Ok..

[stangd1909]

Tank is fully cycled and ready to go. Took 5 weeks and everything is perfect now. I am getting my first fish tomorrow....should I start out with the Dragon eel, or the Lion fish?

[stangd1909]

Ok got my first fish... Got a dog face puffer. He is pretty cool, although he is just sitting on the rocks right now. Nerves I guess...

[akdylpcikles]

So do you still want a lion? Puffers and lions Arnt compatible. Also if this is the tank in your signature (92 gallons) then it's to small for the puffer.

[cakemanPA]

The puffer will outgrow that tank in a hurry. Plus you will need to be careful about what you put in with it. I thought that you were going to wait until tomorrow to get your first fish and it was going to be an eel or a lion? Patience man... Patience

[geaux xman]

how big did you get it?

[stangd1909]

Lion fish is hold right now. The puffer is small, but not worried about the tank being to small, I'm upgrading next year. He is the only fish I have, I will add another fish in two weeks... Not sure what yet.

[stangd1909]

The puffer will outgrow that tank in a hurry. Plus you will need to be careful about what you put in with it. I thought that you were going to wait until tomorrow to get your first fish and it was going to be an eel or a lion? Patience man... Patience


I'm being patience lol, I saw this puffer and fell in love. He is a cool little guy...

[stangd1909]

What are good tank mates for a puffer?

[LisaD]

Dogface puffers are my favorite.

So do you still want a lion? Puffers and lions Arnt compatible. Also if this is the tank in your signature (92 gallons) then it's to small for the puffer.

1. IME, dogface puffers are among the least aggressive puffers, and may be compatible with a lionfish. Individuals can vary, however.
2. IME, dogface puffers grow slowly. I bought a 6-7" puffer from LA DD (it's a rare color morph, gold dalmation dogface - don't know if that affects growth). I've had it for over two years. It eats like crazy, is active and fat, but still isn't over 7-8" at most, total length. It doesn't seem to have grown much at all. They are supposed to max out at 13 inches, but I don't know if I've ever seen one that big.
3. Lionfish - if you get a lionfish, don't get a volitans, they need a larger tank than you have. Get a dwarf or medium sized lionfish. Frank Marini wrote a great article on lionfish, it is stickied near the top of the forum. You could have a pair (M/F only) of dwarf fuzzy lions. In your tank, I'd stay with dwarf species that stay under 7 inches. Don't get a Fu Manchu, too small and passive for a puffer/maybe eel tank.
4. +1 on the take it slow advice.
5. You are tempting fate if you don't have a QT. Trust me on this. I learned this the hard way.

Dogface puffer tankmates - other puffers may be more aggressive

Depends on tank size - what will you upgrade to?

I have had dog face puffers with the following at different times (over the last 25 years):

green wolf eel blenny
marine betta
scorpionfish
emperor angelfish
niger triggerfish
zebra moray
tangs
dwarf lionfish
tangs
black tip grouper
rabbitfish
harlequin tuskfish
soapfish

No trouble with any of these tankmates. Not all of these are suitable to your tank. Most have been in a 210. Wait until you upgrade before you buy anything else that gets over 5-7 inches adult size.

I have had problems with a porcupine puffer bullying, and possibly killling, a dogface puffer (gave the porc away). It also bullied a harlequin tuskfish. I don't keep porcs any more.
I also had a Brazilian dragon moray ambush and drag my gold dalmation dogface puffer into the rocks. It scared the crap out of me to see it! I put the puffer in a different tank permanently. Funny, the eel doesn't bother rabbitfish, angels, grouper or zebra moray. Just dogface puffers (it didn't bother the porc).

This is my experience ONLY. Others may have a different take:
To sum it up, dogface puffers, IMO, are very mellow and while they are food aggressive (can outcompete weak swimmers, passive fish, for food) they are not likely to "go after" other fish. IME they are slow growers, but you need to plan for them eventually getting to 10+ inches. This is a massive, messy fish, since puffers are so thick.

[stangd1909]

Dogface puffers are my favorite.



1. IME, dogface puffers are among the least aggressive puffers, and may be compatible with a lionfish. Individuals can vary, however.
2. IME, dogface puffers grow slowly. I bought a 6-7" puffer from LA DD (it's a rare color morph, gold dalmation dogface - don't know if that affects growth). I've had it for over two years. It eats like crazy, is active and fat, but still isn't over 7-8" at most, total length. It doesn't seem to have grown much at all. They are supposed to max out at 13 inches, but I don't know if I've ever seen one that big.
3. Lionfish - if you get a lionfish, don't get a volitans, they need a larger tank than you have. Get a dwarf or medium sized lionfish. Frank Marini wrote a great article on lionfish, it is stickied near the top of the forum. You could have a pair (M/F only) of dwarf fuzzy lions. In your tank, I'd stay with dwarf species that stay under 7 inches. Don't get a Fu Manchu, too small and passive for a puffer/maybe eel tank.
4. +1 on the take it slow advice.
5. You are tempting fate if you don't have a QT. Trust me on this. I learned this the hard way.

Dogface puffer tankmates - other puffers may be more aggressive

Depends on tank size - what will you upgrade to?

I have had dog face puffers with the following at different times (over the last 25 years):

green wolf eel blenny
marine betta
scorpionfish
emperor angelfish
niger triggerfish
zebra moray
tangs
dwarf lionfish
tangs
black tip grouper
rabbitfish
harlequin tuskfish
soapfish

No trouble with any of these tankmates. Not all of these are suitable to your tank. Most have been in a 210. Wait until you upgrade before you buy anything else that gets over 5-7 inches adult size.

I have had problems with a porcupine puffer bullying, and possibly killling, a dogface puffer (gave the porc away). It also bullied a harlequin tuskfish. I don't keep porcs any more.
I also had a Brazilian dragon moray ambush and drag my gold dalmation dogface puffer into the rocks. It scared the crap out of me to see it! I put the puffer in a different tank permanently. Funny, the eel doesn't bother rabbitfish, angels, grouper or zebra moray. Just dogface puffers (it didn't bother the porc).

This is my experience ONLY. Others may have a different take:
To sum it up, dogface puffers, IMO, are very mellow and while they are food aggressive (can outcompete weak swimmers, passive fish, for food) they are not likely to "go after" other fish. IME they are slow growers, but you need to plan for them eventually getting to 10+ inches. This is a massive, messy fish, since puffers are so thick.



First off thanks a lot for the response. :beer:

I will be upgrading to a 250 Gallon + tank. It's looking like a 300 gallon.


I have been to every LFS around me (7) for the past 3 week looking at, and researching the fish I want. At first I was dead set on the Lion fish, but after I found this little guy, I just couldn't refuse. All the LFS said there would be no problem with mixing the this puffer and Lion. I really don't have any idea at this point what other fish I will be adding. I will just keep looking until I find something I want. I am in no rush LOL. Thanks a lot for the list of tank mates, there are a lot on the list that I like.

[stangd1909]

When I first put him in


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/stangd1909/Fish%20tank/95f2c5c1.jpg




swimming around


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/stangd1909/Fish%20tank/7bdd316a.jpg



saying HI



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/stangd1909/Fish%20tank/e84314ae.jpg

[aquamanpc24]

Puffers looking good. It sounds like you are giving him good home. I fell in love with my porsc puffer, and he currently in a 135 but will totally upgrade when the time comes. So far he is under 5". Puffers IME grow really slow, and the people on this forum love to jump the gun and flame about your tank is to small, I know their heart is in the right place and I also know there are people who will cramp their fish, but most of them dont care about fish enough to be on forums talking about fish IMO so I am happy to say your tank is perfectly capable of keeping him happy now with proper filtration. It sounds like his next home will be huge too!
QT are a nice element to insure his happiness and health for any new tankmates. Love the pics!

[rssjsb]

Uh, that's a nice puffer, but it's not a dogface. I think it's a stars and stripes. They get huge.

[stangd1909]

Uh, that's a nice puffer, but it's not a dogface. I think it's a stars and stripes. They get huge.



Really? The LFS said it was a dog face. I paid $100 for him.

[stangd1909]

Puffers looking good. It sounds like you are giving him good home. I fell in love with my porsc puffer, and he currently in a 135 but will totally upgrade when the time comes. So far he is under 5". Puffers IME grow really slow, and the people on this forum love to jump the gun and flame about your tank is to small, I know their heart is in the right place and I also know there are people who will cramp their fish, but most of them dont care about fish enough to be on forums talking about fish IMO so I am happy to say your tank is perfectly capable of keeping him happy now with proper filtration. It sounds like his next home will be huge too!
QT are a nice element to insure his happiness and health for any new tankmates. Love the pics!



Thanks a lot. I care a lot about my fish, they are my pets lol. I wanna make sure that they are comfortable and happy. I think he will be fine in this tank until I upgrade. As for people jumping the gun, I understand, and I don't take anything personal. Thanks a lot for the response.

[Sonicblast12]

Definitely stars and stripes. Extremely cool fish, but will be a lot happier in that 300.

[rssjsb]

Definitely not a dogface. Actually, I said stars-and-stripes, but it looks more like a reticulated puffer: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Reticularis/

Either way, that fish will get really big.

Contrast this with dogface puffers: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Nigropunctatus/

[stangd1909]

Definitely not a dogface. Actually, I said stars-and-stripes, but it looks more like a reticulated puffer: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Reticularis/

Either way, that fish will get really big.

Contrast this with dogface puffers: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Nigropunctatus/



Thanks for the info, I will go back to my LFS and see what he is on Tuesday.

He told me he was a dog face puffer from Australia.

[rssjsb]

In the meantime, you should look around on the web. Check out wetwebmedia.com and the puffer forum (linked in my post above). Not to tals smack about your LFS, but I wouldn't really rely on them. This is clearly not the fish they told you it was.

I'm not saying you shouldn't keep the fish, but if you do, you may need to upgrade sooner than you had planned.

[stangd1909]

Here is a little video, maybe someone can confirm exactly what it is.




http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/stangd1909/?action=view&current=54b6e80f.mp4

[stangd1909]

In the meantime, you should look around on the web. Check out wetwebmedia.com and the puffer forum (linked in my post above). Not to tals smack about your LFS, but I wouldn't really rely on them. This is clearly not the fish they told you it was.

I'm not saying you shouldn't keep the fish, but if you do, you may need to upgrade sooner than you had planned.


Yup, starting the research tonight. Thanks a lot for your help.

[samdaman]

Looks like a Stars And Stripes to me

[LisaD]

Looks like a stars and stripes to me too. You will definitely need that upgrade, in time. These are awesome fish, very nice. However, I haven't kept one, so can't vouch for their temperament.

Check out this link, good site for species research. Sizes are generally accurate. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm

Scientific name of stars and stripes puffer is Arothron hispidus, they get 20 inches! Scientific name of dogface puffer is Arothron nigropunctatus, they max out at 13".

One rule I have for myself - never believe information from a pet store until I verify with someone not trying to make a sale.

BTW, the going price for dogface and stars and stripes puffers is generally from about $25-50. IMO $100 was too much, and they gave you inaccurate information, causing you to buy a fish that will for sure outgrow your tank.

If you like the puffer, I'd keep it, but push them hard for at least $50 store credit. Here are some reputable online vendors - they are not the cheapest and they have a two week guarantee. Even if you add $35 shipping, the price for a medium dogface OR stars and stripes is still well under $100. And most people buy more than one fish for the flat shipping rate or split and order for someone, so actual shipping cost is usually less, and generally no sales tax.

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=328&cid=22 dogface puffer, $37-45 for small and medium

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=306&cid=22 stars and stripes puffer, $25-35 for small and medium

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=732 dogface puffer, $50 for medium

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=682 stars and stripes puffer, 2-4", $50

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+39+222&pcatid=222 common dogface puffer (Indonesia, not Solomon Islands) $35-50 for small and medium

Liveaquaria doesn't have stars and stripes in stock, but you get the idea:

1) Neither dogface nor stars and stripes puffers generally sell for $100 unless they are rare color morphs or show size

2) These are different species with different tank requirements

I'd definitely talk to the LFS about this. A lot of them take the attitude "caveat emptor". But I'd say in this economy, that would be a bad idea... They had a lot of mark-up in that fish. They should be willing to offer you store credit of at least $50 if you want to keep it. If you don't want to keep it, they should let you return it for a full refund, since it will outgrow your tank (and with this species, I think pretty quickly). A 20" fish is even big for a 300 gallon tank!

For pictures and more information on stars and stripes puffers, do a search for stars and stripes puffer for usernames Snausy and Justinreef. Here's two to get you started:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1518027&highlight=stars+and+stripes+puffer
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1515740&highlight=stars+stripes+puffer

PS DON'T RELY ON THE LFS FOR ACCURATE INFORMATION!! If they happen to give you accurate information, great. But ALWAYS verify! I don't see how anyone knowledgeable about saltwater fish could mix up your puffer with a dogface puffer. And saying it's from Australia??? I believe stars and stripes puffers, dogface puffers and reticulated puffers are all pretty much Indo-Pacific fish (with stars and stripes having a wider range). I wouldn't call any of those Australian. I am pretty sure yours is a very nice stars and stripes puffer.

[StayPuft]

Definitely a Stars & Stripes puffer.

One thing to keep in mind, a lot of LFS will not tell you the truth. They're in the business of selling fish and they will rarely tell you not to buy a fish because the tank is small or that it's not compatible with other fish you have. It is better to do your own research online before you buy the fish. Don't rely on the LFS for advice.

[stangd1909]

Definitely a Stars & Stripes puffer.

One thing to keep in mind, a lot of LFS will not tell you the truth. They're in the business of selling fish and they will rarely tell you not to buy a fish because the tank is small or that it's not compatible with other fish you have. It is better to do your own research online before you buy the fish. Don't rely on the LFS for advice.


I agree, I broke my own rule. I didn't think the LFS would BS me though. I was asking about a few other fish (more expensive) and they said they wouldn't work. The LFS is closed Sun and Tue, so I will get some answers on Tuesday.

[stangd1909]

Looks like a stars and stripes to me too. You will definitely need that upgrade, in time. These are awesome fish, very nice. However, I haven't kept one, so can't vouch for their temperament.

Check out this link, good site for species research. Sizes are generally accurate. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm

Scientific name of stars and stripes puffer is Arothron hispidus, they get 20 inches! Scientific name of dogface puffer is Arothron nigropunctatus, they max out at 13".

One rule I have for myself - never believe information from a pet store until I verify with someone not trying to make a sale.

BTW, the going price for dogface and stars and stripes puffers is generally from about $25-50. IMO $100 was too much, and they gave you inaccurate information, causing you to buy a fish that will for sure outgrow your tank.

If you like the puffer, I'd keep it, but push them hard for at least $50 store credit. Here are some reputable online vendors - they are not the cheapest and they have a two week guarantee. Even if you add $35 shipping, the price for a medium dogface OR stars and stripes is still well under $100. And most people buy more than one fish for the flat shipping rate or split and order for someone, so actual shipping cost is usually less, and generally no sales tax.

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=328&cid=22 dogface puffer, $37-45 for small and medium

http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=306&cid=22 stars and stripes puffer, $25-35 for small and medium

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=732 dogface puffer, $50 for medium

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_43&products_id=682 stars and stripes puffer, 2-4", $50

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+39+222&pcatid=222 common dogface puffer (Indonesia, not Solomon Islands) $35-50 for small and medium

Liveaquaria doesn't have stars and stripes in stock, but you get the idea:

1) Neither dogface nor stars and stripes puffers generally sell for $100 unless they are rare color morphs or show size

2) These are different species with different tank requirements

I'd definitely talk to the LFS about this. A lot of them take the attitude "caveat emptor". But I'd say in this economy, that would be a bad idea... They had a lot of mark-up in that fish. They should be willing to offer you store credit of at least $50 if you want to keep it. If you don't want to keep it, they should let you return it for a full refund, since it will outgrow your tank (and with this species, I think pretty quickly). A 20" fish is even big for a 300 gallon tank!

For pictures and more information on stars and stripes puffers, do a search for stars and stripes puffer for usernames Snausy and Justinreef. Here's two to get you started:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1518027&highlight=stars+and+stripes+puffer
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1515740&highlight=stars+stripes+puffer

PS DON'T RELY ON THE LFS FOR ACCURATE INFORMATION!! If they happen to give you accurate information, great. But ALWAYS verify! I don't see how anyone knowledgeable about saltwater fish could mix up your puffer with a dogface puffer. And saying it's from Australia??? I believe stars and stripes puffers, dogface puffers and reticulated puffers are all pretty much Indo-Pacific fish (with stars and stripes having a wider range). I wouldn't call any of those Australian. I am pretty sure yours is a very nice stars and stripes puffer.



Again thank you Lisa, you have been a huge help.

[stangd1909]

OK, just a little update for people that have been following. I have done a lot of researching and talking to people on the Puffer forums (thanks Lisa for the links) I guess $100 for a stars and strip his size (5 1/2 inches) is a good price. They said he will be fine in my tank for a while, he grows slow..... but I will need to upgrade in the future. I was told by some that have stars and stripes that Lion tank mates are fine, as long as the lion is bigger than the puffer. A couple of poster have Stars and stripes with Lions, no problems.

I was told I should only feed him every other day, seems like it wouldn't be enough...but they know what they are talking about I guess. Poster with puffers on here, how often do you feed yours?

[namxas]

FWIW, I think it's a S&S as well I kept one for awhile, but got rid of it because it got VERY nippy. My experience is exactly the opposite of Lisa's: my Diodon puffer was a model citizen, and it was indeed kept with a P. volitans (the lion was established first). I tend to think that Diodon sp. are LESS nippy because they're fused teeth are flatter and used for crushing shelled prey as opposed to the beaklike teeth of the Arothron, but this is based on my limited experience with a single specimen of each genus.

Also, many folks simply lump all Arothron sp. into the "dogface" category because altho they don't share the DF's coloration, they have the same "snout".

And PLEASE...heed the previous advice and slow down. Patience is everything in this hobby. Do your research before you acquire any unfamiliar specimens and you won't be sorry.

HTH

[LisaD]

I feed my fish every day for the most part, sometimes I skip a day. Every other day is probably enough, but puffers love food more than anything. If you go to some public aquariums, where they feed a lot of food to big tanks of many fish, you'll see some puffers that look like softballs or basketballs with fins. They will outcompete fish 20X their size for food. They are gluttons! It will be easier on your filtration system to feed every other day, but it's up to you. Though I feed daily, I try not to feed heavily.

I think a lionfish is going to be a risk with any puffer. You need to have a plan in case it doesn't work out. I mentioned a dogface as the mellowest (speaking only from my limited experience) but that doesn't mean there isn't a chance of nipping or aggression from any puffer. Greg (namxas) has a lot of fish experience - he is a good one to listen to, especially where lionfish and scorpionfish are concerned. Greg, his wife Renee (seahorsedreams) and Frank Marini (FMarini) are the most expert people I know on these species.

BTW, you mentioned a dragon moray earlier - do you mean a Hawaiian or Japanese dragon moray or a Brazilian dragon moray? All of those, IMO, will be too big for your tank. Also, I have a BDM, and it is a known puffer eater.

One more thing - before adding any more fish, I suggest you think carefully about the final number and species of this for this tank. Compatibility is a huge challenge in marine aquarium keeping. Adding fish in the right order can be important. I'd also refrain from getting any more fish that will outgrow the tank until you actually have your bigger tank up and running. Good luck!

[stangd1909]

I'm not going to add a Dragon, if I decide to add a Eel....it will be a snowflake. I will stick with feeding the puffer every other day for the time being. I had a little ammonia spike, so I wanna make sure I have that under control before I add anymore fish. So it might my a few weeks before I do add another fish. The max number of fish I will be adding is 3, no more than that. So a puffer, eel and something else. I am in the process of working out a deal for a new tank, they have a 200 and a 300...so I hope it works out.

[LisaD]

Good luck. Tanks are addictive. My 210 got small fast!

[SkullV]

Had a stars and stripes (paid $60 for him). He developed a taste for Maroon Clownfish Fins...gave him away to a guy with a 300g FOWLR. I also would absolutely not recommend this fish with a lion. They eat EVERYTHING and most of the time LOVE lionfish spines.

[stangd1909]

He's not to big for my tank yet, but he will be soon. I am looking for a new tank, I wouldn't get anything under 200 gallons. I'm still really ****ed that the LFS said he would be fine for my tank. lessons learned I guess....