LED VS 250 MH-- the test.

[Saldebo]

So I have always heard LED companies claim that their fixtures are the same as 250 mh. I also hear that in LEDs growth is the same or much better then the Metal halide. Well now that I have both fixtures I wanted to put this to the test for myself. What I want to see is if LEDs are the same or better then MH.

I am going to place same size frags of a soft coral and a hard coral and see what the difference in growth will be. I will check and ensure that the water conditions are virtually the same. Both tanks have skimmers and sumps with algae in the refugium. Both have wave makers, auto-top-offs, and are the same age. I use the same RO/DI filter and make my own water, making weekly water changes. I am using Tropical Marin Salt and have the salinity at 0.025. pH is 8.4 in both tanks, temperatures are virtually the same and consistent at 75.9 in tank A and 76.2 in tank B.

The lights are 6 inches from the top of the water and 12 inches from the base of the rock I will be placing my frags on. Tank A is using 2-250w 15K MH and 4 power-combat 65w actinic. Tank B is using an EcoRay 60 LED light. Light schedules are the same.

My goal is to test which light is better. I will post weekly updates with pics and water perimeters.

Any questions or concerns are welcome

[benjabba]

Nice idea. I am doing something similar but I have both fixtures o er the same tank. I don't have any solid data yet but things are growing and coloring up nicely. I will be following your thread.

[psuedopimp]

cool test. looking forward to pictures.

[reign]

WOULD like to see the results ..Im planning on doing DIY led's..please post specs of led fixture ma,watts(I know doesnt really matter), brand of led.optics :spread (degrees) etc.

Tagging along

[Gomer]

Just a forewarning from personal experience. LPS and softies did well for me under LED. SPS browned out, bleached and stayed the same depending on the species.

[puffin04]

I think it depends on the quality of the LED's and it seems to me the CREE is probably the best out there for now. I see alot of the cheaper fixtures for sell and usually they are just 1watters instead of 3 like the CREEs. Also believe it or not they are more efficient as well. Thanks

Steffen Sparks

[psychostieg]

I did the same test over the past two years..... When I got my Led light (60 Cree XR-E's 48" & 80 optics in 1:1 cool wht to RB ratio).... I attached a 70 gallon tank to my already running system that was loaded with corals under 250w DE MH's..... The corals had already been under MH's for 2 years so I was familiar with their growth and health in response to the MH's....... The main system was also powered by a reeflo hammerhead, so adding a second 70 gallon tank that circulated the same water was very easy. I took the same corals that I had for years sps/LPS &softies, and simply moved them over to the other tank that was LED.... Results were...
1. Pigmentation of all corals was mind-blowing!... I ha acros, milli's, frogspawn... And softies that when compared to the original colonies that were under MH.... You couldn't even tell they were the Sam coral... No exaggeration!.....
2.. Interestingly... When corals were placed closer to the LED light, their growth was unchanged or improved.... This is quite different to my experience with MH where corals closer to the lights looked stressed, bleached, or had algae growth as a result.
3.. The coolest thing I was able to do with LED's was to bring corals back from what you would think would be irreversible damage. I had friends bring damaged corals over all the time and they would regenerate over 2-6 months. I attribute this to the fact that LEDs do not give off UV radiation.... MH's do produce UV radiation, but on very small amounts when shielded properly. Even when shielded, I never really knew how much stress they caused corals in captivity until I ran the comparison. Under LED's, I was able to bring back completely bleached corals.. Acros, a magnificent anemone (bleached as snow!), monti's... Etc... These corals wouldve been shot if I had tried to bring them back under MH's.... I would nurse the corals back to health in a basket under the LED's... Once pigment reached a point where the corals/anemones could have a defense against UV light, I would move them into the tank under MH's since I had more space in the MH tank.......

In my opinion, LED's are incredible.... We are only beginning to understand which LED color combinations and photoperiods best benefit corals.... With the asset of a controller, you can imitate nature down to the smallest details..... The wallet is the only limitation. I am however disappointed when it comes to the retail availability of LED's..... Not only are they overpriced..... But they are behind the DIY and custom builds like I've never seen before with new technology. I've seen a swell of web sites offering parts instead of prebuilt lights like we've typically seen with MH's and T5's...... I think the key is to link up with a custom builder in your area and build a light that meets your demands...... Keep in mind that these bulb last 50,000 hours and 10 years!!.... Be very educated when you buy these lights like you would a car that you would spend 6 years paying off.... Why??.... Unlike MH's where you might change things out every 1-2 years.... Your LEDs will be part of your system for a decade or more!..... Make sure it's built with a capabilities, spectral range, power, and ambience that you can't exhaust...... Hook a great lED system up to a great controller and the light will do whatever you ask of it for a Long time!....... That's just my 2 cents..... I just sold everything off after running this experiment for 4 years..... With 2 kids now, I just wanted to use the $$ to hang with the kids instead of worrying about overflows in my basement........ Hope this helps those of you considering adding LED's to your current systems or those of you trying to set up a system right from the beginning.....

[Gomer]

Steffen, if that was directed at me, it was full Cree. I've built several setups over the years. The coral one was XR-E all around.

[puffin04]

Tony can you possibly post some pics or a write up? Where you using optics? What size of a tank did you have? Thanks

Steffen Sparks

[Gomer]

I have a write up somewhere, but the short version is

I've run with 80deg optics, no optics and a mix. I liked the mix best (center of the array was opticless...aided in a more uniform throw rather than a torch).

50:50 white and royal blue.
3 strings of 12 LEDs run up to 1 amp driven with meanwells and controlled by my APEX.
Was over a 40g (36x15x16H)

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b248/BeyondGomer/LED_Array/
image name for more info. Happy to answer any other questions. Right now the array is sitting in my garage :P

[puffin04]

Looks really Good! I have been thinking about stripping my 72'' Constellation and installing the Crees. I was going to use 70 or so on a 12 inch deep tank. What i like about them the most is the dimable feature. I know lots of people have no dim there down some. Did you decide to go back to metal halides? What bulbs are using? Thanks

Steffen Sparks

[Gomer]

Right now I am back to T5/MH.
The old tank was a 250 radium OR a 4x39watt TEK.
New tank is 2x24T5 AND 1x150 MH (mixed ATI and Phoenix MH)

I do like LEDs. I just didn't have good results with them with SPS. If I use them again in the future, I'll do a hybrid system with LED/T5 or LED/MH.

[benjabba]

The fixture I am running is 119W. It has 119 one watt LED's. So far it is looking good. Of course the the light to where my corals are is about 12". Steffen you should see that Stylo coloring up already.

[jmait769]

Interesting! Great pics Gomer!! Ben - do you have any pics?

Jay

[benjabba]

Interesting! Great pics Gomer!! Ben - do you have any pics?

Jay

Its hard to get good pictures because its a 20K look. The pictures I take come out very blue. I will see what I can do this weekend.

[jmait769]

Its hard to get good pictures because its a 20K look. The pictures I take come out very blue. I will see what I can do this weekend.No, a pic of the fixture itself. :) I can never get a true pic of my tank either!

Jay

[benjabba]

Here are a few pics I took over the weekend with my phone:

Top of the fixture.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd28/benjabba/led3.jpg

Bottom of the fixture.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd28/benjabba/led2.jpg

Tank with only the blues on.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd28/benjabba/led1.jpg

[RCERNA280]

How has it been since the test?

[strayvoltage]

Seems like a really good test but I think the only true way to know is to have the lights and only the lights be the only factor in the test that is different.
:wave:

[RCERNA280]

I been fortunate enough to have rapidLED just around the corner from my place (10min away). So today I picked up the heatsink and fans today and hopefully by next week I can get the LEDs, I thought I'd go back and see how others are doing with theirs.

[psuedopimp]

I will post weekly updates with pics and water perimeters.

it has been a month and a half. i am interested to see if you have noticed a difference.

also interested in weekly pics if you have them. time lasps would be cool

[pnavarro170]

This was started a year ago. Not what your thinking now.

[psuedopimp]

no wonder i had forgotten it! i just looked at the first two numbers of the date LOL! the time lapse photo should be great!