a system with 10% water changes, and why buffering with soda ash is a cost to worry about.

Stilll I would only use TMP and IO and may switch back to IO if reports continue. These reports would be more meaningful if length in hobby and how long current tank has been running is reported. I dismissed some of the earlier postings for this reason.

[justchad]

I have been an avid user of TMP for a couple of years now and I havent bought anything else.. I swore that this salt was by far the best UNTIL..... I picked up 3 buckets on my last trip to the LFS... I have to dose for everything now.. alk 5, Mag 1170, and my calcium hasnt been in the 400's at all from these buckets... I am done!

[this is me]

.....and why buffering with soda ash is a cost to worry about.
If anyone is willing to shell out the cash for the premium price of TMP, I don't think they care about the cost. It's the extra step and the misleading advertising! It's not about the money here, it's the principle that ****es me off.

[tozzi]

If anyone is willing to shell out the cash for the premium price of TMP, I don't think they care about the cost. It's the extra step and the misleading advertising! It's not about the money here, it's the principle that ****es me off.

I agree. If u have to add stuff to the mix u might as well just use Instant ocean and add to that. It will cost u half as much. When i buy tmp for 80$ i want to mix it and use it, not add stuff to get it right.


Does anyone know if they fixed this and the buckets out now r ok? Would really s%&k if they changed their mix up and this is what the new one is going to b.

Tmp was my old reliable. D+D numbers r good but the stuff just mixes filthy. Brightwell Alk is too high for me. At this point im thinking of using IO or RC and just adding stuff to the mix to get it to where i want. Anyone have a salt that mixes up super clean and the new water is crystal clear when youe done?

[BuckeyeTodd]

I agree. If u have to add stuff to the mix u might as well just use Instant ocean and add to that. It will cost u half as much. When i buy tmp for 80$ i want to mix it and use it, not add stuff to get it right.


Does anyone know if they fixed this and the buckets out now r ok? Would really s%&k if they changed their mix up and this is what the new one is going to b.

Tmp was my old reliable. D+D numbers r good but the stuff just mixes filthy. Brightwell Alk is too high for me. At this point im thinking of using IO or RC and just adding stuff to the mix to get it to where i want. Anyone have a salt that mixes up super clean and the new water is crystal clear when youe done?

ahhh yes, the holy grail of salt. It should mix cleanly, have Ideal numbers, and be crystal clear, and the cheaper the better.

Seriously though, I just am using IO and adding some mag and a little calcium. Can't beat the price, and their reliability speaks for itself. Would be great to not have to mix it for 12 hours, but what can you do

[RokleM]

Recent buckets have the same issue, at least the I got did.

I threw away what I had left and won't return to the brand anytime soon. Unfortunately it looks like they started to look into the issue, then just dropped the ball. Even worse than not even attempting IMO.

I'm back to the old trust IO/Oceanic 50/50 mix from back in the day. Petsolutions had ~$45 buckets of oceanic. 460 calc, 9.5 alk, 1400 mag. Works for me.

[tozzi]

Just bought some IO today and a huge jug of mag to dose , LOL was still cheaper than a bucket of tmp

[RokleM]

That's why I'm mixing in some oceanic, since it's a little higher on calc/mag, plus helps drop the high alk level of IO down.

[tozzi]

Yea i know oceanic is real high in calcium, so it would b good to mix in. Dont think anyone sells it around here though

[beastrx]

I would like to know how many of you have tried regular TM salt. I bought a bucket of regular TM about a month or two ago and I love it. It was not hard and mixes quickly and clear. I got readings of 13 dKh 400 cal and 1300 mg. I run my tank at 8 dkh and just do not dose the morning after my water change. These 10% water changes with such a difference in alk does not affect my tanks alk in the least bit. So maybe I just got a good batch or regular TM is still good?

[RokleM]

I personally haven't tried. It's still expensive and quite frankly the calc/mag is too low. IO does it better cheaper. Chemistry experts are reporting the following: 375, 10, 1230. I would have to bump calc by 50, mag by 150-200ish to hit the levels I'd prefer. Understand, I'm not saying it won't work for you, but I would have to modify it too much when I can buy something for less and be closer to target.

[dja1980]

Switch from Expensive Salt to IO...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1836588

[yvr]

Loyalty to salt brands is always a contentious issue. But since we are on the topic, I have always been happy with Tropic Marin's products and they have produced some great results for me and other hobbyists I know who use them. I am currently using TM's Pro Reef and love it!

[tozzi]

Reg tm is great salt. Use to use it before i had so much sps. Cal n mag r a little low for in my reef. Not sure if they messed with this or just the tmp

[Hans-Werner]

Unfortunately it looks like they started to look into the issue, then just dropped the ball. Even worse than not even attempting IMO.


Hello,

I think what has to be said has been said at the first two pages of the thread. I have to repeat myself. The recipe has not been changed and if there was a change in the salt consistency caused by a change in the raw materials we try to change it back. The salt needs some weeks to get to the US by ship.
To check the production date we need the batch numbers but we still do not get any e-mails on this problem. Why? Does it only take place in this forum?
Please contact us via our homepage or e-mail to tropicmarin@tropic-marin.com.
If someone finds all values low I recommend to check the specific gravity/salinity with a second reliable method. If this would be true we would have to add more sodium chloride per batch which is not the case.

Regards

Hans-Werner

[tozzi]

Hello,

I think what has to be said has been said at the first two pages of the thread. I have to repeat myself. The recipe has not been changed and if there was a change in the salt consistency caused by a change in the raw materials we try to change it back. The salt needs some weeks to get to the US by ship.
To check the production date we need the batch numbers but we still do not get any e-mails on this problem. Why? Does it only take place in this forum?
Please contact us via our homepage or e-mail to tropicmarin@tropic-marin.com.
If someone finds all values low I recommend to check the specific gravity/salinity with a second reliable method. If this would be true we would have to add more sodium chloride per batch which is not the case.

Regards

Hans-Werner


Why not recall all the bad buckets and tell all the stores to send them back? Just like when a food is bad in a grocery store, or like marineland did with their heaters?

[Hans-Werner]

We already have done this. We have taken back all hardened buckets that have been found in stores or that the store owners have been aware of.
I think I have already mentioned that we of course exchange all hardened buckets that customers have bought.

Hans-Werner

[Kahuna]

Hans is right - TM did recall all of the hardened salt. However, I've been told by several distributors that it was due to an alk issue related to the hardening salt. I have a glass container of TMRP salt that was in a batch that was not hardened. I no longer have the lid because I use the TMRP bucket to store water change gear in, or I would gladly send in the lid. I can tell Hans when and where it was purchased and perhaps he can determine the batch that way. I'm not going to post the info here because I don't want to start something that can't be backed up with facts. I dealt with my issue and blame nobody but myself, as I bought those buckets at half price from an LFS knowing that they had been recalled for the hardness issue, and figured that the brick consistency wouldn't hurt the chemistry; I was wrong because of the alk issue. The LFS was never told about that, or I would've never bought them.

Anyway, I mixed up one gallon of RO and the last of this NON-HARDENED TMRP salt to create a gallon of salt water at SpGr 1.025. I tossed the tablespoon or so of leftover salt in the garbage.

It came in at the following after 1 hour with an airstone and being agitated with a small picojet pump:

pH - 8.1 @ 78 deg F
SpGr -1.025
nitrates, nitirites, ammonia, phosphate - 0
alk - 6.74 DKh
Ca - 390
Mg - 1290

I've moved on - all of my issues were with the buckets that were hardened and I fought chemistry issues constantly. I sold the 5 remaining buckets to a local FOWLR hobbyist with the issue explained for $20 a bucket.

Because the TMRP salt is hard to get here where I live, I've switched brands, my tank has recovered, and my SPS is finally taking off. I'm willing to cut TM some slack and I may return to it in time. Right now, I can't.

[pmrossetti]

may we ask what you switched to?

[slow_leak]

I have used up 3 buckets of the hard stuff. Original response was material was hardened from hot storage conditions in Atlanta, Ga.

I saw no problems on 180 total gallons with 10-15% water changes every other week. May we ask what your total water volume was and percentage and frequency of water changes that effected corals?

Also what did you use for calcium and alkalinity?

I will continue to use TM. I now get sack that holds 300 gallons.

[Kahuna]

I have used up 3 buckets of the hard stuff. Original response was material was hardened from hot storage conditions in Atlanta, Ga.

I saw no problems on 180 total gallons with 10-15% water changes every other week. May we ask what your total water volume was and percentage and frequency of water changes that effected corals?

Also what did you use for calcium and alkalinity?

I will continue to use TM. I now get sack that holds 300 gallons.

First, finding this thread is what allowed me to fix my tank issues as they related to alk and Ca swings. I'm sure that TM does make an excellent product and this is just one of those things.

I switched to Red Sea Coral Pro. That doesn't mean it's better than anyone else's product, just that it is REALLY working for me. Some of our locals here are using ESV and Brightwell and reporting great results as well.

Having said that, moisture was the cause of the caking according to what the LFS's were told here. Not sure how hot, dry storage would cause a dry product to cake.

Yes, you may ask. I was changing 30 gallons out at a time every 3-4 weeks on a 110 gal system. I use Randy Holmes Farley's 2-part with magnesium recipe #2.

[tozzi]

Not sure how hot, dry storage would cause a dry product to cake.



Easy, It wouldnt. I could see if the lids werent sealing allowing moisture and it hardened. How hot could it of been in storage that time of the year? Exactly, its not, and besides i really dont think heat would b an issue. Buckets r sealed. I have used tmp for a long time and reg tm for even longer. After reading much of this thread, my conclusion is simply poor quality control. They should test their batches more often, and get recalls out way faster,make more people aware of it before it goes in their tank.

[Hans-Werner]

Exactly, its not, and besides i really dont think heat would b an issue. Buckets r sealed.

Last summer wasn´t hot in the Southern US? You know how hot it gets in an dark brown oversea container? You know when we have recalled the buckets?

Regarding hardening you maybe should ask a chemist what heat causes to hydrated salts. Only some of the salts in a marine salt mix are anhydrous, most components are hydrated salts. Hydrated salts melt when they are heated over a specific melting point, calcium chloride tetrahydrate for example melts at 35°C. It is sufficient when only one of the main components melts to solidify the complete salt mix.

Hans-Werner

[Rosti]

Hi Hans-Werner, I have being using TM Pro and Bioactiv for year now without any problems. I have two buckets of TM Pro hard as a brick, what should I do with it and are there any problems continue using it?

[AndyH5512]

Last summer wasn´t hot in the Southern US? You know how hot it gets in an dark brown oversea container? You know when we have recalled the buckets?

Regarding hardening you maybe should ask a chemist what heat causes to hydrated salts. Only some of the salts in a marine salt mix are anhydrous, most components are hydrated salts. Hydrated salts melt when they are heated over a specific melting point, calcium chloride tetrahydrate for example melts at 35°C. It is sufficient when only one of the main components melts to solidify the complete salt mix.

Hans-Werner

Maybe they should ask a chemist? Isn't that what Tropic Marin is supposed to have or should have on staff to make sure the salt mix is proper? That sounds like you are flaming those who are having issues with TM salt. I enjoy this hobby, and do not need to involve a chemist to know your levels are way out of whack. In addition, I got tired of paying nearly twice as much for TM salt and still having to supplement it. Going with another brand was a no brainer. Perhaps you need to ask a qualified public relations company how you can save the money that is being lost due to this incident. I know I wont be using TM anymore.

[Hans-Werner]

Hi Rosti,

We have still no complaint or any conversation about problems outside this forum. Everything we know about possible damages we know from this forum and it is not much.
If you suspect that the hardened salt will do no good to your tank we recommend to exchange it to get a new sound one. You can exchange it either at the store where you bought it or contact Lou Ekus office@tropicmarin-usa.com .

Hans-Werner

P. S.: Andy, we have a chemist. No chemist will tell you exactly what might happen to a mixture of dozends of salts when doing minor changes.

[Rosti]

Hi Hans-Werner,

I don't have or seeing ANY problems with this(TM Pro) salt, I perform small daily WC's (2%), alternating between TM Pro and Bioactiv. My last two buckets are rock hard. I was just asking your opinion if there is a problem continue using it or exchange it. I personally don't see any problems.

[Hans-Werner]

Hi Rosti,

as you see I am hesitating a bit.
If you feel somehow uncomfortable with the hardened salt, maybe because it is difficult to get pieces of the right size for the watervolumes you prepare or whatever, do not hesitate to exchange the salt.
Only if you say, it is more work for you to prepare the salt and contact our US office or your store then use the salt.
We are very sorry that hardened salt from us got into the shops and was bought. We understand that it is inconvenient for you anyway and we want you to go the way that is most convenient for you now.

Hans-Werner

[Cozmo4]

For what it's worth, I've been using Tropic Marin Pro almost exclusively for two years on my 185g and for 4 months on my newer 210. I've had no issues with hardened salt, inconsistent element measurements etc. So, while this thread seems to be "the place" to communicate issues, surely there are many of us that have used and continue to use Tropic Marin salt with great satisfaction.

[njudson]

I have used a whole bucket of rock hard Bio Activ over the last few months with no ill effects. really like the salt actually

[Captainfester]

red sea coral pro. only way to go. my lfs reps kent salt. i used it once when i was short on red sea. not bad stuff but i prefer the Red sea any day

[Rosti]

Hi Rosti,

as you see I am hesitating a bit.
If you feel somehow uncomfortable with the hardened salt, maybe because it is difficult to get pieces of the right size for the watervolumes you prepare or whatever, do not hesitate to exchange the salt.
Only if you say, it is more work for you to prepare the salt and contact our US office or your store then use the salt.
We are very sorry that hardened salt from us got into the shops and was bought. We understand that it is inconvenient for you anyway and we want you to go the way that is most convenient for you now.

Hans-Werner

Thank you Sir, i will continue using it

[dieselkeeper]

I lost some SPS colonies due to TMP salt. I too was an avid user of the Pro salt. It always mixed at the right parameters. I used Pro for years, never testing a new batch much less a new bucket because I thought the parameters was where they was when I first starting using Pro. I didn't test my tank water also because it was always right on the money. When I noticed things going down hill, it was traced to the salt testing with alk of 5.2. I never got a bucket with harden salt. It's taking me 6 months to get my tank back to where it was with new growth. I will never use tropic marin salt again. I blame myself for not testing my water like I should have.

[Perrier01]

There were a problem with this salt around last year ago in Southern California.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2010390

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1942271

[carloschali]

I lost some SPS colonies due to TMP salt. I too was an avid user of the Pro salt. It always mixed at the right parameters. I used Pro for years, never testing a new batch much less a new bucket because I thought the parameters was where they was when I first starting using Pro. I didn't test my tank water also because it was always right on the money. When I noticed things going down hill, it was traced to the salt testing with alk of 5.2. I never got a bucket with harden salt. It's taking me 6 months to get my tank back to where it was with new growth. I will never use tropic marin salt again. I blame myself for not testing my water like I should have.

If you have (or had) sps, you will know that they are difficult to keep and consume lots of calcium and alkalinity. Having said that, why would you not test? I cannot expect that regular water changes alone will keep my calcium and alk at the levels I want them to be, with the number of sps colonies I have and their growth rates, which also fluctuate. I am not convinced that low alkalinity levels in a 10% weekly water changes can make you lose sps corals. IMHO, there were some other issues here. DISLCAIMER: I don't know anybody in TM, I use their salt through my LFS which sells me salt water using TM and my corals are doing very well.

[yvr]

For what it's worth, I've been using Tropic Marin Pro almost exclusively for two years on my 185g and for 4 months on my newer 210. I've had no issues with hardened salt, inconsistent element measurements etc. So, while this thread seems to be "the place" to communicate issues, surely there are many of us that have used and continue to use Tropic Marin salt with great satisfaction.



Loyalty to salt brands is always a contentious issue. But since we are on the topic, I have always been happy with Tropic Marin's products and they have produced some great results for me and other hobbyists I know who use them. I have tried many other brands over the past 15 years and I always come back to Tropic Marin's stuff.

[slow_leak]

I think Hans Werner addressed the issue here

Last summer wasn´t hot in the Southern US? You know how hot it gets in an dark brown oversea container? You know when we have recalled the buckets?

Regarding hardening you maybe should ask a chemist what heat causes to hydrated salts. Only some of the salts in a marine salt mix are anhydrous, most components are hydrated salts. Hydrated salts melt when they are heated over a specific melting point, calcium chloride tetrahydrate for example melts at 35°C. It is sufficient when only one of the main components melts to solidify the complete salt mix.

Hans-Werner

The follow up may be proprietary but I suspect the root issue was a supplier change of calcium chloride that claimed higher purity, and was further dehydrated prior to mixinging. When it partially melted, it became hydroscopic and recrystalized making a solid form. This material was slower to dissolve and also may not have been fully dissolved when test. Also material had chalk at bottom. This was likely calcium carbonate that settled out.

I believe Hans is implying material that did not get shipped remained granular, but may be over interpretting his comments.